Let the games begin....

[jonathonar89]

Great day for me today and I think some will enjoy seeing.  Sold my '98 BPM Trans Am last night and made room in my new garage to start working on my '79 Trans Am again.  Now that I'm down to just owning this one, the '79 will be at my full concentration.

Here is the big messy pile of parts I started with last night after I got the other car out.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

Once I was able to get in the garage this evening, I did some organizing for a bit and then took the fenders, core support and control arms off...then centered it up in my garage.
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

After the car was stripped down up front I started doing an LS swap mockup with my spare "parts engine".  Bolted my 4spd up to my 5.3 LS with the Silver Sport Transmission bellhousing and then threw on my 1" setback plates and UMI solid motor mounts.  Got a little late doing all this but it's nearly in.  I just have to double check and see how everything tightens up.  So happy that the UMI mounts worked though.  I tried two other brand mounts that were sold under my application but neither worked.
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Congratulations, you really got a lot done in one day!

[Jack]

Signed up. Great progress, can't wait to see more.

[roadking77]

I like your enthusiasm. The concrete hadnt even cooled off and you were already starting the next build  .

I kinda like the way the 3rd gen wheels look on the silver car.

[jonathonar89]

Thanks for the interest guys.

roadking77, my idea on this car has been to incorporate many of my favorite aspects of Firebirds in general.  I actually have an LS1 being finished up by someone right now and it will be mated to my original 4spd transmission.  The drivetrain should shave a lot of weight.  The wheels are 4 front 16x8 0 offset '84-'87 WS6 wheels I had refinished along with BFG Comp-2 255/50-16 tires.  I also have 3rd generation '87 GTA seats but I'm thinking I'm going to sell those and go back to original 2nd gen seats.  The 3rd gen works, they're super nice and I got them to fit the car but rears are not great for swapping and I want to have an easy/matching interior in the end.

Here was an update last week on my engine.  I should have it back within the next few weeks here.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[ryeguy2006a]

Looking great man! Major hurdle figuring out the engine mounts.

[Updated71]

I had those same wheels on my old 3rd gen.  Mine never looked that good though.  Looking forward to your progress!

[roadking77]

I had those same wheels on my old 3rd gen.  Mine never looked that good though.  Looking forward to your progress!

Me too, on my 85 T/A, I liked that style over the other that was available at the time. Motor is looking good.

[FormTA]

I am so glad to see this thread started! You have been on the sidelines of many builds and now we get to finally see yours commence! You have great start to it too!

[NOT A TA]

Good to see you're working on it!

Perhaps have upholstery for the 2nd gen rear seat made with the 3rd gen material and "look"?   I've done that type of thing in the past with other models of cars so I could have matching interior.

[jonathonar89]

Well guys,

I decided to take NOT A TA's advice here and bought a cheap rear 2nd Gen seat this evening because the rear 3rd gen seats don't fit these cars very well.  My plan was to use take the both 2nd/3rd Gen rear seats to an upholstery shop tomorrow to get a quote on transferring the 3rd gen seat material to my 2nd Gen rear seats.  While I was at the guy's place, he ended up having a set of Camaro seats he was trying to get rid of and gave them to me super cheap because he was desperately cleaning his garage out. 

Now that I have two full sets of 2nd and 3rd Gen seats, my new debate is which seat I actually want to use.  In either case, I need to use the 2nd Gen rear seat frame (not pictured).

1)  The GTA seats are awesome and I can get them to fit but it's a decent amount of custom work to get it right.  The fronts need custom fabrication for the seat brackets and the rears would need the 2nd gen seats custom-fitted with 3rd gen material to match correct.  This route would cost some money.  These seats have recline, cargo net, electronic air bolsters, adjustable headrest and adjustable lower cushion.  A downside is they're heavier and slightly smaller in width.

2)  The 2nd Gen Camaro seats I just picked up actually have frames that are in super nice condition and bolt in with barely any labor.  Mice ate the fabric but everything else is super nice and no rust at all.  Even the seat bottom wires are still intact.  These would look like crap now but I could sell the super rare 3rd Gen seats, fund the car more to get it running and restore them at a later date.  They're lighter but unfortunately don't have any features like the later model seats.


Decisions, Decisions, Decisions....hmmm

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[Jack]

I think for most the recline alone would be enough to make the decision.

[roadking77]

It all depends on what your end game is. If you want something to be factory, well you know what to do there. I am a purist at heart, but I think the 3rd gen seats would look pretty good. I would do what I could to make the tracks work. For the backs, if you could find fabric to match that would be ideal. It would bother me if the fronts didnt match the rears. Is it possible to recover the 2nd rear with the 3rd gen fabric off the seats you have?

Tilt is nice, I have back issues but never have a problem driving my T/A with stock seats.

[MNBob]

Seats are a personal preference item, you'll have to see what fits you and what you like.  I am really curious as to the cost of recovering, I am going to get some estimates this summer.

Ditto on the progress.  The new engine looks good; I like the color choice.

[jonathonar89]

Hey Guys,

No progress pictures this evening (phone died) but I dug into the project further than I intended this evening and needed to concentrate on what I was doing.  After speaking with Tobin at Kore3 this past week and ordering braided brake lines for my car, I ended up deciding I would like to try manual brakes with the 1" master cylinder I currently have.  Once I decided on that, I ordered a 70-81 F-Body manual brake conversion kit from manualbrakes.com.  The part this evening that pushed me beyond where I've gone before on these cars, is the brake assembly needed to be removed from the car to modify the studs so I can install proper studs for the master cylinder.  In order to do that, I had to remove the dash plate, steering column, and steering column/brake/clutch wires just to get the assembly out.  It was a bit overwhelming at first but it ultimately doesn't seem like it's too bad.  Now I just have to put it back together correct haha. 

I'm interested to see how this brake system turns out as I've never driven manual brakes before.  To recap, my setup is the 12" 1LE rotors on B-Body spindles, factory WS6 rear disc, Kore3 braided lines, 1" aluminum master cylinder, and manualbrakes.com conversion kit.

I'll post more pictures on this once I start getting to the installation portion.

[jonathonar89]

Made some slight progress this evening but took a lot of effort to get there.  Once I got the pedal assembly out the other night, I found I have to remove the studs which held the original booster.  They were welded on and it took a lot of grinding for me to get them out but I got them out.  My neighbor convinced me to take apart the assembly and bring it by his house to sandblast and paint it.  Hopefully I can bang that out before the weekend.

To add to my previous parts list for brakes, I called up Kore3 yesterday and ordered Hawk HP+ pads for front and rear as they said it would be a better compound for pedal effort and feedback on manual brakes.  This should be a fun setup between the Hawk pads, braided hose, 4 wheel disc, 12" 3rd gen rotors and manual master.  I'm not a parts-seller but I'm going to call this brake setup the "Super WS6" package haha. 

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[jonathonar89]

My neighbor got me convinced to using his sand blaster this evening.  I said I wouldn't get too into the weeds with this build but this was actually a fun project I was able to complete this evening. 
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

After I got done with the blasting, I used some OER Chassis Primer then finished with their Chassis Paint.  2 coats primer, 1 coat paint and heat gun in between each round to speed up the process.  I'm happy we got this done but now I have rusty looking pedals for a nice painted bracket haha
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[FormTA]

This how it begins, derailed right out of the gate. 
Same thing happened to me, but I'm glad it did, my car came out great and I'm sure yours will too. So, why manual brakes? I love my 4 wheel disk setup with the 4th gen rear and stock front. Stops on a dime, I can't see needing much more unless I was autocrossing it and would worry about brake fade. Looks great by the way, nice job!

[ryeguy2006a]

Wow, that turned out great!

[jonathonar89]

This how it begins, derailed right out of the gate. 
Same thing happened to me, but I'm glad it did, my car came out great and I'm sure yours will too. So, why manual brakes? I love my 4 wheel disk setup with the 4th gen rear and stock front. Stops on a dime, I can't see needing much more unless I was autocrossing it and would worry about brake fade. Looks great by the way, nice job!

Since I’m starting from scratch at this point, I was exploring buying a whole vacuum or hydroboost unit with everything (master/booster/prop) but those units were pricing at $275 or $1,000 respectively.  I was going to go that route and sell the 1” master cylinder I got from PTFB years ago but Tobin from Kore3 mentioned that the 1” master cylinder could be used manually if I wanted.  Since I had that on hand and there has been no interest from buyers in that part, I figured “why not?”.  He was saying that I may actually like manual brakes and it’s actually a good setup for cars that get spirited driving because feedback is better.  The downside with manual brakes is that everything is very sensitive in order to work right.

On a side note,  I had Hawk HPS pads and Tobin said they could work but I would be better off with the slightly more aggressive Hawk HP+ pads since the car is going to be manual.  He gave me a good sale price on those so I ended up pulling the trigger on front and rear HP+ pads. They’re supposed to be a little more noisy and dusty but the pedal effort will be reduced and feedback will be better.  This should be an interesting “super WS6” setup coming together that I was not planning on initially.

[5th T/A]

Pedal mounting bracket looks great. Even though it’s buried up behind the dash, I certainly understand where your coming from. When everything else on your car is done first rate, it’s hard to take shortcuts.

[Nexus]

Awesome stuff and signed up for the progress

I will eventually be doing something similar-ish to your build so I'm anxious to see your ideas unfold!!

[MNBob]

There is a night and day difference in that pedal bracket from the original photo.  I really need to get a blasting setup.  Great job!

[jonathonar89]

Went over to my neighbors house again for sandblasting this evening to work on my pedals and rear brake backing plates. For some reason, I was having issue with the media/equipment being really slow about removing the paint/rust. I was only able to clean up one backing plate but it still did not do a perfect job. Took forever and really frustrating but this is what I had to work with so I dealt with it for a 1-2hrs. Not much progress but it was something. We're picking up more media tomorrow so we'll see how it goes then.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[ryeguy2006a]

They look fine to me, but new media will definitely help. Does he have a water separator? If not sometimes when you run the compressor too much water gets in the lines. Try emptying the bottom of the tank too.

[jonathonar89]

They look fine to me, but new media will definitely help. Does he have a water separator? If not sometimes when you run the compressor too much water gets in the lines. Try emptying the bottom of the tank too.

He doesn’t have a separator.  It’s also a smaller tank so I’m sure I was killing that pump yesterday considering how long it ran.  We were talking yesterday about getting a bigger compressor from Marketplace or somewhere else.  The pedal bracket cleaned up easy but these thick rusty brake parts are much more challenging.

[FormTA]

If it works good at first and the starts to slow down it is as Ryan said, water is gumming up the media. Also, on siphon fes cabinets some debris that was blasted off can get stuck in the suction line. On siphon units you can block the output jet with your glove which will force air back down the pickup tube and clean out any foreign material (it also verifies the conection of the suction tube).
I have spent countless hours at work and home using blasting cabinets.

[jonathonar89]

Couldn't help myself but this is more of a "show 'n' tell" rather than a progress post tonight.  I got my Viking front coilovers and rear shocks that I ordered from Rodney at Suspension Geek today.  Man, I'm excited to run this setup.  Big cost for my budget but I'm happy I pulled the trigger.  I don't know the weight difference but I can definitely feel this front coilover setup is much lighter than the stock style springs and steel shocks.  Since I'm changing the weight of the car by couple hundred pounds and using the free-moving AFCO control arm bushings, I've been kind of wary about using generic shocks for my setup.  Now that this setup will be adjustable, I can dial it in to what the car will like.

In speaking with Rodney at Suspension Geek, I was originally intending on going with 550lb front springs like most small block applications but we ended up settling on trying out 450lb springs to start.  Since I'm going manual brakes, 1" engine setback, aluminum LS1 engine, keeping the T10 4spd transmission and low-friction bushings, the car is going to be lighter than most applications up front. 

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

I'm not sure if I showed this online before but my upper control arms were rebuilt a few years ago.  I disassembled them and Dave from PTFB helped me by installing the AFCO bushings, Moog offset cross shafts and powder coating them.  For anyone looking to have this work done by Dave, don't get any ideas haha!  He told me not to advertise this work from him because it's a hard job and it's actually more cost effective for buyers and himself to just to do new control arms.  I haven't actually used these uppers but they're pretty much as good as you can get with the offset shaft and low-friction no-deflection AFCO bushings.  When I had them worked on originally, I installed QA1 racing style ball joints but this evening I just swapped in standard height Proforged ball joints because I'm not trying to build a race car, as much as I think performance parts are cool.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[jonathonar89]

Got a set of Speedway Motors lower control arm reinforcement plates today.  I couldn't find anything specifically for '70-'81 control arms and these were stated to be made for '67-'69 control arms so they're going to need modification to fit.  My debate now is whether to install on the top side or bottom side of the shock mount.

Option 1- Cut the heck out of these things down to nicely fit on the bottom side.  I'm leaning towards this direction...
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

Option 2- Just drop them in the top side, plug weld, and redrill the plates to the stock shock location.  This route seems much easier but I would close up the available shock mounting length by 1/4".
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[jonathonar89]

Good amount of work done this evening while I had a few hours after work.

-Finished sandblasting the rear backing plates and pedals.  The backing plates did not blast out perfect but they ended up being about 98% clean.  There were just some spots that did not want to come out (I believe undercoating) and it would've taken hours more to get it right with the blasting setup I was using.
-Took the parts home from my neighbors place and quickly threw 2 light coats of primer on and then painted the parts.  All with OER Professional primer and paint.  Heat gun in between rounds to speed up the process.
-Reassembled pedals to the pedal bracket.
-Mounted the pedal assembly to the firewall for mock-up.
-Attached the clutch and brake pedals for testing.

My oh my, this is probably the first time the brake pedal has pushed a brake cylinder in, I'd guess, 7 years.  I still have a ton to go for getting the brake system tested, modified and installed but this was a big leap towards getting it done.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[ryeguy2006a]

Fantastic updates! The pedal assembly looks great and the manual brake MC looks right at home. When are you going to install the LS1?

[jonathonar89]

Fantastic updates! The pedal assembly looks great and the manual brake MC looks right at home. When are you going to install the LS1?

Thank you sir!

For the LS1, I'm going to mock up the z-bar bracket to frame alignment before pulling the 5.3.  I know haven't talked about it on the forum but I have that SDPC LS mechanical clutch bracket for the block.  I still haven't fully bolted in the motor mounts to 100% know that everything fully seats into place.  While that is being done, I plan on sandblasting the accessory bracket to prep for painting.  I sold the Holley single plane MPFI intake today and have the dual plane intake.

One thing you and probably many others have seen is that I have gone back and forth with how I'm finishing this engine.  I was going to do a carb setup, then the whole deal came along with EFI and now Holley is on major backorder with their Terminator X so now we're going back to building a carb setup.......and now that I ordered the carb LS controller, I found out yesterday those are backordered to May.  Atleast that beats Holley's anticipated July date lol  .  At this point, I'm just going to be patient, take my time and keep plugging away slowly through this summer to hopefully get the engine fired this year. 

We'll hopefully get it fired this summer.  I really want to get it running sooner than later so my engine builder can verify the engine is good to go.

[Nexus]

Great stuff so far

Looks great

[RamblerRacer]

Glad to see you are finally able to get after it.ill be watching the progress.

[darrylta]

Your engine builder doesn't have a test stand?
There are lots of dyno rigs you rent for a half a day.
I would have to think twice about using a builder that doesn't at least have a test stand
for break in and checking for leaks.
Darryl

[jonathonar89]

Your engine builder doesn't have a test stand?
There are lots of dyno rigs you rent for a half a day.
I would have to think twice about using a builder that doesn't at least have a test stand
for break in and checking for leaks.
Darryl

Funny story with how the engine build started.  I had two LS1 short blocks that I was selling right when I was moving to my new townhouse and planned on funding my Pontiac 400 at the time.  I had a young 21 year old guy show up to buy and when he came to buy a short block, he gave me a business card for his engine shop that he just started after going to school for engine/machine work down in Texas.  After some conversation, instead of selling him one short block, I decided to have him take both engines and he would basically do the labor for free to assemble one of them.  Since I had LS1 parts from a previous build, I figured I would give the kid a chance since he was getting an LS1 in exchange for labor to build another nice short block for me. 

The year prior, I was ripped off thousands by a "race engine shop" that has been in business since 1969.  That old man was a straight up alpha male but I was stupid to go to this place even after knowing others in my area have said the guy is a piece of work....expensive lesson learned there.  I told myself I would never deal with one of those shops again.

The young guy proved himself and came through in the opposite manner.  The young guy trying to start a business was motivated and excited to help me out.  Although he doesn't have a dyno like the old business, he has a block cleaner, oven, bridgeport, valve grinder and some other machines to do most work.  We did end up farming out some work like the block boring/balancing but he was able to get a good amount of the work done and brought me back an assembled/painted engine in the end.  I sold my 400 to help fund a lot of expensive parts but in the end, I now have a very nice built LS1. 

I will do another post showing all the specs on the engine again soon.

[roadking77]

Sounds like a good deal, and kudos to you for giving a young guy starting out a chance. Of course after hearing of your negative experience, doesnt sound like you had a lot to loose.

My builder is very experienced, he has 3 very busy auto shops and he doesnt own a dyno. He is a racer at heart and builds a lot of motors for guys but he does have a connection that has a dyno he uses on a regular basis. Last I talked to him he was getting ready to get one for himself though.

[ryeguy2006a]

...At this point, I'm just going to be patient, take my time and keep plugging away slowly through this summer to hopefully get the engine fired this year. 

We'll hopefully get it fired this summer.  I really want to get it running sooner than later so my engine builder can verify the engine is good to go.

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

But seriously, love that update. Keep with it and you'll get there. It's easy to get distracted or overwhelmed with a project, but if you keep doing a little bit here and there before you know it you're turning the key.

[jonathonar89]

...At this point, I'm just going to be patient, take my time and keep plugging away slowly through this summer to hopefully get the engine fired this year. 

We'll hopefully get it fired this summer.  I really want to get it running sooner than later so my engine builder can verify the engine is good to go.

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

But seriously, love that update. Keep with it and you'll get there. It's easy to get distracted or overwhelmed with a project, but if you keep doing a little bit here and there before you know it you're turning the key.

Yes Master.

I still haven’t found my keys from the moving process but hopefully they turn up as I get parts together 

[jonathonar89]

Fun update from yesterday.  Got my Holley carburetor intake from Suspension Geek.
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr


Today I got around to throwing some engine primer and Pontiac Blue paint on the intake. Before anyone roasts me on my paint job, I figured it would be best to leave the pad not masked since there usually is some area of the carburetor that does not fully cover the pad.
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

After messing around with the intake, my friend came over and worked on installing 8ft LED ceiling lights I pulled from my old house.  This new place had a non-functioning fluorescent light when I moved in and now this update/fix has made for a huge improvement in lighting.  The pictures don't do just but this will give an idea.  I was having hard to time getting my camera to focus but this is the install....
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr