Author Topic: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?  (Read 535 times)

roadking77

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Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« on: November 12, 2019, 01:47:55 PM »
2019-11-12_02-39-35 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr
This is an extreme closeup of the outer smoked taillight lense (79) I was attempting to paint. This is after the third time of sanding/scraping previous coats that went bad. Everycoat ends up this way or worse! Only thing I can think of is that the surface is not clean enough, any other thoughts?
I polished the entire thing with a product made by novus, then used the novus cleaner on the lense. Before I painted I wiped it down with paint/prep cleaner that I have been using before all of my painting with success. One lense I used an adhesion promoter one I did not. The one with the adhesion promoter seemed to be worse. I used Rustoleum paint for a couple of coats, then I used some SEM on one and it came out worse than the Rustoleum. I guess I will wait until its dry again, scrape it off, sand, clean good and try one more time. If not a new set of lenses are in my future.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

FormTA

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 03:17:53 PM »
Wow, that is crazy.  Try and sand a spot and clean with alcohol.  Then try.

Maybe try a black primer,  I know rustoleum has one in their auto line up.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Wallington

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2019, 10:05:25 PM »
It seems to be reacting with previous paint layers, which is why they are softening and wrinkling like when you use the wrong thinners. Multiple brands and paint types don't like each other, especially when fresh, not hardened by the years.

FormTA

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 05:51:41 AM »
That may be it. I had the same issue when I sprayed a rattle can clear of a different brand over a nice rattle can paint job.
 On my pool table.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

cyber104

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 06:49:16 AM »
"I polished the entire thing with a product made by novus"

I wonder if because the piece it so old it has become porous and you have loaded the pours with polish?

I'd stop scraping and have them blasted with some type of media (if possible) to really clear everything out.
1978 TA 4-Speed W72

Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 06:49:16 AM »

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 08:27:14 AM »
I think the Novus polish may be the  culprit. I took one part at the top that is pretty flat, scraped the bad paint off with a razor, hit it with 180 gr, cleaned it with paint prep cleaner, sanded again, cleaned again. It looked really clean, all of the old paint was off. Hit it with the rustoleum and BAM, right away it crinkled up again. I think im going to throw in the towel and order replacements. In the meantime I will try to clean the mess off of these.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 08:29:23 AM »
There was no previous paint, I had them cleaned down to the original plastic. On the one I used an adhesion promoter and rustoleum. After that failed I just cleaned the other and used the SEM. I have a broken lense I  think I am going to dig it out and spray it as is, see what comes out of that.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

FormTA

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 09:05:01 AM »
Dang, what a bummer. Those aren't cheap.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 12:33:58 PM »
Exactly, Im not too happy, considering one of these is from a very nice used set I just bought! I havent given up completely yet. Gonna try to get all of the paint off, then either leave them alone or try again. Im a bit picky and theres no way even after cleaning up the mess they will go on my car!!
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2019, 03:51:57 PM »
OK, saga continues. SO, I took a broken lense I had, wiped it down with a dry rag and nothing else. Hit it with the rustoleum and it did ok, however it did bubble/separate ever so slightly, but not nearly as bad as the other. On the other half I used my paint prep cleaner and wiped it down pretty good and used the SEM paint. This side turned out a lot nicer. At the time it was sprayed there was no distortion. I am thinking that the whole problem started with the Novus cleaner I used. I think that Chris is right in his diagnosis that there may be microscopic pores that the cleaner got into that is leaching out into the paint.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

FormTA

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2019, 05:36:19 PM »
After cleaning, try the alcohol (rum for you) than whipe down with rubbing alcohol. The alcohol should clean it. That product you used probably had silicone in it.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

T/A Daddy

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2019, 06:31:08 PM »
You seem to have pretty deep pockets Roadking - lol - they make new smoked lenses, I bought a set for my 79 403, auto, no tops --- I know not worth having for ( some peeps on the site.) but have the new taillight lenes  and grilles for it ( and straight rust free body)!  :cool: I do have some used sets to experiment with too! Thought about making some Knight Rider style lights. ( just for kicks a giggles!)

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2019, 07:13:55 PM »
I am looking at getting new smoked lenses only. I didn't know they were available until looking through my catalogue. Theres no way im lunking down $1k on new taillights!! I think the lenses run around $300 for the set, which is still way more than I want to spend. If I can get the paint cleaned off the one, I will be ok.  I still have one lense that's good.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

cyber104

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 06:52:08 AM »
After cleaning, try the alcohol (rum for you) than whipe down with rubbing alcohol. The alcohol should clean it. That product you used probably had silicone in it.

Yes - you are right - it was probably silicone.  But alcohol will not remove it.  The only product I've used that worked was DuPont 3812S.  We used that extensively when I was working at a restoration shop in the early 80's.

It looks like it's still available - but rather expensive.

Unfortunately Kerry I'm thinking you might be out of luck trying to work on the ones that were polished (or it might not be worth your time and effort).

Chris
1978 TA 4-Speed W72

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 07:52:31 AM »
Chris, I think you are correct. At this point I am going to try and clean the mess I made. I will check what paint prep I use, It is a replacement for the DuPont stuff.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 07:52:31 AM »

Billtech

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2019, 09:51:30 AM »
I have a set of lenses if you want them, one is missing the reflective strip on the bottom
1979 TATA 4 speed
1991 CBR600
1976 RD400

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2019, 01:24:52 PM »
Yea, if theyre decent I will take them. No problem with the reflector, I took it off the one I ruined and its intact.
pm sent
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Lewis

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2019, 04:15:11 PM »
Roadking, clean that mess off, Pick up Diamont D403 black tint and Diamont DC5-335 High solids clear. That is the key, the High solids clear. Clean with a wax and grease remover and mix the tint into your clear and apply coats until you like the shade. Will look like new part.
79 Y84 W72 WS6-NOW. 79 T/A W72 WS6 T-TOP. 79 T/A BLK 403. 79 T/A BRN 403. 75 T/A 400,AUTO WHI/WHI. 71 FORMULA RAM AIR 455 AUTO. 73 G/P 400. 71 G/P -J- 400. 69 G/P-SJ-428-4 SPD

FormTA

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2019, 08:21:06 PM »
He's not tinting them. It's solid black paint that defines the fins.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Wallington

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 11:55:00 PM »
The problem is still whatever is reacting under the paint, be it previous layers or cleaners. Frustrating that it often only shows up once half cured and after several coats. The new tinted covers look neat, but like anything actually done correctly and to carry a GM restoration part recognition, isn't cheap but also complete a car.

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2019, 08:06:45 AM »
DUMB question after all of this discussion. Am I painting the wrong part to begin with? The part referred to in this thread is the outside smoked 'cover', outer most part of the taillight. After looking at the 'inner' light whilst sitting on my work bench, I see that the top of each fin is painted matted black above the red lense.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

FormTA

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2019, 08:24:58 AM »
I'll have no idea.  I'll go look at the sets I have. I know I have a really nice original set.
79 Trans am 301 (work in progress) LS swap n progress
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (Work in progress)
See the recurring theme???

Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

Grand73Am

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2019, 10:01:35 AM »
It's the top surface of the ledges on the outer smoked lenses. You might can see the flat black paint on the top flat ledges in the picture of an unrestored original below. The black is about 5/16" wide. The black stops a little short of the tail edge of the ledge, so it doesn't overlap onto the rear edge of the "fin".

Also, Here's an old thread about 79-81 tail light restoring. The pics are screwed up by photobucket, but there's a lot of written info. http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=2660.0

79 ta blue camel r by grand73am, on Flickr
Steve F.

roadking77

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2019, 03:44:31 PM »
OK, that's the part I was working on. I just noticed that the inner light itself also had the black painted on the upper edge and had me second guessing myself.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Ford5of5

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Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 06:46:35 PM »
I had a similar situation when I used OER Color Coat on my steering column. Luckily it was only a single spot about the size of a penny on the underside of one of the cast pieces. I stripped all the castings in my blast cabinet. I cleaned with alcohol. Then moved up to acetone and even sanded a slight flat spot into the curvature but never got rid of the contaminant. I tried 4 or 5 times on the single casting before giving up.

It had to be something that I did because the origional paint was intact without wrinkles before blasting.

My brother got me the repro lenses for my b day last year. They look awesome and are safely packed away as I have drop and repaired my originals a few times now. They will probably be one of the last things I install on my car after paint.

Re: Paint blunder, what am i doing wrong?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 06:46:35 PM »
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