Boosting a 301 (for fun)

[FormTA]

So, I have always wanted to mess around with boost be it a turbo or a supercharger... I know the 301 is not a good option but I have a couple of them. The ones I have are the weak ones too so that makes it an even worse idea but I have back ups. So, hear me out an just remember it's just an air pump so we could be talking about a chevy 305...

The 301 is 150hp give or take. I was thinking about installing a Holley sniper efi system on one here recently but then noticed they are capable of blow through boost. So, let's say I pick up a cheap Chinese turbo for cheap and fined somewhere to cram it in (even if it has to be under or at the rear of the car) and blow through the sniper efi. I am not trying to make big power here just add a bit to the car. It will be a 4 speed stick, so that should help maintain the happy spot. I would be fine if all it safely could do is 3 lbs of boost.  It's just for a tiny bit more fun.

The thing is I know nothing about boosting an engine or tuning so I thought maybe this would be possible if I used a self learning efi like Holley and because there are no efi intakes for the 301 just go with throttle body injection. Also trying to do it cheaply and for fun.

I don't know enough yet about the Holly Sniper setup to understand it's ability to connect and control spark though. I have heard there are electronic 301 distributors from 81 out there. I just don't know if it could control it and would I even need it to or could I just run the old stock vacuum advance unit. I would lean towards the electronic distributor so the ecm can tune it, not me though... or, could I take some other distributor and combine it with the 301 housing and make an electronic distributor that it could control.

And if it all goes sideways I have backup engines.

Any input or ideas on this would be helpful.

 

[roadking77]

I think it sounds like fun. I am not mechanically inclined but I am pretty good at figuring things out. I would be up to the challenge for fun and entertainment! You are pretty good with this kind of stuff and I am sure you can do something crazy with it.

[N PRGRES]

Its a 301, you can't make it any worse!  Sounds like a fun experiment!

[5th T/A]

Luke, this is the guy you should talk to https://ttaperformance.com/my-turbo-cars
Actually I think you already have a relationship. Isn’t this where you get your flywheel from? He probably is the most knowledgeable guy out there on th 301 turbo. He has integrated EFI and run 12.85 quarter miles with his 301 turbo TA.

[FormTA]

Ya, I should probably give him a call. He runs them the way they were originally, a where the carburetor or throttle body efi is before the turbo. I want to have the TBI on the standard intake and blow through it. I'm not sure he has ever done that but I'm sure he would know more than I. I was hoping someone who has turbo something or who runs sniper efi will chime in too.

[ryeguy2006a]

I love this!! I'm very jealous because I really want to add boost to my 55, but not in the cards right now. As for the boost through a Holley TBI I can't speak, but the software side it's 100% possible. Not only that, it's quite easy. I think that the stock Sniper fuel injectors are good for around 450 HP on an N/A vehicle, so the boosted would likely be less. More like 375-400, but is likely less than your target so you should be good there. You'll need to figure out what MAP sensor is a direct fit in the TBI and can read up to 2 Bar. You'll also want a beefy fuel pump, but you likely won't need anything more than a 255 lph since you are not looking for lots of boost. On the tuning side, you need to re-map the VE and Spark tables to account for the added boost which reads in kPA. 100 kPA is atmosphere, and 200 kPA is 14.7 psi, so you'd want to update the VE and spark tables to read from zero to about 150 kPA. You'll also want to do some reasearch on what AFR you want to run. I think generally you'd want to be around 12.5 at 100 kPA and bring it down somewhere in the 11's at full boost. Depending on how the motor reacts though, you could lean that out. Selecting the AFR is a hugely critical step in these "self-tuning" ECU's. While it does have a learn table for your fueling, you need to populate the AFR, timing and other variables. I'd probably just pick a 5psi wastegate spring and let the computer tune your fuel tables after you set AFR. Sounds like a really fun project, and I can't wait to hear more about it. Feel free to text me if you have any questions.   

[FormTA]

Here is a screen shot of the sniper 2
 It shows that it comes with a 2 bar map sensor.



So maybe it would be fine as is..??

[5th T/A]

Luke, I am looking forward to seeing you do this. Trying to do a turbo with carburation and crude timing controls was the Achilles heel of the 301 turbo.

Out of curiosity, does the Sniper EFI have a knock sensor?

[FormTA]

No, I don't believe it does.  There are taps in the wiring to add outside senders, so you could probably program one in. I really want to do this just because.  I just have so many projects going.... We'll see how it all plays out. I have to drag the car out of the barn and see how quickly I can get some paint on it. If I do decide to try the turbo than the 301 that is currently in the car can stay. Otherwise I will rip it out and replace it with the nice one I got from you. I don't want to kill yours right off the bat....

All in all I am leaning towards do this project.

[FormTA]

Does anyone have other options/suggestions for an efi system that would be easier or cheaper.

From my minimal research, this Holley setup seems to be pretty straightforward enough that I could do this, even without any tuning knowledge

But I am curious if there are other, easier, better or cheaper options out there.

[ryeguy2006a]

That's nice that the Sniper2 comes standard with a 2 bar MAP and 100 lb. injectors. They must have designed it with boost in mind. I'm sure there are cheaper options out there, but not sure you will find anything else with as much support as Holley right now. Not specifically from Holley, but there are so many users that you'll be able to find a tuner in the event that you get stuck. You don't give yourself as much credit as you deserve. While the boost is new, it's really not that complicated. Some people can make it complicated by adding boost controllers, or methanol or dial-a-boost settings. When you really break it down, there are only a few components and keeping it simple will help. Wastegate goes in the exhaust before the turbo and will control your boost level based on the spring you have. BOV will prevent over boosting the engine when the throttle blades are closed and the turbo is still spooling. If you allow the Sniper2 to control the timing, you can set it up to pull timing as boost goes up. Generally you want to pull a few degrees of timing as the boost pressure increases. Lots of the turbo LS guys are using a 12-12 rule, 12* of timing with 12 lbs. of boost. If you are running 3-5 lbs. of boost, I'd just pull out maybe 5-6 degrees of timing around full boost. N/A AFR should be around 12.5 at WOT or 100 kPA, and with boost you'd want to lower the AFR several points. My LSA engine was happy with 12.5 around 11psi of boost, so it really depends on the feedback from the ECU and if the motor feels happy.

[Nexus]

I'm also curious about all of this as I've had the same ponderings!!

My intent is to install the EFI I picked up cheap a few years ago but I'm always looking at ways to improve things.

I started to watch a fella on YTube that put a supercharger on his 301, which then got those gears turning!!

Side note, I did pick up a replacement electronic distributor from an 81 as the Holley EFI can be tapped right into it to control that  side of things.

[FormTA]

I'll have to search for that guy. The supercharger sounds interesting.  Ya, I need to find one of those distributors or I have to buy one from Holley.

[Nexus]

Ray Soto

https://www.youtube.com/@raysoto1969

This will speed up the search for you!!

[Wallington]

I can imagine doing things on the cheap and to keep things fun also guarantees both will be lost.

[FormTA]

Thanks!

So I spoke with Joe at TTAPERFORMANCE.COM today at great length.  I really appreciate his time and willingness to talk to me about this project. He had some good insights and if anyone doesn't know he is running 13 lbs of boost through the stock internals of his 301. So, we feel safe to run up to 7 lbs on pump gas (he is also running e85 but draw through).

He graciously offered to supply a duel outlet 1981 exhaust manifold to my project.

Well see how this plays out. I'd love to build this as I really think it will be a fun project.

[ryeguy2006a]

Please keep us posted on your progress! I like the sounds of 7lbs of boost. That should wake up the engine a bit. Gale Banks has always said that 14 psi, will essentially double the output of an engine. So at 7lbs you should be at about 1.5x your engine's output.

[FormTA]

If I actually go through with this (which it's look good) I will boost the original engine that is in the car and see how it does.  If it holds together then I'll drop in the other low mileage one


On that note. Joe said he has seen some 80 301s without the T cast into the block that are still beefed up from the factory. That means that my other engine could be a stronger block than my 79

[Nexus]

Joe said he has seen some 80 301s without the T cast into the block that are still beefed up from the factory. That means that my other engine could be a stronger block than my 79

I was under the impression that most or all 301 blocks were "T" blocks in 80 & 81. The 80 I'm putting back together now is, and it's out of an 80 but not a turbo option.

It's too bad that 301 garage isn't around any longer as the information over there would answer any of your 301 questions!

[FormTA]

Apparently there were some 1979 engines that made it into 1980s cars...?? I have heard on a few occasions of 1980 cars with 1979 style engines in them. The 1980 engine I have cam from a forum member with under 10K miles. Pretty sure it was original to the car.

[5th T/A]

Apparently there were some 1979 engines that made it into 1980s cars...?? I have heard on a few occasions of 1980 cars with 1979 style engines in them. The 1980 engine I have cam from a forum member with under 10K miles. Pretty sure it was original to the car.

Luke, looking at the cowl tag, my car had a build date of 09C (3rd week of September). I am pretty sure I matched the VIN number with the serial number stamped on the engine. I looked for and could not find any T stampings on the engine, for whatever that is worth. I think I read somewhere that heads were slightly different on 1980 cars for the air injection system, or maybe the 79's didn't have it?  The engine was quiet and smooth running. Not a powerhouse but would give me a little tire squeak from a dead stop.

The engine had 7200 miles on it when removed from the car. I really did not touch the engine other than to replace the original fuel pump, it did not have any issues, but I was concerned that a 40-year-old rubber diaphragm might fail. A previous owner did replace the plugs and wires (did a lousy job with the plug wires). I pulled the rocker covers off to inspect, they were leaking a little oil. With covers removed the engine was very clean, looked like new. I think the factory used RTV, I would use gaskets.

[FormTA]

Thanks for the info. My memory is getting worse... You ate correct as the 79s don't have a air pump. I will have to weld each of those lines closed or make up some threaded plugs to block those off. I haven't looked close enough but doesn't the tubes go into the exhaust manifolds not tye heads?

If they go into the manifolds it may not matter as I will probably be swapping those out for something else to pipe the turbo.

[5th T/A]

Thanks for the info. My memory is getting worse... You ate correct as the 79s don't have a air pump. I will have to weld each of those lines closed or make up some threaded plugs to block those off. I haven't looked close enough but doesn't the tubes go into the exhaust manifolds not tye heads?

If they go into the manifolds it may not matter as I will probably be swapping those out for something else to pipe the turbo.

If my memory is correct the air pump lines go to the front of the engines cylinder heads. You could run it the way it is as the pump draws almost no power. But it does take space and adds to a cluttered look. You may be able to find freeze plugs you could pound in. I don’t really know what the openings look like.