Author Topic: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake  (Read 9641 times)

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« on: December 17, 2022, 12:13:35 AM »
Hellow TAC,
 
  Anyone have experience with installing the Parking Brake lever onto the rear 4-Wheel-Disc set-up on the late 2nd Gen's?
  Specifically...My problem is getting the 'Screw Assembly' that sticks out the back of the caliper (where the lever connects) to stick out enough for that Hexagon shape the park brake lever fits onto to stick out far enough to mount the washer/seal and lever.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about...
Untitled by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

In the above pic, that threaded post, with the hex shape about 1/2" down is only stiking out the back around 1/2". The 'hex' area doesn't stick out past the back of the caliper.  So, the lever can't locate on that part of that 'post'.  See...?
Untitled by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

Looking at the exploded view, that post coming out the back appears to be conneced to the caliper 'actuator' (Piston). 
Do I just need to compress the caliper piston, same as if changing pads?

How about installing the spring onto between the lever and the park brake spring bracket the cable pulls through?
Any tricks?  Install the lever, then the spring seat/bracket piece (w/the spring inserted) second? 
Any tips or tricks? 

Any input would be appreciated!  Thanks.

-Tom
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

jonathonar89

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2510
    • Mark's Cars Inc.
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2022, 03:42:13 PM »
The piston is a screw-in piston.  Turn it in on the other side.
Mark's Cars Inc.

https://markscarsinc.com

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2022, 07:53:11 PM »
Ah ha! Screw it in?  I’m gonna go look at it now…thanks!
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2022, 09:28:15 PM »
So...Umm...Rotate/screw the piston? Is there some sort of special tool I should use to turn the piston?  It doesn't want to move easily. 
The caliper I'm working on to try to figure this out is a dud that leaked when I bought it.  It's been sitting in a box, with a cap on the brake line hole for a year or two.  It's possible there's some rust inside, but I'd be surprised if it was sitting long enough to rust up completely. It hasn't been out in the weather. 

Is there a special tool one would use to fit the detents on the caliper to screw it in?

451 GM late 70’s /early 80’s rear disc brake caliper by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

Thanks again for any input everone!

 
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

81Blackbird

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1364
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2022, 10:43:54 AM »
There is a special tool but it is not needed.  Just use a "C" clamp to press the piston back inside.  The screw will then be pushed back out.  Or, if there is enough to grab with a pair of pliers just screw it out in the correct direction.
If your putting new pads on the piston will have to be retracted anyway.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2022, 10:45:45 AM by 81Blackbird »

Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2022, 10:43:54 AM »

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2022, 09:00:33 PM »
Thanks, Blackbird!
I finally found the appropriate page in the manual.  I was annoyed that there's no info about the lever in the parking brake section.  Turns out...that info is over with the caliper / section of the brake chapter.  I found this in my good old Chiltons manual, circa 1992...

79 - 81 GMRear disc brake by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

It says to compress the caliper with a C-Clamp, just like a 'normal' disc brake caliper...
79-81 GM rear disc brakes by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

I got it to push in about 1/8 on this old caliper...But somethin' aint right 'cause I ruined my biggest C-Clamp in by having to use a prybar on it.

79-81 GM rear disc brakes by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

This C-Clamp had survived several prior brake jobs.  I'm sure I wasn't blocking the post on the back side while trying to clamp down.   I guess I just hope the ones on the car will be more cooperative. IDK, this whole setup seems to be a PIA.  If you look at the exploded view above, you can see there's a washer and seal that have to go on first...They are about 1/8 thick, then the lever itself is another 1/8 After all that clamping my 'test' calipier still isn't seated enough...

79-81 GM rear disc brakes by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

That's even enough for JUST the lever...which is 1/8 thick...
Untitled by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

On top of all of that, that hexagon shape in the lever is a very tight fit over the hex on the caliper actuator/post.  The stock one shows evidence of perhaps being 'coaxed' on with a screwdriver/hammer at some point in the past. The hext shape in the NEW lever seems to measure just a tiny bit too small to fit over the hex on the actuator/post...I can't get it to go on...even on the bench.  Honestly, the new pieces appear to be too precise and may require some 'fine tuning' to make them less precise?

I'll keep at it...At least I now have the information someone might use to complete this job. 



« Last Edit: December 20, 2022, 09:42:34 PM by TATurbo »
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

81Blackbird

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1364
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2022, 04:01:37 AM »
Also, if the piston bottoms out and it is not full retracted, just turn the adjustment screw in one turn or two but not so far that it pops out of the O-ring.  They are a PITA.  I hope the ratcheting  system works. 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 06:09:46 AM by 81Blackbird »

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2023, 11:02:35 PM »
You can say that again, 81Blackbird! These are a pain.
 I think I sorta figured it out.  And, I'll write it out here in case it might help someone in the future. But something funky is going on with the left (LH) side caliper.
 Does anyone have a pic of an original set?

I think the LH calipers are rare for some reason.  Core charges are 3x what they charge for RH calipers. Some places have only the RH part listed.  Some say LH is discontinued. The places that list a LH caliper show either an unmarked unit or one with an R stamped on it.    I cannot find a picture of a caliper marked 'L' anywhere.

I purchased the calipers installed on my car in 2015.  They are ACDelco replacements. There is an "R" stamped on the caliper body and the actuator post for the RH caliper.  The LH part has no markings.  I went back to pics I took when I disassembled the car in 2015.  And found this...

P9240061 by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

TWO RH Calipers?!

 The car was 10 years old when I bought it.  I have no recollection of changing the calipers back in the day.  But, there is no way GM would stamp an R on one caliper and leave the other one with no markings...right? And, GM definitely wouldn't have a Left side caliper with a big R on it...right?

So, WTF is up with these LH calipers?

The reason why all of this matters is because the spring bracket and lever only install onto the caliper one way. And, when installed that way on my unmarked "LH" caliper, the lever turns the actuator in the wrong direction.

Turning the actuator post CLOCKWISE engages the parking brake. If you look at the pic below you can see that when the cable is pulled toward the front of the car by the parking brake pedal (compressing that spring), the post will turn COUNTER CLOCKWISE.   

Untitled by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

So, I think one of the following must be true about the real (correct) LH calipers of this design.
Either:
A) The bolt hole that determines how the spring bracket is clocked (And maybe the position of the lever stops)
     are in different positions then a RH caliper. (Allowing the lever to be mounted at say 2 o'clock instead of the 7
     o'clock position shown above).
or
2) The actuator post in a 'real' LH caliper turns in the opposite direction? (COUNTER CLOCKWISE to push
     on the caliper piston in, thus engaging the brake)?

Do any of you guys have any thoughts on this?

I haven't fully tested things yet, but the RH caliper is installed, adjusted, and engaging as expected.  So, things are 50% functional I suppose.   I'll share my experience getting things adjusted in this thread in order to close the loop on things.  But, I wanted to see if anyone has any experience to share regarding the LH caliper issue noted above first.

Thanks again TAC!

Take care.
-Tom 




 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 11:13:12 PM by TATurbo »
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2023, 11:25:47 PM »
Ok.  This is stupid. I spent about 6 weeks fiddling with the stupid parking brake.  Spoiler Alert...It still aint right.
But all the parts are together and they should pass the PA State inspection.

Anyway, I figured I'd close the loop on this thread.

I finally found a picture of an actual marked, LH Caliper:

GM Left Rear caliper by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

  As I suspected, the unmarked caliper on my left rear is wrong. You can see in the pic above how the park brake lever is up around 1 O'clock vs. 7 O'clock on the unmarked caliper I got when I ordered Ames PN FR218EB (now discontinued). 
Untitled by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

The orientation of the lever is determined by a metal 'stop' on the back side of the caliper + the hole that mounts the spring retainer.

Reviewing old GM Parts catalog info, combined with some notes I think came from a pre-crash TAC post from someone more familiar with these parts, I found the GM PN's for these calipers are:
18006748 Caliper Rear(LH)
18006749 Caliper Rear(RH)
And, These calipers were also used on Cadillac Seville's and El Dorado's of the era.

So, to have a properly installed and fully functional e-brake, I need to replace my LH caliper with the correct one.

Finally, I wanted to try to write something about adjusting the parking brake.  'Cause the instructions and video's I found seemed contradictory in some places.  Maybe its just how my brain works.  Here's how I'd describe the adjustment process:

Caliper is on the car.  Pads installed. 
When turning the post/actuator via the inner hex shape, the post will move in and out. There is some sort of ratcheting/clutch voodoo going on inside there.  While the post can push on the piston, it is not directly connected to it.

Because of the way the post moves in and out, you need to install the lever retaining nut onto the post while turning it with an open-end wrench.  The nut prevents the post from pulling too far in so you can't reach the inner hex shape...Like my first problem in this post.

Untitled by Tom Sherer, on Flickr

Turning the post clock-wise pushes the piston outward, clamping the pads to the rotor / actuating the brake.  Keep turning Clock-wise and eventually, the piston will clamp the pads on the rotor.  It'll get tight and wont turn Clockwise anymore.

Turning the post counter Clockwise backs the post off the piston. but, remember it's not connected.  So...it doesn't actually pull the piston back in.  Turning Counter clock-wise works the adjustment mechanism. Because of magical, self-adjusting clutch/ratchet in there, a person could spin and spin and spin Clockwise and not notice any change.  But, there's some sort of ratchet that is the key to adjusting the park brake actuator/lever. 

OK, so...With the nut installed on the post, put a wrench on the inner 9/16 Hex and turn clock-wise until it wont turn anymore. 
Here comes the 'trick'.  The lever needs to fit onto that inner hex shape in a position that leaves no more than 1/8" gap between the lever and the stop on the caliper.   Tighten down clock wise, then turn the post counter clock-wise.  Just a 1/4 turn or so.  You will feel the post try to pull in (but it can't 'cause you have the nut on there) you'll feel some resistance..push past it. That's the magical adjuster doing its job.  Now...turn back CLOCKWISE.  You should notice that your wrench doesn't return quite as far as where you started at before you feel it back to that tight position. 
Repeat this...Turn to tight...Turn 1/4 counter clock-wise...then back to tight. 
This ratcheting action moves the inner hex around. Repeat until is it clocked at the EXACT point where the lever will fit on with no more than 1/8" movement off the stop before it feels tight.

Good Luck!

-Tom 




Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

firebirdparts

  • Jedi Council
  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19504
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2023, 04:44:10 PM »
I'm just making this up, but the right hand caliper could be shared with cars that didn't use staggered rear shocks, and the left caliper can't be.  I think that explains the difference in rarity.  There used to be a ton of downsized Eldorados, Toronados, and Rivieras on the road with front wheel drive and rear 11" disc brakes (let's say 100,000 cars a year for 7 years).  They did not have staggered shocks, both calipers were behind the center.  A Trans Am is the only car, I think, that uses that left caliper, unless maybe the 1970's rear drive Cadillacs used it.  They were rare, though, with rear disc.  Really rare.

In terms of the bleeder location, on a trans am, both calipers are the same.  The parking brake mechanism is the curious part.

when we were parting out cars, I used to get lots and lots of requests that I break up a disc posi axle to give them either one e-brake lever, or else one of those little brass blocks that was drilled for the end of the brake line.  I never did.

I've never pushed one in without screwing it in, and I really didn't think you could due to the ratchet.  But then I never tried.  I just screwed the piston in every time I had to work on one.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 04:52:20 PM by firebirdparts »
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

scarebird

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1919
  • Former brake guy
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2023, 09:15:54 PM »
Different animal - the 79 to 81 F calipers were the same as the 79 Seville - nothing else.

The Eldo rear calipers are the critters that were used on all 1979-85 Eldorados and most Riv's and Toros. They trailed the axle on both sides.

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2023, 08:45:52 PM »
I feel a little better having some ideas about why the LH Caliper is 'special'.   Thanks for sharing your insight guys!

One of these days I'll get that sorted out properly.  For now, I just need it to pass inspection.  I think the way it's rigged it'll give a couple of actuations before it self-adjusts and starts dragging.  Should be just enough to get me a stupid PA safety inspection windshield sticker.

Oh...and shhhh...This is all on the DL of course.  I don't need 'the man' knowing I'm trying to get over on 'em.
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

langss

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 354
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2023, 10:55:56 PM »
I don't have one to look at right now but those Calipers look very similar to the rear Calipers on Third Gens. They are notoriously problematic, and known for not working properly. If they are the same caliper that might solve your problem. I hope this helps.

firebirdparts

  • Jedi Council
  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19504
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2023, 04:15:28 AM »
I am not really that hot to put disc brakes on, so I haven't even tried to keep a set, but I would be very tempted to put on the scarebird e-brake and boring calipers.
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5703
  • Life is short, have fun, Drive a T/A
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2023, 10:55:52 AM »
Or the 4th gen. I love mine! Work amazing.
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
49 Ford F1 on a 2003 Chevy ZR2 Chassis (current project)
Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2023, 10:55:52 AM »

NY81TTASE

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 736
  • '81 turbo trans am SE
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2023, 09:27:10 AM »
This instruction sheet is pretty good
1981 turbo trans am se

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2023, 11:17:18 AM »
I spent 3 hours trying to get the parking brake system to function on my 1981 TA. I was not able to get it to work. Calipers and rotors are new. I have the WS6 package staggered shocks. On the LH side, the caliper spring and lever slit faces down and the RH side it faces up. With the wheels removed and the system engaged, I can't turn the rotors by hand but can when system is disengaged. However, when the tire/wheel assembly is installed, I can turn them with the parking system engaged, obviously the tire/wheel assembly gives me a lot more leverage. Bottom line, it does not work yet. I have removed the cable slack using the equalizer nut from the bottom, Nothing works so far and it is very frustrating.

firebirdparts

  • Jedi Council
  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19504
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2023, 02:05:53 PM »
Well, lever travel is what it is, of course, and there's a ratchet inside the caliper that's going to adjust the mechanical part up.  So if it works "a little" then using it several times may help it.  It helps in my opinion if you are really sure you've got enough slack to let it sit back down on the fully released position, and of course no more than that.

That said, I hate them.  I'm not saying it'll ever work. 
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

81Blackbird

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1364
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2023, 05:42:13 AM »
Take the return spring on the caliper off.  With the caliper on the axel, move the lever from the full off position to the simulated emergency on position.  If the lever only travel about half way, the ratcheting system in that caliper is working.  If it travels the full length, then the ratcheting system is not working and will be limited until the brake pad wares down and the next tooth of the ratchet can be reached.  Then it will gradually stop working again.  Mine did the same thing when I got the car and I replaced both sides.  I took one apart one day and found that where the ratchet pivots was rusted and corroded.  After cleaning it up it worked fine.  The pivot point can also be reached, if I remember correctly, by removing the little yellow plug in the center of the piston.  Take the plug out and spay some PB Blaster or other anti-rust inhibitor in the hole and work the ratchet back and forth.  You will have to remove the piston from the caliper in order to work the ratchet or you can place a large washer in place of the lever, replace the nut and spin the ratchet as if your setting the emergency brake.  Don't worry about the liquid getting into the brake system.  There is a seal that will prevent this and the plug is there to keep contaminants out as well as letting you know the seal inside is leaking brake fluid which will eventually end up on the floor.

It's been a while since I did this, so I'm hoping I wrote down the procedure correctly.

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2023, 03:30:42 PM »
This instruction sheet is pretty good

Thank you for posting this.

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2023, 03:35:46 PM »
One thing that is certain, the caliper lever and spring assembly can't be facing the ground. It has to face the wheel opening side. The caliper I bought from O'Reilly's said it is LH but it is not. Unfortunately, it has been a year since I installed the caliper and won't be able to return it even though it has 2 miles of use, yes TWO. This is what happens when you assume things and my failure to adjust the system and the safety/emergency brake right then was a mistake in hindsight. Now, I must buy the correct LH and replace the incorrect one. I suppose I can use the brand new one from last year as core  :?

TATurbo

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 821
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2023, 09:50:32 PM »
For the record, I've come up with a perfect solution for MY situation...

 I got all the parts installed, and adjusted the rear brake calipers according to the shop manual and instruction sheet NY81TTA Posted (Thanks for sharing that!).   Testing and checking with a Temp gun confirmed the 'regular' brakes function fine.   

However, because of the problems I've had locating a correct LH Caliper one problem persisted...
With one of these unmarked or 'RH' calipers installed on the left side engaging the parking brake will cause the RH caliper to grab the rotor as expected.  And it'll hold the car.   HOWEVER...Parking brake actuation causes LH caliper to 'self adjust' and begin dragging after just a couple of cycles.

With my current setup, it passes the annual inspection required for Pennsylvania's safety inspection. (The main reason I endeavored to get it functioning in the first place.)

My solution:  Ignore the problem. 

I intend to upgrade the entire system on this car at some point in the not-too-distant future.  That, plus the fact that I never use the parking brake on any of my automatic-equipped cars has led me to the best solution for ME...

Pretend everything is fine.



 
Tom
King of Prussia, PA

1981 Turbo Trans-Am
Build thread - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83354.0

N PRGRES

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1225
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2023, 05:31:16 AM »
For the record, I've come up with a perfect solution for MY situation...

 I got all the parts installed, and adjusted the rear brake calipers according to the shop manual and instruction sheet NY81TTA Posted (Thanks for sharing that!).   Testing and checking with a Temp gun confirmed the 'regular' brakes function fine.   

However, because of the problems I've had locating a correct LH Caliper one problem persisted...
With one of these unmarked or 'RH' calipers installed on the left side engaging the parking brake will cause the RH caliper to grab the rotor as expected.  And it'll hold the car.   HOWEVER...Parking brake actuation causes LH caliper to 'self adjust' and begin dragging after just a couple of cycles.

With my current setup, it passes the annual inspection required for Pennsylvania's safety inspection. (The main reason I endeavored to get it functioning in the first place.)

My solution:  Ignore the problem. 

I intend to upgrade the entire system on this car at some point in the not-too-distant future.  That, plus the fact that I never use the parking brake on any of my automatic-equipped cars has led me to the best solution for ME...

Pretend everything is fine.



 

I just removed mine for now.  If my brakes ever fail, I'll put it into a ditch.  However in my 40ish years of driving, I've never had to use the E Brake, well, at least for an emergency  :o :o
Dave

81 Trans Am w/73 400.

Wallington

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2473
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2023, 06:27:18 AM »
What about the park brake for parking?

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5703
  • Life is short, have fun, Drive a T/A
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2023, 07:09:55 AM »
I've never had a functional parking brake in my life. To park just put it in 2nd and walk away. But, I live in the flat area of Ohio so, no worries. That said, now you have me thinking about it because of the 4 speed Formula build I have in queue for my 16 year old son. You know the saying, "do as I say, not as I do". I may have to do something for that car.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2023, 07:12:17 AM by FormTA »
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
49 Ford F1 on a 2003 Chevy ZR2 Chassis (current project)
Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2023, 07:09:55 AM »

b_hill_86

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2135
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2023, 11:05:13 AM »
Is the formy disc or drum?

I do use my parking brake on my 77 with drums frequently. Never did with any other car but this one. I like the extra security when parked.
-Brian-

1977 Trans Am 400 4 speed

N PRGRES

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1225
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2023, 12:17:05 PM »
What about the park brake for parking?
I can probably count on one hand when I have ever seen anyone use a parking brake for parking.  On a steep hill, maybe. 
Dave

81 Trans Am w/73 400.

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5703
  • Life is short, have fun, Drive a T/A
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2023, 08:03:38 PM »
It's drums but I will probably swap it to 4th gen disks because they are amazing on these cars. The feel and stopping power is awesome.
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
49 Ford F1 on a 2003 Chevy ZR2 Chassis (current project)
Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Wallington

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2473
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2023, 09:14:02 PM »
I can probably count on one hand when I have ever seen anyone use a parking brake for parking.  On a steep hill, maybe.
[/quote]

Sounds like America! I sometimes close the door when I get out, other times, I just walk, saves time later.

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2023, 05:24:19 PM »
A functional safety/emergency brake is must, in my opinion. In case of the main brakes system failing, only the safety brake has the ability to bail you out from total disaster. Without it, you have nothing to stop/slow the car down. I experienced the brake pedal clevis pin clip fail and the brake pedal became useless. I had a functioning safety brake which I used to stop the car. The worst feeling in my driving experience was the clevis pin letting go.

nas t eh

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1166
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2023, 02:02:07 AM »
A functional safety/emergency brake is must, in my opinion. In case of the main brakes system failing, only the safety brake has the ability to bail you out from total disaster. Without it, you have nothing to stop/slow the car down. I experienced the brake pedal clevis pin clip fail and the brake pedal became useless. I had a functioning safety brake which I used to stop the car. The worst feeling in my driving experience was the clevis pin letting go.

You can slow a car with the transmission and engine compression by downshifting through the gears.
1973 T/A 455, 4 speed.

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5703
  • Life is short, have fun, Drive a T/A
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2023, 03:26:11 AM »
Yes, I'm not saying it isn't a nice option to have a functional emergency brake. I was just saying that here in ohio with the rust and minimal use, emergency brakes hve never functioned on any car I have ever driven.
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
49 Ford F1 on a 2003 Chevy ZR2 Chassis (current project)
Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2023, 08:12:00 AM »
A functional safety/emergency brake is must, in my opinion. In case of the main brakes system failing, only the safety brake has the ability to bail you out from total disaster. Without it, you have nothing to stop/slow the car down. I experienced the brake pedal clevis pin clip fail and the brake pedal became useless. I had a functioning safety brake which I used to stop the car. The worst feeling in my driving experience was the clevis pin letting go.

You can slow a car with the transmission and engine compression by downshifting through the gears.

Obviously, but "slow a car" is very different from actually stopping the car. The difference being damaging the car or keeping it intact.

scarebird

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1919
  • Former brake guy
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2023, 09:44:19 AM »
I can probably count on one hand when I have ever seen anyone use a parking brake for parking.  On a steep hill, maybe.

Using your parking brake is a must if it is a disc ratcheting caliper; that is how it stays in adjustment.

Even with an automatic, engage the parking brake THEN put it in park - takes the stress off the transmission.

BAD2000TA

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 247
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2023, 01:03:37 PM »
As you probably already know, the factory rear disc brakes are a pain in the ass! I went the S10 brake route, as I wanted to keep my 15" Snowflakes.

1980 Trans Am Y84 SE, WS6, 455, Sniper EFI, T-tops
2001 Trans Am WS6, 6-speed, Stroked LS6 (383), Custom Comp Cam, LS6 heads, Strange 60
"That's an attention-getter"

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5703
  • Life is short, have fun, Drive a T/A
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2023, 03:51:01 PM »
We need to recreate the s10 brake sticky. I might need it soon! And or try my old stock wheels on my TA with 4th gen rear disks.
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
49 Ford F1 on a 2003 Chevy ZR2 Chassis (current project)
Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

N PRGRES

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1225
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2023, 06:50:49 AM »
I can probably count on one hand when I have ever seen anyone use a parking brake for parking.  On a steep hill, maybe.

Using your parking brake is a must if it is a disc ratcheting caliper; that is how it stays in adjustment.

Even with an automatic, engage the parking brake THEN put it in park - takes the stress off the transmission.

Because thats a thing?  Of all the cars in just the USA not doing that, how much damage does it created?  I would venture to say, zero.  I mean if thats your thing then go for it, but I don't like doing things that serve zero purpose
Dave

81 Trans Am w/73 400.

firebirdparts

  • Jedi Council
  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19504
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2023, 11:18:13 AM »
Let's just call it mechanical sympathy.  Mechanical sympathy is always good but has limits.  The limits are definitely triggered in this case, but I admit I don't really believe the parking brake will work.

For the record I now have one vehicle that:
1. Is a manual and will not hold still in first gear, and
2.  Has irreplaceable ratcheting rear calipers (they do work).

Living in Appalachia I have to watch where I park it, but I have a steep driveway and there's no choice there if I want to stick it in front of the garage door.
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2023, 11:53:18 AM »
I spent hours over multiple sessions trying to make the emergency brake work. Tried it all, including the 1981 GM service manual instructions to a T. I am convinced the caliper actuators work as intended. The cable equalizer has to have zero slack. With the rear wheels off the ground but not removed, when the parking brake is engaged you can't move them at all but when you disengage the parking brake it rotates; however, when the car is lowered it will not hold in drive. It does hold in reverse and neutral. Leads me to believe it is designed to work by engaging it in neutral first and THEN you activate the emergency brake.
I have had several cars, including 2000 + model ones that you could drive off with the parking brake engaged. The idle speed on my TA is on the high side right now [around 1600] so when it goes into Drive, the torque overpowers the parking brakes and moves the car. So, I am calling my work completed and satisfactory. It appears that system never met the expectations of people as far as holding in drive but perhaps it never did from day 1.
The proper way to engage the parking brake IS to gear it in neutral first and then engage the parking brake, followed by placing the transmission in PARK. With that said, I am convinced the adjustments made have done their job.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 11:57:08 AM by TA301 »

TA301

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 143
Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2023, 12:24:46 PM »
On a final note, the rotation orientation of the caliper lever/spring assembly does not matter at all because they rotate only one way. So long as the parking brake cable actuates it, it does the job of pushing the piston out towards the rotor, regardless of it going clockwise or anti-clockwise.

Re: 1981 Rear Disc Brake Parking Brake
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2023, 12:24:46 PM »
You can help support TAC!