6.0 LQ4 with 4L80e Swap into 79 Trans AM

[EscapeRacing]

Hey all, I am in the early stages of doing this swap. Curious if anyone is interested in pics with progress and notes. Happy to post things but also hate to spend time if its not of interest on this forum.

Cheers.

[5th T/A]

I already upgraded my engine to another Pontiac, but would still enjoy reading about and seeing pictures of your project. Since all the old posts were lost early last year this would be valuable information to others who are contemplating doing a LS swap.

[jonathonar89]

Let’s see it!

[EscapeRacing]

Thanks for the replies and I will post as I go.

I obtained the motor from a guy that pulls them locally. Its from a 2003 Chevy Express 3500 and is a 6.0L LQ4 with a 4L80e Transmission. I took a gamble with an unknown mileage engine that I was not able to hear running, but the seller is a good guy and has been awesome to work with. I paid $2300 for the combo delivered to my house with all the accessories and a drive by wire setup including throttle body and pedal assembly. My buddy ended up buying another 6.0L from him as well from a much newer truck. Really a great guy that just pulls motors in his spare time to get some extra cash and support the LS Swap Community here in Southern California.

The following pics are all breakdown shots. I will post everything I am doing along with part numbers and prices for anyone interested in a  future LS swap .

Note, this is my first time doing an LS Swap or ever working on an LS motor. I am going to make mistakes, do things the wrong way, and probably buy stuff twice....but, I will post all my mistakes as well in hopes it helps others. And I am VERY VERY open to feedback. I have no ego and thick skin, so feel free to beat up on my build, but make it productive, eh?

Motor as it was delivered.


Second motor (my buddies) hanging out in the background


Intake removed, 317 cathedral port heads exposed. I am swapping to 853 heads (more on that later)


Motor rotated - this is the truck oil pan. Way to big for a 2nd gen so I need to source an oil pan


Accessories removed


317 heads before they were removed


Heads removed



Heads coming apart

[ryeguy2006a]

Awesome man! Keep those posts coming. Very curious on the swap from 317 to 853? Are you just looking for a bump in compression? If so, you actually would be better off keeping your 317 heads and have them milled slightly along with a thinner compressed thickness head gasket. 317 heads have the same port design as the 243/799 heads that come on LS6, LS2 and other variations. Best flowing cathedral port heads, just the 317 has a larger combustion chamber.

Not to throw you off on a tangent, but if you wanted to get even more bang for your buck, you could also swap out your stock heads for some square port 821/823 heads. They have amazing flow in stock form, and can be found on many newer truck motors 6.0/6.2 and will really wake up your motor with those heads and a cam swap.

Keep the progress pictures coming, love seeing builds come together.

Thanks,
Ryan

[EscapeRacing]

I went with the 853 heads for more compression. I didnt so much choose those heads as much as they chose me - as in, my buddy had a set and gave them to me for free. So I took out my valves and brought them to the machine shop for a 3 angle valve job and spring installation. I was actually just going to leave the 317 heads on the block and install it but the opportunity came up so I jumped on it.

[EscapeRacing]

Parts List Update - I will post parts as I get them (or keep extending this list) for those that are interested in my true cost of the swap

$2,300 - 6.0L LQ4 with 4L80e from 2003 Chevy Express 3500 (delivered to my house)
$0 - 853 Heads
$250 - Machine work for the heads including 3 angle valve job
$29.99 - Timing Chain (Summit; SME-143012)
$59.98 - Timing Chain Dampner Kit (Summit; TFS-K30675600)
$491.61 - Truck Norris Camshaft Kit (BTR; Cam, Stock LS Pushrods, 0.560 Beehive Valve Springs, Valve Seals
$160.95 - Trunnion Kit (Summit; Comp Cams CCA-13702-KIT)
$14.99 - Cam Retainer Plates (Summit; SUM-150106)
$29.98 - Valve Cover gaskets (Summit; Brian Tooley Racing BTC-BTR37683)
$20.75 - Timing Cover Gasket (Summit; Brian Tooley Racing BTC-BTR33904)
$19.99 - Timing Cover Seal (Summit; Brian Tooley Racing BTC-BTR85673)
$6.99 - Harmonic Balancer Botls (Summit; NAL-12557840)
$71.78 - Head Gaskets (Rock Auto; GM 12589227)
$36.98 - Head Bolts (Rock Auto; Fel Pro ES72173)
$67.96 - Oil Pump (Amazon; Melling M295)
$35.40 - Cam Sensor (Amazon; Standard PC273)
$44.79 - Crankshaft Sensor (Rock Auto; AC Delco 213-354)
$33.46 - Ignition Coil - only one was bad (Amazon; Delphi GN10119)
$11.00 - Coolant Temp Sensor (Amazon; AC Delco 213-4514)
$27.79 - Oil Pan gasket (Rock Auto; GM 12612350)

[ryeguy2006a]

Sounds like you'll have a pretty nice setup there. What do you plan to do for the ECU and harness? It's a lot up front, but I'd highly recommend going with the Terminator X Max ECU. In my opinion they are way better for a swap situation into older cars. Also, are you going to run the stock truck manifold or go with an LS1 or LS6? I think I've only seen a few people who managed to get a truck intake under a stock second gen hood.

[EscapeRacing]

Thanks ryeguy2006a, for the input. I am indeed planning to go with the Holley Terminator X Max to control the engine and transmission. I was also looking at a stock ECU, PCI harness, and local shop tune but when you add up the costs the Holley is not that much more and, like you mentioned, is so much better for the long term.

Manifold wise, it seems the LS6 is the way to go from a cost, fitment, and performance standpoint. Unless you want to spend a ton on aftermarket intakes that is. Problem I'm having is sourcing one much less one that is complete with fuel rails and injectors. Assuming I can only get one that is missing the rails and injectors, do you have any suggestions on which ones to get? Or, if you have one for sale I am all ears!! Also looking for 4th gen oil pan and accessories...

[ryeguy2006a]

Maybe I missed it, but what engine mounts are you going with? That could change what accessories and/or oil pan you could run.

[EscapeRacing]

Maybe I missed it, but what engine mounts are you going with? That could change what accessories and/or oil pan you could run.

I have not purchased them yet, but was looking at this motor and trans kit from BRP Hot Rods - part number 206-0002-80 for $529

https://www.brphotrods.com/products/2nd%20gen%20F%20products/index.html

Thoughts?

[EscapeRacing]

Parts Update

$178.95 - Delphi LS7 Lifters and Guides (LSXceleration; 25341990K1)
$215.45 - 98-02 F Body Oil Pan Kit with pan, gasket, windage, dipstick, tube, etc (Parts Geek; 103-071KT)

[ryeguy2006a]

When I did the LS swap in my 76 T/A about 10 years ago, they didn't have the variety of mounts that are available now. I used Dirty Dingo sliders and they worked great to position my motor where I wanted with no tunnel mods for a t56. I was also able to use my the stock LS1 Fbody pan that came on my motor. I used Hooker Mid-length headers and they fit really well in my car.

That said, I used the Holley mounts this time around and love them. Much simpler to just bolt it down in the one position, not having the freedom to adjust forward and back. Although my application is for a first gen, I think they do a great job with all of their mounting kits to position the engine as low and back as possible in the chassis. They take into consideration driveline angles as well.

I've never used BRP kits, but from those who have used them I get the impression they weren't happy. My suggestion would be to hop over to LS1tech or pro-touring.com and check out what guys are using now. Or maybe some of the guys who have more recently completed the LS swaps will chime in.

Another thing to consider is what you plan do to for an exhaust. Whatever kit you go with, see what they built the exhaust around. Do they have their own proprietary headers? Do you want to spend that much on them? IE Hooker 1 7/8" full length stainless headers for my application are $1200 bucks!

[EscapeRacing]

Man, thank you SO much for this great info. Its extremely helpful

I had been looking at the Dirty Dingo engine mounts, but will absolutely check out Holley. Good insight into the BRP mounting kits - I think Holley may have a solution there as well which I will dig into.

Exhaust wise, I'd heard the Speed Engineering 1 7/8 long tubes were great but apparently they dont ship to CA so I need to find a workaround if I use them. They may need a bit of massaging around the L80e as well. From there I was going to weld up my own piping to connect to my fairly new mufflers (or at least attempt it).

[EscapeRacing]

Decided to go with Speed Engineering 1 3/4 longtube headers

$338 - Speed Engineering LS Longtube Headers with MLS gasket option (Speed Engineering; 25-1025-1)

[ryeguy2006a]

Just re-read this thread. Are you in California? If so, I'm pretty sure that you have to make sure that your car is smog compliant. I'd check into that before you put too much more money into the 1979.

[TATurbo]

Hey Escape, thanks for sharing your swap here.
My wife and I completed an LS swap into our '81 TA in 2019.  Like you, we were novices too.  There's so much support around for these swaps, and helpful people here that you'll get through it no problem.

I have a lot of detailed info from my swap...A complete parts list (including stuff that didn't work for me) and a detailed write-up that was here on TAC before the crash last year (I have a local copy of it).   Let us know if any questions come up.  I'm happy to share my experience...That actually leads me to why I was posting here tonight...

I used a few different parts/kits from BRP Hot Rods for my swap, including their motor mount/transmission cross member kit.  I can't compare them to other kits (this is the only LS Swap I've done), but my experience was that they fit and worked well with my combo ('99 F-Body LS1, 4L60E, stock F-Body exhaust manifolds).   That was the most important thing to me as a beginner doing this swap myself... I wanted stuff that was sure to work together. Everything fit together as expected and there was no adjustment required to get the drive train angle 'dialed in'.

I had shared on here previously my one knock against the BRP Mounts...
They are pretty 'solid'.  This isn't a negative for everyone, more rigid mounts are desirable in a performance application.  But for my intended use, as a cruiser, they transfer too much high-frequency drive train vibration into the car. 

Keep us posted on your progress!

-Tom

[EscapeRacing]

Sorry for my delayed post - house projects seemed to have taken over for the last few weeks but work continues!!

TA Turbo - thanks for the reply, I will definitely PM you for more info.

Progress Update - I''ve been collecting parts and cleaning the block and removing carbon from pistons (before and after pics below). I know thats not necessary but figured why not. Planning to paint it Pontiac Blue this weekend. Also received the heads from the machine shop and wow, they look great but were $200 more than I anticipated. Only material purchases in last few weeks are Speed Engineering Headers, a TBSS intake with throttle body, fuel rails, and injectors, ICT Billet brackets (planning to use truck accessories for the most part), and Shiftworks conversion bracket.

Next big purchase will be the Holley Terminator X Max then need to figure out what mounting hardware I will use. Leaning towards Holley but still TBD...

Parts List Update
$2,300 - 6.0L LQ4 with 4L80e from 2003 Chevy Express 3500 (delivered to my house)
$0 - 853 Heads
$450 - Machine work for the heads including 3 angle valve job
$29.99 - Timing Chain (Summit; SME-143012)
$59.98 - Timing Chain Dampner Kit (Summit; TFS-K30675600)
$491.61 - Truck Norris Camshaft Kit (BTR; Cam, Stock LS Pushrods, 0.560 Beehive Valve Springs, Valve Seals
$160.95 - Trunnion Kit (Summit; Comp Cams CCA-13702-KIT)
$14.99 - Cam Retainer Plates (Summit; SUM-150106)
$29.98 - Valve Cover gaskets (Summit; Brian Tooley Racing BTC-BTR37683)
$20.75 - Timing Cover Gasket (Summit; Brian Tooley Racing BTC-BTR33904)
$19.99 - Timing Cover Seal (Summit; Brian Tooley Racing BTC-BTR85673)
$6.99 - Harmonic Balancer Botls (Summit; NAL-12557840)
$71.78 - Head Gaskets (Rock Auto; GM 12589227)
$36.98 - Head Bolts (Rock Auto; Fel Pro ES72173)
$67.96 - Oil Pump (Amazon; Melling M295)
$35.40 - Cam Sensor (Amazon; Standard PC273)
$44.79 - Crankshaft Sensor (Rock Auto; AC Delco 213-354)
$33.46 - Ignition Coil - only one was bad (Amazon; Delphi GN10119)
$11.00 - Coolant Temp Sensor (Amazon; AC Delco 213-4514)
$27.79 - Oil Pan gasket (Rock Auto; GM 12612350)
$178.95 - Delphi LS7 Lifters and Guides (LSXceleration; 25341990K1)
$215.45 - 98-02 F Body Oil Pan Kit with pan, gasket, windage, dipstick, tube, etc (Parts Geek; 103-071KT)
$195.00 - TBSS Intake with throttle body, rails, and injectors (Facebook Marketplace)
$165.00 - ICT Billet Alternator / Power Steering Pump Brackets (Amazon; ICT Billet 551519X-3)
$338.97 - Speed Engineering Long Tube Headers with bolts and gaskets (Speed Engineering; 25-1025-1)
$105.99 - Shiftworks Shifter Conversion (Summit Racing; SC2262)

[scarebird]

Looks like fun! 

I envy the parts availability of the LS architecture; I went L84 and am finding the support is not 5% of the LS market. 

[ryeguy2006a]

Looks good! Keep up the progress. Looks like you have the right parts to make for a smooth install. I'll say that with the Terminator X Max, you can get the car tuned yourself if you are willing to learn. While advertised as "self-tuning", in reality the only thing that will self tune is the fuel table. The fuel table will only self-tune based on the AFR table, which you can modify. So, the output is only as good as the input. 

That said, I found that out of the box for my mild LS1, that the pre-populated LS base tune worked really well and drove great almost out of the box. However, you do need to play around with the idle tuning to get it right.

Scarebird, Give it time. I think right now the DI is still fairly new and we will get more aftermarket support. If/when I do another project I want to pick up either an L86/87 or one of the L8T 6.6 truck motors. What's unfortunate is that right now there is no support from Holley for the 6/8/10 speed transmissions that come behind the new LT motors. I think once that is an option for Terminator, we will see much more support for the newer motors.

[scarebird]

...Scarebird, Give it time. I think right now the DI is still fairly new and we will get more aftermarket support. If/when I do another project I want to pick up either an L86/87 or one of the L8T 6.6 truck motors. What's unfortunate is that right now there is no support from Holley for the 6/8/10 speed transmissions that come behind the new LT motors. I think once that is an option for Terminator, we will see much more support for the newer motors.

that, and the stinging price tag of the Terminator X for LT's...

One of the reasons I went manual is issues tuners seem to have with the TCM.

[79 Moneypit]

Hi Escape, I'm doing both to my 79 as you; the 78 nose and an LS with 4L80E.  After reading up, I decided on all Holley fit up parts like the motor & trans mounts and Hooker headers.  I installed an Aeromotive 340 Stealth in a new stainless replacement tank from Ames.  I had a custom stainless fuel line set-passenger side install- bent at Classic Tube.  The set has a 3/8" supply with -6 ends and a 5/16" return with hose barbs.  I'm using the Earl's Vapor Guard  hose to make up the short parts.  The front end is rebuilt with PTFB arms, bars, D-52 brakes w/ Wilwood, etc.  PTFB springs and Strange 9" w/ Wilwood brakes in back.  I got my 78 nose from Second Gen Graveyard; I got the idea from your thread on the topic-Thanks for the idea!! 

[stros]

I've never used BRP kits, but from those who have used them I get the impression they weren't happy. My suggestion would be to hop over to LS1tech or pro-touring.com and check out what guys are using now. Or maybe some of the guys who have more recently completed the LS swaps will chime in.

Everything that I bought from BRP worked out great.  Curious what others issues were, but all BRP parts I bought have been very high quality and I had no fitment issues with anything I bought from them. 

Looks like your build is going great, Escape.

[sensei451]

Hoping for more updates on this! Fellow ls swapper here , ls1 into a 81 SE.

Thanks to the incredible support on this forum, I was able to complete the transplant as a total novice.

Been running smooth for a few years now with no issues what so ever.

[ryeguy2006a]

Hoping for more updates on this! Fellow ls swapper here , ls1 into a 81 SE.

Thanks to the incredible support on this forum, I was able to complete the transplant as a total novice.

Been running smooth for a few years now with no issues what so ever.

Glad to hear that you are still up and running!

[Offroadr]

Very cool, I am swapping a 6.0 into a 78 TA.  Just started going through the motor, will have a turbo