Author Topic: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?  (Read 321 times)

Dinosaur Mafia

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Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« on: January 11, 2020, 04:57:55 PM »
Ladies and realistically the only gender I'm talking to, gentleman!

To make a long story short I took a gamble on a '78 T/A and lost big. The car isn't realistically savable in my situation and unless you have a bunch of fab tools + time, it's not really savable in general.
It has a Chevy 350, a TH350, ladder bars, I haven't jacked it up to double check and be 100% sure but it looks like its got a Ford 9" rear end. The Ford 9in, some interior parts and front clip will be what is saved off of this car long term.
After 10 posts and a rolling enough of a chassis that I'll keep, the rest will get parted out.

Here are some nice pictures and pictures that mark it 'no longer worth the effort to me.'
















Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2020, 05:17:08 PM »
The keeper car!

It's a '76 T/A, this also came with a fair amount of parts but they're all apart and spread out throughout my garage and a room in my house that is now dedicated car part storage.
I actually went to check this car out and it is properly savable. There are a few small spots of rot but for cars this age, that's totally normal and so far its nothing I cant handle. For pulling it out of a field, I'd say its in darn good condition!

I haven't actually done a lot to this car yet, I always forget how much moving sucks >:(
So far it's been cleaning the garage and a little bit of cleaning the car when it's justifiable. I empited out all of the parts that came with it, started to clean the windshield of all the primer over spray until I noticed a crack then promptly gave up and vacuumed out the car from all the dirt and dust that it was collecting.

Enjoy the pictures! or don't, it is ugly at the moment lol
PS: Take a peek at the last registration sticker!







Everything that is in here and more was in the car







aussieta

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 07:45:18 PM »
have you looked into swapping the t-top roof from the 78 onto the 76
put the 78 front clip on the 76, and get a new hood
best of both worlds
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

gm muscle

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 07:59:27 PM »
I'm sure you'll make some money by selling the 70-73 nose.
1977 Trans Am stroked 400 (468)
1989 Iroc-Z28 5.7 TPI 90K original miles
1987 Monte Carlo SS LS 2/4L65e
1997 Silverado 5.7 Z71 Single Cab, Short box (daily driver)

FormTA

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 08:37:52 PM »
Yes, I love that front end! Cool project!
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 08:37:52 PM »

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2020, 09:16:34 PM »
I thought about the swap, its not off the table since I think T-Tops are the doo doo^ but I can't say I know enough about the swap. The upsides/downsides, time involved, difficulty level armed only with a sawzall, angle grinder and flux core welder + poor welding skills, etc.
The 78 front clip on the 76 is part of the current plan, matching hood and appropriate year shaker are still planned only further down the road.

lol, 70-73 nose will be for sale soon

thanks for the kind words!

nas t eh

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 09:38:37 PM »
Looks like that 76 might have been one of the rare( sort of) 455 4 speed cars of that year. And that nose is a 72 with the one year only honeycomb grills. Nothing super valuable exactly but certainly not run of the mill either.
current
73 T/A 4speed
past birds
75 T/A 455 4speed
75 T/A 400 4speed

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 10:00:47 PM »
prev owner claimed it was a 455 4 speed car but the guy before him kept it for another car. I'll feel guilty turning a 4 speed car into an auto but I can't find a budget friendly trans that'll hold up to the power I want to make for anywhere near what I can get a similarly strong TH400 for.

I'll be spending some time in the whats it worth section once the 76 front end is taken apart

FormTA

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2020, 10:04:23 PM »
If you want to see the roof swap, check out that Formula  thread.  If you have to replace the glass then you're half way there.  Not much else in the way.

BTW, where are you located?
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Maxthe222

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2020, 11:23:48 PM »
Y'know what, fair enough. The '78 is toast. Not numbers matching, body is a write off, I mean i'd keep the VIN and tags etc. for someone who'd want to turn an esprit or something into T/A. After seeing it, that is definetly not worth saving. Doesn't look like it has many options and without the original driveline there is just no way doing even half the rust work would cover the sell price. Is it a marty blue car? I would also not scrap the '78 without saving the fisher roof. They do not reproduce that roof, and that roof could really help save another car etc.

One thing I will say is save that dash pad ASAP. The dash in the '78 appears to be uncut around the radio hole which is an extremely hard find nowadays.

With the '76, I don't know what I can do to convince you not to ruin a '76 455 4-speed that looks that nice, but it was the last year of the 455 and it's a very desirable combination that i'm sure alot of people would really vie to get. I'd hate to see it gutted into an automatic and swapped with a '77-78 nose. The white interior is also pretty rare so it's definetly not anothe car you'd see again soon. I am almost certain you'd be able to swap or sell the '76 for a sweet auto 77-78 T/A. You get a real '77-78 auto, and that '76 is saved. It seems like it is in really good shape, the rust on the floor is very common for these cars, the rust you see on the '78 is something i'd consider is abnormal. Sunroof is a period thing but hey if it works I wouldn't mind keeping it. It seems like an excellent project car, does it still have the original driveline in it?
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2020, 08:44:56 AM »
I was planning on keeping the roof from that car for a rainy day, that or it would be sold off to save another car.
Not sure how the Vin things would work out, I do have the title for the car.
Unsure on Marty blue, I'm not familiar with the paint code or what Marty blue even is.
Dash pad is getting pulled and likely sold, since I plan on flocking the dash anyways I'll do it to the ruined dash and leave the good one for someone who cares about the "purity" of their car.

The purity of the 76 is already ruined, the 455 and 4 speed are already long gone. It came a torn apart small block 400 and saginaw that's sitting in my house at the moment. The 76 nose was sold off to save another car. All of the plastics of the 76 are shattered, just touching them causes the plastics to break into a million pieces.
A cheap manual swap kit (t56 equivalent) would be the only thing that would convince me to keep it manual. Autos are just too cheap, comparatively, to build to hold the power I plan on making long term. Car is getting a turbo LS eventually, that's pretty much set in stone.

Unfortunately for these cars, no one was touching them. They're are more T/As and birds out there than people will ever restore. At least the 76 will be back out on the road again.

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2020, 09:22:24 AM »
If you want to see the roof swap, check out that Formula  thread.  If you have to replace the glass then you're half way there.  Not much else in the way.

BTW, where are you located?

VA beach area lol

Maxthe222

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2020, 02:43:12 PM »
Ohhhh if the driveline is gone that's a different story in my head I read it as it still has the 4-speed 455. I was gunna say that's odd someone would want to get rid of a 455 and a manual. Ok that justifies it a bit more. What colours are you planning on going with for the interior and exterior?
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2020, 04:17:40 PM »
lol nope, if it still had a 455 and 4 speed I'd be looking into building the muncie and an EFI kit for the 455.

stilll planning on a bandit-esque car, not a full blown replica. black exterior and all the gold paint, probably a black interior unless a different color tickles my fancy at the correct moment. The white does look sharp, its just completely destroyed inside the 76

Maxthe222

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 02:48:09 AM »
I just noticed the '78 has a roll cage in it, is it a branded one or just some sort of fabricated one?
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 02:48:09 AM »



Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 09:28:18 PM »
looks like a cage builder was hired to me.

Anyways, didnt get as much progress as I would have liked this weekend. got all of the wheel locks off by grinding away the edges just enough to hammer a socket on and twist

started on the rust removal inside the car but didn't get very far. the plastic sponge looking wheels are what I'm using at the moment, they seem to be very aggressive against rust but not take away as much material as a wire wheel. Next weekend when I get a little farther with that I'll vacuum it out again, use my air compressor to blow it clean and hit it with the rustoleum rust converter stuff

pics will come at a later time

firebirdparts

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2020, 10:32:28 PM »
Welcom to TAC!  Those look better than I thought they would.
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

Jack

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2020, 05:30:49 AM »
Cool project, and having a second car will help. Personally I'll keep the 72 nose as I think 70 to 73 are the best looking birds.




Regards, Jack

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2020, 06:31:06 AM »
Neighbors reported me to the city, they think that none of my cars run. All but the birds are completely fine/functional, now I get to fight with the city  :x

Thanks for the kind words!

Jack

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2020, 06:44:13 AM »
What's wrong with having parts car or none running cars on ones property? We always had none registered cars in the driveway, the city does not like them on the street but no issues with having cars without tags in a private driveway.




Regards, Jack

NOT A TA

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2020, 11:22:02 AM »
There are rules against unregistered vehicles in many areas. Where I live now we're only allowed one unregistered vehicle visible from the street and it has to be covered. Also not allowed are any boats, jet ski's, or any type of trailer whether covered, registered or not, and absolutely no parking on city streets of any of those types of things either including business trucks like box trucks, flatbeds, and rack body trucks. Although I've been cited by the city in the past for having my 24' enclosed in the driveway more than three days I'm OK with the rules. It keeps neighborhoods looking nice. Otherwise here there would be all sorts of watercraft, mud bog trucks, race cars on trailers, landscape business trailers,  etc. everywhere.

Do NOT fight with the city, just don't be that guy. I'm often on the other side also and if you give the municipal people grief it will make your life difficult. Be nice and explain you weren't aware that you MIGHT have been breaking any rules. Explain what you're doing and ask for their suggestions to stay within the regulations. Annoying them will only make them remember your property address and if you ever need a permit for anything you'll wait........ And if you try to do something that's in the gray area of requiring a permit without one, you'll get a stop work order, and then wait......for permit approval.

Keep your property looking as good as when purchased and better by improvements if possible. You parking what appears to neighbors as junk cars visible from the street just lowered their property values and you're new so they're setting a precedent right away to keep you in line. I'd do the same thing they did except I'd go talk to you and explain the rules and expectations before calling code enforcement in.

Tomorrow I'm going to code enforcement at city hall and turn in one of my neighbors (he expects it). He has three unregistered vehicles (one smashed) parked in a no parking area across the street from his house. He's a renter and they're offenders more than property owners. Renters are a lot more likely to let property go downhill in appearance because they don't have anything to gain by maintaining the property or keeping the area nice looking. This guy flips cheap cars ($500.00-$1500.00) and while I really don't care about that he blatantly disregards the rules (which he's aware of) by parking lots of unregistered cars in front of the house (like 10-12) on the lawn and in the no parking area as well as completely blocking the sidewalk with a large school three houses away knowing there's a hundred walkers that need to get by twice a day. Since the cars aren't titled to him the city can't prove he's flipping the cars without a license and he knows the city has no legal way to stop him. When he wants to get rid of a car he can't get proper paperwork for he'll park it in front of my house knowing I'll have it removed immediately. They're usually cars I've seen at his house a month or more (without moving) so I know they're his. My mission tomorrow has been prompted by his immediate neighbors who asked me to go to code enforcement about the three cars because I know the city employees, speak English, and  know the codes.
John Paige
Lab-14.com

scarebird

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2020, 11:57:39 AM »
lol.  I had a neighbor whose dad though he could run a body shop out of his attached garage.  He told me there was nothing I could do about it.  Half hour later the fire dept. showed up; he started flipping them crap - it did not go well for him.

FormTA

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2020, 12:29:52 PM »
I sure am glad I live in the country (less then a half mile from town though).

We all have nice house and I don't mind a car or two siting outside but we have space between us. There are only 11 houses on our road. Now, you start a viable junk yard and that would cause some issues. One or two sitting out, I would let slide but I agree,  don't fight the city. That will not end well. I also don't get the no trailer thing... jetskis, boat, enclosed trailers, all fine by me.

That said, I built another barn to put more stuff in...
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

roadking77

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2020, 03:06:43 PM »
I would have to agree with Not a TA, Maybe put pack the parts car as tight as possible to the garage and put a fence around it? I bought a parts car from a guy in NJ that had the township come down on his collection. He was along a busy road in a commercial area though. He had about 30 or more firebirds of all years in various states of condition, from rusty rollers to something that needed a bit of gas in the carb to get it on the road. He had a large lot with a high privacy fence and you could not see what was in there from the road, but the township still got him. At the time I got my car he had something like 30 days to get rid of everything or it was going to the crusher!
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Maxthe222

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2020, 06:42:04 PM »
Wow I hear about that all the time from the states. Land of the free, huh? My Fire Am would have been crushed by, now that's really sad to hear you can't even work on your own cars on your own property. Imagine you're 20 and want to build one of these at home and your parents are using the garage. What are you going to do? Buy another house? If you had the money to buy a house the car would've been done. Those HOA sound like really lousy people. I've only heard of stories where the power is abused and they want some dystopic atomic family perfect neighbourhood like out of a 1950's movie. So even if the car is in your backyard you have to get rid of it? What crock. People dump cars in the street in Australia, and they get towed after months and months people have cars in pieces on their lawns all the time around here. Even if your neighbors house looked like a wreckers, people would still claw to buy a house in Sydney here as it's pretty expensive.

That being said, it sounds like NOTATA's advice is sound. I can't imagine taking on bigger people than you with more power than you might ever had would be a good idea. The whole thing about a permit and them going to take extra long to approve it etc is SOOO true, it's a tough situation to be in but I hope you can keep the cars somehow.
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Dinosaur Mafia

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2020, 09:54:24 PM »
I get it, no one wants to live next to the guy with a whole bunch of cars that don't run and never will; it brings home values down. However I brought a 86 D150 that sat for 10 years out of the grave and passed state inspection while living out of a hotel. Whoever reported me should've come and knocked on my door. I'm sure we could've figured out a solution to the problem without getting the authorities involved, IMHO its always best to solve things with the least amount of drama/people involved; it goes along with the KISS method. Keep it simple stupid.
My property doesn't look unkept or dirty in anyway shape or form, if there is daylight left when I come home tomorrow I'll post up a few pics of what you can see from the street. I think it's honestly one of my immediate neighbors who got worried when I had 6 cars delivered before a month was up; again I get the concern, but for the love of god. Come talk to me first for christ sakes, most people are reasonable and will come to a compromise 99% of the time. I am no exception to that rule. Do they think that just because I'm younger the first thing I'm gonna do is give them the bird and do my own thing with no regard for anyone else? Sorry if I offend anyone on this forum, but every single boomer in my neighborhood had the hardest time in the world wrapping their head around the fact that I bought my house over renting one out.... SIMPLY BECAUSE I'M 24!!!

By fight the city, I meant put tags on the car, video the cars running and come into compliance just long enough to have the 'charges' dropped. The second they're dropped I'll build a fence and have my personal 'junkyard' beyond prying eyes. Thank god I have a couple friends in the area willing to let me park the car on their street as soon as I get tags on the car, otherwise this would be a much more difficult task to get beyond.
I have 2 cars parked on the street that are perfectly functional, one in the garage and three parked on my side yard/driveway. It doesn't look terrible IMHO but I'll let y'all give constructive criticism on how it looks.

@maxthe222, yea its part of living in a 'upper class' neighborhood in the US. Retired folk here tend to have nothing better to do but get into each others business, I get that they want a nice place to be but in my experience, they tend to appeal to authority before 'nut-ing up' and confronting the person they have an issue with first. Tucson, San-Angelo or Newport News
Europeans, at least in Rhineland Pfalz - where I lived, are the exact opposite. They'll tell you your hair looks like scheisse before you can even say good-morning.
The trade off of living in the states is worth it though, the convenience factor alone is a major plus in day to day life. The lack of staring is another one, building code in the US is miles ahead of the K-town area I was a apart of. The only downsides are the autobahn in areas that make sense to be unlimited, round-a-bouts in lower traffic roads, doner kebab and the 'ring. Being able to travel europe was neat too, though slightly overhyped once you've been to a half a dozen places.
I do NOT miss the TUV, being harassed by polezei every few months, the hidden traffic cameras painted olive drab, lack of firearms, lack of free speech, how expensive it was and rather poor infrastructure.

Maxthe222

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #26 on: Today at 06:46:35 AM »
....but every single boomer in my neighborhood had the hardest time in the world wrapping their head around the fact that I bought my house over renting one out.... SIMPLY BECAUSE I'M 24!!!

Ok boomer



Nah jk you're not that much older than me. So you went from Europe to the USA, bought some T/A's and property before you turned 25? Dawg I haven't even finished one of my cars let alone moved across the world lol D/W we get that down here too. You'll find that everywhere you go. If you play it in the most mature way and make sure you have the city leave you alone legally, have your cars properly stored and tagged, there won't be anything else they can do to you. Until you find out which neighbour was the one complaning and you let that straightpiped 6.6 rip that outside their house at 2AM  :P (Don't forget to take the plates off and kill the lights so they can't prove it was you!) Any further actions they take wether it be complaing to the city or complaining about your birds you could consider as harrasment, so long as you don't retailate and demonstrate proper courtesy.


1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

nas t eh

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #27 on: Today at 07:41:32 AM »
DM, I hope the plan works and you get to move on and fix all those cars. I agree we boomers are Not very trusting of other generations and this is just wrong. It’s too bad they didn’t come to you first, I bet something could have been worked out.

It’s great that you were able buy in a nice neighbourhood, but besides the higher purchase price, these days in many parts of The US and Canada they do come with a number of self imposed rules to keep them nice.
current
73 T/A 4speed
past birds
75 T/A 455 4speed
75 T/A 400 4speed

roadking77

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Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #28 on: Today at 08:12:26 AM »
DM, Boomer here, but I do try to be open minded. I want you to get this resolved so I can see a resto thread get started. I live in a nice 'hood and we have a hoa on paper only. It was never ratified and no one follows it. There has been enough turnover that I would bet some of the newer peeps dont even know it exists, thankfully. I would have to admit though that I am THAT guy with the S###hole! I have a large shop/barn that I run my contracting business out of and have equipment stored outside. Its mostly hidden and in the summer with the growth of the brush its not seen at all. I keep waiting for the day that someone asks me to clean things up.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #28 on: Today at 08:12:26 AM »
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