84 301T

[tajoe]

That's one possibility SB, and I thank you for the idea, but I think I'll just drill new holes in the K-frame.
The saving grace, is the factory 84 rubber frame mounts, (being 4" in length) fit the factory 301 brackets perfectly. Just need to make new holes, W/O making plates, welding or cutting. And I believe what you're saying about the other holes being for the 2 other engs seem logical. I was hoping/dreaming that maybe a few of them would fit the Poncho, but nothing ever goes that easy in my life anyway. And from all the other 3rd gen/Pont. V8 installs, they too mentioned mounting issues.
But I seem to recall a 301T installation from an individual saying his mounts fit, but I don't remember the details. It was years ago. But I know where I'm at now, and hope to continue fwd. Thanks again for the comments.

[scarebird]

...but nothing ever goes that easy in my life
 hotrodding anyway.

 if it was easy girls would be doing it   wifeclobberingme.gif

Here is a pic of the 2 different mounting setups - the clamshells are there for a P400

[tajoe]

Even tho we're looking at a 2nd gen subframe, the hole patterns shown make sense. The upper holes not being used, are probably for the sbc. The mounts for the 3rd gen (Pont.) will need to go back an inch, and down the same amount. So your photo confirms what my measurements are telling me. Nice photo. Thanks.

[tajoe]

It was a bit of a challenge, but I was able to get the mounts off, with "mostly common" hand tools, W/O removing the A arms. The pita top fwd bolts, which has the nuts buried inside the K-frame, i thought would be impossible. But the rear upper was accessable by reaching in with an open/box end, (15MM), and the fwd one was a bit trickier. Even tho you can't see it, if you have an extended combination wrench, you can feel it, to hold. took about a half hr to get the mounts off. Then I drug out the 455 block, and removed the 301 mount brackets, and installed them to the 455. Then I placed the rubber mounts from the 84 into those brackets, and am having a minor clearance issue. Ran outta time, but will continue tomorrow...maybe.


Sorry the block photo is sideways. Can't figure out how to flip it on PB.
(Nothing can be easy)

[scarebird]

Are the oil pans the same?

Are you going to blast it with a waterjet and paint?

[ryeguy2006a]

Is there a way to hole saw two small holes just large enough for a wrench to fit in on the back side of the frame so that you could just slip the wrench in and tighten? It shouldn't compromise the integrity of the frame any.

[tajoe]

Are the oil pans the same?
Are you going to blast it with a waterjet and paint?

Are the oil pans the same? That's a good question. I believe all Pontiac pans are considered equal, but I never needed a reason to compare. Now I do. (Maybe)
And (LOL), I plan on cleaning everything up, when assy begins. Right now, I'm just fitting pieces together, with the intent of detailing later. I don't wanna spend my precious time scrubbing, only to find, the combo won't fit. (I'm pretty sure it'll all go, but I'm usually wrong).

Is there a way to hole saw two small holes just large enough for a wrench to fit in on the back side of the frame so that you could just slip the wrench in and tighten? It shouldn't compromise the integrity of the frame any.

Not sure which post you're referring to, but in my last one, I was able to do exactly that. Didn't need-ta drill any holes, (tho that was a thought of mine too). Stuck an extra long combo wrench deep inside the existing hole as pictured above , (the middle picture, on reply #38) and was able to grab the nut on an angle, and ratchet the bolt off from the top. It was a bit trying, but beats dropping the A-frame and spring. Problem is, I just ordered a replacement spring compressor, that I now don't need. But it didn't cost that much, and will come in handy, in the future, (maybe)
.
Now I'll be back at it, getting the other eng. bracket off the 301, and onto the 455 block, to fit the rubber mounts. They appear to be protesting a bit, when I try to position them on the angle that they sit on, in the frame. Or at least the drivers side is. Not sure about the other side. Will keep ya posted.

[tajoe]

Yuk. Running into some snags.
84 rubber frame mounts, to Pontiac eng. brackets fit onto each-other. But the long horizontal locating bolt holes are in a different position from each other. Making the Pontiac eng. sit a bit higher on the mounts. But before I can see what needs to be done, I need to get the passenger side 301T bracket off the engine. the drivers side came off ....simply. The passenger side 301T bracket top bolt, is buried behind the rhs exhaust manifold. Which happens to have a pipe from the turbo on it. 13 bolts total, exhaust bolts. With 150K miles on them. That have been sitting in the garage, for about 30 yrs. Which will require gobs of oxy-acetylene to try and get them out. W/O breaking them in the manifold. (Which are rare as hens teeth). So it won't be tonite. Chores to do after work tomorrow, so guess it'll be the week-end. Here's some ugly pics to see what I'm up against. Sorry, they look like crap, but they should, for what they are. 

[FormTA]

Don't take it off. Find someone who has an extra one laying around.

[tajoe]

Well Luke, the pipes and manifold will have-ta be removed at some point in time, during the rebuild, so it might as well be now. I'm making lots of free time for this, this up-coming week-end, so I hope to show some better progress. Maybe even a 3 day week-end.
By the way, notice the black stripes on the bottom photo above? That's my digital camera shutters sticking. (No phone for me). Something else to be aware of, when picture taking.

[tajoe]

*There is a conclusion to this long post, (at the bottom), if you choose to bypass the gory details*

I had to remove almost 20 exhaust system bolts, and nutted studs, just to get at that 1 mount bolt, on the RHS. Both ends of the turbo pipe, and also the cross-over pipe under the pan. Even with the oxy/acet. I still had 5 casualties. After this many yrs of them being together, they all fought me tooth and nail. But I finally was able to remove the RHS manifold, and unbolted the  mount bracket, to fit it to the 455 template block. And this is how the pairs went together.

It wasn't a very rewarding day. It didn't surprise me the frame mounts would need relocating, but I was really optimistic that the upper and lowers would fit. And they "do" fit, onto each other, but unfortunately, there are some unforeseen problems.  2, to be exact.

In the photo above, you'll notice the extreme angle error of the mounts. Pretty flat. They need to be tilted on more of an angle for the K-frame, but the clearance between the uppers and lowers, don't allow enuff rotation on the long horizontal bolts. In that photo, the bottom mounts are twisted as far up as they will go. But there is an interference shown in the lower photo. The white arrows show the point of contact.

"Maybe" I could trim off some material, to gain some rotation, but don't know if it'll be enuff, and do I really wanna hack up those turbo 301 brackets? Even if I did, there is still a second concern.

If you can picture a centerline of the holes for the horizontal mount bolts, and that dimension relative to the pan rail, you can see that the 305 eng. brackets have those holes at least in line with the pan rail, or even "above" it a little. Below is a photo of that bracket on the 305.
The top picture in this post, shows a comparison of the hole location on the Pontiac block. And below is another photo, but a bit confusing, due to the angle of the photo.

So you can see the extreme difference in design of the 305 bracket, (below) and the 301, (above). The 305 sticks out, and up quite a bit, allowing the rubber lower mounts to set at the correct angle of the K-frame. The Pontiac bracket (above) not only is tight on the mount, but the horizontal bolt hole is lower than the Chevy. Which means the Pontiac block "should" sit higher on the frame. Unless there is a width calculation, that'll alter that concern, that I might be over looking.


What all this comes down to, is I need to figure a way to rotate the motor mount assys to catch the correct angle. Not sure at this point what direction to go. Take a cut-off wheel to the existing 301 eng. brackets, or scratch build some new ones. Maybe there's a third option. Another Pontiac model, that'll have a mount system, that might fit. I might be able to drum up some 2nd gen lower rubber frame mounts, that'll fit those brackets better. Hummm, where would I begin to look.

Hey scarebird, in post #41 above, you have a pic of the 2nd gen frame, with the motor mounts bolted on the sub-frame. Do your eng. brackets look the same as my 301 pictured here? It would seem those should work. 

[tajoe]

After tearing thru my scrounge, (unsuccessfully) and seeing the photos of what the original 80-81 301T frame mounts look like, (and scarebirds photo above), I've decided to just purchase the factory ones on line. They're cheap enuff, and seem to be shaped in a favorable way, unlike the chevy mounts. Live and learn, I guess. They'll be here in a week, then I'll be able to drop the block in, and drill some new holes. What to do, whilst I'm waiting....hummm....guess I should get that power washer fixed. Wonder if replacement pumps are available for older models. Maybe make some time to degrease the underhood chassis.

(On an off note, I removed the condenser from the radiator support the other night, and couldn't believe the thing is as big as the radiator. (Which is small, and plastic)

If nothing more, it'll be a few more wasted pounds removed from the frt end. Every little bit hurts.

[scarebird]

Post 41 is not my car - a pic I gleened off the web.

The Chevy and the BOP lower mounts are indeed different.

1979 T/A with 400 interchanges with this:

BUICK   CENTURY   1979-1981
BUICK   ELECTRA   1980
BUICK   ESTATE WAGON   1980
BUICK   LESABRE   1977-1980
BUICK   REGAL   1979-1982
BUICK   SKYLARK   1977
CADILLAC   BROUGHAM   1987-1990
CADILLAC   COMMERCIAL CHASSIS   1977-1984
CADILLAC   DEVILLE   1977-1984
CADILLAC   FLEETWOOD   1977-1987
OLDSMOBILE   DELTA 88   1979
PONTIAC   BONNEVILLE   1977-1981
PONTIAC   CATALINA   1976-1981
PONTIAC   FIREBIRD   1975-1981
PONTIAC   GRAND AM   1978-1980
PONTIAC   GRAND LEMANS   1975-1981
PONTIAC   GRAND PRIX   1977-1981
PONTIAC   GRAND SAFARI   1977
PONTIAC   LEMANS   1975-1981
PONTIAC   PARISIENNE   1981
PONTIAC   VENTURA   1977

No Chevys.

[tajoe]

Post 41 is not my car - a pic I gleened off the web.
The Chevy and the BOP lower mounts are indeed different.

No Chevys.

I'm sure this has been confirmed, by many on the net. Just wished I had been able to find out why, and  informed earlier so I wouldn't have wasted my time. I still could swear I remember Paul, from many years ago, who did this, said he used the same mounts. But maybe I was remembering wrong, in that he used the factory upper and lowers from an "80-81", and not the lower chevys. Here's his video that I've reposted in the past, for many to enjoy. I hope he hears about this thread, and chimes in. I think he still owns the car, altho it was rear-ended, and damaged severely.
And back to the mount concerns. Why would the aftermarket be making modified mounts for this swap, when the factory ones from 2nd gens work? (Just need to redrill the frame).
Here's Paul's 82 firebird, with the 301T, TH350
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI3p18_owcg

[tajoe]

Was busy "re-arranging" the garage, trying to make space for another disassembled car. Some of the "nonessential" parts will be stored behind the garage, rather than inside. Of course the bees weren't too happy with me disturbing their nests. 
Think the AC parts will do OK under a tarp, as will the old radiator. I was pleased to see the functioning air cleaner lid from the 84 305, fits the same housing as the 301Ts. Then again, they're both QJs, so I can use either, depending on height.

And I was able to find a pump for my 25 yr old Coleman pressure washer, with a Briggs that still runs like a top. A new pump, is cheaper than a new machine, and the old ones seem to be built better, so I didn't mind replacing it. Problem is, it's coming from the other coast, so I hope the stagecoach gets here B4 winter.

[tajoe]

The 80-81 Pontiac Firebird bottom mounts came in today, but I won't be able to play till this week-end. I wuz able to put one in place, and compare them to the chevy lower mounts, and took a pic to show the differences, (that matter).

In this photo, don't get confused, because I wasn't thinking when I laid it out. the 2 mounts, that are bolted in, the left one, is the new one, and the right one, is the chevy mount. Unlike the ones on top of the block, the left one is the chevy mount, and the right one is the Pontiac lower mount. (sorry for that.)
Anyway, on the mounts that are bolted in place, you can see the angle difference. The chevy mount on the right is too tight, and won't allow it to rotate to the correct angle, because of that.

On the comparison photo of the 2 sitting on top of the block, I marked the differences in shape with the yellow ball marker. You can see the chevy mount on the left, sticks up higher than the Pontiac one on the right, which is tapered, and clears the eng. bracket on the motor.

Maybe, it's possible to take a cut-off wheel, and remove material from the eng. bracket, or smash the lower chevy bracket flatter, but I chose the new mount cause they were so cheap. And why were they so cheap? The box they came in said,..."Made in"...well you can only guess. NOT in the US. Don't we make anything anymore?

[tajoe]

Today was a good day. Relatively productive. At a good stopping point.

With the new 2nd gen mounts bolted to the eng. brackets, I lowered them into the chassis, and mated it to the TH700 bell. (which I never unbolted from the crossmember, or torque tube.). This gave me my fore and aft eng. mount positioning. Once the eng. and mounts were sitting on the K-frame, I twisted the eng. and aligned the bolt holes of the new mounts, to be symmetrical with the old mount holes, in the K-frame. This leveled the eng., and I then scribed some marks where the new holes needed to be drilled. 2 on the top, and one on the bottom. (P.S. Don't make the mistake I made, and had the new mounts installed to the eng. brackets "up-side-down"! Not sure if it would've made a difference, because of new holes being drilled, but I had-ta re-install, and remark)



Once the holes were marked, I removed the block, and drilled the news holes. Started with a 3/16ths pilot, and after 4 bit increases, ended with a 7/16ths bit. And the drilling wasn't very difficult. In the photos below, you can see the new holes, marked with a yellow ball marker. (The frame is starting to look like a "swiss cheese Catalina.)



I ended by lowering the whole assy back onto the mounts, with some bolts to hold it "temporarily" in place.


Notice the top of the TH700 chevy bell-housing sticking up behind the block. My next step is to get it back up in the air, and get that tranny out, and fit the Pont. bellhousing, and T5, and figure out the best way to mount the slave cylinder. Stay tuned.

[scarebird]

Looks good.

I would throw the heads on with a couple bolts and then see what the exhaust manifolds do.  A thought on the slave cylinder would be to use a hydraulic throw-out bearing.

[tajoe]

Thanks SB.
Because the block is a 455, and taller than the 301, and the turbo exhaust is pretty simple, (and similar to the SBC cross-over pipe), i'm not too worried about that. I'll have-ta tune it if necessary when the time comes to install it.
 
As for the hyd. TOB, I've seen that option, and will leave it as a last resort. If the slave cyl. leaks, I won't have-ta pull out the tranny. I've mentioned B4, I'm not a fan of hyd. clutch systems, but with the problematic design of the 3rd gen, and mech. Z-bars, I don't have much of a choice.

I see the aftermarket makes a huge and thick bracket, for the slave cyl., and is pretty expensive. Once I get the TH700 out, and the T5 and bellhousing in, I'll have a better idea of what I'm up against. Another concern is the torque tube mount, to the back of the tranny, or at least in that area. Hopefully I'll get some time to do that tomorrow. More pics to come.

[tajoe]

Today was a bit more challenging than yesterday. The 700 came out as expected, but installing the T5 wasn't any fun.

I remember years ago, the muncie 4 speed was the weakest of the "big 3", outta Detroit. But being an aluminum case, had it's advantages when it came to removal. I would always recruit help, when dropping an automatic, on my back. But Muncies were a piece of cake. Use-ta do clutch changes, on my back, by myself in less than an hr in my 65 GTO. (That was in my teens and 20s).
So today, I figured..."a T5 is weaker than a Muncie, therefore it must be lighter. Aluminum case and all". Wrong, they're either heavier, or I've gotten older, and weaker. (Don't answer that). So I ended up installing the T5 with the floor jack. After battling it, underneath, a few times, and giving in.

TH700R4 removal wasn't bad, seeing most of it was disconnected, and the tranny jack held it OK.


And the T5 finally in place, "sans flywheel and clutch", or even crankshaft.

In this lower picture, you'll notice the 3rd gen F body tailhousing details. Because the tranny gets mounted to a weird chevy bell, it's tilted a few degrees, for who knows why. But when it's tilted, the tranny mount is level with the cross-member. But because I have it mounted on a BOP bell, the tranny is level, but the tailhousing is now off.


I'm wondering if I can swap it with a Ford T5 tailhousing (That I believe is straight. Or even maybe an S-10 tail). Or, (because this is one of the worst T5...being a non WC V-6 tranny) should I even invest any money into it, or just replace it with at least a WC T5. I got this for practically nothing, and if nothing more, just planned on "experimenting" with the T5 application.
Another issue, is the torque arm mount. In the lower pic, you can see the end of the arm, (up high), and the mounting bolt/pad location, that is M/T in that photo.

If I can find a different tailhousing, W/O the tilt, then the only dilemma will be bolting up the torque arm. I think the aftermarket has brackets to eliminate the tranny mount.
And lastly, is the hyd. clutch. The slave cyl./clutch fork, looks pretty crowded. specially with the "bump" for the starter. When I get some renewed free time, I'll have-ta give that more investigating. Scarebird mentioned the hyd. TOB, which is starting to look like it might be the "only" option.

In the above photos, the slave cyl. is just dangling. Nothing to bolt to yet.

[Jack]

I wish I was closer to your place or had more time I would love to help, but you're doing great Joe. Keep on experimenting, thats half the fun.

[tajoe]

Thanks for that Jack, but you have your own birds to be pruning. Have a productive week.

[scarebird]

A thought would be you may be able to simply use a Spohn aftermarket arm or modded stock arm to use a tube and rubber guide.  You can make a plate to mount a 1" sway bar mount - a 1" tube would slide in and be welded to an OEM torque arm.  Or sort out a way to bend the OEM mount out to match the arm

[FormTA]

That's a good suggestion.  I like the roll bar mount and tub idea!

[tajoe]

I've seen that aftermarket ladder bar, and they just look like a bit of an overkill for my application, not to mention the extra cash, I'd rather not spend. But I know where you're going in that they have a mounting pocket, that would get it off the transmission. I thought something like this might be more suitable.

It would allow me to use my stock torque arm, and not have-ta mess with the rear mounting. Course the price on this isn't anything to write home about, but I realize sometimes you just gutta bite the bullet. Wondering if I could just weld a bracket to the stock crossmember....but I don't know. Maybe just bite the bullet, and buy this.

[tajoe]

I should be researching the slave cylinder mounting, but because we finally got rain, (and it was Mon. yesterday) I spent my free time inside, on the 'puter, looking for T5 options. What I've finally come up with, (at least for now) is to use a GM WC T5, with a Ford T5 tailhousing. the shifter is correct in location, (un-like an S-10, or Astro-van tailhousing), and doesn't have all the obstructions for the torque arm mounting. Now, to find a GM WC T5, that needs rebuilding for a decent price, or buy individual pieces, or price out ones already built. There's a tranny shop in this state that does T5s, and has a good reputation, so I might make the drive, to get a feel for them.  Otherwise, the hunt begins. Now, back to the garage, and get the mess cleaned up.

[ryeguy2006a]

What about a early LT1 T56 trans? They use a hydraulic piston to push the release arm on the clutch. I'll bet you could remove that piston and adapt a z bar for a mechanical clutch. Plus they have the torque arm mounts.

[scarebird]

As for as the torque arm is concerned, why not cut it a foot back from the trans end and weld a cap plate to it.  take the other end and install it in the trans then tack weld it to the plate - it would adapt for the twist of the trans.  This area is not under much stress.

[tajoe]

What about a early LT1 T56 trans? They use a hydraulic piston to push the release arm on the clutch. I'll bet you could remove that piston and adapt a z bar for a mechanical clutch. Plus they have the torque arm mounts.

What years used this set-up RG? Was it available in a 3rd gen, or a 4th? Interesting thought. As for the mech. Z bar, isn't the best option. The chassis is practically designed to "not" have a Z-bar. There are a few out there, but the owners treat them like gold, and there isn't enuff interest for the aftermarket to reproduce them, and some past owners say they were problematic. I still wish I could find one to try out, but I've already installed the factory hyd. system, that also needs tweaking to work.

As for as the torque arm is concerned, why not cut it a foot back from the trans end and weld a cap plate to it.  take the other end and install it in the trans then tack weld it to the plate - it would adapt for the twist of the trans.  This area is not under much stress.

Now there's a thought SB. Use the original tailhousing, and fabb the end of the torq. arm to fit the angle, rather than trying to change tail housings to fit. Another good thought. Thanks.
I was wondering if the bushing for the yoke was the same from ford to chevy. As you might see from the pics above, the rear tranny mount is "also" crooked, like the torque arm mount.

[ryeguy2006a]

The early LT1 T56 came in the 93-97 4th gen cars. However, I can't remember why but to stay away from the 93 version. Something about gearing and/or weaker parts. 94-97 are the ones to look for. You could keep the hydraulics if you already have it set up. I believe most come with a 2.66 first gear and a .85 and .5 5th and 6th gear. Would be really fun for a car like yours. I believe this is almost a direct bolt in for 3rd gen cars.

[tajoe]

Cool thought, but remember, I have a BOP bell, and were the 4th gen bells/tranny straight up, or crooked like the 3rd gens?

[tajoe]

Social, and other obligations will prevent me from any garage time this week-end, ( ), so the saga will continue next week.
Still researching 3 issues that need "rectum-fying".
1- Clutch slave cylinder mounting
2- torque arm mounting
3- transmission options

To be continued...

[5th T/A]

TAjoe,

Families, jobs and other obligations almost always come first before this hobby. I was pretty much out of the car hobby for many decades because of this. It always amazes how working people find time to build cars. Having said that I am impressed with your progress!

[scarebird]

I may have missed it but what rear axle is in this now?

It plays a huge part in determining transmission.  My 83 Berly had a 2.73 IIRC, not good for manual swaps.

[tajoe]

TAjoe,

Families, jobs and other obligations almost always come first before this hobby. I was pretty much out of the car hobby for many decades because of this. It always amazes how working people find time to build cars. Having said that I am impressed with your progress!

Thanks 5T. It takes a lot of patience, doesn't it? I just hope I live long enuff, to complete one of my projects.

I may have missed it but what rear axle is in this now?
It plays a huge part in determining transmission.  My 83 Berly had a 2.73 IIRC, not good for manual swaps.

Another excellent question SB, and one I'm fully aware of. Not even sure what the ratio in this 84 is, cause it's not a posi, and I haven't pulled the cover, or investigated the tag, if it even has one. I believe I've heard the std gear for this 84s combo is something like a 3.23. But B4 I ever get into the cosmetics of this resto mod, I plan on installing at least a 3.42, but preferably a 3.73 posi, and maybe even  4 wheel disc, depending what I can find out there.
I drive a 93 2500 chevy stakebed, for my residential work truck, and it has a 4180LE, with a 3.73 rear, and it flys on the highway. (At least compared to my 83 C-30 dually, with an SM465, no OD, and a 4.10 rear).

So in the 80-81 301T T/As, all they had was a 3.08 rear, which kills the bottom end of this little mill. And because I won't be spending lots of time with this car on the hi-way, I would prefer to have the acceleration through the gears, with the 3.73s. And with the OD, it'll still keep up with traffic on the free-way.
(Then again, I just came back from the Mass pike, in the Boston area, and it appears the cruise speed now-a-days, is 85+) I'm satisfied with around 75.
So yeah, I will be up-grading what-evers in the back of this car, but 1st I need-ta complete the frt, and middle. And once again, thanks for the advice SB. 

P.S. Isn't it kinda strange, how all 3 pages of this catagory, (projects and restos), has mostly everyone else's thread labeled "NEW", even if they're years old, but mine which is only a couple months isn't. Wunder what qualifies as new?

[tajoe]

Well, my new pressure washer pump has just arrived, so soon I'll be degreasing this thing. At least the eng. compartment for now.
Have a question for the masters. Scarebird (and possibly others), have brought up an alternate transmission to the T-5. I was hoping the T-5 would be an easier install, and would tolerate the weakness, for that reason. But it doesn't appear it's that much of a bolt in, with "minor" mods, so if I have-ta put work into the transformation, maybe a T-56 could also work, and maybe be more available, than a WC T5. Does anyone know, or can confirm, that the bolt pattern on the frt case, and input shaft length is the same as the T5?

Because the F-body/GM T5 has a twisted tailhousing, and an Astro van, or S-10 truck T5s have the shifter fwd on the tailhousing, (so it doesn't work on an F body) And the Ford T5 tail, (is the yoke bushing the same as the GM?) may not be transferable, then how about a T-56? Will one bolt to a BOP bell, and use the same T5 driveshaft?

[ryeguy2006a]

The T56 has a typical SBC bolt pattern and has a unique bell housing, but the early models were meant to go behind SBC so that should be the same spacing as a T5. There are either adapters that will bolt to the case, and will allow for them to bolt to a regular 4 bolt bellhousing like you probably already have, or you could get an adapter to convert the BOP to SBC. Or I believe there is a Quicktime BOP T56 bellhousing. Also they are all 26 spline input shafts, with the 27 spline output shaft. So the T5 yoke should fit fine.

[ryeguy2006a]

Looks like someone now makes a T56 to BOP bellhousing

https://threepedals.com/products/conversion-package/bellhousing-bop-to-ls-t56/small-block-big-block-gm-buick-olds-pontiac-to-tremec-magnum-t56-bellhousing/

[scarebird]

A T56 sounds great, but what about fitting in the tunnel? 

A TKX would easily fit but requires fabbing up the torque arm mount*.  Also $2,800 

I have one of these for my 71 - nice unit.



* IIRC mounts are made for the torque arm to bolt to the trans crossmember.

[tajoe]

Looks like someone now makes a T56 to BOP bellhousing

Yikes! $500 for that bellhousing. I'm trying to use up my inventory when possible, (just to thin out the garage herd), and if I can use the original, I will. The T-56 is a new one on me, and the few photos I've seen of them, they kinda look like the bellhousing is one piece with the tranny. (Like an automatic). But I think I've seen others that weren't. You mentioned early and newer ones, so if necessary, I'll dig deeper. Appreciate the info Ryeguy.

A T56 sounds great, but what about fitting in the tunnel? 

A TKX would easily fit but requires fabbing up the torque arm mount*.  Also $2,800 

I have one of these for my 71 - nice unit.



* IIRC mounts are made for the torque arm to bolt to the trans crossmember.

And yet, another option SB. Nice lookin unit.
I see the note under the photo stating "IIRC mounts are made for the torque arm to bolt to tranny crossmember".
I wuz hoping this would be an easy modification, but it appears it isn't...either.
If you'll notice in my application, the photo below shows how far back the torque mount clamp is, relative to the lower tranny mount.

The 2 large M/T bosses (RHS of photo) hold the lower bolts to the clamp (not bolted on in this photo) for the torque tube, and they're a good 8" or more back from the crossmember, and the torque arm doesn't go up that far. There would need-ta be a long extension from the crossmember, to the torque arm, to capture it.
This lower pic isn't as easy to read, but you can see the "end" of the torque arm, between the 2 L/H clamp bolts tucked up high in the tunnel. It's confusing with the dark shadow running along the side of it.


Anyway, I knew this was a dilemma to overcome, and in time, it'll be taken care of.
My next step is to talk to a local professional tranny rebuilder who specializes in T5s, and get (her) opinion. Her father started the business many years ago, and has passed, She has taken over, and is pretty reputable. I'm gunna see if she knows of a sturdy enuff (for a 301T) T5, that will adapt to my application, which I'm sure will mean swapping cases from other makes.