someone talk me off the fuel injection

[Vroom_vroom]

so for all the years i have had the bird it runs (for the most part) like a sob in the cold weather, once it warms up out side it surges and acts like its starving fore fuel when you get on it (not even full wot) my carb is a custom built q jet from smi with 75 jets, 46k rods and a pertronix hei i have always found meh.

so after all this my fuel system is regulated to 5.5 with a edelbrock mech. pump that should not have a problem keeping up, but i know its ignition or fuel. i have pulled wet plugs before that otherwise look fine, car always smells rich and the plugs should be hot enough with r45s.

do i need to drop the $ on a better ignition system or go big boy and get a pro flo fuel injection set up? would rather spend it on a new trans but im pretty beat down fighting this issue every year. 

just as a side note my compression is 10.1 static and 7.5 (ish) dynamic if i remember right. pump gas out here is 91.

[firebirdparts]

I'm a believer in getting carbs working, I guess you know that if you read here.  But if you get frustrated, ultimately that's more important than my philosophy.  So I would say EFI is fine for avoiding that.  Some folks of course run into problems with that also, but you can probably get good help if you have trouble with it.

[Wallington]

Holleys exist because people gave up on the Quadrajet, not because they got it sorted properly and thought they'd change it anyway. That doesn't change anything but always good to have it running well before converted so can compare and avoid issues that are still there. By all means, convert to EFI, but for the right reasons.

[5th T/A]

I agree with Firebird Parts and Wallington.

There is no easy way out of your problem. There are pros and cons to a carb and fuel injection systems.

With a FI system you will have to upgrade your complete fuel system and maybe replace your tank. You may also have to upgrade your electrical system/alternator to support the extra current load of the FI and electric fuel pump. With EFI it's easy to tune and make changes. If you get a distributor that works with the EFI it's easy to change advance curves. If your tank is rusty, fuel lines rusty and rubber rotten you may have to fix all of it to make your carb work properly as well. Some FI systems injectors make a mechanical clicking sound almost like solid valve lifters that you might find objectionable.

With a quadrajet the car is more original and can drive just as well if properly tuned. The only exception might be drivability for the first few minutes in very cold weather. I love the sound of the large secondaries opening up on a quadrajet.

Almost two years ago when I bought my 1980 TA the cold weather drivability was terrible. It wouldn't stay running without feathering the gas. Sometimes hot or cold fuel would overflow from the carb vent and it would stumble occasionally. I was told from the person I purchased the car from that the carb was recently rebuilt. I found a bad choke pull off was part of my problem and ordered a rebuild kit from https://cliffshighperformance.com. When pulling my carb apart I found lots of crap / sediment inside and the float was not properly installed. When done all my carb and fuel system issues were resolved. Cliff has an outstanding reputation, will rebuild your carb if you are not up to it but has a long waiting list. I have heard he is thinking about retiring or maybe selling his business. I never needed any assistance from Cliff but have heard he is very willing to provide tech support.

[b_hill_86]

And just food for thought, I’m not sure what the OP and other folks mean when they say cold weather. Pretty subjective depending on where you’re from but just last week we had days with highs in the low 30s but dry and I had my car out. Just has a q jet with a choke and it runs just fine. I personally will never drive it in much colder weather. My point being, it’s certainly achievable regardless of which direction you’re taking.

[5th T/A]

Good point regarding temperature is all relative. The OP said it runs great cold and bad hot without mentioning ambient air temps. He maybe way rich, especially it he is seeing wet plugs. Some people install O2 sensors to help tune for A/F ratio. I would think if it’s that rich something has be be way off. Someone more knowledgeable than I should be able to offer some suggestions.

[Vroom_vroom]

Good point, anything in the 70s and under is “cold” for ambient. I’d love to keep the q jet but it’s beat me up pretty good. I have talked with the carb builder a few times and didn’t get far. Ironically I grew up a couple miles from cliff🤦‍♂️ should have had something set in by osmosis.

I have thought about a wide band a time or two. Would be the definitive answer to is it really rich or not.

[scarebird]

I run the ProFlo 4 on my Lemans - starts every time within a second.  Installation is complicated of course.

Another option is this:

https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/summit-racing/part-type/carburetors?PageSize=50&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Reviews are superb; a friend used one on his 67 FB and loves it.

[roadking77]

When I had my 77 motor built I talked to the guy about FI just because it seemed like the way to go. He talked me out of it, said a properly tuned Qjet would run just fine for what I wanted to do with the car. Cruise nights, occasional run around etc. Prob less than a 1000 miles a year. He was right. I am perfectly happy with the tune on the car. I too wont run it much under about 30deg but I had it out a few weeks ago when the temp was between 30 and 40 and the car had never run any better. It loved the cool air as opposed to driving in hot weather.

I have even contemplated on putting FI on my tata but keep going back to Q jet for originality. I think if its tuned right the carb is good. I have also heard a lot of good things about FI as well.

[aussieta]

not sure on proflo4
i used proflo2
utter garbage, tech support were useless
may as well have been trying to explain technical issues to a child
my local stores would not even order it for me as they said it was too difficult to deal with edelbrock when there were problems
now using megasquirt and much happier, tech support has been superb

[jonathonar89]

With the money you have tied up in an SMI carburetor, I would try dropping in one of the new Progression Ignition distributors.  Fully tuneable HEI from your phone.  This will probably make your life much easier by tuning the timing from a table on your phone….just like the efi computers.

https://progressionignition.com/shop/ols/products/pontiac-v8-hei-distributor

After actually dialing in your timing, you can start playing with the carb tuning.  Quadrajet rods are super easy to change around.  Jets on a Quadrajet can be accessed by removing the lid of your carb while it’s on the engine.

[Vroom_vroom]

Oh now that distributor is cool!

[b_hill_86]

I’ve been interested in one of those progression ignition distributors for a while. I’m having trouble pulling the trigger just cause of the cost and I’m afraid they’re new enough they could fold but they look REALLY cool.

[jonathonar89]

I’ve been interested in one of those progression ignition distributors for a while. I’m having trouble pulling the trigger just cause of the cost and I’m afraid they’re new enough they could fold but they look REALLY cool.

The good news on that subject is that if they were to fold, you can always switch back to a normal HEI.  The benefit is you literally don’t modify anything.  Plugs right into your stock harness and vacuum line.

[b_hill_86]

Yea, you’re right but that’s a good chunk of change to throw away if the product doesn’t last. I already planned on keeping the other distributor in the trunk so I don’t get stranded somewhere lol

[jonathonar89]

Yea, you’re right but that’s a good chunk of change to throw away if the product doesn’t last. I already planned on keeping the other distributor in the trunk so I don’t get stranded somewhere lol

I know it’s a concern to think if electronics fail but often times computers work.  Many HEI chip modules from the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s still run today.  Very rarely does a computer actually burn up.

[b_hill_86]

Good point. If I sell some parts listed I may decide to be the guinea pig and pick one up.

[Jack]

My biggest issue is that the car sits for a long time without starting/driving it which is not good for the carb. I wouldn't change it though just clean and retune.

[tiggershark]

My 79 T/A ( powered by a 406 SBC chevy) Has a Sniper unit on it. Went with a new gas tank so that the pump is quieter inside than a frame mounted inline unit. The ones outside the tank are louder. The gas tank install was the hardest part as I ran into a couple of fittings that leaked on top so I had to drop the tank more than once. It wasn't the fittings fault, it was me over tightening and cracking a fitting, ( actually the fitting was part of the pump $$) next time I was more careful but didn't tighten enough. Plumbing the fuel lines with a return line is time consuming. You have to run the gas lines out the front of the tank, over to the frame rail, loop it backwards towards the tail lights ( so that you have enough if the tank has to be removed) and then forward, keeping it away from the exhaust. Next is welding a bung in the collector for the O2 sensor. Wiring wasnt a challenge at all. Once you get that far, the unit pretty much bolts on and you start the car. I would never go back to a carb. You turn key on, wait till the pump stops running and start it. It has a hand held screen that you can adjust your idle from inside the car. It runs great. Previously it had a Holley 750 electric choke unit on it. Cold blooded as hell, once ethanol was common, I had to jet it differently and often. It hesitated midrange. Bigger squirters added, jets, different power valve a;; made it run better but not perfect. Buddy put the Sniper unit on and thats when I knew I wanted it too. It isnt cheap, especially with a new  gas tank and the pump that goes with it. Today's its 29 degrees outside, it will fire instantly and run. High idle for about 7 or 8 seconds( 12-1300rpms) and then to the set idle ( 750 rpms) The screen stopped working after 10 months. Called Holley for assistance and the sent a new hand held unit to me, free. retail is over $300. Buddy has 4 years on his and not a single problem. Im not positive if Holley makes a spread bore style( Q-Jet) unit.

[lskip10]

I put the Holley Quadrajet setup in mine and never looked back, 3 years no problem, replaced tank. Fires right up, idles great, doesn't matter what the temp is , it runs. I was tired of heat related starting issues constantly tinkering with the carb. Nice thing with that unit no mods needed for shaker.

[SoupMan]

Holley Sniper EFI.

My previous carb was probably junk and needing tuning. I don't have enough experience with them to tune them properly. Installed the sniper EFI, I actually ran the return directly into the existing setup by drilling a hole in the top plate of the sending unit (that way I didn't have to drill in the brand new tank I just purchased). If it was a redo, I would get the submerged pump. Took about 8 hours to install (That's everything tucked away, soldered wires and clean install)

Pros:
- First time I turned the key after the carb was installed, it started
- Easy start all the time. Quick turn of the key an boom she goes
- You get information from the dashboard

Cons:
- You need a place for the display...
- You need to add a relay so that when you turn the key you have clean power coming directly from the battery (This was my experience). Relay is activated by "starting" since I was only getting 9v on that wire. Could just be I'm an idiot
- Not a direct fuel hookup. In my case I kept the 3/8 supply line and replaced the return with the 3/8 hose included in the master kit. I didn't want  to risk being too small on the return.
- Can be expensive when compared to the carb

[Vroom_vroom]

well looks like ill take the plunge when i put the car away this summer, pro flo here we come. a multi port poncho is just too much of a sell for me i need one. i kept going back and looking at the programmable distributor but i feel like its 10 years too late and the cost could go to the fuleie set up.

fwiw a friend brought up a solid thought on that distributor. his first reaction was it looks like a speed master dizzy, i doubt there are making there own vs buying one and putting there electronics in it?

[scarebird]

I may be selling my setup this next month or so.  I am looking at 5.3 L84 with 6L80E in my Lemans to replace the 440P in it.

[Vroom_vroom]

I may be selling my setup this next month or so.  I am looking at 5.3 L84 with 6L80E in my Lemans to replace the 440P in it.

Send me a pm if you decide to change your set up.

[scarebird]

Will do.

[Vroom_vroom]

Well I feel about half stupid. Might have been missing part of the puzzle on why my car had its issues. My alternator has been an old worn out 63 amp that would let my voltage drop below 12 when my fans come on and ran 12.5ish when not. My starter checked out so I got a new gear reduction one and a new 100 amp alternator. Keeps things at 14.3 and never goes below 13.5 I can’t believe how much better it runs with the proper voltage at the distributor plugs are not wet and it is not blowing “soot” all over my driveway on cold starts. Pulls harder higher up the rpm band now as well. Hopefully it will continue when the weather heats up but I don’t ever remember it running this hard even in the winter.

[EscapeRacing]

Couple things, I am not the guy talk you off the fuel injection ledge as I did the Sniper Quadrajet in my 79 with a 403. I did a pretty in depth writeup on it with pics on this forum - you can search for "Sniper EFI Quadrajet on Olds 403" or here is the link - http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=83449.msg1106#msg1106

Vroom_Vroom - I will also be selling mine pretty soon here, as well as everything else attached to my Olds 403 as I have finally taken the plunge and I'm doing a 6.0 LS swap. The LS is almost done and then I will be parting out the EFI and everything else.

[Vroom_vroom]

i appreciate the thought but honestly that kit is not for me, im sure someone on here would love to run with it!