Towing a trailer with a Second Gen T/A - SUCCESSFUL!

[kboehringer]

Hello Firebird Friends,
It has been a very long time (several years) since I was active on this board.  I apologize for the absence.  At one time, I was quite active here when in the midst of restoration & resto-MOD of my '79 T/A.    In the years since my last activity I have gone off the deep end into my motorcycling hobby acquiring and restoring Vintage Yamaha Motorcycles.

Recently, I was planning to attend the Annual Vintage Yamaha Rally in Stecoah, North Carolina.   Typically, over the last several years,  I've rented a large cargo van to carry my bikes to the rally.  Unfortunately, the cost of the rental has gotten out-of-hand.   Last year's expense for one week was well in excess of $1000!   I decided something different was required.

Although I own multiple vehicles, I own no trucks and only small sedans incapable of towing multiple motorcycles.  HOWEVER, the 455 equipped T/A has more than enough POWER to drag a trailer with a couple bikes!

Having found absolutely NOTHING ANYWHERE to point me toward a towing package for this ole' girl. I MADE MY OWN!







In addition to dragging the bikes to the rally, I had the opportunity to run "The Dragon" Rt 129 in North Carolina/Tennessee with the Ole' Girl!   What a heck of a lot of fun it was to drive this ole' machine through those twisties!   ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE I stopped with this machine I received significant looks, thumbs-ups, comments, and even folks taking photos of the machine.   People with significantly better quality (and higher value) machines were snubbed in favor of the Ole' T/A.   These machines sure do hold a place of love in the hearts of everyone.   Although several inquired, this T/A will NEVER be sold only transferred to children or grandchildren when I'm eventually too old to drive or maintain it.





The only PROBLEM I experienced during towing of the trailer was the quality of the OEM rear brakes.   My fronts have been upgraded to slightly better than stock with SS lines, drilled/slot rotors, new calipers, and higher quality pads.  However, the rear drums were not really up to the task of draggin' a trailer through the up/down mountains and twisites of the North Carolina mountains.   I'm looking to upgrade the rear to a higher quality disc set-up ASAP.   I'll be looking for some advice as I have multiple questions and concerns about some of the aftermarket offerings.

If anyone is truly interested in the hitch set-up I fabricated I'll post the photos and details.  However, I'd rather not waste the time if no one else is interested.

I'll be asking for some advice on those rear brakes.  I'm hopeful you'll be willing to provide some guidance?

Sincerely,
Kurt

[FormTA]

Hey, welcome back! I love the look of your car. Never owned a blue one before. Before the crash, I had a thread on trailer hitches for these cars as I wanted to tow a micro camper at one point.  There were aftermarket hitches available back in the day and I actually found one at one point.  They bolted to the rear crash bar but their towing capacity was limited. I have seen old adds showing these cars towing boats so there had to be other options out there.

As for the brakes, if you have the 17" snowflakes you can run the 4th gen rear disks. That is what I have on my LS swapped TA. They are awesome and stop the car on a dime. The feel is great too, just like a modern car. If you have stock size rims you can run the later S10 rear disks.  I am currently working on S10 axle and I will verify this for myself but many have said they fit.

Thanks for the pictures!

[kboehringer]

....SNIP .....  If you have stock size rims you can run the later S10 rear disks.  I am currently working on S10 axle and I will verify this for myself but many have said they fit.   >>>SNIP

Hi FormTA,
Thanks for the welcome back.   My T/A has the OEM 15' flakes so the 4th set-up is apparently out of the question.  I might try to find an S10 in the local pull-a-part to see how hard they are to find.

Does anyone have some input on STOCK WS6 Second Gen Rear Disc?  Is it worth chasing a used set-up?   OR, are the aftermarket kits superior?

My BIGGEST concern with the aftermarket set-up (Right Stuff Detailing RSD-AFXRD07S w/provision for parking/e-brake ~$700) is being stuck buying pads and rotors from this company in the future.  Being able to go to AutoZone, O'Reillys, or anywhere else for a set of pads may make the OEM 2nd Gen Set-up worth chasing?

Kurt

[5th T/A]

Beautiful Martinique Blue 78 TA, one of my favorites. The tail of the dragon sounds like a lot of fun. Something I have wanted to do for years.

Regarding your brake questions. Back in 1975 when I owned a 75 TA I installed a trailer hitch and would go camping with my friends StarCraft pop up camper. The camper weighed roughly 2100 pounds and I had no problems pulling or stopping the camper. But the camper was equipped with hydraulic surge brakes. My suggestion is no matter how you improve the braking performance of your car, consider adding brakes to your trailer (assuming it doesn’t already have them). It will give you an extra margin of safety. Especially during a pandemic stop,  helping you stop straighter and shorter.

[Wallington]

Good to see you back, Kurt.
Ben in Aus.

[scarebird]

Get the 1998-02 F setup.

[FormTA]

I have them on my car but I didn't think the stick 15 fit.? I can try it sometime as I have my stock wheels somewhere.

[rkellerjr]

hahaha, that is great! Welcome back partner!

[FormTA]

So here is a 2002 S10 rear end I'm restoring for another odd build I'm doing.  I really hope people appreciate this as I really had to dig through my parts stash to get to my original rims.

Here are how the fit the S10 rear disks.













So, they seem to fit fine. About a 1/4 of clearance and I'm sure there would be a way to attach the parking brake easily too.

[Wallington]

Good pics

[roadking77]

Welcome back. As an antique motorcycle enthusiast, I like what you did, LOL. Nice settup and I am sure you have the best tow rig wherever you go. My 77 had a trailer hitch when I bought the car. One of the first things I did was take it off and to the scrap yard. I saw some info a couple of years ago that showed what I had was a Pontiac accessory. I wish I had kept it after reading that!!
Def. a yes for trailer breaks, and to throw another wrench in the works, I know a fellow that put a third gen rear end in his car. Said it bolted right up. I would bet its very similar to the S10 one that Luke is using.

[FormTA]

I hear, the S10 brakes just bolt up to the Fbody axle. That way you don't have to change everything.

[kboehringer]

SNIP
I really hope people appreciate this
SNIP
So, they seem to fit fine. About a 1/4 of clearance and I'm sure there would be a way to attach the parking brake easily too.

Form TA - Thanks, It is appreciated all the trouble you went to in order to show this.   

I'm going over to the local pull-a-part today just to look around and see if there is anything there I can use.  Actually, I wouldn't purchase the calipers, rotors, hoses, or brake cables as this is like buying used underwear not at all appealing.   I'd prefer to just buy those parts new/rebuilt from one of the parts places like O'Reilly, Advance, Autozone, or my personal favorite all time RockAuto. 

In reality, I guess only need the misc. brackets and mounting plates.

Kurt

[FormTA]

You're absolutely right. The backing plate is the only real part you need. I did the exact same thing. Nothing is original on my setup at all.

[kboehringer]

The backing plate is the only real part you need.

TA Friends,
I was able to find a seller on Evil-Bay offering the basic parts.   The backing plates, calipers (really nasty) with the parking brake brackets, and couple small hardware items.   The seller was asking $600, but I offered 1/2 at $300 and he took the offer (I probably should have offered less).   The calipers look basically worthless but have the brackets for the parking brake cables, they'll get sent back to RockAuto as cores after the brackets are removed.

Several close friends questioned my preference for the OEM set-up vs. the complete aftermarket kits. My justification is that I didn't want to be tied to an aftermarket retailer than may or may not be in business a few years from now.  If I need brake pads, rotors, cables, etc. these items will likely be available at the local parts stores and RockAuto forever (or as long as I'm around).   Also, although my TA is certainly not anything like "Stock" all the major components are Pontiac/GM parts, I'd like to keep it OEM with the brake system.

I've already purchased new Drilled & Slotted Rotors, Brake Pads, New (rebuilt) Calipers, New Parking Brake Cables (L&R), and New Brake Hoses.    All items purchased from RockAuto and some of the parts have already arrived.   However, I know I'm going to be missing some of the mounting hardware (correct nuts & bolts) and maybe some other small items as well.     I hadn't ordered a replacement proportioning valve and suspect this will also need to be replaced with one specific to a Front Disc & Rear Disc set-up?

Once the used parts arrive from Evil-Bay, I'll determine if cleaning & paint is going to suffice or if I should have these backing plates powder coated.  Obviously, powder is better but may be a bit overkill for these and will certainly delay the completion of the upgrade.   I don't really drive this car too much but I am very anxious to feel the difference.... Hopefully it is significant?

It may be best to move this discussion over to the appropriate forum area?  I'll certainly need some additional pointers once this project gets to the actual disassembly & assembly phase.   I'll also look to see if there is an existing thread first as it is extremely likely others have made this upgrade.   Rather do the leg work looking around first than go the lazy route and ask others to repeat what they may have already provided to someone else.    I see this in my motorcycle forums daily where someone is too lazy to search or look around and then asks the same question others have asked and has been answered 20+ times.... Very Aggravating - I won't be "that guy"!

BR
Kurt

[rkellerjr]

The backing plate is the only real part you need.

.... Evil-Bay .....

Too funny Kurt.

[70_71_78]

Hey kboehringer! You stated-"I have gone off the deep end into my motorcycling hobby acquiring and restoring Vintage Yamaha Motorcycles." Are you interested in a Royal Star Tour Deluxe? 2009 V4-1300cc. Shaft drive. Electronic cruise control. Well maintained, perfect condition. Air adjustable suspension front and back, Smoothest ride I have ever had. Newer tires, but has been sitting a while, I wouldn't ride on them. Always changed oil at start of season with Yamaha oil and filter. Have aftermarket and stock seats. Bike looks like it just came out of the factory crate! I have not been able to ride for a few years, my hands just can't operate handle bar controls safely any more.
J

[kboehringer]

SNIP -  I have not been able to ride for a few years, my hands just can't operate handle bar controls safely any more.
J

Hi J,
I'm sorry to hear you are unable to ride anymore.  I get an enormous amount of pleasure & fun from my 2-wheel toys.   I'm hopeful to be riding many more years.  Currently age 60, I have a few friends in my circle of motorcycling friends that are still riding well into their 80's!!!

Unfortunately, my Club/Group/Hobby defines "Vintage" as 25 years or older.   Although I own one(1) modern motorcycle, a 2016 Yamaha FJR-1300, all the bikes in my collection (18+) are a minimum of 25 years old.  Actually, the next "newest" machine I own is a '92 FZR 1000, the oldest machine is from 1970.   

It sounds like a nice bike with a lot of preferred features (Electronic Cruise & Air Suspension).   If possible, delaying your sale until Spring would be the best option for the most $$$ as Spring is the peak time for sellers to while fall is the most favorable time for buyers of bikes.

Kurt

[70_71_78]

 - " If possible, delaying your sale until Spring would be the best option for the most $$$ as Spring is the peak time for sellers to while fall is the most favorable time for buyers of bikes.", Yea -not really. Been for sale for a couple of years, haven't been offered scrap prices for it, will probably scrap it in the next few weeks. When I do, I will take a sledge hammer to the engine case, If I can't get more than scrap for it, scrap it will be. Just tired of the BS.