Author Topic: Strange electrical problem  (Read 1855 times)

NY81TTASE

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Strange electrical problem
« on: November 17, 2022, 10:38:43 AM »
I decided to ask here because I don't want to  keep bothering a different forum member who actual tried helping me over the phone. He was very helpful but I know how hard it is over a phone and I feel horrible to keep asking.
Maybe someone here who really knows auto electric can shed some light.
I dont really need this fixed and I could also run a seperate ground wire to make it work but I'd like to troubleshoot  it.
   This is for a 1981 turbo trans am...and the circuit is for the turbo lights in the hood. The first light should go on when the key is turned.  I opened the original harness and tape to trace the ground out. It isnt run 100% like the factory schematic. 
The problem: checking the lights ground under the hood, I had no continuity to ground but with the key on I got 12v.
(The other two lights turn on using pressure switches but the simple circuit is the first light)
I have 2 youtube videos describing the problem if anyone wants to take a stab at what's going on.
Here is the first video:

https://youtu.be/Y2IAINxIGVo

Second video showing meter
https://youtu.be/YzTCY-hFKtY
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 07:16:46 PM by NY81TTASE »
1981 turbo trans am se

70_71_78

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2022, 04:53:28 PM »
??
It seems like you answered your own question. The hood, through the hinges, is not a good ground. That is why the ground wire is installed in the harness. If it is not a low resistance back to ground it will never work right! Why not replace that wire or that harness?

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2022, 07:10:10 PM »
The hood isn't involved. The light has a ground that I found shared with the park/neutral switch.  The ground wire has no continuity to ground anywhere. My question is why am I getting 12v on the ground wire and what would happen if I did connect it to ground with that 12v still on it.  I can be confusing.
1981 turbo trans am se

aussieta

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2022, 12:12:20 AM »
if i understand what you are describing
there will be 12v on the ground side if there is no current flow through the circuit
this is completely normal
if you are concerned for a test take a small fused wire and use that for your ground
you will now find ground after your light and light will illuminate
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2022, 06:43:05 AM »
Thanks, that sounds like a great idea. I never thought of testing with a fuse . I was concerned that if I connected that ground wire to ground and turned the key...that I would blow something or see the wires smoke up.
Plus, this whole time of testing I never had the light plugged in because it wouldn't turn on when connected. Unplugging it's harness and testing the connectors is how I saw 12v on the hot pin and 12v on the ground pin .
So I will put a fuse inline on the ground wire, connect it to ground, plug the light panel in and then turn the key.  Fingers crossed.   Thanks
1981 turbo trans am se

Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2022, 06:43:05 AM »

70_71_78

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2022, 12:25:03 PM »
OK, when looking at a circuit that is not complete, IE, no ground and therefore no current flow, you must keep in mind that your voltmeter is a very high impedance. This means that no work is being done by the load, (in this case lamp/lamps), when testing because the current is not really passing through the meter. A very very very small amount is, but is small enough to not really matter in this case. While in this state, to the meter, the intended ground side of the bulb/bulbs look just like the positive side of the battery so it will show 12 volts when referenced to ground. If the ground wire were intact and of a low resistance, the meter would show 0 volts because both sides of the meter are effectually connected to the negative side of the battery. If your meter is properly set up for and able to measure current in amps at a value high enough to operate the load, if tested without the completed ground side of the load and the negative lead of the meter is at the battery - terminal or some other grounded point, would show the current flow through the load and it, the load, would operate correctly. If the ground wire is intact you don't have a circuit with current flowing through the meter. Ammeters are a low impedance device and are fused to prevent damage to the meter, protecting them from an improperly configured test or a load that draws more current than the meter can flow. This is not considering the use of a clamp on ammeter that is intended to measure current flow in an operating circuit as they are not inserted into the circuit itself.

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2022, 02:31:06 PM »
I think I understand a little bit of what you're saying. When I first was testing and saw 12v, I was figuring what I was seeing was the power going through the p/n switch,  onto the black ground wire and then up to  my meter which was turning into the lamp because it was between the ground wire and a ground. Like the 12v had no place to go.
So, I should set my meter to amps and check for current?
This is what I'm using
1981 turbo trans am se

aussieta

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2022, 02:34:35 PM »
sorry did you have 12v on the ground wire with light unplugged
if you did then that is a different problem
as the positive could not have come from the ignition source through the globe
a little more investigation is required
but as before a 2a or similar fuse will blow before damaging anything else
do not test on amps or you may let the factory smoke out
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2022, 03:06:07 PM »
Yes. I was testing where the bulb harness with the harness disconnected.
I'm sure I found the source of the 12v on the ground wire.   By unplugging more connectors by the gas pedal area, I found that an orange/black wire with 12v from the computer went to the park neutral switch ( not the neutral safety switch). That switch has a black/white wire (ground) which has continuity back out under the hood to my connector.
Im not sure if you can see in the pic, bottom left park neutral switch.   Although my ground should not be part of that circuit.  It's says 450??     
1981 turbo trans am se

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2022, 03:16:45 PM »
This pic shows the main harness on the right (not concerned with)
The next red blob is the 3 wire harness I'm testing the ground at.   That ground connector has 12v with key on.

The next two are the pressure switches that just close under pressure and complete a circuit...im not concerned with them either
1981 turbo trans am se

aussieta

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2022, 04:05:18 PM »
at the three pin connector black/white wire is ground
other 2 are switched grounds depending on boost (ground side switched)
the dark green/yellow should be ground at low boost, your first light at ignition on
none of these 3 wires should ever show 12v when unplugged
plugged in black/white will always show ground
other 2 will show ground or voltage depending on boost state and ignition switch
somebody has mixed up the black/white wire with a different black/white wire
your boost black/white wire should go to the splice and then ground
follow the black/white wire as far as you can and the repair the circuit or make a new ground
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2022, 05:13:44 PM »
That's what I did. I traced it all around, opened the harness tape, traced the factory splices. The only spot a black/white is not connected is in the area above the number 3 spark plug...hanging in the breeze. I can easily run a seperate ground just for the lights.  Then that leaves the park neutral switch with no ground.  Like in the videos
1981 turbo trans am se

aussieta

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2022, 06:41:07 PM »
the park neutral black/white wire goes to the splice above aldl socket in diagram
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2022, 07:10:26 PM »
I'll check there tomorrow.   There was only one extra black/white wire I couldnt follow but it seemed to go behind the radio area. I couldn't get my hands in there
1981 turbo trans am se

Wallington

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2022, 08:04:00 PM »
They look like they are all black wires....

Do you have the original Service Manual in book form, not a scan on cd?

I just uploaded several colour pages from another 1981 Firebird wiring diagram before realising it doesn't look like it has the turbo hood option on it. I can still send if you didn't have much else for rest of car.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 08:12:37 PM by Wallington »

Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2022, 08:04:00 PM »

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2022, 08:49:20 PM »
All I have is the service manual from 78ta site.  The wires definitely are black with white stripe.  I'd love to get the book though...all the pics are horrible in the scanned version
1981 turbo trans am se

aussieta

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« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 11:50:27 PM by aussieta »
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

Wallington

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2022, 10:41:30 PM »
Aaah nice one, I was just uploading a few pages of the 1980 Assembly now. Saved me time, thanks. Good diagram and part info too.

Marc, sent you a PM of unrelated wiring diagrams too. Also, did you have the 1980 Assembly manual?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 10:46:19 PM by Wallington »

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2022, 02:02:19 AM »
Yes i have the 80 assembly manual. Also the turbo light schematic from above. The problem lies further down the circuit not pictured there.  I will try to look again at the car tomorrow
1981 turbo trans am se

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2022, 11:37:41 AM »
No news yet, life threw a curveball  and a monkey wrench at me this past weekend. I will try to get to the car.
1981 turbo trans am se

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2022, 05:59:37 PM »
Ok...I used a wire with an inline 5 amp fuse and connected one end to the battery neg and the other end to the black/white wire that was swinging in the breeze.  I turned the key and the fuse didn't blow.  I plugged in the turbo light panel and I got the first bulb to light up!!!   Bingo!
   I'm not really sure if connecting that unattached wire was the way to go so I'm going to repair it but I will leave the fuse just in case something goes wrong.
Thanks guys for all your help!
1981 turbo trans am se

NY81TTASE

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Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2022, 10:50:24 AM »
There's the  "normal"  light
1981 turbo trans am se

Re: Strange electrical problem
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2022, 10:50:24 AM »
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