Let the games begin....

[5th T/A]

Jonathan,

Motor looks great, I like that you’re staying with Pontiac paint color and old style intake. Having good lighting in your garage is invaluable, I would have been real nervous working over your car with that beautiful paint.

[jonathonar89]

Jonathan,

Motor looks great, I like that you’re staying with Pontiac paint color and old style intake. Having good lighting in your garage is invaluable, I would have been real nervous working over your car with that beautiful paint.

Thanks!  Yea, I'm pretty excited to do up this engine in an original 70's appearance.  A lot of people spend a lot on coil covers and other "old-school" dress up parts but I won't be going that far.  Aside from the carburetor, I'll mostly be doing stock LS stuff but painted to look like a 70's engine.

Man, I wish nice paint was the case haha!  I know some angles and distance make it look pretty but the car has rust in various areas and it would need a repaint to be nice.  It needs much attention on the body actually.  I won't be going that far in the near future but we'll see how life plays out.  Right now my main focus is mechanics and getting it functioning again.

[jonathonar89]

Got some time in the garage today.  Decided to wipe down my super grimy 5.3 valve covers and throw them on the LS1 to give more of a factory '79 W72 400 look to the engine.  Doing this job with brake cleaner and rags wass not fun but I got it done.  Results aren't the best, but it's something.  After I finished cleaning the covers, I wiped down the coils/brackets and put them on.  Followed up by spark plugs, wires and the oil filter to keep the engine sealed up.  Last night I cleaned/painted the steam tube from my 5.3 and put it on the LS1 as well.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[roadking77]

Looking great!  What did you paint it with?  Looks about the same colour as I used on my oil pan, hoping he paints the motor to match

[jonathonar89]

Looking great!  What did you paint it with?  Looks about the same colour as I used on my oil pan, hoping he paints the motor to match

Thanks Kerry!

Nothing exotic here haha.  Just some Dupli Color engine paint in Pontiac Blue.

[roadking77]

I would have to check, may be the same that I used.

[FormTA]

It's funny how just a color makes you think it's a Pontiac.  The throttle body will be the icing on the cake. Looks great!

[5th T/A]

Engine looks good. How does it compare in weight to a Pontiac 400? I am assuming several hundred pounds less, but have no idea.

[langss]

Thanks for the interest guys.

roadking77, my idea on this car has been to incorporate many of my favorite aspects of Firebirds in general.  I actually have an LS1 being finished up by someone right now and it will be mated to my original 4spd transmission.  The drivetrain should shave a lot of weight.  The wheels are 4 front 16x8 0 offset '84-'87 WS6 wheels I had refinished along with BFG Comp-2 255/50-16 tires.  I also have 3rd generation '87 GTA seats but I'm thinking I'm going to sell those and go back to original 2nd gen seats.  The 3rd gen works, they're super nice and I got them to fit the car but rears are not great for swapping and I want to have an easy/matching interior in the end.

Here was an update last week on my engine.  I should have it back within the next few weeks here.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

I have a set of those wheels, and was wondering what lug nuts you ended up using.Thanks.

[jonathonar89]

Got my carburetor today. 

I never thought this would happen but this was a crazy shopping experience that took about a week to figure out. In the beginning of shopping carburetors, I was set on getting a 650 for my LS1 and after searching around, I found the prices for standard Holley 650's are pretty expensive while being on back order.  Other brands such as Brawler or FST looked cool but on 1 month back order as well.  After digging through the catalog/online, I ended up finding Holley 750's are not as expensive as 650's.  I was surprised to see that so I started looking at a Holley 750cfm 4160 that I found for $385 but it was on backorder.  After calling in on that carb, I decided to search around a bit more and found an aluminum Holley 4150 770cfm Street Avenger priced at $505 and it was in stock with Holley.  After some contemplating, I decided to pull the trigger on it.  This one is about $175-$200 less than Ultra Street Avengers because of the cast blocks and baseplate (Ultra's are billet) but it has the aluminum body like the Ultra carburetors which are lighter. 

Holley 770 Street Avenger
-Vacuum secondaries
-Electric choke
-Quick-change vacuum diaphragm spring
-4150 dual metering blocks
-Aluminum main body, block and bowls
-clear sight bowls

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[jonathonar89]

langss,
For my lug nuts, I currently have to use metric tapered lugs for the front wheels because I have the "1LE Mod" which consists of using 90's B-Body spindles and 3rd Gen F-Body 12" front rotors which have the later metric thread pitch.  For the rear, I currently roll the car around with standard tapered lug nuts.  I have to do final fitment on the rear with the disc brake conversion because I'm using a rear end that came out of a Camaro.

5th T/A,
Your assumption should be correct.  Aluminum LS blocks are about 125lbs lighter than iron LS blocks which are similar in weight to Pontiac engines.  Factoring in aluminum heads, intake and carburetor, I would guess around 200lbs difference on engine.  To go further on this subject, I'm bolting the aluminum engine to my original 4spd transmission and doing a 1" engine setback on the frame.  My setup will probably be lighter than most LS swaps you will see because I'm not running a big/bulky overdrive auto or T56 transmission.  Manual brake swap should be another 20-30lb taken out of the car.  This setup should be as light and well-balanced as you can get without going too crazy on modifications.   I won't be doing things like striping out the door structure or fabbing aluminum core supports like some of the racers do.  These basic things I'm doing are enough for me.

FormTA,
Thanks!  I was actually planning on doing one of the classic Holley carburetors with the gold zinc coating but this polished aluminum body 770 carb fell right in the same price range, is lighter and was in stock for sale.  Not what I planned on initially but I think this is working out for the better.

[langss]

langss,
For my lug nuts, I currently have to use metric tapered lugs for the front wheels because I have the "1LE Mod" which consists of using 90's B-Body spindles and 3rd Gen F-Body 12" front rotors which have the later metric thread pitch.  For the rear, I currently roll the car around with standard tapered lug nuts.  I have to do final fitment on the rear with the disc brake conversion because I'm using a rear end that came out of a Camaro.

Thanks....I have several different sets of 3rd gen wheels and until I saw those on your car I had not considered them. I agree, they go very well with the color of your car.

[jonathonar89]

langss,
For my lug nuts, I currently have to use metric tapered lugs for the front wheels because I have the "1LE Mod" which consists of using 90's B-Body spindles and 3rd Gen F-Body 12" front rotors which have the later metric thread pitch.  For the rear, I currently roll the car around with standard tapered lug nuts.  I have to do final fitment on the rear with the disc brake conversion because I'm using a rear end that came out of a Camaro.

Thanks....I have several different sets of 3rd gen wheels and until I saw those on your car I had not considered them. I agree, they go very well with the color of your car.

For street-driven 67-81 cars, the 16” 3rd Gen wheels are a nice/cheap upgrade in my opinion.  16” tire selection isn’t the best but the offering for street performance tires is a lot better than what is currently available for 15”.  I don’t know of any Z rated 15” tires unless you go to a full race offering.

[langss]

For street-driven 67-81 cars, the 16” 3rd Gen wheels are a nice/cheap upgrade in my opinion.  16” tire selection isn’t the best but the offering for street performance tires is a lot better than what is currently available for 15”.  I don’t know of any Z rated 15” tires unless you go to a full race offering.
[/quote]Funny you mention that....I'm looking for some 16" tires for my 92 Camaro. I find the selection somewhat limited, but at the same time somewhat pricey. I'm sure I can find something that will work at a reasonable cost for a car that mostly sits.

[jonathonar89]

Got my new air cleaner yesterday.  Ordered a Spectre single inlet air box kit off Amazon for $95....$135 with the cold air intake tube and mounting bracket.  This is a cool piece because it's a drop base air cleaner that provides the minimum needed for Holley air cleaner clearance.  The fit is great as the 4" air intake has clearance in between the coil packs.  The one spot it's not clearing is it's barely touching the throttle bracket but I can address that easily with a grinder or bend.

As nice as this air cleaner is and I will use it, I do have a few points I don't like about it.  The biggest issue I have with this thing is it's advertised as an air box but the whole bottom is not sealed.  If you flip it over, the whole bottom is an open ring.  If you built a ram air or cold air intake system, it would all bleed out on the engine before entering into the carb.  The other issue I seem to have is the filter seams a little thin.  The filter will work but I was not expecting it to be so thin.  Guess I'm just used to thick factory type filters.

Overall, this air cleaner (I won't call it a box) is decent and good for the money.  After I paint it black, it will give a factory look but it's just not was expecting based upon how it's advertised and pictured.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[rvanbel78]

Nice progress. Looking forward to seeing the finish

[jonathonar89]

Small update for the engine. 

Picked up an adapter fitting to install the '79 style oil pressure sending unit in place where the LS engine oil pressure sensor usually goes.  This will get my stock '79 gauges to read oil pressure and I think this will be a better overall placement than stock for the oil pressure sending unit compared to the 70's Pontiac which was on the side of the block

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[MNBob]

1.  Taking weight off the car is always good and an aluminum block and 200 lbs off the front end is even better.
2.  Been reading and getting info on Holley carbs and it seems these are a lot easier to work with and tune that a QJ.
3.  Used the Duplicolor in GM corporate blue last summer and found it to be excellent.  Engine looks great.
4.  Air cleaner has good size snorkel and will look good in black - a stock type look.
5.  Sending unit should be perfect.  Paint it black or silver?

[jonathonar89]

1.  Taking weight off the car is always good and an aluminum block and 200 lbs off the front end is even better.
2.  Been reading and getting info on Holley carbs and it seems these are a lot easier to work with and tune that a QJ.
3.  Used the Duplicolor in GM corporate blue last summer and found it to be excellent.  Engine looks great.
4.  Air cleaner has good size snorkel and will look good in black - a stock type look.
5.  Sending unit should be perfect.  Paint it black or silver?

Thanks for the response!

-I'm pretty excited to see how this car feels with an aluminum top-to-bottom engine along with doing the 1" engine setback.  It will be as light as it can get along with the 4spd transmission.

-If you're interested in reading material on carb tuning, below is a good source for links to tuning carburetors with wideband/data logging..
https://innovatemotorsports.com/resources/carb-central.php

-I do have plans to do a black air cleaner but I'm waiting for it to heat up a little bit outside before I spray again.  We had a good few weeks of weather and then the past week and half got cold again.  In regards to the sending unit, I'll be leaving that in the anodized finish.  I think the sending unit looks very period-correct in the anodized finish.

-I haven't really put this out there on the forum but I'm in a little bit of a reaction mode with my health at the moment.  I'm concentrating a little more on myself outside of work before I get back on the car for a short time.  I feel fine but my liver enzymes weren't showing the best in December and I went on medication for a couple months for a foot fungus.  After I did some diet adjustments per doctor recommendation, I tested again this past month and apparently my liver numbers have gotten worse and the doctor will not prescribe me more medication for my foot issue.  I just scheduled a ultrasound in two weeks for my stomach and then I have another blood test coming up in June.  I feel fine but I'm keeping my fingers crossed in this department and hope I don't have something lurking internally. 

Jon

[5th T/A]

Take care of yourself Jon, nothing more important than your health. The car and truck will be waiting for you when you are up to the task. I will say working on a project can be a great distraction and stress relief if you are feeling decent.

[MNBob]

Ditto above comments.  I went through prostate cancer in 2013 so I know what health scares are like.  The good news is modern medicine can take care of most issues so just follow through with it.

[roadking77]

Jon, sorry to hear this, take care of yourself.

[jonathonar89]

Thanks for the words in regards to the health guys.  I've been better about the foods/liquids I put in my body but I still have a ways to go on the food side.  Since December, I have not had any alcohol and just started drinking coffee again in moderation the past month. 

I know I said I'm going to slow up from the vehicles but today I decided, "what the heck, why not?"  The CEO from the company I work for announced that all employees are receiving a $1,000 pre-tax bonus/support on our upcoming checks.  After this news, I ended up speaking with Dave at Pro-Touring F-Body and placed an order for some suspension parts I need.  Ordered his new steering shaft kit with the upgraded stainless steel joints, front/rear sway bar bushings and HD drop links.

This should be an exciting factory style suspension.  All little upgrades but highly effective without going overboard on money spent.

[roadking77]

Good Deal.

[jonathonar89]

Alright, got a chance to spray some paint on my air cleaner MNBob.  Also, bought blank knock-delete valley cover and painted it Pontiac blue.  Those two moves helped clean up the appearance a lot.
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

Let's switch gears to a different subject besides the engine.  I currently have convex 3rd gen wheels on the car but I have been disappointed with how my local Discount Tire had them refinished and one of the tires has been leaking air.  I haven't posted this on the forum but I ordered a set of Firehawk wheels that were on back order with Classic Industries.  After a few weeks of waiting, I found out the wheels I ordered apparently are under development with no ship date any time soon.

Since figuring that out, I decided to modify my order to OER 3rd Gen WS6 16x8 replica wheels.  These were not my first choice but the price was right and I think this new set is going to be what I want...an upgrade from original but a very factory appearing wheel.  I had the 17x9 snowflake wheels back in '08-'09 when they first were released but I wanted to try something different this time around.  These are 16x8 in silver and my car originally came with 15x8 in silver.  The silver WS6 3rd Gen center caps are perfect for how I'm trying to build the car. 

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

It was fun to open/inspect the wheels with my kid.  She was just saying, "car, car, car, car, car" while checking them out.
Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[roadking77]

Motor looks great, I have serious moto envy watching you, Ryan and Larrys threads!  Maybe someday I will have mine back
I like the new wheels they do look nice. But I am with you on the first choice. I thought the original set which I would call a bit convex were for the ws6 cars?  If thats what they were called. Back when I had my 86 I wasnt as versed in Trans Am lingo as I am now, I just know I loved the cars. Anyway, my 85 had the upgraded performance package (which I assume was akin to the difference between the 77 cars t/a 6.6  and 6.6 litre cars) which had the 'convex' wheels. Pretty sure the base model t/a had the wheels like the new ones you pictured.

[roadking77]

Sorry for the multiple post, I may have missed but are you planning on mounting the shaker to the hood? I dont see how it will fit to that air cleaner, which looks great btw.

[5th T/A]

Jon,

I like the look of the painted air cleaner, it makes a big difference.

Watching you daughter play on top of the wheel, brings back memories of when my girls would spend time with me in the garage.

[ryeguy2006a]

Looks great Jon! That motor looks amazing. Great attention to detail. Love pictures with the kiddos playing with cars. My youngest is about your daughters age and he does the same thing. "Car, Car"

[jonathonar89]

Motor looks great, I have serious moto envy watching you, Ryan and Larrys threads!  Maybe someday I will have mine back
I like the new wheels they do look nice. But I am with you on the first choice. I thought the original set which I would call a bit convex were for the ws6 cars?  If thats what they were called. Back when I had my 86 I wasnt as versed in Trans Am lingo as I am now, I just know I loved the cars. Anyway, my 85 had the upgraded performance package (which I assume was akin to the difference between the 77 cars t/a 6.6  and 6.6 litre cars) which had the 'convex' wheels. Pretty sure the base model t/a had the wheels like the new ones you pictured.

Yes, both are 3rd Gen WS6 wheels.  One set is convex and the new set is concave. That “convex” wheel first appeared on the ‘84 15th Anniversary Trans Am and ended production on ‘87 Formula WS6 cars.  The ones I have now were an option up until 1992 on the Formula WS6.

I really wanted the Firehawk 17x9.5 but production seems to not be happening right now.  The next in line were GTA wheels but those are not in stock either.  I guess no one wants these base model reproduction 3rd Gen Wheels.  I guess I’ll give them a whirl haha

[jonathonar89]

Sorry for the multiple post, I may have missed but are you planning on mounting the shaker to the hood? I dont see how it will fit to that air cleaner, which looks great btw.

Doing a Turbo Hood on the car.  Going for more of a later 3rd Gen look at this point.

[MNBob]

Motor looks great and so do the wheels!

[jonathonar89]

Well guys, upon further inspection, I did find a few dings/knicks on the wheels.  There was also some gouging around where the center bore is on two of the wheels.  I spoke with Classic and they’re giving me a refund.  It’s a shame.  I like these wheels but they have some dings on them.  It’s annoying and I didn’t even use them yet.  I would post pictures to show but I don’t want to waste my free Flickr memory before I have to pay.

[langss]

Well guys, upon further inspection, I did find a few dings/knicks on the wheels.  There was also some gouging around where the center bore is on two of the wheels.  I spoke with Classic and they’re giving me a refund.  It’s a shame.  I like these wheels but they some dings on them.  It’s annoying but I didn’t even use them yet.  I would post pictures to show but I don’t want to waste my free Flickr memory before I have to pay.

Sorry to hear of your troubles with the new wheels. I ran into the same thing a few years ago when I bought two of the GTA wheels. Fortunately I picked them up in person, and had to go through several boxes before I found 2 that were acceptable. Considering what they are asking for this stuff, I would expect the QC to be a little better. I bought a Bell Housing from them, and had to return it as well. It was cracked and welded and ground on......I had to wait almost a month until they got fresh ones to get again an acceptable one.   

[jonathonar89]

I ended up speaking with Classic Industries and they're giving me a refund.  I reboxed everything and shipped back on Saturday.

No progress on the car over the weekend.  My big concern for vehicles right now is getting the truck I just bought up and running.  I'm finding a bunch of issues with it and I'm lucky I have a neighbor who is a at-home mechanic come over and help me out.   

Aside from no progress, I did get some PTFB goodies today.  Heavy duty rear sway bar drop links, upgraded front sway bar bushings and the new PTFB steering shaft that eliminates the rubber rag joint.  I'm excited to eventually this installed.  Original WS6 sway bars but this will make the stock suspension much more effective along with better steering response/feedback.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[5th T/A]

Jon,

Between your car and newly acquired truck you sure have a lot going on. PTFB suspension and steering parts look high quality.

[FormTA]

I may have to try that steering shaft out. Keep moving forward Jon!

[ryeguy2006a]

Those are some nice parts! Keep it up man.

[jonathonar89]

Hey Guys,

Been a month since posting but I figured I'd share my big spend/upgrade on the engine.  This past month I returned my Holley carburetor and decided to switch to Holley Terminator EFI since aftermarket carb system ignition controllers have been on back order for a while.

This EFI setup is nice but I must say I'm hurting mentally for spending over $2500 and I am feeling the build cost now 

Time to regroup before the next push forward.

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

Untitled by Jonathon Randolph, on Flickr

[ryeguy2006a]

Looking good man! Get those mounts ordered so we can see that motor in the car!