1980 TA, engine upgrade from 301 to 461 (resurrected)

[5th T/A]

Good evening,

It has been les than two weeks since TAC got a new server and software. Thanks to MR bandit and others TAC seems to be stable now. In my mind, I didn't know how much I really appreciated and missed TAC until it was no longer available. While we suffered inconvenient system outages, its not the end of the world. We still have lots of very talented and knowledgeable members willing to share their skills and experience. It is not clear how much of the old post or content can or will be restored. I am encouraged by seeing more activity every day. With that said I will try to reconstruct my engine upgrade project.

[5th T/A]

I will start out by saying this is a project, not a restoration, really just an engine upgrade.
I purchased my 1980 Trans Am in early February of 2020. It has the normally aspirated 301 with a Turbo 350 transmission and a 2.41 axel ratio. The car is very clean, always stored indoors and had 6647 original miles when I purchased it. Since February I have replaced the original tires, replaced the radiator hoses, heater hoses, and replaced the fuel pump and rubber fuel hoses. I also replaced the rubber brake lines and flushed the brake fluid. Replaced a bad oil pressure sending unit and rebuilt the carb. I have put about 600 trouble free miles on the car. Currently I am very pleased with the cars looks, rides, and handles. I have a lot of history with these cars. Many decades ago I purchased a new 1973, 1975, 1978 and 1982 TA. While the 301 in my 1980 runs like a clock, the performance leaves much to be desired.
In May of 2020 I purchased a running 1974, 455, Y6 block with plans to do a rebuild with some mild performance upgrades and replace the 301 in my car. In July 2020, fellow TAC member “SPOON” (Chris) listed an engine he had built by Butler Performance in 2015. Unfortunately for Chris, other priorities got in the way and the engine sat. After talking with Chris and Butler Performance I decided this was the perfect engine for my car. It was probably over built, but with a very mild cam giving it good street manners and lots of torque. Chris and I worked out a very fair deal. What a great buying experience, Chris is a great guy to work with and went out of his way.
Because I had some cancer surgery in July, doctors would not let me lift more than ten pounds until September. Now I am ready to begin my project.
Engine is a 400, stroked to 461. Dyno results; 488.7 HP at 5000 RPM, 580.9 foot pounds torque at 3900 RPM. Runs on 91 octane pump gas. Has FAST EZ-EFI 2.0 fuel injection system. Ram Air Restorations manifolds with 2.5” collectors.
Things I know I will need to do,
Upgrade radiator, thinking Cold Case aluminum.
Upgrade the center support in the Turbo 350 transmission, also add a shift kit.
Weld the axel tubes on the differential. For the time being I will not change the axel ratio.
Add sub frame connectors from PTFB
I know the 301 accessory brackets will not work.

Anybody who has done this swap please share any suggestions or words of wisdom.

Larry

[5th T/A]

Here are a few pictures of the car before I started.

8250a by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr


8250k by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

8250d by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Last September I put the car up on stands with the intention of dismantling. The rocker panels were covered with undercoating. Using a heat gun to soften the undercoating and a scraper made out of a paint stirring stick I removed much of the undercoating. I then used mineral spirits on a rag to get the remainder off the rocker panel with out damaging the paint.

IMG_6493 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_6496 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

The entire car was heavily undercoated, I decided to go through the same process on the entire floor pan.

IMG_6582 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_6796 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr


IMG_6795 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_6810 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

It took several weeks of very messy and labor intensive work to get the entire floor pan cleaned up. The end result in this last photo. no sanding or painting, this is the original finish on the floor pan.

IMG_6820 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Next I removed and cleaned up the fuel tank. The tank also cleaned up very nicely. Unfortunately I didn't know at the time the fuel pump that came with my EFi system would not fit through the sending unit opening. I did not want to cut into the tank so I eventually purchased a new EFI ready tank.

IMG_6863 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_6865 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

The inside and out the tank looks like new. Since I cant use it, I will try and find someone looking for a very clean original tank.

This is the inside of my original tank.

IMG_6858 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

I re-installed the fuel tank and differential. I then removed the exhaust system, drive shaft, transmission and engine.

IMG_6953 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_6958 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_6961 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

At this point I could have started installing my new engine, but the subframe was also covered with undercoating. I figured its now or never. so I pulled the front spoiler, bumper and fenders. The fender on the left shows undercoating, the fender on the right has it removed.


IMG_7186 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

The subframe removed.

IMG_7060 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_7068 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

The subframe partially cleaned up.

IMG_7077 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Initially I had intended to paint the subframe myself, but with outside temperatures too cool, I ended up taking it to a powder coater I had used previously for old motorcycle frames. I have no regrets because it came out far better being powder coated.

IMG_7137 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

The subframe bolted up and my new engine installed. Steering gearbox, upper and lower control arms also installed.

IMG_7175 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_7176 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[737driver]

Looks great! Removing undercoating is a real pain, it is one of the most undesirable tasks to undertake. Having a clean sub frame really makes everything else look even better!
Jim

[roadking77]

x2.  My initial plan with my 79 was to through some parts together and get it running and on the road. I now regret not removing the subframe. I painted it in place.

[5th T/A]

Got the transmission cleaned up and installed. Once the car is back together and running well, I will pull the trans back out. I have plans to install a heavy duty center support / sprag assembly. I will likely have to play with the governor to raise the shift points to take advantage of my new engine. At the same time install a shift kit. The trans only has 7200 original miles and fluid is clean. So for the time being just a new pan gasket and fluid.

IMG_7179 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_7188 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Using the wire wheel on my bench grinder I cleaned up the calipers and rotors.


IMG_7246 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

 I used Eastwood high temp paint on the calipers. Used a clear finish on the non friction area of the rotors.

IMG_7249 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr


 While the original Delco pads (on the left) still had plenty of lining I replaced them with new.

IMG_7255 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[Jack]

Good progress, nice to start with a clean car.

[5th T/A]

I cleaned up the original steering linkage and front anti sway bar. Replaced the sway bar links with new Delco heavy duty from Rock Auto. Also replaced the the Sway bar bushings with new Delco. Installed heavy duty Delco front shocks, also from Rock Auto.

IMG_7398 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Jack,

I was very fortunate to find such a clean car. The stock 1980 TA with a normally aspirated 301 CI engine had the look but was lacking in the power department. I figured the car doesn't need to be rebuilt, just a power upgrade. It turned into more of a project than I anticipated. I am not complaining at all, I am really having a good time. Because of some health issues I was looking for something I could complete in months instead of years. Thank God I seem to be in good health for now!

[5th T/A]

I realized I never posted a picture of my new engine.

Initially I had planed to install a slightly warmed over 455. I ended up purchasing this engine from fellow TAC member Spoon. The engine is probably overkill for what I need, but should have good driving manners and reliability.

It's a 400 block, casting XX-481988, Ross forged pistons, Eagle 4340 forged H-beam rods, ARP main studs, Eagle forged 4.250" crank, Eagle crank Armor coating, Comp roller cam, Lunati roller lifters, Mellon oil pump, Scorpion roller rockers, IMI starter, Edlebrock D-port aluminum heads, Edlebrock Performer RPM intake, EZ-EFI 2.0 Fuel injection, FAST Dual-Sync distributor, FAST E6 digital CDI and Ram Air Restorations exhaust manifolds. Engine was built and dyno tested by Butler Performance.

IMG_6754 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

The alternator and power steering brackets would not carry over form my original 301. I ended up using 1974 brackets that came with a 455 engine I purchased last summer. I had the brackets powder coated. The original alternator on my 301 is a Delco 15SI with slightly larger bolt spacing than GM 10 and 12SI alternators used in earlier years. The 15SI alternator is rated at 70 amps max. Knowing the FAST EFI and CDI would put a heavier load on my charging system I chose an alternator upgrade. For now I will be using the engine driven clutch fan, but if I need to convert to electric cooling fans I wanted sufficient amperage at idle. I chose a Mechman alternator that was bench tested at a 146 amps at idle.

New Mechman alternator and original alternator, side by side.

IMG_7354 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

New alternator and power steering pump installed. I also replaced the stock balancer and water pump pulleys with billet aluminum from CVF.

IMG_7355 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

I had the core support powder coated, here is core support installed.

IMG_7395 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

I also purchased and installed a Cold Case aluminum radiator. It's a beautiful piece. Unfortunately once its installed you cant see much. Should do a great job keeping the engine cooled.

IMG_7417 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

AC condenser coil, horn bracket and front bumper support installed.

IMG_7450 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[Nexus]

That looks so nice!!

amazing detail!!

I love it

[5th T/A]

While most EFI manufacturers talk about how simple it is to install their product, to do it right can become a real project. There are several challenges, proper plumbing of the fuel system being one of the biggest. On second generation firebirds where the back half of the car is unibody, there is not a lot of extra room to play with. Our original fuel tanks were not designed for electric fuel pumps. While most EFI companies suggest using an in-tank pump, external pumps are an option, but the pump should be mounted bellow or close to the bottom of the tank. When originally built the fuel lines from the tank up to the mechanical pump use suction instead of 50 PSI pressure. If you decide to use steel hard lines as the factory did, you must upgrade the the connections to withstand the pressure. With EFI where the entire fuel line is pressurized, a fuel leak at 50 PSI has the potential of becoming a flame thrower.

There are multiple options. My FAST EFI system can run with an internal or external pump. It can run return-less (a single line run from the fuel pump to the throttle body). Or a full return system (One line from the fuel pump to the throttle body and a second line from the throttle body to a pressure regulator, from the regulator back to the tank. Almost every modern car uses an in tank pump with a full return system. FAST strongly recommends an in-tank pump and running a full return system.

The following are advantages of an in-tank pump; Pumps are much more efficient at pumping, rather than sucking. Pumps immersed in fuel run cooler and last longer. In-tank pumps are quieter.

The following are advantages of a full return system; Fuel pressure is more accurately regulated, this is critical for EFI systems. The fuel is constantly circulated from the tank up to the injectors, what is not used is pumped back into the tank, providing cooler fuel to the engine. Vapor lock or fuel percolation is eliminated.

While my original tank was in great shape, the sending unit opening was not large enough to accept the fuel pump. I didn't like the option of cutting into the tank and installing an access panel.

IMG_6866 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

On the advice of other TAC members I went with a new fuel tank from TANKS Inc. It is a quality built product with lots of advantages over the original fuel tank. Ironically TANKS was running about a month behind in manufacturing, I was able to get it in a couple days from Summit Racing and for $50.00 LESS.

I did have to purchase the in-tank hanger kit for my fuel pump. Fuel pump mounted, notice the sound insulating sleeve.

IMG_7647 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

One of the advantages of the TANKS fuel tank is a 4.7 liter sump fed by two 1/2" supply tubes. This keeps the pump immersed during hard acceleration and cornering. This picture is of pump mounted, looking through sending unit port.

IMG_7650 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

The tank also has additional baffling to keep fuel from sloshing.

IMG_7619 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

This is the top of the tank with pump and sending unit installed. There are actually two 5/16' inch vents on this tank. tied together with a Y fitting.

IMG_7674 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

New tank in foreground. It has a nice powder coat finish, but it is much easier to scratch than the original tank.

IMG_7680 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

My full return fuel system is finished.

My TA came from the factory with 3/8' supply lines. I wanted to use the steel lines because they tuck up close under the body. I cut the nipples off the end, changed the ends to a 45 degree reverse double flare, then used an adapter to -6AN connecters. I know I could have used a compression fitting to the -6AN, but I just don't like using compression fittings.

My factory return line is was only 1/4". I purchased a roll of 3/8" steel line and mimicked the bends of the factory return lines and bought some 3/8" steel spring to help protect the line.

The factory 1/4" return line on the right, The new 3/8" return line on the left, tied together with the vapor return/ vent line.

IMG_7873 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

New lines installed, thicker return line on the left.

IMG_7879 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr


Trying to copy all the bends was a challenge, but I am happy with the result and like it better than running rubber lines under the body. I ran the power line for my electric fuel pump through the body using the same path the factory used for the rear lighting (no photo).

IMG_7882 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_7883 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

My car has been sitting and in pieces since last September. With the fuel system finished, I finally got it running. I am trying to keep my car looking as close to stock as possible. I like the traverse muffler used on factory dual exhaust Firebirds 1970 -1974. The low performance dual exhaust cars used 2" pipes in front and 2 1/4" pipes in back. RAM AIR and HO cars used 2 1/4" pipes from the manifolds to the muffler. Super Duty cars used 2 1/2" pipes from the manifolds to the muffler. I ordered a 1974 Super Duty system and its giving me grief with fitment. It's a tight fit. For now the pipes are loosely installed without clamps. The bends on the pipes over the rear axel don't seem correct. the exhaust is noisy for now until its properly installed. Also the alternator output cable is temporary for now. I just wanted to get the engine running. I also have to get a bung welded on one of my exhaust pipes before the EFI will go into closed loop mode for self leaning. All in all I am a happy camper.

I have never posted video links, hope they work!

IMG_7888 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_7889 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

ECU mounted on core support, fuel pressure regulator mounted on fender.

IMG_7891 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

It almost looks like a road worthy car.

IMG_7890 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

[scarebird]

For comparison I found out in Rocky's book that the factory did not run 2-1/2" to the exhaust manifold - they used a 2-1/4" insert welded into the 2-1/2" pipes.  Hooking up my Pypes 2-1/2" exhaust to the RAIII manifold is a b***h and getting those nuts to turn - no doubt why the factory did this.  I am planning to order prebent 2-1/4" SS pipe from Summit and rework this: 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-622112



On my 71 Lemans I used high pressure fuel hose and simply bubbled the ends of the hardline then used fuel injection rated clamps - a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than AN fittings.  The TA has AN fitting and a Russell Push-Lok adapter let go and sprayed fuel all over, so I am not a huge fan of adapter fittings!

[roadking77]

Larry, I appreciate the words and encouragement you leave in my posts, I will throw them right back at ya!  Im more of a body type guy, not very mechanical but learning more every day. You and the others that do their own stuff amaze me. I will be doing fuel lines and new tank at the end of the month, I only hope it all turns out half as nice as your job. You made a comment on the cold case radiator not being seen, for me thats a good thing as I want my car to look as close to factory as possible. I need a new one and have thought about going with cold case but was concerned what it would look like. I think I will be safe.
Do you know where your car came from new?  I know in an effort to make a profit, Pontiac made more than 1 white trans am, but your car is identical to the car my cousin bought brand new when he was a senior in HS.  In 1982 I put a down payment on another, again identical to yours only to end up buying a 1982 Firebird. The colour combination of your car is my favorite for a trans am.

[5th T/A]

Scarebird,

Thanks for the heads up on Pontiac only using 2 1/4" flanges on Super Duty manifolds. I have Ram Air Restorations RM-2-OS manifolds and flanges. While I didn't measure them, RAR claims the outlet is 2.45". I was able to hook up the head pipes, although it was not easy. My problem is at the other end, the pipes that go over the differential and into the muffler. It seems like the radius of the bend is a little too big. I need to play with them more and hopefully make them fit well. If not I might have to go to a real muffler shop. I know there are a lot of exhaust options for gen II Firebirds. I am trying to stick with a stock look and sound if possible.

I also appreciate the warning on push-lock adapter. I am using a reverse double flare to AN adapter, both rated for very high pressure and they are already installed. I think I have been very cautious on my fuel system assembly. I have double checked everything is properly torqued, not flexing or rubbing and no leaks under pressure. I am seriously considering carrying a heavy duty fire extinguisher in the car.

As mentioned before, I love your Lemans convertible. It really looks great!

[5th T/A]

Kerry,

Regardless of my new engine, I am going for as much of a stock appearance as possible. I'm using original Pontiac accessory brackets, GM AC compressor and brackets. Much of the engine is covered up. Once the air cleaner and shaker are installed, it will look close to stock. Because the original engine has been removed I don't expect my car ever to be worth any serious money like your TATA or any of the earlier 70-74 TA's or Formulas. I am very fond of the white with blue accent color combination, same as my long gone 1973 and 1975 TA's.

Regarding a COLD Case aluminum radiator. If you will be using the stock fan and shroud on your car, the only part of the radiator that shows are the side tanks. I am pretty sure the installation instructions said it can be painted if you are looking for an OEM look. I purchased mine form Butler performance, at the time their price was the same as other suppliers, but they did not charge shipping or sales tax. It was actually shipped directly from Cold Case.

The window sticker on my 1980 TA said it was sold by Willis Motor Company, North Canton, Ohio. I beleive it was built in August of 1979.

[jonathonar89]

Beautiful work to say the least.  Good stuff!

[roadking77]

Thanks Larry,  Im heading to Carlisle at the end of the month. If I can squeeze my wallet any tighter I may look up coldcase. They usually have a pretty good display there. Be nice if they had a 'show special'.  In the old days it seemed like a lot of the vendors did so but anymore about the only savings is on shipping.
At the risk of sounding rude, I dont think 'end value' has any relevance. I believe you and I (and most of the guys on here) build their cars for their personal tastes and enjoyment. IF value is at play I would think you have added to yours way more than detracting. Hypothetically I would trade cars with you in a minute!
Keep up the good work, driving season is upon us!!

[5th T/A]

As mentioned before I purchased a complete 1974 Super Duty exhaust system and was having problems with the pipes that go over the rear axel and attach to the muffler. They were close but just wouldn't fit right. To get the car drivable I purchased two Walker 21548 Quiet-Flow mufflers. They have 2.5" inlet and outlets, would fit under the rear seat area and were reasonably priced.

Here are the mufflers mounted. Notice the Transverse muffler is still installed. I couldn't do anything for tail pipes other than the short tips I made.

IMG_7942 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

A picture from the side, I got the mufflers up close to the floor, no clearance problems.

IMG_7946 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

Since I don't have access to a welder and have terrible welding skill, I took the right head pipe to a muffler shop to weld in the bung for my O2 sensor. After almost eight months I was finally able to drive my car. The quiet flow mufflers without any tail pipes are pretty noisy, They have a lot of low base sound, not in a good way. At low RPM it sounds like I am riding in a UPS truck. I really wanted to go with a stock looking and sounding system. When the car is finished I plan to take it to an exhaust fabricator and have them make over the axel pipes that fit.

The last two days have been good. I drove about 30 miles yesterday and another 23 today. Other than the sound, the car drives well. I am very pleased with the performance. I still have the original 2.41 axel and figured it would have to be changed to at least a 3.08 or 3.23. Even with the 2.41 axel, punching it from a 10 or 20 MPH roll it just lights up the tires. I know wheel spin doesn't mean anything, but it is fun. If I ease into the accelerator I can get moving without much wheel spin and it seems to pull well.

Today I installed an Optima battery with both side posts and side terminals. This simplified connecting up my E-6 capacitive discharge and ECU. The manufacturer FAST insists they are connected directly to the battery. I have a jury rigged connection from my alternator to the battery. I need to make a up a 4AWG cable.

Here is a picture of the engine from the passenger side. I need to order a longer AC belt and charge the AC system. Before I do that I need to replace the front seal in the AC compressor as it has a slow leak. If the shaker was installed on the air cleaner, you can hardly see the engine and almost looks original.

IMG_7941 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

Here is a shot from the drivers side, more of the engine is visible. I cleaned up the original wiring spaghetti mess over the intake manifold.

IMG_7947 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

With help from a friend I hope to get the hood on this weekend.

[TATurbo]

That looks so bad-ass!  Very cool.

[5th T/A]

Got my hood on, but running into problems making the shaker fit. Looking for suggestions.

My understanding is the Performer RPM sits 1.25 inches higher than a stock Pontiac four barrel intake. My engine came with an aftermarket air cleaner base that should work with a Pontiac 400 shaker assembly. With the air cleaner base installed the top of the filter hits the fiberglass on the shaker, keeping it from dropping down far enough. If I remove the element the fiberglass scoop will fit.

This is my air cleaner base assembly,

IMG_7969 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

Installed on the car,

IMG_7964 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

Showing where the top cover hits the inside of the shaker when the element is installed. You can see how the cover hits the sides of the shaker, preventing the shaker form going all the way down.

IMG_7965 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

An option would be to use the PTF-EP-401 air cleaner base. It has a cone shaped element that is smaller at the top.

IMG_7966 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

I tried calling PTF, but only got voice mail. Butler Performance shows this air cleaner base in their catalog but says it is not available. Anybody else run into this problem? Any suggestions? I see an alternative from Blockers, but I am not sure I like the look.

[ryeguy2006a]

Great progress on the motor install!! Must be so nice hearing it fire up for the first time.

[roadking77]

Shame youre having problems with the shaker. It does look like it lines up in the right place. I have an aluminum Ebrock performer intake on my motor but the PO modified the the air cleaner into a drop base. I had no idea that this was even done until after reading about problems with aftermarket intakes on this forum. I would have thought ( Im sure you did too!) that the butler thing would work with their motor. Sorry I cant help other than giving you moral support.

[RamblerRacer]

Not sure how that all fits together. Can you post some other pics from different angles.
I’ll dig up some pictures of what I made to accommodate my Fitech installation. It could help you put

[RamblerRacer]

Looking at it again this morning with less blurry vision 🥴 I see the interference. It does not look like an issue at all related to the height of the manifold.  I guess use a shallower filter?

JT

[5th T/A]

I got my air filter / shaker clearance problem solved thanks to suggestion from Gene-73. I purchased the conical shaped airaid filter as he suggested. That saved me big bucks from purchasing an entire filter base from PTF.

Thanks Gene!

New filter installed.

IMG_8011 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

I put my old shaker on a new base purchased from Classic industries. New base is on the right.

IMG_8013 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

Shaker mounted on engine.

IMG_8017 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

IMG_8019 by Lawrence Alexander, on Flickr

I have put 170 miles on the new engine. Drivability is very good, no problems so far. Next on the list is to get my OEM exhaust sorted out.

[roadking77]

Good deal Larry,

[RamblerRacer]

That’s slick. Glad it all worked out
You needaTA-7.X decal on that shaker

JT

[ryeguy2006a]

Congrats, glad you are driving it! What are your initial impressions of the added power?