MNBob's 1979 TATA 5 Speed

[TATurbo]

This is good info for sure.  + I learned something...I didn't even know these CAT scales existed.
A few years ago I weighed my 2011 Challenger on a local municipal scale they have at a yard waste/composting site.  That car was something like 4180 with me in it.  So, probably around 3900. 
I'm curious to know what my LS swapped '81 weighs compared to the 301 and 400.

[Nexus]

Not sure why I have missed the reboot of your thread but glad I found it again!!

The engine swap is going to be exciting to watch!!

[MNBob]

The Weather
It has been really hot here.  Usually in Minnesota, you have a few hot days and then it cools down.  This has gone on for more than a week.  Starting with Thurday, June 3rd the highs have been 88,95,97,91,93,93,94 today, and 98 for tomorrow.

Projects
I have been working like a madman trying to get things done on the house so later this summer I can devote full time to the TA.  A lot has been completed in the last month:

• New ceramic towel bar in the master bath shower.
• New gutter and downspout on the south side of the house.
• Complete redo of the wood burning stove chimney.
• Replacement of rotten trim on garage door opening with plastic.
• Upgrade to fish cleaning stand behind house.

Image Hosting
With this post, I am again trying to use Google Photos for image hosting.  Let me know if you can not see the photos below.

Intake Manifold
I ordered and took delivery of a reproduction 1969 Corvette 427 ultra low profile intake manifold (ouch!)(see below).  I am doing everything to keep the 502 as low as possible so the hood scoop will fit.  The ports on the intake are oval while those on the 502 are "roval" which means rectangular with the corners rounded.  There is a port mismatch as shown in the photo.  The intake has some ridges on the edges of the ports so I will use a die grinder to get those out, but I am not going for a perfect match.  A little difference is fine.   I am also wondering if I should remove the exhaust crossover block off plate from the gaskets.


Intake Top View


Intake End View


Intake Ports


502 Intake Gasket

[MNBob]

Hot Off the Dyno!
I went to DB Performance (highly recommended) today to get the car dynoed to measure the rear wheel horsepower with the mostly stock Pontiac W72 engine.  The drive to Rogers, MN was 27 miles.

The owner's father had had a 1979 black and gold with and Olds 403 engine.  Before the dyno runs, we each guessed at the RWHP. His guess was 180 and mine was 220.  I am happy to report the actual number was 234!  See the graph below for full information. The peak torque was 317 at 3500, but the torque was near 300 from 2200 to 4200.  The engine was really consistent for all the runs.

After the dyno, session the owner asked me if he could drive it.  I said sure and we went for a drive which he thoroughly enjoyed. He had owned and still did a lot of cool cars, especially Mustangs of all vintages.

[ryeguy2006a]

I bet you'll be close to doubling that RWHP number with the 502!! Are you running the crate motor as is or do you plan to swap the cam out for something more aggressive?

[5th T/A]

Bob,

Thanks for sharing the Dyno numbers on your W72. It will be interesting to see what you get out of the 502.

[roadking77]

Good info Bob, I will put this in my file. My engine builder said he is going to run my motor on the dyno when hes finished. Curious to see how they compare.

[MNBob]

Using a standard loss factor of .15, that means the engine has 275 HP.  That is well above the stock rating of 220.  I do have headers and 2.5 dual exhaust with straight though mufflers.

I may do a cam swap on the 502 later, but for now I am getting it running with the cam in it.  It is very conservative and bigger cube engines can easily use bigger cams and still be street friendly.  Doubling the RWHP would be pretty awesome, but I think it will be closer to 440 (still great).  I told Danny at DB Performance that I would be back with the 502 at some point.

[MNBob]

Intake Porting
I did a mild clean up of the intake ports to better match the head and gasket.  Still smaller than the head ports, but I don't think it will matter.


Original Left Intake Ports


Modified Left Intake Ports


Original Right Intake Ports


Modified Right Intake Ports

[Nexus]

It's all these little things that add up to the overall performance boost!!

I like watching stuff like this, and I'm excited to see the after results!!

[5th T/A]

Hey Bob,

Last post you had lots of home projects in the works and were in the process of porting the new intake manifold?

Any updates?

[MNBob]

Status Update
My wife and I decided to update our 40 year old house last summer by replacing the carpeting with luxury vinyl planks.  I thought it should be easy because because we hired it done.  Unfortunately, the project had terrible scope creep and this led to endless work on my part.  It started with a total rehab of all the base trim, then opening up a doorway, then redoing many walls and painting, and even led to a complete revamp of all AV systems.

I was about a month in when I realized I had to postpone the work on the new 502 engine installation until 2022.  It was probably a good thing as the work and expenses would be spread over two years.  It has given me more time to plan this all out.

502 Motor Mounting
I was able to get out in the garage in December and work on the motor mounting.  After reviewing various options, I decided with using Energy Suspension mounts and Jegs frame mounts.  There needs to be a lot of flexibiliy here as the hood scoop has to fit as well as a host of other things.  This system places the mount bolts about an inch above the frame saddle; if need be I can lower them.

The Jegs frame mounts were for something else, they needed to be trimmed to match the the engine mounts (see pics).



One Mount Trimmed Side View


One Mount Trimmed End View


Frame Mounts Painted


Frame and Motor Mounts Together

[silver78]

Looking good.  A BBC can make stupid torque when cammed properly. If you're considering upgrading the cam prior to installing the engine would be your best opportunity.

[5th T/A]

Bob,

Great to hear you are working on your car again. Getting the shaker height right might be a challenge

[MNBob]

The ZZ502 makes over 500 ft-lbs of torque from 2500 rpm to 5300 rpm peaking at 580 (3600 rpm).  This is a street car so I am staying with the street cam it comes with to start.

I have a list of measurements that I will be taking to make the new engine and drive train fit.  One of them is the height of the existing intake Sniper mounting surface.  This is one reason I purchased the 1969 427 Corvette intake, it is the ultimate low profile BBC intake (good for 390 HP on the 427 Vette).

One of the other critical measurements is the distance of the back Carb/Sniper mounting holes on the intake to the firewall.  I need to keep the hood scoop in the same fore/aft position so it will fit through the hole in the hood.

Image Hosting
I have started to use Google Photos for image hosting.  There have been glitches with this, so bear with me.  I may have to go back to Flickr and delete my old photos.

[chief poncho]

Been catching up on your thread.  Unfortunately, the images aren't coming through for me.  Sounds like a great build and I'll keep following it.  You can try using this link to embed google images.  I find it works pretty well, but its a bit tedious to use.  You just click on your google photo, select the share icon, choose create a link, select create a link, copy and paste the google link generated into the online tool and then select GENERATE.  It creates two paths.  Select the Direct Image Link and use the image icon above to place it in your post.

https://www.labnol.org/embed/google/photos/

[MNBob]

Thanks so much for the tip.  The images were showing up for me on the laptop, but not on the IPad.  I have updated the whole page 2 with your method and they all seem to be working on all platforms.

[MNBob]

Battery Maintainer
The Noco Genius battery maintainer for the Trans Am failed over the winter. The result was two completely dead AGM batteries.  The Noco began to act strange last summer.  It was only a 1.1 amp charger and I felt I needed something bigger for the two AGM’s. So I ordered a Battery Tender 3 amp charger/maintainer to replace it.

The battery tender was much larger than the Genius charger and wouldn’t fit on the existing bracket.  So I had to pull the nose cone and fabricate a new bracket.  I had the nose cone off in 30 minutes.  Putting it on was another story because I wanted perfect alignment with the nose cone and the fenders.  See installation pictures below:



Battery Maintainer Comparison


Installed on Bracket


Front Large View


Maintainer From Top View

[FormTA]

That's a great upgrade.  I used to sell those and never had any issues with them. They seem to make a good product.

[5th T/A]

Nice job on fabricating the bracket. Ouch on loosing two AGM batteries!

I am a big fan of battery tender products. I have six of the larger/ older battery tender plus models. Use them on four of my motorcycles, my TA and generator. I have had only one of them fail and it was probably the oldest. They come with a ten year warranty as long as you keep the receipt. Sent in the bad tender with one of the less than ten year old  receipts and they sent me a brand new tender.

[MNBob]

Good to hear about the Battery Tender reliability.  The only down side is they will not charge a completely dead battery (in the instructions). 

I was able to use an old standard charger on the 2 amp setting on the AGM's to get some charge into them (1.5 days).   Then I hooked up the Battery Tender and it went through its 4 step process overnight to full charge!  I then started the car, ran it, and now the batteries seem to be fine.

Completely discharging any battery is really hard on them.  I have heard this is even more true with AGM's.  After this experience, I bought another smart charger for my garage that will work on even dead batteries.

[roadking77]

I have a battery tender on my motorcycle and love it. My brother has the larger model with hook ups for multiples. I have been wanting to get one for my T/A but I usually start it up at least once a month and dont typically have any problems. At one time they were made in FLA, we would travel by their HQ on a regular basis when travelling the area during bike week.

[kentucky yeti]

5 Battery Tender Plus models here.  So far, no failures after 6 years.

[MNBob]

Brake Lights
The brake lights went out in 2018 and I had to install a new turn signal switch. This lasted until late last summer when it went out again. The switch does not pass the brake light signal through it.  The signal goes up the column on pin 1 and returns on pins 2 and 3.

I took the column apart to investigate why the switch was not working. I fiddled with it for about a half an hour and I was able to get the switch to work for about two minutes, but then it went out again.  I put pressure on various parts of the switch, pulled the flashers off and on, and turn the turn signals off and on.  I had an old one upstairs in the garage, so I took it apart and all it is is a couple of sliding contact plates.  It is hard to figure out where this would go wrong on passing the brake light signal, but it did.

I ordered a new switch and installed it which is a tedious and routine procedure.  However, there was a surprise for me lurking, because when I got the steering column back together the wheel was not pointing up!  In theory, this should never happen because the wheel position is controlled by the lock ring which can only go on one way.

I took it apart several times trying to fix it and it would not go back together right.   I finally ground off one of the teeth on the lock ring and put it back together and it is now right.


New Turn Signal Switch Installed


Installing Lock Ring Retainer         

[kentucky yeti]

I hate columns!

[MNBob]

Yes, between that job and painting the laundry room, I am having a lot of fun now!

[kentucky yeti]

Yes, between that job and painting the laundry room, I am having a lot of fun now!

Ahhh.  Living the dream! 

[MNBob]

Splitter Pipes
My driver side splitter fell off last fall. I have been using band clamps to attach the splitters.  So, I purchased a new set of splitters from Summit Racing for $106!

The new splitters were different than those that I purchased in 2016.  Same part number.  The tip length from top to bottom was a full inch shorter than the old ones. Also, the flared opening for the tail pipe was smaller in diameter and would not go over the tail pipe.  The old ones fit over the tail pipe easily (probably why the driver side fell off).

I really like the clamp on splitters as it gives me some adjustability for positioning them.  This is especially true if something in the exhaust system changes.  In addition to that, the clamp on splitters and the two piece tail pipes make it a breeze to remove the entire tail pipe assembly if needed for maintenance.

I cut a slit in the top of the flared end of one of the new splitters and used my tail pipe expansion tool to make it larger so it would fit over the tail pipe.  I installed it with a band clamp and drilled two 1/8 inch holes in the clamp so that I could pin the tail pipe and splitter.  The splitter material was really hard to drill through.  Then I used aluminum pop rivets to make sure that it could not come apart.

I also pinned the right side with the same method.  The difference in height between old and new came to my advantage because the right side tail pipe came out higher so I just left the longer splitter there and the distance from the fender lip matched the other side perfectly.


New Splitter


New Left Side Installed


New Splitter Side View


Right Side Pinned

[5th T/A]

Nice job on the splitter installation, giving you adjustability and security from not falling off again. It seems like many after market parts are not built to the same tolerance as OEM.

When is your new monster motor going in?

Last year I started to install a 1974 Super Duty exhaust system on my car, but the over axel pipes to the muffler were not bent correctly and the tail pipes were way off. I still had my original one piece split tail pipes, they were in great shape so I used them. I took my car to a real muffler shop, they did a nice job fabricating the over axel pipes to the muffler. They also tack welded the pipes going into the muffler and from the muffler to the tail pipes so nothing would slip or shift. The guy doing the work had lots of experience working on firebirds decades ago and said often the repo one piece pipes fit poorly and took lots of work to make them fit. He said I was lucky to have original one piece pipes in very good condition.

[FormTA]

Looks good! I need to install my tips as well. It's been a few years since I "finished " my car and they ate still not on it. I have the Pypes transverse exhaust on my car and they sell an adapter which is supposed to set the correct angle and then the tips (all came from Pypes). The problem is you have to shorten the exhaust and then fit the adapter and then the tips. It appears to be a pain so I haven't tackled it.

Your setup looks good and serviceable.  Nice job.

[MNBob]

When is your new monster motor going in?

This summer.  I wanted to get the car drivable for the period where I'm waiting to put the motor in.

Things are just bananas lately.  Selling the condo was and continues to be a lot of work.  I also have the big plumbing leak in the house as well as other home maintenance items going on.

The good news is the splitter project was the last of the car maintenance items to get it ready to go.  Some of the next items are:

1.   Assembling the engine hoist.
2.   Painting the intake manifold.
3.   Purchasing an engine stand.
4.   Painting the new Milodon pan.
5.   Installing the intake manifold.
6.   Installing the new oil pump pick up.
7.   Installing the new pan.
8.   Pulling the Pontiac motor.

[roadking77]

Sounds good Bob, and I like the splitters. I am willing to bet that you will have your motor in and car running before I hear back from my shop!!

[MNBob]

I don't know about that.  Right now, I can't get out of the laundry room. 

We have company coming on June 10th and my wife wants the downstairs all tidied up by then.  Honey do comes before car in the order of things!

[MNBob]

Home Water Leak
I know this is an auto website, but the house has had of leak in the downstairs for the past five or six years.  This leak has occupied a lot of my time.  It started as a small amount of water would come out in the downstairs every time it rained. I thought it was a roof leak, but I sealed up the roof and even got a new roof at one point and there was no difference. Then I thought it was a drainage leak against the foundation but new grading and gutters also made no difference. Finally, I discovered that the drain line from the kitchen sink was leaking.

Unfortunately, this drain line was inside walls and not easy to get to. I had to tear off the drywall downstairs and the siding on the house to get access to the line.  What I found was the 40 year old ABS drain line was brittle as an eggshell and cracked in two different places (almost completely off near the downstairs ceiling).
 
At any rate, some elbows and about 12 feet of new pipe and it is now all fixed.  Gave me a chance to brush up on my ABS gluing skills.  I wouldn’t want you guys to think all I do in my spare time is sit around and eat bon-bons.

New Equipment
Last year I bought a Power Torque engine hoist from O'Reilly so I assembled that.  I also needed an engine stand and I had picked one out at Harbor Freight but when I went to order it, it was out of stock.  I ended up finding a similar one at Jegs (Jegs brand) for a little more money.  I also assembled that, but the turn handle was really loose, so I modified it and made a handle retainer.  Even though the engine stand and engine hoist came from two totally different suppliers and were different brands, they had exactly the same design and had the same fasteners almost like they were made by the same company.


Cracked Drainage Pipe


Exterior Pipe Access


Repaired Ready to Rock


Drywall Installed


Engine Hoist Assembled


Engine Stand Assembled


Engine Stand Handle Retainer

[5th T/A]

Bob, It seems with a house there is always something that needs attention. Glad you are finding time to work on your engine upgrade. Looking forward to watching your progress.

[roadking77]

Engine equipment looks very nice.

Plumbing leaks are nothing less than a major PIA. A couple of years ago we had a spot show up in the living room ceiling. The drywall seem had been 'popped' for awhile but I just figured that was from movement. When the water started to drip figured it was time to investigate, LOL. Happened to be right under the tub drain and sprung the leak by coincidence right after my grandson took a bath. I figured the drain popped loose so proceeded tearing the ceiling apart. After removing half the ceiling and finding water but no leak I traced it back to the supply line to the sink!! Copper line had a pin hole leak. I could have fixed it within 5 minutes and no mess. If my grandson had not just taken a bath I would have never thought to look at the drain.

Not to sound negative, and only constructive criticism, but you will do yourself a big favor if you take out all of those small pieces of drywall and replace it with one. One joint to deal with is much better than a dozen.

[FormTA]

One joint to deal with is much better than a dozen.
Report

This.

[MNBob]

That is a a good point, but I did not have a 4 x 8 sheet available.  But I did have a lot of extra pieces upstairs in the garage, so
I tried to use them up.  It is almost done now, sanded out, just a few of small divots to fill and it will be ready for paint.

[roadking77]

Sounds great. I was just trying to save you some time so you can get back to your new motor, LOL.

[kentucky yeti]

Around here, ABS is only used in mobile homes.  I haven't used anything but PVC in 25 years in a house.  Different areas/different codes.