2020-B2-4

Author Topic: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?  (Read 1905 times)

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« on: January 11, 2020, 04:57:55 PM »
Ladies and realistically the only gender I'm talking to, gentleman!

To make a long story short I took a gamble on a '78 T/A and lost big. The car isn't realistically savable in my situation and unless you have a bunch of fab tools + time, it's not really savable in general.
It has a Chevy 350, a TH350, ladder bars, I haven't jacked it up to double check and be 100% sure but it looks like its got a Ford 9" rear end. The Ford 9in, some interior parts and front clip will be what is saved off of this car long term.
After 10 posts and a rolling enough of a chassis that I'll keep, the rest will get parted out.

Here are some nice pictures and pictures that mark it 'no longer worth the effort to me.'
















Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2020, 05:17:08 PM »
The keeper car!

It's a '76 T/A, this also came with a fair amount of parts but they're all apart and spread out throughout my garage and a room in my house that is now dedicated car part storage.
I actually went to check this car out and it is properly savable. There are a few small spots of rot but for cars this age, that's totally normal and so far its nothing I cant handle. For pulling it out of a field, I'd say its in darn good condition!

I haven't actually done a lot to this car yet, I always forget how much moving sucks >:(
So far it's been cleaning the garage and a little bit of cleaning the car when it's justifiable. I empited out all of the parts that came with it, started to clean the windshield of all the primer over spray until I noticed a crack then promptly gave up and vacuumed out the car from all the dirt and dust that it was collecting.

Enjoy the pictures! or don't, it is ugly at the moment lol
PS: Take a peek at the last registration sticker!







Everything that is in here and more was in the car







aussieta

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 619
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 07:45:18 PM »
have you looked into swapping the t-top roof from the 78 onto the 76
put the 78 front clip on the 76, and get a new hood
best of both worlds
1978 Y84 W72 WS6
A Camaro looks like it could kick your ass.
A Trans Am looks like it's coming over to do it

gm muscle

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2175
  • Down but not out!
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 07:59:27 PM »
I'm sure you'll make some money by selling the 70-73 nose.
1977 Trans Am stroked 400 (468)
1989 Iroc-Z28 5.7 TPI 90K original miles
1987 Monte Carlo SS LS 2/4L65e
1997 Silverado 5.7 Z71 Single Cab, Short box (daily driver)

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4064
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 08:37:52 PM »
Yes, I love that front end! Cool project!
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2020, 09:16:34 PM »
I thought about the swap, its not off the table since I think T-Tops are the doo doo^ but I can't say I know enough about the swap. The upsides/downsides, time involved, difficulty level armed only with a sawzall, angle grinder and flux core welder + poor welding skills, etc.
The 78 front clip on the 76 is part of the current plan, matching hood and appropriate year shaker are still planned only further down the road.

lol, 70-73 nose will be for sale soon

thanks for the kind words!

nas t eh

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 09:38:37 PM »
Looks like that 76 might have been one of the rare( sort of) 455 4 speed cars of that year. And that nose is a 72 with the one year only honeycomb grills. Nothing super valuable exactly but certainly not run of the mill either.

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 10:00:47 PM »
prev owner claimed it was a 455 4 speed car but the guy before him kept it for another car. I'll feel guilty turning a 4 speed car into an auto but I can't find a budget friendly trans that'll hold up to the power I want to make for anywhere near what I can get a similarly strong TH400 for.

I'll be spending some time in the whats it worth section once the 76 front end is taken apart

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4064
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2020, 10:04:23 PM »
If you want to see the roof swap, check out that Formula  thread.  If you have to replace the glass then you're half way there.  Not much else in the way.

BTW, where are you located?
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Maxthe222

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2020, 11:23:48 PM »
Y'know what, fair enough. The '78 is toast. Not numbers matching, body is a write off, I mean i'd keep the VIN and tags etc. for someone who'd want to turn an esprit or something into T/A. After seeing it, that is definetly not worth saving. Doesn't look like it has many options and without the original driveline there is just no way doing even half the rust work would cover the sell price. Is it a marty blue car? I would also not scrap the '78 without saving the fisher roof. They do not reproduce that roof, and that roof could really help save another car etc.

One thing I will say is save that dash pad ASAP. The dash in the '78 appears to be uncut around the radio hole which is an extremely hard find nowadays.

With the '76, I don't know what I can do to convince you not to ruin a '76 455 4-speed that looks that nice, but it was the last year of the 455 and it's a very desirable combination that i'm sure alot of people would really vie to get. I'd hate to see it gutted into an automatic and swapped with a '77-78 nose. The white interior is also pretty rare so it's definetly not anothe car you'd see again soon. I am almost certain you'd be able to swap or sell the '76 for a sweet auto 77-78 T/A. You get a real '77-78 auto, and that '76 is saved. It seems like it is in really good shape, the rust on the floor is very common for these cars, the rust you see on the '78 is something i'd consider is abnormal. Sunroof is a period thing but hey if it works I wouldn't mind keeping it. It seems like an excellent project car, does it still have the original driveline in it?
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2020, 11:23:48 PM »

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2020, 08:44:56 AM »
I was planning on keeping the roof from that car for a rainy day, that or it would be sold off to save another car.
Not sure how the Vin things would work out, I do have the title for the car.
Unsure on Marty blue, I'm not familiar with the paint code or what Marty blue even is.
Dash pad is getting pulled and likely sold, since I plan on flocking the dash anyways I'll do it to the ruined dash and leave the good one for someone who cares about the "purity" of their car.

The purity of the 76 is already ruined, the 455 and 4 speed are already long gone. It came a torn apart small block 400 and saginaw that's sitting in my house at the moment. The 76 nose was sold off to save another car. All of the plastics of the 76 are shattered, just touching them causes the plastics to break into a million pieces.
A cheap manual swap kit (t56 equivalent) would be the only thing that would convince me to keep it manual. Autos are just too cheap, comparatively, to build to hold the power I plan on making long term. Car is getting a turbo LS eventually, that's pretty much set in stone.

Unfortunately for these cars, no one was touching them. They're are more T/As and birds out there than people will ever restore. At least the 76 will be back out on the road again.

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2020, 09:22:24 AM »
If you want to see the roof swap, check out that Formula  thread.  If you have to replace the glass then you're half way there.  Not much else in the way.

BTW, where are you located?

VA beach area lol

Maxthe222

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2020, 02:43:12 PM »
Ohhhh if the driveline is gone that's a different story in my head I read it as it still has the 4-speed 455. I was gunna say that's odd someone would want to get rid of a 455 and a manual. Ok that justifies it a bit more. What colours are you planning on going with for the interior and exterior?
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2020, 04:17:40 PM »
lol nope, if it still had a 455 and 4 speed I'd be looking into building the muncie and an EFI kit for the 455.

stilll planning on a bandit-esque car, not a full blown replica. black exterior and all the gold paint, probably a black interior unless a different color tickles my fancy at the correct moment. The white does look sharp, its just completely destroyed inside the 76

Maxthe222

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 02:48:09 AM »
I just noticed the '78 has a roll cage in it, is it a branded one or just some sort of fabricated one?
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 02:48:09 AM »


2020-B1-8


Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 09:28:18 PM »
looks like a cage builder was hired to me.

Anyways, didnt get as much progress as I would have liked this weekend. got all of the wheel locks off by grinding away the edges just enough to hammer a socket on and twist

started on the rust removal inside the car but didn't get very far. the plastic sponge looking wheels are what I'm using at the moment, they seem to be very aggressive against rust but not take away as much material as a wire wheel. Next weekend when I get a little farther with that I'll vacuum it out again, use my air compressor to blow it clean and hit it with the rustoleum rust converter stuff

pics will come at a later time

firebirdparts

  • Jedi Council
  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18869
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2020, 10:32:28 PM »
Welcom to TAC!  Those look better than I thought they would.
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

Jack

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11059
  • 1971 Esprit TA Clone W72 1972 Formula 68 350 HO
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2020, 05:30:49 AM »
Cool project, and having a second car will help. Personally I'll keep the 72 nose as I think 70 to 73 are the best looking birds.




Regards, Jack

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2020, 06:31:06 AM »
Neighbors reported me to the city, they think that none of my cars run. All but the birds are completely fine/functional, now I get to fight with the city  :x

Thanks for the kind words!

Jack

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11059
  • 1971 Esprit TA Clone W72 1972 Formula 68 350 HO
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2020, 06:44:13 AM »
What's wrong with having parts car or none running cars on ones property? We always had none registered cars in the driveway, the city does not like them on the street but no issues with having cars without tags in a private driveway.




Regards, Jack

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2020, 06:44:13 AM »

NOT A TA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3445
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2020, 11:22:02 AM »
There are rules against unregistered vehicles in many areas. Where I live now we're only allowed one unregistered vehicle visible from the street and it has to be covered. Also not allowed are any boats, jet ski's, or any type of trailer whether covered, registered or not, and absolutely no parking on city streets of any of those types of things either including business trucks like box trucks, flatbeds, and rack body trucks. Although I've been cited by the city in the past for having my 24' enclosed in the driveway more than three days I'm OK with the rules. It keeps neighborhoods looking nice. Otherwise here there would be all sorts of watercraft, mud bog trucks, race cars on trailers, landscape business trailers,  etc. everywhere.

Do NOT fight with the city, just don't be that guy. I'm often on the other side also and if you give the municipal people grief it will make your life difficult. Be nice and explain you weren't aware that you MIGHT have been breaking any rules. Explain what you're doing and ask for their suggestions to stay within the regulations. Annoying them will only make them remember your property address and if you ever need a permit for anything you'll wait........ And if you try to do something that's in the gray area of requiring a permit without one, you'll get a stop work order, and then wait......for permit approval.

Keep your property looking as good as when purchased and better by improvements if possible. You parking what appears to neighbors as junk cars visible from the street just lowered their property values and you're new so they're setting a precedent right away to keep you in line. I'd do the same thing they did except I'd go talk to you and explain the rules and expectations before calling code enforcement in.

Tomorrow I'm going to code enforcement at city hall and turn in one of my neighbors (he expects it). He has three unregistered vehicles (one smashed) parked in a no parking area across the street from his house. He's a renter and they're offenders more than property owners. Renters are a lot more likely to let property go downhill in appearance because they don't have anything to gain by maintaining the property or keeping the area nice looking. This guy flips cheap cars ($500.00-$1500.00) and while I really don't care about that he blatantly disregards the rules (which he's aware of) by parking lots of unregistered cars in front of the house (like 10-12) on the lawn and in the no parking area as well as completely blocking the sidewalk with a large school three houses away knowing there's a hundred walkers that need to get by twice a day. Since the cars aren't titled to him the city can't prove he's flipping the cars without a license and he knows the city has no legal way to stop him. When he wants to get rid of a car he can't get proper paperwork for he'll park it in front of my house knowing I'll have it removed immediately. They're usually cars I've seen at his house a month or more (without moving) so I know they're his. My mission tomorrow has been prompted by his immediate neighbors who asked me to go to code enforcement about the three cars because I know the city employees, speak English, and  know the codes.
John Paige
Lab-14.com

scarebird

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
  • Parts vender
      • Scarebird Classic Brakes
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2020, 11:57:39 AM »
lol.  I had a neighbor whose dad though he could run a body shop out of his attached garage.  He told me there was nothing I could do about it.  Half hour later the fire dept. showed up; he started flipping them crap - it did not go well for him.

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4064
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2020, 12:29:52 PM »
I sure am glad I live in the country (less then a half mile from town though).

We all have nice house and I don't mind a car or two siting outside but we have space between us. There are only 11 houses on our road. Now, you start a viable junk yard and that would cause some issues. One or two sitting out, I would let slide but I agree,  don't fight the city. That will not end well. I also don't get the no trailer thing... jetskis, boat, enclosed trailers, all fine by me.

That said, I built another barn to put more stuff in...
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

roadking77

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10481
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2020, 03:06:43 PM »
I would have to agree with Not a TA, Maybe put pack the parts car as tight as possible to the garage and put a fence around it? I bought a parts car from a guy in NJ that had the township come down on his collection. He was along a busy road in a commercial area though. He had about 30 or more firebirds of all years in various states of condition, from rusty rollers to something that needed a bit of gas in the carb to get it on the road. He had a large lot with a high privacy fence and you could not see what was in there from the road, but the township still got him. At the time I got my car he had something like 30 days to get rid of everything or it was going to the crusher!
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Maxthe222

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2020, 06:42:04 PM »
Wow I hear about that all the time from the states. Land of the free, huh? My Fire Am would have been crushed by, now that's really sad to hear you can't even work on your own cars on your own property. Imagine you're 20 and want to build one of these at home and your parents are using the garage. What are you going to do? Buy another house? If you had the money to buy a house the car would've been done. Those HOA sound like really lousy people. I've only heard of stories where the power is abused and they want some dystopic atomic family perfect neighbourhood like out of a 1950's movie. So even if the car is in your backyard you have to get rid of it? What crock. People dump cars in the street in Australia, and they get towed after months and months people have cars in pieces on their lawns all the time around here. Even if your neighbors house looked like a wreckers, people would still claw to buy a house in Sydney here as it's pretty expensive.

That being said, it sounds like NOTATA's advice is sound. I can't imagine taking on bigger people than you with more power than you might ever had would be a good idea. The whole thing about a permit and them going to take extra long to approve it etc is SOOO true, it's a tough situation to be in but I hope you can keep the cars somehow.
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2020, 09:54:24 PM »
I get it, no one wants to live next to the guy with a whole bunch of cars that don't run and never will; it brings home values down. However I brought a 86 D150 that sat for 10 years out of the grave and passed state inspection while living out of a hotel. Whoever reported me should've come and knocked on my door. I'm sure we could've figured out a solution to the problem without getting the authorities involved, IMHO its always best to solve things with the least amount of drama/people involved; it goes along with the KISS method. Keep it simple stupid.
My property doesn't look unkept or dirty in anyway shape or form, if there is daylight left when I come home tomorrow I'll post up a few pics of what you can see from the street. I think it's honestly one of my immediate neighbors who got worried when I had 6 cars delivered before a month was up; again I get the concern, but for the love of god. Come talk to me first for christ sakes, most people are reasonable and will come to a compromise 99% of the time. I am no exception to that rule. Do they think that just because I'm younger the first thing I'm gonna do is give them the bird and do my own thing with no regard for anyone else? Sorry if I offend anyone on this forum, but every single boomer in my neighborhood had the hardest time in the world wrapping their head around the fact that I bought my house over renting one out.... SIMPLY BECAUSE I'M 24!!!

By fight the city, I meant put tags on the car, video the cars running and come into compliance just long enough to have the 'charges' dropped. The second they're dropped I'll build a fence and have my personal 'junkyard' beyond prying eyes. Thank god I have a couple friends in the area willing to let me park the car on their street as soon as I get tags on the car, otherwise this would be a much more difficult task to get beyond.
I have 2 cars parked on the street that are perfectly functional, one in the garage and three parked on my side yard/driveway. It doesn't look terrible IMHO but I'll let y'all give constructive criticism on how it looks.

@maxthe222, yea its part of living in a 'upper class' neighborhood in the US. Retired folk here tend to have nothing better to do but get into each others business, I get that they want a nice place to be but in my experience, they tend to appeal to authority before 'nut-ing up' and confronting the person they have an issue with first. Tucson, San-Angelo or Newport News
Europeans, at least in Rhineland Pfalz - where I lived, are the exact opposite. They'll tell you your hair looks like scheisse before you can even say good-morning.
The trade off of living in the states is worth it though, the convenience factor alone is a major plus in day to day life. The lack of staring is another one, building code in the US is miles ahead of the K-town area I was a apart of. The only downsides are the autobahn in areas that make sense to be unlimited, round-a-bouts in lower traffic roads, doner kebab and the 'ring. Being able to travel europe was neat too, though slightly overhyped once you've been to a half a dozen places.
I do NOT miss the TUV, being harassed by polezei every few months, the hidden traffic cameras painted olive drab, lack of firearms, lack of free speech, how expensive it was and rather poor infrastructure.

Maxthe222

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 732
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2020, 06:46:35 AM »
....but every single boomer in my neighborhood had the hardest time in the world wrapping their head around the fact that I bought my house over renting one out.... SIMPLY BECAUSE I'M 24!!!

Ok boomer



Nah jk you're not that much older than me. So you went from Europe to the USA, bought some T/A's and property before you turned 25? Dawg I haven't even finished one of my cars let alone moved across the world lol D/W we get that down here too. You'll find that everywhere you go. If you play it in the most mature way and make sure you have the city leave you alone legally, have your cars properly stored and tagged, there won't be anything else they can do to you. Until you find out which neighbour was the one complaning and you let that straightpiped 6.6 rip that outside their house at 2AM  :P (Don't forget to take the plates off and kill the lights so they can't prove it was you!) Any further actions they take wether it be complaing to the city or complaining about your birds you could consider as harrasment, so long as you don't retailate and demonstrate proper courtesy.


1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

nas t eh

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2020, 07:41:32 AM »
DM, I hope the plan works and you get to move on and fix all those cars. I agree we boomers are Not very trusting of other generations and this is just wrong. It’s too bad they didn’t come to you first, I bet something could have been worked out.

It’s great that you were able buy in a nice neighbourhood, but besides the higher purchase price, these days in many parts of The US and Canada they do come with a number of self imposed rules to keep them nice.

roadking77

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10481
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2020, 08:12:26 AM »
DM, Boomer here, but I do try to be open minded. I want you to get this resolved so I can see a resto thread get started. I live in a nice 'hood and we have a hoa on paper only. It was never ratified and no one follows it. There has been enough turnover that I would bet some of the newer peeps dont even know it exists, thankfully. I would have to admit though that I am THAT guy with the S###hole! I have a large shop/barn that I run my contracting business out of and have equipment stored outside. Its mostly hidden and in the summer with the growth of the brush its not seen at all. I keep waiting for the day that someone asks me to clean things up.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2020, 10:00:18 AM »
@maxthe222 I didnt think about the harrassment thing, the mailman for the neighborhood is friendly with a bunch of people. I'll start with him next time he comes around and I'm home.

@nas t eh, me too. I've been emailing the inspector and he doesn't seem unreasonable. He basically told me to get tags and keep the car in on piece and I'll be good to go. Just wish I would've gotten a note or something. Once this blows over I'll build a 6ft fence to keep prying eyes away from me.
Just gotta go to the city and hand them three copies of my plan, there's no real restrictions on building a fence. I dont think there's even a fee, and if there is it's only $35

@roadking77  I'll get it fixed it's just a massive time sink and is only going to leave the broken down car in the side yard even longer.

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2020, 10:00:18 AM »

NOT A TA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3445
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2020, 12:18:32 PM »
Just a suggestion Nate.

Go visit the neighbors, introduce yourself and explain that you've been considering putting up a fence and ask them if they have any preference what type of fence you put up as you know they'll have to look at it just as much as you do. Tell them you're also considering other neighbors desires, budget,  as well as your spouses opinion so they won't necessarily get their choice. They may surprise you with what they say.

I'm painting my house now. Went to neighbors with the color charts and gave them a couple combinations to pick from. I'm colorblind so I really don't care all that much but they all picked my favorite anyway. Now they all feel like they got to pick the color. That kind of thing goes a long way when it comes time to paint a car or something that might not be quite legal. You don't want neighbors calling the city every time you might be in a gray area.

"Life" is starting to slow ya down. May's coming faster than you think!
John Paige
Lab-14.com

nas t eh

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 993
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2020, 03:14:29 PM »
I keep waiting for the day that someone asks me to clean things up.

To some extent I was that guy too.

But why push the limits on this type of thing and be the neighbor everyone wishes would move out. Spend some time and money( if needed ) to be the neighbor everyone wants to have around. Keep your place as tidy as you can and say hi to everyone, it won’t cost you much in the end. Why put your neighbors in the awkward situation of having to ask you to tidy up?

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2020, 06:54:44 PM »
I don't even want to think about the time sink that getting these has become.

This picture is how I now view the DMV, especially when it comes to 'title jumping' or importing a 1car


I guess I can start with the easiest car, the 76 'bird. Walked in with title and a bill of sale, walked out.

Next car was a small hassle but nothing impossible, 78 Opel Ascona B. Walked in with OG French title, bill of sale, customs documents, EPA documents, shipping documents, German registration, insurance docs and anything else I had related to the car. DMV worker looks at everything I have, picks up the French title and says "this isn't a title."
I sit there, argue with her a little bit and then finally ask "The car couldn't have gone through Customs without a title, what is the title then?"
DMV: *Picks up German registration that clearly says in both German and plain English "REGISTRATION" at the very top. no where on the registration does it say 'title'
Me: "It says registration on it, right there" *points to where it says registration
DMV: *picks up actual title "Well this isn't a title and this is the title you got from Germany" *as the registration is picked up
At this point both of us are a little frustrated and I give in. I wouldn't have if I knew what was coming next.


~~~to be continued after I pick up my wife from work

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2020, 07:22:54 PM »
So, I reluctantly agree that the paper that clearly says "registration" is the title. The next words I hear are, "Who is Sydney and what is your relation to that person?"
Me: "My wife"
DMV: "Ok well she needs to be in here to sign the documents since she's on the previous title"
Me, annoyed: "alright"

If I had known what I do now I would've just given them the registration that only had my name on it. The DMV is packed with people and is often a 2.5hr wait just to get something simple done there. Is it the season? Location? Not sure, but it's a terrible wait everytime I went there.

So I have to go back to work and wait for the proper day that my wife is off and then go back to the DMV.
Fast forward to when she's there, I turn in all the leg work from the day prior and we both sign the required papers and have the title to the Opel.
Finally, now at this point I just need to title the 78

FormTA

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4064
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2020, 07:43:42 PM »
Well, it isn't any better in Ohio, USA. If you don't have a notarized title then you don't have a car. It's almost impossible to get a new title unless you can contact the prior registered owner.  And yes 2+ hour wait even to just renew.  I renew by mail now... Looks like you're moving ahead.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2020, 11:47:40 PM »
maybe I'm looking back with rose colored glasses but I dont remember taking much more than an hour at the DMV in AZ hardly ever. They have some new rules with the airports and having IDs that aren't 12 years old so maybe that's got something to do with it. I know my AZ license is good until I'm 65 yrs old and I see this "real ID" thing everywhere out here in VA. If everyone is rushing to get their "real ID" then I understand the crazy wait times.

Anyways, the 78... the guy from NJ hadn't titled the car since he bought it in 2012 from a guy in Florida that moved back to Michigan? Odd story, but he had a bill of sale from the previous owner and the vehicle; I highly doubt that it was stolen or anything fishier than him trying to avoid a few bucks in taxes or just general laziness (same boat I'm in except that I was only a month or so not 7 years of not taking care of it). I walked in with both his bill of sale that he sent me but the prev owners bill of sale that he sent him.
I don't remember what the issue was the first time around but I basically wasted that entire day waiting to be called only for some reason that I can't recall. The second time I went to take care of it the lady wanted a bill of sale from the OG owner to me, which didn't make much sense to me since the dasiy-chain bill of sales lined up; well they lined up to me at least. Michigan man sold it to NJ man who sold it to me.
I contacted NJ guy who said he could try to find MI guys old contact info but promised nothing. I ended up tracking the vehicle to some dealership in Michigan from an address on the Michigan bill of sale paper. I asked to see if that dealership had any records of the car from 7 years ago but got no response. NJ guy still hasn't gotten back to me and I doubt he ever will, which is ok.
After wasting enough time that I figured was pointless I went back to the DMV again for the umpteenth time trying to get all the cars registered. This time I didn't even bother explaining a story to the clerk, handed the clerk the title, both bill of sales, the notes I took on the cars history and remained mostly silent. I was expecting a bunch of questions like I received the last couple times I went in for the 78 and the Opel. This woman must have been having a bad day or something, we barely spoke, she didn't glance at anything other than the title to make sure it was signed and then handed me a new VA title.

How much time was wasted on this? How much progress could I have made? Who really knows, at least I have a major part down on getting the city off of my back. Hopefully I can actually start work on the 76 T/A soon and have a barely working car in the summer. We shall see, I'll swap tires around on the cars and then send pictures via email to the inspector and wait for a response.

Nexus

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1338
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2020, 12:02:37 AM »
On the bright side,

You have an interesting story to go with the car.


I find anything government a pain in the you know what and I work for the Ontario government (Canada). Here, after a certain age of the car, we need to get it appraised before we can register it, just so they can get more out of you when they tax you on the value amount. Or they tax you on the sale amount, depending which is higher. At least this is how I believe it works. Been awhile since I had to do it here but that is my understanding.

Like a lot of other places, it has to be mechanically fit, not modified, safe to drive, etc. etc.

They have made it even harder to pass the inspections on older vehicles here as well but I can at least understand not wanting rusted, death traps driving around...still a pain


I hope it al works out wit your cars and I look for ward to following along as you get them back onto the road!
Charlie

79 Esprit but like many, it will be a T/A clone
(19 years and counting but still have her)

roadking77

  • Oracle Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10481
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2020, 08:11:28 AM »
Maryland is pretty bad, but our local dmv has a pretty good system, having said that I need to make a trip tomorrow to get my 'smart' license and cdl updated.
I get a kick out our states dmv, in order to comply with the 'real id' we need to provide a couple proofs of residency. I thought that the letter that the state sent out should be one of them!

DM, I had a couple of title issues, one resolved one still in the air. On one car the numbers were skewed a bit and the state said I had to have the original issue state correct. That was Maine. I contacted them and they dont even keep records going back, so that one is dead in the water at this point.
    The other issue I had was buying a car with a 'clean title'. When I picked up the car the owner 'forgot' the title at home. It was only a roller that I had planned to part so not that big of a deal. Then I decided to revive the car and he did send the title. ONLY it was a skip and showed at least 2 owners removed that I knew of. Wont convict myself in writing but luckily I did get that one to go through.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2020, 12:14:55 PM »
Car probably wont even be painted by summer.

I'm getting put through some training then night shifts and after night shifts I might be put into a new position (hopefully, I think it'll make work life substantially better)

I'll concede to the friendly side bet that NOT A TA's and I currently hold.
It doesn't mean I'll stop working on cars but it'll mean that I'll be doing smaller projects on already running cars.

Upping the boost on the 00 Focus, replacing the wifes bad 13c turbo on her Volvo to a bigger 15G (really soon, its her DD; half of the work is already done). Retro fit a radiator from a newer vehicle onto my 78 Opel Ascona and some small maintenance that my 86 Dodge truck needs.
If there is interest here, I don't mind updating y'all on the progress of each vehicle

Dinosaur Mafia

  • Active Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2020, 06:01:55 AM »
well, i joined firebird nation thinking it was this forum. oops!

Finally got off of nights, some cars were bought and sold, convinced a friend to buy a $1k 3rd gen T/A, helped him completely rebuild it etc etc.

lets see about the things mentioned in the last post... Instead of upping the boost, I tried to swap in a ST170 euro 'hot rod' motor into my car. I got it running fantastic under boost and part throttle but had a horrible time trying to tune the stock ecu at idle. I commanded the ECU to not look at speed density stuff and read off of the MAF only but under 1500rpm the ECU ignored my command and still tried to read off of the speed density tables. Thats the current theory anyways, I ended up getting another basic motor after I cracked 3/4 ringlands in the first basic motor earlier on. A coolant hose split in 3rd or 4th gear at 5k+ rpm at 10lbs of boost.... Temps spiked to at least 260*F. I figure thats probably what cracked the ringlands since the motor lives on more than fine at 10lbs. The 'new' basic motor is still bone stock w/ a re-used headgasket, t-t-y head bolts, bearings etc, the only change was I gapped the stock rings to ~ .028". So far its been good to me, although my dip stick shoots out the tube very often now... go figure! lol

The Volvo did end up getting a bigger turbo out of the UAE or Saudi Arabia, I bought the cheapest one on eBay since the stock 13c Turbo started to go. It was fun for a bit but at the first sign of the new, bigger turbo starting to go, I sold the car. Bought for $900 + $300 turbo/maintenance and sold it for $1600, made a couple bucks on her which was neat. I miss that car, and would like another one but it didn't fit the bill for what I needed at the time. Maybe I'll pick a ratty one up to throw its guts into the Opel, those little turbo engines are a ton of fun even if a little slow.

Opel's sat, afraid to touch since its relatively irreplaceable... I'll throw it in the garage eventually. It's my "one day" car that'll get done about 20 minutes before I die.

86 D150 had some basic maint done throughout the time I've taken a hiatus but it's in the process of being sold right now; to the same guy I convinced to buy a 3rd Gen. It's been a great truck and relatively reliable but when I needed parts to get her road worthy again... there's been a couple times where I was waiting 5 days to get them. Not a problem with a fun car, maybe annoying but not a problem, however with it being a DD, parts getter, dump runner, constantly used vehicle; she's getting sold. For a $700 truck I drug out of some guys field, I kinda feel guilty selling it. I've got about $2100 into her and I'm selling it for $1500, If the dang tires didn't have the sidewalls balloon on me I would've broke even on the truck.

In turn we picked up a 00 Silverado, nice truck, needs a rad and a trans solenoid replaced, of which I have both and plan to replace this weekend.

I'll try and get some pics of the 3rd gen and I'll post up the work I recently restarted on my car in my next post.

Re: Does combining a '76 and a '78 make it a '77?
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2020, 06:01:55 AM »
You can help support TAC!

 



2020-B1-3