NOS vs Reproduction

[Wallington]

70-81 Firebird sports mirror mounting gaskets.

Original Firebird gaskets were #9832127. Camaro used #9832126.

They were tapered opposite to match the opposite curves these vehicles have at the door top. As well as this, there was an offset pin so the gasket only went one way on each door, always the right way up.

The reproduction guys decided they knew better, removed the locating pins, removed the taper and marketed one gasket for both. This also meant neither vehicle could have mirrors that mounted straight. The OER version still shows the GM number 9832126 and mods are visible. More recent runs have no part number as shown in photo below used gaskets.

Another company is listing their own "#9832127" gasket, but again, list it is for both cars, which is incorrect, regardless of which way it leans.

11870 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

11871 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

11873 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



Unleaded Fuel bumper transfers. GM #1686875

Original GM decal:
Unleaded fuel decal 78 Y88 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Original GM vs common Reproduction decal.
0C4C9EA8-13D4-4012-A921-ABA00DF1953E by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

NOS GM vs etched outline in bare 78 bumper recess.
Unleaded Fuel Only decal NOS and stripped rear bumper by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Assorted decals all claiming to be correct. NOS GM and a very close reproduction in length and font. 2 common oversized decals. I don't recall the brands or source, but any photos will be easy to identify. Also, measure the bumper recess it needs to fit inside.
Unleaded Fuel Only decals NOS Repro by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



Rear Fender / Floor plugs.

Not an exciting part, had the pics uploaded. A common part sold at many reproduction shops listing them as floor plugs which I have not checked as mine are under dynamat. But they do match the rear fender trunk drop-offs nicely and are the same part. There are also 1-2 in the trunk floor.

These are to suit a 23mm hole (15/16"). The original is covered in underbody deadener.
They are likely easier to install when you have access to the rear side. The retainer is different so doesn't flatten after locating to reposition tabs and lock. So more a case of if wanting something for a repair that looks right, may still need to be sealed into place with extra help. But floor locations would work as designed, plus sealer.

PW210320A floor pan fender drain plugs 15-16 hole by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird rear inner fender dropoff plug repro 23mm (1) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird rear inner fender dropoff plug repro 23mm (2) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird rear inner fender dropoff plug repro 23mm (3) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

1977-78 chrome park lamp bezels. #499855 + #499856.

These are the GM-approved Australian reproductions from Pontiworld. Some US places also stocked them but don't identify. I believe there is now another supplier, unsure if same castings rebranded.

Reproduction bezels and lamps.
Park lights repro bezel and light 1 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

These are my photos of an original GM set I had rechromed on the left, reproduction on the right. The rechroming alone was around 3x the purchase price of the reproduction bezels. Even after I spent a lot of time cleaning up the castings prior, the new bezels were still nicer and matched where needed. A very good reproduction piece at good price. A rare example where the reproduction is actually a better item than the original and NOS.

park light bezel rechromed original repro 1 499856 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

park light bezel rechromed original repro 2 499856 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

park light bezel rechromed original repro 3 499856 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

park light bezel rechromed original repro 4 499856 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

park light bezel repro 1 499856 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

[FormTA]

That is a great idea but it would be nice if it was locked or folks kept their comments out of it so it would be easier to sift through  it.  That would be a good place for the side glass comparison to and you grab handles and door handles.  I say go for it.

[81Blackbird]

That is a good idea.  Here is an example of the OEM vs. OER window sweep.  They didn't fit the curve above the door handle.  Also, the end near the door jamb / side mirror was bent in the wrong direction.  It was bent in such a way the it would rub on the body of the car and damage the paint.

First picture is the OEM with a cutout of the window sweep profile.

[81Blackbird]

This is what the profile looks like against the OER Window sweeps.

[81Blackbird]

Another angle.

[81Blackbird]

And the way the end was terminated.

[roadking77]

I wondered why I could not get the mirror base to line up all that good!

Good Thread idea.

[b_hill_86]

These are great comparisons. Thank you and keep them coming.

[highway star]

Also a difference in the sail panel emblem (metal) firebird's wings. OEM wing tips are pointed vs aftermarket rounded.

[b_hill_86]

Also a difference in the sail panel emblem (metal) firebird's wings. OEM wing tips are pointed vs aftermarket rounded.

I could be wrong but I thought I remembered reading somewhere that there was some discrepancy with that theory.

[Warren Seale]

I don't have photos but this is easy to describe.  In 79, the red, orange, gold hood bird original had no clear vinyl between the feathers but the reproduction does.  It is interesting that the other color original hood birds also had the clear vinyl between the feathers.  It is only the red, orange, gold that didn't have this.

[TA301]

If I was producing the reproduction of the originals, I would insist on exactness and if that could not be achieved due to manufacturing costs then I would not bother. Most reproductions are, get it to the market ASAP, even if it does not duplicate the part to the letter, so to speak. As such, NOS or good used is always better, in my opinion.

[roadking77]

Bingo. This is a great thread. Not all cars need 'exact' repros as long as what they get works. Others that strive for perfection (me included) do want the correct stuff. One thing nice about AMES is they will list in their catalogue if the part is sub par, which is usually cheaper and gives the buyer a choice if close enough is good enough.

[FormTA]

No but are the indents too deep to sand out? I know it will thin the brace out but probably not to the thinness of a reproduction.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Rear Fender / Floor plugs.

Not an exciting part, had the pics uploaded. A common part sold at many reproduction shops listing them as floor plugs which I have not checked as mine are under dynamat. But they do match the rear fender trunk drop-offs nicely and are the same part. There are also 1-2 in the trunk floor.

These are to suit a 23mm hole (15/16"). The original is covered in underbody deadener.
They are likely easier to install when you have access to the rear side. The retainer is different so doesn't flatten after locating to reposition tabs and lock. So more a case of if wanting something for a repair that looks right, may still need to be sealed into place with extra help. But floor locations would work as designed, plus sealer.

I love it when the original rear quarter panel dropoff plugs are still in place. Usually means the panel is not going to be rotted out.

[roadking77]

After many years I finally bought a set of sun visors for my 77 t/a.
I got the visors and the mounting/swivel bracket from Ames. The parts were excellent, the bracket has great chrome and is heavy duty. Compared to the original from my 79 it is what I would call a perfect part.
IF I have one complaint, right under the bracket number in the catalogue, is listed "mounting screws". So naturally I clicked on that 'part' as well. It was only a couple of dollars but when I got the parts in the mail the mounting screws come with the part. The additional screws were not needed.

[scarebird]

Expensive it is.  Some of these items I cannot see how it is possible to make such short runs for the cost.

The metal backing for the AC controls can be made laser cut then formed and painted.  No excuse for cardboard.

[FormTA]

Hey, I'm entertained just wish I had something to contribute...  I'm just not building a F body right now.

[stros]

The sail panel emblems from Phoenix Graphix were horrible.  I had at least 4 of them fall apart on me, usually within a year.

I now have the Parts Place ones...so far so good, but I am extremely careful when washing the car now to never hit them with any water (given my experiences with the Phoenix ones.)

[stros]

So the sail panel emblem from Parts Place looks more like the OER one than the pics provided by the Parts Place.  There are no chrome ribs within the red sections.  Sorry for the dust.

[Updated71]

This thread is very valuable-thank you for all of the comparisons.

[stros]

Is there a clear coat at all, resin or similar, from edged to edge? Or just a chrome backing with red or black infills?

It feels like it has a light clear coat over it edge to edge.  You don't really feel the indentations very much.  I don't believe the Phoenix ones had any clear coat - the red infills in particular had a tendency to just fall out over time, or if they got wet at all. 

I took another look at the order I placed on eBay for the Parts Place emblem.  No mention of OER, and it looks nothing like their picture.  I don't recall them coming in an OER box. 

In terms of OER, my experience with them has been completely hit or miss over the years.  Their quality varies from part to part significantly. 

[wheels78ta]

No.....No.....No.....

Now.  Sit back.  Relax.  Take a deep breath.  Let it out.  ALLLLLLLMMMMMM.  Stop laughing.......it really works. 

Your knowledge of these cars is outstanding.  Myself and many others would like you to continue with your contributions.

[stros]

Agree I think this thread could be very valuable particularly for someone who's just starting a restoration.  I wish I had a comparison like this before buying so many crappy reproduction parts over the years.  It would be good to expand this out to more parts.

[wheels78ta]

Door Panel Emblems

NOS on the left.......Repro on the right

[wheels78ta]

On the outside sections of the wings.......count 5 down and you can see the difference in size of the last piece.  Also, the grain is less dense on the repro.

The tips of the wings on NOS are more defined than the repro.

NOS first pic

REPRO second pic

[wheels78ta]

GM part number on NOS.  Nothing on Repro

[wheels78ta]

The three tabs on back of NOS are a little thicker and rounded on the ends compared to the repro.

[b_hill_86]

Anyone sick of door mirrors yet? I found something quite intriguing.

I’m curious at least lol

[FormTA]

Not sure I have room in my brain to retain the info but I'm game, at least for entertainment purposes 😅

[5th T/A]

Ben, all great information. You are saving us countless hours and dollars on parts comparison.

Back in 1980 when I restored my 1975 TA I was able to find decent parts in the bone yard. Just about everything was still available at my local Pontiac dealer. Since I was good friends with the parts manager he gave me great discounts. Getting back into the hobby about three years ago I saw all the catalogs from the restoration parts houses and thought to myself finding parts wouldn’t be an issue. Reading your threads and my limited experience with some of the reproduction parts tells me to find a good used part or restore what you have. Reproduction is a last resort.

Thanks again for all your efforts!

[b_hill_86]

You do a great job with pictures, descriptions and comparisons. It’s amazing how different these things can be yet so close. It’s these little details that end up giving you trouble when mixing and matching.

[FormTA]

My head hurts...... You have put some serious effort into thw mirrors alone! I'm glad I have a pile of parts in my shop to cause from. I normally don't need any reproduction parts except those darn exterior handles..... I was thinking if selling off all of my extra parts but now I'm rethinking that, especially since I still have one more Firebird to restore....

[TA301]

I can attest from experience; the reproduction main HVAC duct [the one under the dash on the passenger side] will not fit. I spent 5 hours total trying to fit it and it failed. Original GM installed in 15 minutes! I posted a comment regarding it right here. While the quality is good it fails to line up in key areas with the plenum and the bi-level AC outlet of the dash, making it impossible to bolt up.

[Wallington]

Formula steering wheel horn caps.

A recent generic slab of rubber that doesn't seem to carry any particular brand, sold by many places. I picked one up just to check it out.

Here's my GM original on left and bare black rubber cap reproduction on right. Both wear original GM emblems for sake of pic.

The overall shape and look isn't bad. It does have a slight texture that the original does not have to same extent. It is also not coated in vinyl nor does it say it requires it, which it does. I tried cleaning it and treating it with interior protectant. It did not take well, the rubber possibly looked older. So I cleaned it back and gave a few coats of satin black vinyl trim coat instead, shown in later pics. It's not a bad piece once coated. I'd still prefer an original GM cap if you can find one without chunks and gouges, recoat that instead.

There's also less curved end to the mounting tabs. This may make it harder to install as it bites rather than pushes over the mount. I didn't test.

Firebird steering wheel horn cap original vs repro rubber original emblems (2) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird steering wheel horn cap original vs repro rubber original emblems (4) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird steering wheel horn cap original vs repro rubber original emblems (5) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



Same again, GM on left, repro on right, now coated in satin black vinyl spray.

Firebird horn cap GM vs repro used emblems (1) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird horn cap GM vs repro used emblems (2) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird horn cap GM vs repro used emblems (3) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird horn cap GM vs repro used emblems (4) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird horn cap GM vs repro used emblems (5) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

71-81 Firebird fender emblems.

NOS GM #486904 vs reproduction emblem with helmet nuts added. There is also an alternative GM emblem with revised number 9795240 cast into the back.

71-81 Firebird fender emblem NOS 486904 vs repro (1) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

71-81 Firebird fender emblem NOS 486904 vs repro (3) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

71-81 Firebird fender emblem NOS 486904 vs repro (5) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

71-81 Firebird fender emblem NOS 486904 vs repro (4) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



Roof channel blow-out tabs. 71-81 version. GM-used vs Reproduction by MCI.

Firebird blowout tags original vs repro1 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird blowout tags original vs repro2 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird blowout tags original vs repro3 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



Rear armrest ashtrays.

Reproduction by OER on left, replated original GM on right. Often listed as 68-69 Camaro ashtrays, it also matches the inserts for 70-81 Firebirds.

Reproduction has a slight yellow tinge to the plating, my own GM units have a blue tinge to the plating. The cigarette stub hole is larger on the reproductions. There is also a larger locating lug on the reproduction sides, this actually makes them fit better and a more positive clip into place. Also, rare for reproductions, they are made from a heavier gauge steel than original.

Repro vs GM rear ashtray (2) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Repro vs GM rear ashtray (3) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Repro vs GM rear ashtray (4) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Repro vs GM rear ashtray (1) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Formula steering wheel horn cap emblems.

NOS original GM vs horrible sticker emblem.

Original GM Firebird horn button vs repro emblem by Aus78Formula, on Flickr


NOS GM emblem vs Lucite Reproduction emblem.

GM on left, complete with missing read wing infill. Much better reproduction on right. The silver bird border is now chrome on reproduction. A very good replacement if you don't have a mint original.

Firebird steering wheel emblem new vs original (1) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

NOS GM emblem.

Firebird steering wheel emblem new vs original (3) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Reproduction emblem. The chamfered border doesn't seem to have been polished like the face, and like the GM piece, and slightly steeper.

Firebird steering wheel emblem new vs original (2) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird steering wheel emblem new vs original (6) by Aus78Formula, on Flickr


Auto shifter knob.

NOS GM installed vs Reproduction from Pontiworld. As perfect as they get to being identical in detail and quality.

Firebird Auto shift knobs repro vs GM 2 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird Auto shift knobs repro vs GM 1 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



GM NOS Auto shifter button vs common reproduction button.

GM version has raised emblem details and chrome edging. The reproduction is simply printed onto a stainless circle, the bird is not even centred correctly. Border ring a different size and overall appearance is cheap and tacky. The button itself is likely fine, just a bad emblem attached.

Firebird Auto shift knob buttons repro vs GM 1 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Firebird Auto shift knob buttons repro vs GM 2 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Door mirror remote bezel.

Original GM #1387797 vs reproduction by OER. There are another brand or two of these, possibly same item.

Overall size and fit is good. As can be seen the GM version is more of a frosted zinc plating, rather than deep chrome or repro. The pebbling finish is also much more coarse. A satin chrome would probably look close enough. Used originals aren't hard to find, but they tend to be pulled out of shape by having only 2 screws on a padded door. Not shown, the retainer wire clip on the rear is much chunkier on the repro, less of a spring wire, should work ok.

Mirror remote bezels stock vs OER 1 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Mirror remote bezels stock vs OER 2 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr



Console armrest swing arm.

When the previous 'solid' reproduction armrest pad was replaced with a new correct soft padded version about 10 years ago, it came with this nasty swing arm of totally incorrect arc that would cut its own slot into the plastic bin hole. The GM original is shown in bare metal, I think....I didn't record on the photo but I do have a spare glossy black Made in China arm in my spares.

Firebird console lid arm vs original by Aus78Formula, on Flickr


NOS GM #9819033/9819034 door opening scuff strips vs glossy reproduction strips.

Various brands, slight variations but mostly similar. Reproductions polished far more than original GM stainless, lighter gauge. The ends of the reproductions don't always curve over to match the side sill or plastic trim of kick panel/rear armrest. Luckily, easily rebent by hand to wrap over. The Fisher decal can differ. Early years were held on with 2 actual rivets, later stuck on. Reproductions can be stuck-on, possibly have rivets, or have imitation rivets like photo.

NOS door stainless strips vs repro shiny scuff plates by Aus78Formula, on Flickr


Olds 350/403 77-79 valve cover PCV grommet.

A few reproduction brands, probably not many are different parts. Reproduction on left, NOS GM #385283 on right. The GM part is much softer rubber. The reproduction, probably by Dorman and sold under many names, was hard with sharper cast edges. I've had a couple, one even split trying to install the factory PCV, it had no stretch and a few days later was junk.

Not much visual variation other than sheen and lack of rounded edges. Also, lacking casting batch numbers which varied on GM parts. The underside is hard to tell but PCV hole is different size to snug fit of GM. All GM versions I've seen show a clear casting join line down the centre, repros are often a single casting. Some may say that's a cleaner finish, but it also identifies a poor quality part being sold, often as genuine. That's how I got some of mine.

There's a couple of newer reproductions, likely same part, that look good and have the cast numbers to help identify them. Steer clear of the cheap grommets with the sharp edges.

Olds PCV grommet Repro vs GM 1 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

Olds PCV grommet Repro vs GM 2 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr


Rear rocker panel dust flap seal.

Original GM still installed.
Rocker dust flap seal by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

NOS GM #4615576 vs recent reproduction.  Dirty original looks flat but is not. Minor variations, likely work the same.

GM 4615576 rocker drain flap vs repro 2 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

GM 4615576 rocker drain flap vs repro 3 by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

GM 4615576 rocker drain flap vs repro by Aus78Formula, on Flickr

[Wallington]

The Part Guy currently reproduces several of the heater or AC control lenses exclusively. This is the AC version for 78-79 models.

My used original was close to mint, decided to try one anyway. The GM version uses the darker blue end, the TPG repro has the light blue end. The main/only issues with my used lens was some fogging patches on one end. It is an excellent piece, highly recommended if your lens is anything but perfect. Even I didn't need to get one and am happy with it.

Firebird heater AC controls original dark blue repro TPG light blue  (1) by Ben, on Flickr

The font and size is excellent, when stacked on top of the other they lined up perfectly, hard to see in a photo as I tried. The GM version lettering is slightly more bold and stronger in white. The letter A is slightly different but you wouldn't know without comparing each.

Not the best photo, indoors with flash. The original GM at top uses a thin metal shim painted black. The reproduction below uses a very thin card template printed over in black. It may be a huge improvement over many used and rusty originals but it is a weak alternative to metal. Mine arrived creased, although that area is not seen. I'd imagine most are similar as the card is longer than the lens in the packet. The reflection washes out the colour more than it appears, plus shows a nice oily fingerprint I only spotted later. The black painted lens is a richer black than the print. Future cleaning of lens or dash surrounds with sprays that seep may see the card become an issue.

Firebird heater AC controls original steel plate repro TPG black card by Ben, on Flickr

A 'completed' lens comparison, however this time both the reproduction lens and card backing are at the top (with fingerprint on the black card), the used GM below. You can see the small fogged marks on the used GM in this pic.

Firebird heater AC controls original dark blue repro TPG light blue  (2) by Ben, on Flickr

Firebird heater AC controls original dark blue repro TPG light blue  (3) by Ben, on Flickr

And quick shot of the repro lens with original metal GM black backing plate in place on control unit. I haven't any way of comparing the lighting at present. The end cutout in the black backing is where the lighting shines through onto the angled blue lens and give the unit a blue/green glow across the rear from the yellow globe light. The much lighter blue may change this effect, as might different LEDs as well. That's for another day to worry about

Firebird heater AC controls original black steel backing plate TPG repro lens (1) by Ben, on Flickr

Also a difference in the sail panel emblem (metal) firebird's wings. OEM wing tips are pointed vs aftermarket rounded.

I could be wrong but I thought I remembered reading somewhere that there was some discrepancy with that theory.
[/quote]

I left this one alone as I don't have the full information required. But the original production line 75-78 sail panel GM bird was the pointed wingtip type #1735919 and the later spare parts reproduction is the cartoonish version, which also seems to have been stocked by GM but supplied to them by another emblem maker for whatever reason. For the sake of comparing I've called the original type the GM type, and the later GM spare, the cartoon reproduction version.

A later reproduction that appears to have supplied the original style again seems to have followed in the original form and same moulds. These have two mounting pins cut off and double-sided tape, no GM or casting numbers. They had light blue tape to peel off from the side, the cartoon type had red that peels from the bottom. The originals have a flat cast back, the cartoon type has a border. I have not seen the rear of the cartoon type under the adhesive. I have also only seen them applied to 'restored' or tidied-up cars, never an original vehicle, so far. Even if they were original, they are terrible.

I have NOS versions in GM boxes and GM packets, also a few old stock emblems from early reproductions and they appear to be one and the same. The clear resin top could yellow with age. Don't be fooled by those trying to sell the rare 'Gold' and red versions, it was just badly yellowed over the chrome.

NOS GM original style emblems, box and packet

Firebird sail panel bird emblems 2 NOS 1735919 by Ben, on Flickr

GM NOS 75-78 sail bird emblem 1735919 (1) by Ben, on Flickr

GM NOS 75-78 sail bird emblem 1735919 (2) by Ben, on Flickr

'Rare Gold version'. No, just badly yellowing resin fill. This one was actually a repro sample, and a mistake at that.

Sailbird with incorrect gold infill edges repro yellowing resin by Ben, on Flickr

Used GM emblem vs cartoon version.

Sailpanel bird emblem NOS vs GM Repro by Ben, on Flickr

As can be seen, the cartoon type is 2-dimensional with printed details and is cast flat. Here's a pair of NOS cartoon versions.

NOS GM 1735919 75-78 sail bird emblems cartoon type (1) by Ben, on Flickr

NOS GM 1735919 75-78 sail bird emblems cartoon type (2) by Ben, on Flickr

1976 Formula sail emblem repro by Ben, on Flickr

Here's the horrible cartoon version alongside an equally horrible reproduction that Phoenix Graffix were selling for a while. Looks like cake icing or solder.

75-78 sail birds GM cartoon vs PG repro by Ben, on Flickr

Pre-production sample by OER. I haven't seen on in person.

OER sail bird emblem 1735919 75-78 by Ben, on Flickr

Advertising sample from The Parts Place. The shape looks good. It may be one and the same with the OER above but different lighting showing the chrome ribs through the red more clearly. Again, not seen on in person to compare with GM. 

Sail bird repro emblem PartsPlace EMB-2147C-2 by Ben, on Flickr

Sail bird repro emblem PartsPlace EMB-2147C-2 2 by Ben, on Flickr

[Wallington]

I picked up an assortment of parts, included were a set of the new The Parts Place reproduction bullet sports mirrors. These appear to be different from the OER version, at least in photos used by sellers.

This is the RH door mirror.
On close inspection they look the part and very clean unit, I even noticed a casting number inside of 52811 that was used in the mid-70's with the KBC cast units by GM. I was hoping they were a copy of the same casting, but they appear to be only based on it. The glass has a protective plastic on it.

TPP repro RH door mirror 52811 lightweight copy (1) by Ben, on Flickr

Naturally, I pulled it apart to inspect. And that's when you notice the first thing, just how light they are. I had to have a loser look as though for a moment they may have even been cast in plastic, such is the weight and amount the head flexes. They are only slightly thinner than original but a lot less bulk in some cast areas. Originals had a thick base that could be tapped for extra screws, not a chance with these, so thin there now.

TPP RH door mirror repro 52811 parts 9814437 (1) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP RH door mirror repro 52811 parts 9814437 (2) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP RH door mirror repro 52811 parts 9814437 (4) by Ben, on Flickr

No casting detail or numbers in the support, no extra rib. Very light. The GM version certainly doesn't flex.

TPP RH door mirror repro 52811 parts 9814437 (10) by Ben, on Flickr

Hard to photograph but the inner glass pedestal is actually a very nice piece and almost a perfect copy of the GM piece. It even has the original casting details for 9814437. This would be a perfect spare part, along with new glass if required for these or original GM mirrors, but would need the matching screws for the threads. Glass is plain, undated, no text. The cast pedestal is a later version, drilled and tapped for 3 locations of which only 2 are used. Mirror head only has the 2 holes and no cable hole as per some castings.

TPP RH door mirror repro 52811 parts 9814437 (7) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP RH door mirror repro 52811 parts 9814437 (5) by Ben, on Flickr

Now, some quick comparisons with a version 1 KBC 1972 RH mirror. It's what I had out, my 76 and 77 castings likely have very similar cast bosses inside but that's not important here.

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (3) by Ben, on Flickr

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (4) by Ben, on Flickr

Casting wall thickness in main head area are similar, but thinner.

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (5) by Ben, on Flickr

The casting wall thickness of the support is further from the GM unit.

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (1) by Ben, on Flickr

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (2) by Ben, on Flickr

All in all, they look great, I even swapped the top and bottom with the GM pieces to prove it still fits ok, very closely copy or adapted from same castings. The holes even lined up so you could swap pieces or internals around.

But like I said, they are very light, they don't feel anywhere as solid as the GM pieces. So let's compare that.

TPP repro head - 132 grams.

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (9) by Ben, on Flickr

GM head - 287 grams.

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro ( by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro support - 81 grams

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (7) by Ben, on Flickr

GM support - 203 grams

RH door mirror GM 72 KBC casting TPP repro (6) by Ben, on Flickr

The GM and TPP repro glass inner pedestals were almost identical, within about 3 grams so no shortcuts with that piece. The glass and plastic backing plate match the original GM glass and backing shape and size perfectly.

[Wallington]

Next, comparing mirror mounts and screws. Since it came with 2 RH brackets and no LH bracket, it's already off to a bad start. Turns out they don't even supply mounting hardware, just a bracket. And of course, they changed the thread size so you can't simply use your existing screws, if you have them.

Original replated RH GM bracket and black TPP bracket. Like I said, no screws were provided, the one shown was actually removed from the assembly holding the glass and it fit as far as thread goes. It's like 3/16" UNF but not actually confirmed. The heads are specific too, they need to be oval-head countersunk and with a special smaller than standard head.

Edit: The new screw size is M5. They don't even supply them. You need M5 x 16mm oval-head/raised-head countersunk screws.

Firebird RH door mirror mount GM plated vs TPP black (1) by Ben, on Flickr

Firebird RH door mirror mount GM plated vs TPP black (2) by Ben, on Flickr

So, going through my spares I have a few packs of OER #9423325 mirror screws. I don't know if that's meant to be a GM number, nothing comes up, but label seems specific. Regardless, these are 8-32 screws. I have several, surely they couldn't incorrectly package them all. They are useless.

The original GM screws #9878590 are 10-24 oval-head screws with dogpoint tip and slightly undersize heads. Standard base model mirrors use 8-32 screws so perhaps that's what these are, but seems OER already has those under another part number, who knows, except they are wrong. They are of no use with the TPP brackets,  I have no idea if they suit the OER mirrors only, hence the name they are sold under.

GM 9878590 door mirror screw OER incorrect 8-32 pack and large head 10-24 pack  (1) by Ben, on Flickr

I had previously ordered in some 10-24 oval head screws for this purpose. They even turned up in an OER pack, not how advertised. Correct thread, longer than required but have the standard headsize for oval-head screws.

GM 9878590 door mirror screw OER incorrect 8-32 pack and large head 10-24 pack  (3) by Ben, on Flickr

Here's all 3 types. OER 10-24 oval-heads, original GM 10-24 oval-heads and OER '70-81' 8-32 oval-heads.

GM 9878590 door mirror screw OER incorrect 8-32 pack and large head 10-24 pack  (4) by Ben, on Flickr

Just for interest, here's the GM #9878590 original screw in same GM mirror support.

GM 29845 1972 RH mirror support with GM 9878590 screw by Ben, on Flickr

Here's the slightly longer OER 10-24 screw but with standard size oval head. It's a snug fit. On some castings it is even tighter. They can easily be ground down a touch to take shoulder edge off them.

GM 29845 1972 mirror support with large head 10-24 screw (2) by Ben, on Flickr

Here's the GM original #9878590 original screw in TPP repro mirror support. Snug but fits, clearly a smaller recess than previous, similar to some GM castings too. It doesn't sit as recessed as the GM version even with smaller head.

TPP mirror support with GM 9878590 screw 10-24 by Ben, on Flickr

Here's the slightly longer OER 10-24 screw but with standard size oval head in the TPP repro support, doesn't fit well at all. Another reason the GM version has smaller head, as with some original castings.

TPP mirror support with large head 10-24 screw by Ben, on Flickr

On page 1 of this post I already did a GM vs OER comparison of the LH remote mirror doortrim bezel #1387797. I can no longer find reference to the OER version but believe it has now been repackaged and altered.

Here's another version, this is an alternative JC casting instead of the common KBC casting, same as those producing the mirrors. I do not know if the part number on the box is related, I have no record. Note that it has a nylon retainer instead of the wire clip retainer.

NOS GM 1387801 1387797 JC casting remote mirror doortrim bezel (1) by Ben, on Flickr

NOS GM 1387801 1387797 JC casting remote mirror doortrim bezel (2) by Ben, on Flickr

NOS GM 1387801 1387797 JC casting remote mirror doortrim bezel (3) by Ben, on Flickr

Here's an updated comparison to that prior. This is a used original GM #1387797 (my NOS is now installed) and compared with the new The Parts Place bezel. As mentioned, I believe this could be the same as the OER version, I didn't save a photo of the rear of the last one and since sold it to compare casting details.

GM on the left, TPP on the right. Similar to last time. The pebbled texture is slightly more coarse, the chrome finish has more sheen than the GM. There's flash in the screw holes but will open up fine. The OER version had very large holes, the stock screws only just made contact. The scalloped area on either side of the cable hole is much smoother finish, than the GM and the pebbled texture. The recessed part is slightly shorter on the repro.

The wire retainer is smaller but only the ends matter where they lock into the cable handle body. As shown, it's still far brighter chrome than the GM but less than the OER production previously so an improvement, but not the satin sheen of original which is closer to silver zinc plating than chrome. The repro is also a touch thicker, not a bad thing, the used units were often curved from tightening over a padded door trim with only 2 corner screws.

GM 1387797 remote mirror bezel TPP repro (1) by Ben, on Flickr

GM 1387797 remote mirror bezel TPP repro (2) by Ben, on Flickr

GM 1387797 remote mirror bezel TPP repro (3) by Ben, on Flickr

GM 1387797 remote mirror bezel TPP repro (4) by Ben, on Flickr

GM 1387797 remote mirror bezel TPP repro (5) by Ben, on Flickr

[Wallington]

The other mirror is the LH remote version reproduction by The Parts Place. As per their stock photo, and again, no mounting hardware other the door bracket. No screw to retain mirror or 2 screws to mount bracket to door. That's a confusing choice, especially since you can't reuse your existing screws, at least on the mirror supports. You also need to reuse your existing door trim bezel screws and backing plate.

The Parts Place LH remote miror repro (1) by Ben, on Flickr

Firstly, just confirming it's based on the 72-81 mirror version, or rather, the RH mirror is as that's when it became slightly larger after redesigned for other models.

Many may not even be aware that the mirror glass size was diagonally 5-1/8" for the first 2 years, then the RH side was increased to 5-1/4". This was copied into the head size and the difference seen here.

TPP LH RH mirror head sizes by Ben, on Flickr

LH remote mirror glass.

TPP door mirror glass (2) by Ben, on Flickr

RH mirror glass.

TPP door mirror glass (1) by Ben, on Flickr

The mirrors come with the usual mismatch of Firebird and Camaro reproduction mounting gaskets by those who don't understand what the differences are. 1x Firebird 9832127 and 1x Camaro 9832126, both with respective offset locating lugs and tapered sides.

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy (7) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy ( by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy (4) by Ben, on Flickr

And, missed opportunity here. Like many of the GM units, the cable has been assembled through the components, not added later with either the mirror head or the support having a cable hole that doesn't allow for the toggle assembly. This means the complete assembly can't be pulled down for swapping parts, painting, or using the new internals in your existing painted mirror body. Perhaps it can be offered later.

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy (5) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy (6) by Ben, on Flickr

Since the mirror can't be disassembled it became difficult to weigh components without damaging my own parts for sake of entertainment. So once reassembled I weighed just the main assemblies, as well as the previous RH side again. The LH remote side was still lighter than GM, but not as drastic as the RH side was. Likewise it felt more solid too.

Here's the TPP LH remote mirror - 572 grams.

TPP repro LH remote mirror assembly 572 grams by Ben, on Flickr

GM LH remote mirror - 696 grams.

GM LH remote mirror assembly 696 grams by Ben, on Flickr

TPP RH mirror - 380 grams.

TPP repro RH mirror assembly 380 grams by Ben, on Flickr

GM RH mirror - 616 grams.

GM RH mirror assembly 616 grams by Ben, on Flickr

One bizarre feature of the reproduction  is the extreme length of the cable. No doubt they use the same one for other models and options and use the same length for all, perhaps. It may create a few issues routing inside Firebird door without fouling window tracks and regulator.

Edit: wrong pic and wrongly captioned! This in the black TPP mirror with cable shown with a GM X-body mirror, short cable, squared-off mirror support base for different doors.

TPP repro LH remote mirror long cable with GM used by Ben, on Flickr

Here's the repro remote toggle control at top, used GM below. You can see that while similar, it slightly chunkier.

TPP repro vs GM used LH remote mirror cable control (2) by Ben, on Flickr

In this pic the GM #9866562 knob is at the top. The overall taper is different, head and stem slightly finer while the threaded end is different of more course thread so they can't be swapped over, or sold as a spare, another fail for potential parts sales. The repro chrome also has a slight yellow cast to it. The GM knob is actually a turned piece, the TPP repro is cast, the end, not shown in these pics, is filed flat rather than having lathe cut-off rings.

TPP repro vs GM used remote toggle mirror control knob 9866562 different threads (1) by Ben, on Flickr

Repro on left, GM on right. Note the different threads and chrome colours.

TPP repro vs GM used remote toggle mirror control knob 9866562 different threads (2) by Ben, on Flickr

Here's the TPP repro LH remote mirror disassembled.

Again, the castings are very close to the GM versions, in this case based on the KBC castings about 77-79. Main mirror head has cast 52821 as per GM, the support has no details or internal rib. As can be seen, the small access hole in the support means all components are tied as one.

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (3) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (9) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (7) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (11) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (4) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (6) by Ben, on Flickr

While these 2 castings are nice, a little more solid than the RH side, but still less than the original GM, the internals are yet again the highlight (ignoring the cable length and knob).

Again, these components are close to identical to GM parts. The backing plate is the KBC 9852546 part, the cast pedestal is the 29856 found on many that mount through the base. The cast colour text clearly showing where each cable went, although these cables are bare.

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (12) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (13) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (15) by Ben, on Flickr

TPP repro LH door remote mirror lightweight copy 52821 9852546 29856 (16) by Ben, on Flickr

For comparison, here are the same 2 components on a 1977 original GM mirror. Again, the entire internal mirror glass and cable assembly could have been offered as a replacement part for used GM units. Although, it would only work for those castings that have both large access holes and to match the screws used for the base.

I have far more pics and comparisons with used GM, but it's pretty much the same again and I lost interest days ago.

Firebird original LH black remote mirror large cable holes 9852546 52821 52822 29856 KBC  (4) by Ben, on Flickr

Here's an extra pic showing the cable lengths of remote mirrors. I added the wrong pic above, or rather, it was meant to be a Firebird mirror and I used an X-body mirror and didn't notice until later.

Here's the updated version.

TPP reproduction LH remote mirror with stupidly-long cable, original GM Firebird mirror head minus the case (it was already out), and same '77 X-body mirror with short cable.

LH remote mirror cable length TPP repro Firebird X-body by Ben, on Flickr

[Wallington]

I've updated a few links where attachments were out of sync or didn't open. Had to remove original posts, reinsert new link and repost bit by bit, some replies are now before the topics, there's a size limit per post in text. Any issues or where pics don't match or make sense, let me know.