84 301T

[tajoe]

(OK, let's see if we can get off pg 4)
Nothing complicated here, but a lot nicer than if I were to whack it out with a hammer and chisel. (It's aluminum)


We all knew the bolts would be angled too, but I'll get some 3/8ths tapered bushings, (or make some). I hear they're available, but haven't looked into where yet. Grainger? MSC?
Below you'll see how much affect there is on the height of the mount to crossmember.


Once again, this is with the shifter mount flush with the opening in the tunnel.

I really have no idea where the tailshaft should be relative to the crossmember. I wish I knew of someone who had a 3rd gen/T5, that could give me a clue. As it sits, I could go up higher by an inch, but it would put the shifter plate in the console. Is that wrong? If I drop it an inch, then the pocket on the crossmember will need to be even deeper. Should it? I'm not sure if the automatic, to manual 3rd gen crossmembers are different. This one is from the TH700. Maybe I can see it in the photos of me dropping the 700. I'll have-ta go looking.

[tajoe]

So I wuz able to dig thru some older photos, and found this one I took before taking anything apart. And it looks pretty promising, in that the tailshaft is higher in the tunnel, compared to closer to the crossmember.


Well, not really a good comparison. Pictures aren't right, but the top one you can see the mount build-up on the TH700.
I don't think I'll need-ta drop the tranny any lower, so now I'll need-ta make a pocket for it to sit in. Or should it go higher?
I'll have-ta research some more on the brand X site, and see if anyone has any photos of the tails height location.

[ryeguy2006a]

That wedge looks great, nice work. I can't wait to get my mill fired up to be able to do projects like this. 

What I did on both my Trans Am and Camaro when building mounts and setting up the engine/trans combo was to get a measurement on the angle of the motor. The goal is to have the engine/trans tilted down 3-4* to match the pinion angle of the rear end. However on a Third gen, you may want to see what the angle of your pinion is and match the engine angle. I would almost guess it would be less given that you have a much nicer rear suspension setup than us on leaf springs.

[tajoe]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm trying to configure a plate to weld to the bottom of my crossmember. I hacked off something from a piece of 1/4" thick, 3" square tubing, but it's not fitting like I want yet. It appears by the height of the TH700 tailhousing, (where the bottom of the rear seal is), is about a little less than 4" off the crossmember. (Maybe 3+7/8ths). In the photos above, mine is only 3", so I cranked it up almost an inch, which'll put the bottom of the mount "almost" flush with the bottom channel of the crossmember. So my plan is to get this plate to fit, and weld it on, and then maybe look at the torque arm mount. I'm still hoping I'll be able to use the existing 3 bolt mount pad on the tailhousing, even tho it's tilted. Just need-ta square it up. Was thinkin maybe using those offset bushings behind the plate (?)

[tajoe]

Had a trying day in the garage this afternoon. It's difficult for me cutting steel stock, W/O good equipment, such as a plasma cutter, or even a metal bandsaw. I had tried a piece of thickwall square tubing days ago, but after more time invested than I wanted, I had-ta scrap it, and try something else. After digging deeply into my pile of....junk, I found a slab of 1/4" stock, that I cut a piece to size. Then I tack welded it into place.  But because it's butted to the bottom of the channel iron looking crossmember, I'm not confident enuff with my welding capabilities, and seeing the load of the back of the eng. and tranny will be resting on it, I'll bring it to work, and have one of the professionals do it.


Once I get it back, I'll clean it up, and put some color to it. Still nursing my injured knee from 2 weeks ago. Has slowed me down a bit, and it doesn't help i have-ta be on my feet most of the day at work. Oh well, the pitfalls of getting older.

[tajoe]

Haven't forgotten about you guys, just been pretty busy. Here's the crossmember, and it installed. The welder in work did such a nice job with the tig. I'll post more tomorrow, when I get a chance. Lots to show. Here's a taste.

[MNBob]

That weld looks smooth and strong.  So now you have the whole rear mount thing done and on to other things!

[tajoe]

(Hi Bob, I was just in the middle of this post, when I wuz notified of yours. Thanks )
So, as far as the mount goes, (with the exception of acquiring the angled bushings/washers for the mount bolt heads), I think I'm satisfied where I'm at, and began looking at the torque arm mounting. I could've sworn someone here (maybe scarebird?) commented on the differences on that mount. Some rubber bushings accept a torque arm facing passenger side, and some are molded to the drivers side. I'm referring to the way the end of the torque arm is captured between the rubber in the clamp.

 The newly acquired T5 had the F-body torque arm clamp already bolted to it, so I "tried" to install it to the "mule" T5 currently under the car. After bolting the new crossmember to it, and in place, ( as my luck would have it), the bracket for the torque arm "can't" be installed, unless you drop the tranny back down. (Which I had-ta do). Once in place, this is what it looked like

Notice the shape of the cut-outs in the rubber. It's "backwards" from the T/A that I have . (Naturally). So I went to the original TH700, and pulled the mount from it, to maybe see if it'll fit. (Of course not)

You can see the mount plate doesn't even come close to the mount bosses on the tail housing. So somehow I need-ta figure a way of reversing the rubber in the T5 mount. I'll also need to see if I can find the thread where some-one had already discussed this, but I've forgotten where.

[tajoe]

Another night sidetracked from garage duties. Spent my free time, (the past 2 nights) looking for a lost earing for my daughter, who dropped it, and it took off into nowhere land. Almost to the point of opening up walls. 

But I have been researching the above concern with the torque arm mount, and don't think it'll be a big deal, once I commit myself to it. In the interim, I've also been dabbling with not only the front of the 301T accessories, but the mech. clutch system. I'm ecstatic that I found all those parts, and was trying to figure a way to make the factory linkage fit the BOP bell. I have the 3rd gen fork, which has a slight (favorable) bend, that the Pontiac TOB fork doesn't have. I'll post more details on it later, but will say I was contemplating reworking the BOP bell by lowering the pivot ball (for the fork, in the B/H), when I was informed, (from a brand X forum), that there was a "common" bell housing used in 1982 (only), that had not only the dropped clutch fork pivot ball, but a "uni-bell" bolt pattern!! Not just for the chebby motor, but the BOP.  One that I just found on the net, and will have it in a few days.
 
I wuz trying to come up with a way of Mickying the ball in one of my BOP bells, trying to figure the exact  place to relocate it, and will it interfere with the ribbing, or lower bolt hole, and open up, and trim away the casting material where the fork protrudes from,  But I decided just now, I'll pay the cash, and get the right one. Save me that much more screwing around.

[FormTA]

That's a great find! I had no idea those existed.

[ryeguy2006a]

That is a really good find! What's the part number for that bell?

[tajoe]

Howdy men,
The P/N for the bell is 14037657, (natch a GM #), and was kindly supplied by a member on the other site. I've never seen one, and have scowered many bone yards and swap meets in over 40 yrs of this hobby, and didn't know it existed either. I do still have in my stash, a TH200R4 from a 86 Chevy wagon, with an Olds 307 motor, and it also has a uni-bell. First time I ever saw one. Guess it was an 80s GM thing. Don't know how many were made, but I'll bet the 82 bell is getting scarce. and I wuz just informed, it will be arriving tomorrow.
Now to get back out there, and play with the torque arm clamp. And by the way, has anyone heard of a "bevel" washer? Or a radius washer? They're made to take up minor angle imperfection, and that's what I need under the bolt heads of the tranny mount. I acquired a couple bevel washer today, and will see how they fit. (Pics to come). But I kinda like the style of the radius ones I was shown, but haven't gotten them the right size.

[tajoe]

It's a Sat., and I've needed to fell a tree in my backyard, (for over a yr), and am just getting around to it. But all wasn't perfect, I wasn't confident, got distracted, and then...the uni-bell showed up, so the tree can wait. Decided to show you guys some pics, before I continue.

The photo above shows the basic uni-bell, but I wanted to show the differences between "it", and a regular BOP bell. Wanted to know where not only the fork pivot ball location is, but the hole for the fork lever to protrude. Hopefully these will help some-one.

And the fork above is from a 3rd gen, (chevy), and can you see the bend in the lever? I don't have a second gen one at this time to lay out, but it doesn't hardly bend at all. That bend would help clear the floor pan in the 3rd gen, if you ended up using the original BOP bell, and not relocate the fork piot. Not sure what it'll look like, till I get all in place.

One "potential" problem I see is the relief casting for the nose housings of the starter. The "bulges" in the uni-bell, are a bit smaller, (about 1/2 the size) than the original. I hope it doesn't lead to a starter issue. Worst case scenario, I'll need-ta open them up. They're just covers for the starter anyway.

 In the clutch linkage photos below, you'll notice the Z bar in place. I need one missing bracket that attaches to the frame side, so currently it's just laid in place. The "S" shape of the tube is needed to clear the floor pan, unlike the 2nd gens, (and everything else for the past 50 yrs). To this day, I don't understand those designers reasoning. It's got to do with the eng. set so far back, into the tunnel.

Also, amazingly, the link going to the pedal, has a bend in it, and it actually fits into the thru hole I cut for the hyd. master cylinder. I'm happy about that, but can see how the design is inferior, due to all those bends, and the unwanted stress in operation. Fortunately the travel is minimal.

And to conclude this lengthy post, pics below are for you to see the clearance issue to the floor, with the clutch fork lever location, in the BOP bell. Very close. With the new bell, it'll be 1" lower, and will not only clear that, but maintain the correct factory geometry. If you look hard enuff you'll see the lower lever is a bit "beat-up", and will need some attention.

And that's all for now folks. Was wondering about the  placement of the photos side by side, or stacked. Any preferences?
Hmmm. Looks like they'll be stacked anyway.

[tajoe]

Had it out with the torque arm tonight, and altho it wasn't fun, I'ld call it a draw. 1st time battling with that ridiculous component, and it was a tough learning curve. Not easy when it's just one person, 2 arms, hands, and 1 foot.

The goal was to try and see if the rubber could be reversed, because of the difference in the two mounts. The original TH700 TA, (torque arm) was facing the pass. side, and the other mount that came with the newer T5, was facing the other way. Below is the newer T5 mount, (backwards).

I removed the rivets securing the rubber mount to each bracket. Once apart, I learned you can't just replace them to the opposite bracket, and expect the holes for the rivets to line up. They're backwards..(duh)

I tried removing the rubber from its metal backing plate with a razor knife, (mistake) to maybe glue it back on the right way. Once I got one side, (the outer bracket) rubber off, I saw how I screwed up because any of my glues wouldn't be strong enuff to hold it thru the perils and road abuse it would incur in daily operations. So I left the larger main one still connected to its own backing plate. In the photo below, the rubber is installed in the right direction, but not secured yet. Just for testing purposes.

The main battle came, while installing it back on the car. Trying to pry the upward loaded TA down, and to the side, to make room for the rubber mount, (which needed to be slid into place, from the frt) was a major test of patience. I lost it on that one.
But after multiple attempts, and many newly invented 4 letter designations, I finally got it. Probably about a 1/2 hr to get the rubber halves in place. 


I believe what I'll end up doing, is removing the rubber fillers, (from the TH700 mount) "and" leaving their backing plates intact, and re-riveting them to the newer T5 brackets, then it'll all be fine. And once the rubber is facing the right way, I'll move onto figuring how to mount the bracket to the tailhousing. You can see it above, how the end of the TA is twisted in the mount, because of the tilted tranny.
 

[tajoe]

 "2nd verse, same as the 1st".
Nothing more than a repeat from the previous post, with the exception that the rubber pads are from the TH700, and fit the brackets of the T5.
Found that chistling the heads off the retaining rivets from yesterday, isn't as easy as you'ld think. They're made of Kryptonite, and squashed in very tight. So tonite, I used the drill press on the rivets, to at least weaken them. They still were resistant, but not as bad as yesterday.

Once they were removed, they fit right onto the T5 mounting brackets, like intended. This time, facing the right direction. Below they're the ones marked in yellow, and all the surroundings are the left-overs from the TH700 brackets, mixed with the backwards T5 rubber.

And once back under the car, and everything bolted tighter, the fit of the TA to the rubber grommets, altho still twisted, not so bad. I think when I bolt it together at final, I'll remove the spacers on the lower bracket bolts, and add them to the upper bolt area, which will tilt it back straight.

And if you remember my dilemma with the BOP bell, and the clutch fork hitting the floor pan, (almost), before I can fiangle the 3rd gen Z-bar levers, I need-ta get the uni-bell in place, to line everything else, which means, pull the 455 M/T block, and drop in the 301T, (with the flywheel clutch and uni-bell), to the T5 in the car. And the fun continues.

[tajoe]

Spent a night cleaning the garage, (yesterday), and ended up tearing it apart...again... tonight. Frantically searching for a missing alt/P/S bracket. Know I had it, (30 yrs ago), can't find it now. Found some similar ones, but not the right one. Not that I need it right now, to test fit the eng., just when I get focussed with 1 thing, I hate leaving it incomplete. I've been piecing the accs. together for a few days here and there, and getting closer. Below is the aluminum bracket, which bolts to the drivers side head.


The top photo looks better than the condition of my eng. right now. (Neither are mine) The bottom one looks 20 times better. Wish I could find that mount bracket.
 Totally forgot to say how much time I spent a couple days ago unburying my "serviceable" clutch stash, looking to mock it up  when installing the 301T eng. Already have the 301 flywheel, but needed a pressure plate, and disc. After digging out 6 flywheels, (including a V-6 Buick one, and a chebby), and 2 diaphragm pressure plates, of course both were 11", and the 301 is a 10 1/2. Guess I'll be springing for a new clutch, (which I would be buying later anyway.) I can't believe what they get for them now. It doesn't seem that long ago, they were $25 for each, pressure plate and disc. TOB? $10. Pilot brg? $2.

[tajoe]

I guess basically, this has become my diary. So be it.

I wuz fortunate enuff to find an alt/p/s bracket off the net, and says it won't be arriving for a couple weeks. So much for focussing on accessory installs. And now comes the time to get the flywheel sand blasted and cleaned up, and finding a clutch for it. I'll get some pics up for those of you who care. Today I have a tree to drop, and cut up, and 2 tons of anthracite to unload off my tuck and trailer and store. So garage fun will be waiting a bit. 
P.S. This is a long page 5, no?

[FormTA]

I like diaries!

[tajoe]

LOL. I did one years ago, on another forum for coal stoves. Still gets lots-a peeks. 

[tajoe]

Good news, I hear that we have some rain in the forecast for the next few days. Meaning my back yard outside duties will be put on hold, and can justify more garage work. I'll have-ta scope out the locals, and see if I can get a new clutch for this car, and because I have an entire weeks vacation off-a work, I should be able to get the 301T between the fenders. See what kind of clearance issues with the exhaust, (I'm curious about the down pipe, and crossover), and maybe get more info on the clutch linkage. More to come.

[wheels78ta]

I like diaries!

Same here.  And pics are always welcome.

[tajoe]

Plenty more to come. Photobucket will be busy this year.  (Hope my computer doesn't run outta space.) 

[tajoe]

Was fortunate enuff to find a local parts store with a clutch kit for my application. (Almost)
 How bout this. A 3200 LB, Ram clutch, to handle all the power this mighty 301 turbo motor can deliver.
.
 Looks good, right? In reality, it's nothing more than a stock replacement NAPA kit. Less than a buck fifty. I just painted it red, to "look" cool. LOL. Hey, if the kids can do it to their brake calipers, then why can't I? Wish I could've found a temporary fill-in for the mock-up, but my junk pile (below) just didn't cooperate. All my leftovers PP's are for 11" clutches.


 Did clean up the 301 externally balanced flywheel I purchased used about 8 yrs ago. Now to search for some flywheel fasteners. (And a starter...for fitting)
Lost another battle with my accessory brackets. Found that the alt. bracket I had, "wasn't" fiting the 301, so the search continues. See a bunch on the net, for more $ than I wanna spend, if I could only find the originals.

[MNBob]

Not that I need it right now, to test fit the eng., just when I get focussed with 1 thing, I hate leaving it incomplete.

Just like me!

The red color looks great and makes it stronger.

[tajoe]

The red color looks great and makes it stronger.

Funny stuff Bob. That red kinda matches the red in my 73 avatar.

I've about giving up looking for them brackets. Gunna have-ta buy from the net. 
Spent countless hrs ripping thru sheds, and boxes, inside and out. Even went thru a steel rack in my garage "again", this time looking for those brackets. No dice. At least it's organized...again. In the pic below, in the corner of my garage, you can actually see the the floor. 1st time in yrs.
(The orange braced metal rack is the next one to organize, but it'll take "months".)

The 301 has been sitting there, forever, waiting for now. I made room in frt of the 84, and am finally getting to prep the 301 for lifting in. Still would like to get the starter found, and on it. Guess I could put it in from underneath. Think I'll prop up the T5, which is still installed, and install the eng to it, rather than vice versa. Will I be able to engage to the input to the clutch? With the mounts, and brackets loose...maybe?

That motor sure is grungy, ain't it? And what's up with NAPA? Went to buy some eng. degreaser, (Gunk, or Gumout), and they say they can't get any.

[tajoe]

"And the band plays on". (Temptations)

What a day. But another step accomplished. Got the 301T in between the fenders, and the T-5 installed too. Wasn't pretty, and it still isn't, but it does look promising. Started off leaving all the externals on, but when beginning to lower it in, needed to start stripping down, for clearance reasons. Talk about a shoe-horn fit.

By the way, the uni-bell? Doesn't work. Fits the block, but only when there's no flywheel. Hits on the bottom, and won't allow dowel engagement...by about 1/2 an inch. Not the end of the world. At least I can use it as a Polish blue-print for the fork location. Then up for sale.

1st removed the clutch fan, and lower crossover pipe, because of the eng. set-back past the firewall, the pipe would've hit the K-frame whilst lowering it in.
And also for the knowing, there was no way to mate the eng. to the tranny, cause the input shaft was too far fwd, and also prevented lowering the eng. past the K-frame. So out came the T5. (darn torque arm.) This is when I envy the 70-72 Monte Carlo owners. Tons of room under the hood.


 Played around lining up the lower frame mounts, and ran into problems with the rear carb connection, hitting the wiper motor. (Eh. Who needs wipers?) So off came the QJ. Once the carb was off, got the mount holes lined up with some bolts loosely installed. Back under the car to install the T5. For those of you who have done this, isn't it a great feeling when it finally slips into the pilot brg? Loved it.

And once all was snugged up, I could release the chain fall, and lower the car back to Earth. 'Amazingly"!!!, the Z-bar installed itself. I left it connected to the pedal link, and just moved it back, when lowering the eng. in. Once done, I looked up, and there it was, sitting on the ball. It's super close to the exhaust manifold, but looks like it'll work. 

Hard to see in that photo, but you can see how the bent fork gives a bit more pan clearance. (Up on post 172, you can see the difference) Wondering about reworking the floor a 1/2" for the necessary room.
So much for this session. Think it's long enuff. Don't wanna trip the reset on the puter. More to follow, tomorrow. OFN.

[FormTA]

Man you are really making some great progress! It's early as I read this but if the uni-bell doesn't fit with the flywheel then how did you slipp the trans in to the pilot bearing?

[ryeguy2006a]

Wow Joe, great progress. I'm still here reading along! I don't always post, but I'm definitely here waiting for the next update. I'm living through you until I can get my own project haha.

[tajoe]

Morning Luke, (And also RG, just saw your post as I wuz typing) Are we still on page 5? Talk about long winded.

In the photos above, you can see I used the original BOP bell, not the uni-bell. The Pontiac flywheel/flexplate ring gear diameter,  is 14", tip to tip of the tooth. The 84 T/A chebby 305 ring gear is only a foot, plus a  1/2". I also found in my stash, a flexplate with a 13.5 ring gear, and think it might be from a Buick V6. (70s era). And contrary to popular belief, the 301 flywheel is not smaller diametrically, but does only have a 10.5 clutch, not an 11", like all the late 70s T/As. I also measured the diameter of a chevy truck flywheel from 1980, and it was big, like the Pontiac, even a fraction larger. So it just goes to show, not all GM ring gears are the same. And the uni-bell? Wasn't intended for a 1982 301 TA install. Curious what it was designed for.

As for sliding the tranny into the pilot, no different from any other install. Altho when I slid the new bronze pilot brg onto the input shaft of the WC tranny on the bench, it was a line to line fit. No play at all. Was wondering about catching it under the car. And it took a bit of wiggling, and wobbling of the back of the tranny, to finally get it to drop in. Unfortunately, I'll have to do it again, for real, at the end of this project. Now to put together some more pics of yesterdays outing.

[tajoe]

And here she sits, in all its (dirty, filthy) glory. LOL

I  love the fact the QJ will be "directly" under the power bulge. Can we actually call this a Ram Air motor?  (Guess with the turbo, it kinda is)
Anyway, the RHS of the compartment isn't so bad, now that the A/C evaporator is gone. The manifolds just barely fit in, but the down pipe will need some "massaging" underneath. You can see how it won't reach the turbo.

The drivers side is a bit more crowded. The exhaust manifold fits fine, it's the top of the turbo/carb manifold, that shoves everything against the firewall. I believe the brake booster will have clearance, just tight to the wiper motor. Curious about the air cleaner to hood clearance.


And at the frt of the motor, it appears the radiator and shroud will be OK too.

And today, more rain. Almost 3 days straight, on my vacation. Like I said, gives me more justification to be in the garage, and not yard work. This is the mess I left, waiting to be cut-up, and hauled away.

Now to get the car up in the air, and see how the driveshaft fits, and the continuation of the mechanical clutch linkage. 

[scarebird]

What part of the flywheel does the unibell hit - the ring gear or the main body?

[tajoe]

The very bottom SB. Maybe I could cut off a piece, and make it look like the inspection hole on the bottom of the BOP bells, but I really don't wanna cut it up. I mention before how the bullnoses for the starters, (one on each side) are half the size of the BOP bells, so would that cause a problem too? Don't know, and at this point' ain't gunna find out. I'm pretty sure I can make the BOP bell work.

[scarebird]

I was thinking more relieving the flywheel with a bevel.

You may also bevel the opening to clear with a coarse grit belt sander.  Moving the clutch fork pivot does not fill me with confidence - that being the fulcrum and under constant loading,

[tajoe]

Way too much material to remove SB. When I caught one dowel in the bell, and pivoted the bell on it, trying to bring it up to the other side dowel, it wouldn't come close. Almost an inch away. At least 1/2 an inch. Like I said above, the 305 ring gear is a full inch and a half smaller.

I had the same concern with the fork pivot ball too. But if you think of it, when you press the pedal, the fork is being pressed against the ball, not pulling or twisting. Kinda shoving it into the frt of the tranny case. And the location can be off by an 1/8th or so, because of the push rod from the Z bar. I can get pretty close, with this uni-bell as a blueprint.

But I'm hoping the fork will clear the floor pan, (or I'll make clearance), so I can use it as is. The only concern is the leverage factor of being closer to the Z bars lower lever push rod hole, and the distance it'll travel. Playing with some geometry here, but once again, it can be worked out.

And before I get back under the car, I decided to put the hood back on, and get the car washed of all the accumulated dirt it's collected since being in the garage. Got a taste of the power bulge hood system, and factory air cleaner housing, and the limited clearance there. I also stuck in the radiator, shroud, and brake booster, to see those issues. Very tight there too. (air cleaner to wiper motor, and master cylinder). Trying not to go to an aftermarket air cleaner, if I can help it. More pix coming.

[tajoe]

Looks like a custom fabbed cold air system will be needed, or a heavily modified stock set-up. This is what the pan looks like and the factory 80 air cleaner housing, with the 84 top. (which has the cold air hole sealed to the top). Amazingly, Looks like it would've lined up, now that the top is rotated 180° from original.



And this is a shot with the air cleaner assy on, but the hood won't close, stripped of all the pan and guts.

With the air cleaner off, and no plastic pan under the hood, this is what it looks like to the carb.


About 4" from the bottom of the hood, to the carb flange for the filter housing. Finding a dropped housing from a vette, or something similar won't work, cause there's too many components to interfere under it.
Not a big surprise, and will deal with it more in the future. Just wanted to see where it was at. At least the QJ is centered under the hood bulge, and looks good there. One of the main reasons I'm doing this swap. Next, is get it in the air, and get under it.

[kentucky yeti]

Your patience is amazing!

[ryeguy2006a]

Joe, you are making so much forward progress I love it!! I think the fact that it's close is what is key. Is there anyway to modify where the intake that the carb bolts in order to gain some clearance? Or possibly put the air cleaner in the stock plastic piece in the hood?

[tajoe]

Your patience is amazing!

LOL. Sarcasm will get you everywhere Mike. But thanks if you're serious. 

Joe, you are making so much forward progress I love it!! I think the fact that it's close is what is key. Is there anyway to modify where the intake that the carb bolts in order to gain some clearance? Or possibly put the air cleaner in the stock plastic piece in the hood?

Close? I don't know RG, I've got a "LONG" way to go. But like you said, at least we're moving in the right direction. Figuring out the snags is the hard part. The rebuild will be easier. I appreciate the input from you guys.

As for lowering or modifying the plenum that the carb is on, it's kinda like a tunnel ram. All cast aluminum, in a particular shape, that machining down is way past my skills. But I do like your idea, of modifying some of the air cleaner pan and filter.

I already had-ta trim the back of the stock 80 T/A base housing where it was hung up on the wiper motor. Might have-ta do that next to the master cylinder too. And I think when I shut the hood, with the plastic pan above removed, and just the base of the air cleaner installed, the hood would hit the frt of the housing. (Because of the rake in the hood design) If I can trim that down some, and the filter element isn't too tall, maybe a can use a flat piece of sheet metal, or cut down a smaller diameter top, (from say a 2bbl), to hold the filter down. Then it would be totally open, around the filter element, "inside" the stock housing, sort-ta like the look of the shaker on the 2nd gen. And then take the plastic pan from above, (which is mostly flat and enclosed, with a small 4" opening), and open it up fully to allow the stock diameter base housing to seal against it. Maybe, maybe ,maybe. LOL. just talking out loud right now, but I'll get back to it, in a few.

Right now, it's the 1st day I've seen the sun since the beginning of my vacation. I now have a ton of tree branches and brush to collect, (hopefully it's not too wet), and truck it over to the dump. But B4 that, right now, I need-ta call Joe at TTA, and get his advice on the little 301. Back soon.

[tajoe]

Didn't get anything done on the car today, (yard clean-up), but did have an interesting discussion with Joe at TTA performance this morning. He's been on the 301 garage for quite some time, (think he was an administrator), and is super knowledgeable on this engine. He's the man to see, now that the garage is closed. He gave me some great advice concerning mods, and tuning, and will be very instrumental, and key to my build. Can't wait to get into it.

[kentucky yeti]

Did Joe say why the site closed down?