Author Topic: EFI  (Read 831 times)

79T/Aman

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EFI
« on: October 27, 2019, 12:50:36 PM »
ok, since there no longer is a search feature (that didn't work) I will ask this again, I know some have done TBI EFI conversions, I was looking at the MSD Atomic, seems to be the one and only with the least amount of complaints.
Any feed back on the E-street a bit expensive if you ask me, the sniper seems to have a bunch of problems even if you weed out all the installation errors, same with the FiTech.

The next question is what did you have to do to make the timing control usable on a Pontiac?
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71455formula

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Re: EFI
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 05:00:32 PM »
I have fitech, it works great and i love it. When their systems first came out they were finicky, but they've gotten better. They're the same height as a qjet which lets me run the factory ram air system on my car.
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76 Peach

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Re: EFI
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2019, 08:12:17 PM »
I have a Holley Avenger system, which is mostly untesteted (and discontinued),  however, the shop is pretty impressed with the FITech. I am unwilling to swap out the Holley investment at this point.
1976 50th Anniversary LE

737driver

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Re: EFI
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2019, 10:23:59 PM »
I did the MSD Atomic on my 79 TA and really liked it, however I’m sold on the the Holley EFI Sniper. I’ve put them on 2 Pontiac engine (350&455) and I have been really happy with them. However those cars are street cruisers but they do have some really decent performance. I like the Holley Sniper because the setup is really straightforward and in my opinion it works great and I haven’t had any issues with it.
Jim
1979 Trans Am- Heritage Brown -W72 (Pontiac 400) -4Speed-WS6
1972 LeMans Convertible
1977 Trans Am
1972 Firebird
1971 Firebird
1970 Firebird
1977 MGB  Roadster Convertible

gm muscle

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Re: EFI
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2019, 11:11:26 PM »
737driver,

Did you also install the computer controlled distributor?
1977 Trans Am stroked 400 (468)
1989 Iroc-Z28 5.7 TPI 90K original miles
1987 Monte Carlo SS LS 2/4L65e
1997 Silverado 5.7 Z71 Single Cab, Short box (daily driver)

Re: EFI
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2019, 11:11:26 PM »

Fbird

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Re: EFI
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 06:04:16 AM »
Mine dinosaur system is Holley Commander 950 (circa 2007) ...Any HEI distributor will do for "computer controled timing"  simply swap out the 4 pin module... IIRC you can even use the 8 pin to be 5 degree timing ~ to help an old 11:1 PONCHO get started.. ;)
67 Firebird
1980 Turbo TA (injected 400 now :) )

737driver

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Re: EFI
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 10:03:10 AM »
I used it on the MSD Atomic and it works really well. I haven't used computer controlled ignition with the Holley Sniper.
Jim
1979 Trans Am- Heritage Brown -W72 (Pontiac 400) -4Speed-WS6
1972 LeMans Convertible
1977 Trans Am
1972 Firebird
1971 Firebird
1970 Firebird
1977 MGB  Roadster Convertible

79T/Aman

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Re: EFI
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2019, 07:35:24 PM »
so what do you do to use the Pontiac distributor, what 8 pin module do you use? one from an early 80s Chevy?
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79T/Aman

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Re: EFI
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2019, 07:37:01 PM »
I did the MSD Atomic on my 79 TA and really liked it, however I’m sold on the the Holley EFI Sniper. I’ve put them on 2 Pontiac engine (350&455) and I have been really happy with them. However those cars are street cruisers but they do have some really decent performance. I like the Holley Sniper because the setup is really straightforward and in my opinion it works great and I haven’t had any issues with it.
Jim

I'm leaning towards the sniper Q-jet
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gm muscle

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Re: EFI
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2019, 07:51:17 PM »
I'm leaning that way too but Will there still be replacement parts when newer technology is available?
1977 Trans Am stroked 400 (468)
1989 Iroc-Z28 5.7 TPI 90K original miles
1987 Monte Carlo SS LS 2/4L65e
1997 Silverado 5.7 Z71 Single Cab, Short box (daily driver)

737driver

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Re: EFI
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 10:31:05 PM »
The Sniper Qj is a good replacement for the Qj, but like the MSD Atomic it will require an external fuel pressure regulator. However the standard Sniper and the MSD Atomic EFI will need a spread bore intake manifold ( or modified stock intake manifold). I had to use an adapter plate when I installed the MSD Atomic on my Pontiac 400. With that being said I had to use a dropbase shaker, it worked great without having to modify the stock intake. With the two standard Sniper EFI installs I had the stock intakes modified to mount with no adapter plate. On both I installed factory Ram Air Intake for the Formula hood ( similar on the LeMans hood). The only thing I had to do was add a 1/2” riser for the air cleaner.
If you are using a shaker or formula hood intake, and do not want to modify the intake manifold then the Sniper Quadrajet is the way to go, just have to add a fuel pressure regulator in the fuel line plumbing.
When I did my 79 with EFI , had the Sniper Quadrajet been available I would have gone that route, simply for simplicity sake.

Also, just as a personal choice, I don’t think it is really a big deal to control Ignition timing. Unless you have a specific reason to do it, in my opinion , if your distributor and timing are working good, why change it. However if the need warrants then it’s a good setup to do.

Jim

1979 Trans Am- Heritage Brown -W72 (Pontiac 400) -4Speed-WS6
1972 LeMans Convertible
1977 Trans Am
1972 Firebird
1971 Firebird
1970 Firebird
1977 MGB  Roadster Convertible

Fbird

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Re: EFI
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2019, 05:35:44 AM »
so what do you do to use the Pontiac distributor, what 8 pin module do you use? one from an early 80s Chevy?

no i think the 8 pin is like mid 90 stuff.....
4 pin is original...then they went 5 pin IIRC for "computer control"...

https://chevythunder.com/ignition_systems_hei_operation.htm

you will need to PHYSICALLY modify a PONTIAC HEI distributor. Simple 1976+ hei dist. remove MODULE (4 pin) and drill and tap 2 NEW hole to mount the module of choice on the FLAT are just like GM did (it's a heat sink....very very important to use the grease there to transfer heat).

ALL modules are looking for the same input (different abilities and pin locations). so no need to reinvent the wheel here. It has been YEARS since i even looked but a little searching goes a long way on which module does what. I do know one has a maybe 10 degree ~ capability (to help our TIMING LOVING PONTIACS ... start) Obviously if you are using electronic timing control you need to physically LOCK out the mechanical and vacuum advances.
67 Firebird
1980 Turbo TA (injected 400 now :) )

jonathonar89

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Re: EFI
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2019, 07:04:11 AM »
so what do you do to use the Pontiac distributor, what 8 pin module do you use? one from an early 80s Chevy?

no i think the 8 pin is like mid 90 stuff.....
4 pin is original...then they went 5 pin IIRC for "computer control"...

https://chevythunder.com/ignition_systems_hei_operation.htm

you will need to PHYSICALLY modify a PONTIAC HEI distributor. Simple 1976+ hei dist. remove MODULE (4 pin) and drill and tap 2 NEW hole to mount the module of choice on the FLAT are just like GM did (it's a heat sink....very very important to use the grease there to transfer heat).

ALL modules are looking for the same input (different abilities and pin locations). so no need to reinvent the wheel here. It has been YEARS since i even looked but a little searching goes a long way on which module does what. I do know one has a maybe 10 degree ~ capability (to help our TIMING LOVING PONTIACS ... start) Obviously if you are using electronic timing control you need to physically LOCK out the mechanical and vacuum advances.

80 was 5-pin

‘81 was when Pontiac engines got the 7-pin HEI that was actually 100% computer controlled. 

7-Pin HEI (large cap) operates exactly like 8-pin (small cap Chevy) through 1995. 

71455formula

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Re: EFI
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2019, 09:18:11 PM »
I had my fitech controlling my hei before. Worked very well. I'm thinking about setting it back up with this new motor.
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RamblerRacer

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Re: EFI
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 08:13:54 PM »
I’ve been running the FiTech Go 600 HP with the power adder option for a few years now.  It’s not the most sophisticated and you need to work on your own as the tech support is lacking.  I had serious issues with detonation. I know very little about the compression or cam.  I finally set up the ignition to work off the TB computer. It’s great and I dialed in the timing the motor wants, dropping it back a bit over 3000 RPM.  Nice to start your TA with just the twist of the key when it’s 30 degrees out and not have to dance on the gas pedal.  I made a air pan to replace the air cleaner base and a top piece to mount the shaker.  There are pics in my resto thread.  I think you will have to click on the link here

https://imgur.com/a/B2nbB0F


Re: EFI
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2019, 08:13:54 PM »



Jeremy

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Re: EFI
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 04:49:36 PM »
I'm running the FITECH with computer control of the timing.  I haven't had any issues that weren't traced back to me on something on the install.  With the number of people on the forums with the system, I haven't been wanting for tech support.  I've emailed FITECH a time or two and always gotten a response.

For timing control, I bought a compatible MSD distributor and phaseable rotor.  It was plug and play hooking up the distributor.  Phasing the rotor was pretty easy as well.

I really like the timing control as it has really helped with taming the RAIV cam.

Fbird

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Re: EFI
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 05:04:20 AM »
don't you just love that 041 cam......i have tried about 6 different "better" cams per recommendations (20 yrs ago) !!!!....even a custom solid lifter...only to re-install the (30 yr old ---then) 041 to get power back up to where it should be.
67 Firebird
1980 Turbo TA (injected 400 now :) )

79T/Aman

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Re: EFI
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2019, 08:13:42 AM »
I'm running the FITECH with computer control of the timing.  I haven't had any issues that weren't traced back to me on something on the install.  With the number of people on the forums with the system, I haven't been wanting for tech support.  I've emailed FITECH a time or two and always gotten a response.

For timing control, I bought a compatible MSD distributor and phaseable rotor.  It was plug and play hooking up the distributor.  Phasing the rotor was pretty easy as well.

I really like the timing control as it has really helped with taming the RAIV cam.

I was hopping to be able to control timing with the use of an HEI as I'm trying to keep the car looking period correct but also want to make it more modern and enjoyable on long trips, already have a TKO 5spd
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skisix38off

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Re: EFI
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 08:20:12 AM »
I'm running the FITECH with computer control of the timing.  I haven't had any issues that weren't traced back to me on something on the install.  With the number of people on the forums with the system, I haven't been wanting for tech support.  I've emailed FITECH a time or two and always gotten a response.

For timing control, I bought a compatible MSD distributor and phaseable rotor.  It was plug and play hooking up the distributor.  Phasing the rotor was pretty easy as well.

I really like the timing control as it has really helped with taming the RAIV cam.

I have seen recent video's from SEMA and you might look at Lokar- I think I saw something they just came out with that is what you are looking for.

I was hopping to be able to control timing with the use of an HEI as I'm trying to keep the car looking period correct but also want to make it more modern and enjoyable on long trips, already have a TKO 5spd

71455formula

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Re: EFI
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2019, 08:42:41 AM »
I was hopping to be able to control timing with the use of an HEI as I'm trying to keep the car looking period correct but also want to make it more modern and enjoyable on long trips, already have a TKO 5spd
[/quote]

I have used my fitech to control my hei timing. You have to lock out the mechanical advance and disconnect the vacuum advance. Then get the msd connector (msd-8861 on summit's website) that eliminates the control module. It'll plug right into the timing control of the fitech. I can't remember what gets grounded, but the guys at summit racing should be able to help.
1971 LS5 Formula. It's on the road finally!
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79T/Aman

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Re: EFI
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2019, 12:45:20 PM »
I was hopping to be able to control timing with the use of an HEI as I'm trying to keep the car looking period correct but also want to make it more modern and enjoyable on long trips, already have a TKO 5spd

I have used my fitech to control my hei timing. You have to lock out the mechanical advance and disconnect the vacuum advance. Then get the msd connector (msd-8861 on summit's website) that eliminates the control module. It'll plug right into the timing control of the fitech. I can't remember what gets grounded, but the guys at summit racing should be able to help.
[/quote]

Thanks, that is what I was looking for, I will be talking with Holley and FiTech as well.Thank you
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71455formula

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Re: EFI
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2019, 10:49:58 PM »


Thanks, that is what I was looking for, I will be talking with Holley and FiTech as well.Thank you
[/quote]


Fitech says it can't be done. I'm not sure about Holley. Wasn't impressed bout Holley customer service, but it's be 15 years since getting to deal with them.
1971 LS5 Formula. It's on the road finally!
2013 GMC Sierra 5.3l 6 speed Diamond White(sold)
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djustice

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Re: EFI
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2019, 09:04:18 AM »
I have no previous efi experience but watched with intrest as Fitech came along and made efi "more" mainstream with an affordable price, but not pulling the trigger waiting to hear/read and watch feedback from other people.
I finally went with Holley Sniper. And it was a painless install everything just worked if you follow the instructions to a the letter.
it was first true strat on the first reveloution of the starter the very first time, and it was dead even, not a miss or rpm fluctuation. it is set up to run out of the box, but the tune is not a fuel efficent one, it is set up so you can hop in and drive it.
The tuning aspect is great, a lot can be done with the handheld, but the true gem is the holley efi desktop/laptop software, pop out the SD card in the handheld controller after you export your base tune with learning and you can tweak it with endless posibilities.



*Note: i strongly suggest an tanks inc og similiar efi gas tank with in tank pump.
Next year i will install the brand new holley EFI distrbutor that goes with the sniper system, just announced a month ago https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/hyperspark_ignition/parts/565-314BK

My one complaint is the temprature sensor that read wrong out of the box, as with most other sniper efi user, i had to buy a generic GM coolant sensor, to get temprature enrichment and fantriggers to work correct, but that was like 25 bucks extra.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:18:40 AM by djustice »
1973 Firebird formula 400 W/YC code 455 (73 casting)
6x-8 heads, hyperfuel efi gastank, scorpion 1.5 Roller rockers, holley sniper efi, edelbrock performer inntake, Headman 28150 headers 1 3/4" primary, Pypes SGF11R exhaust, cam unknown, alu radiator w/twin 12" fans. Yukon duragrip posi w/3.42 gears.

hakitup

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Re: EFI
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2019, 09:47:28 AM »
I’m using the Sniper Quadrajet and timing control with my stock HEI. It took a little brain power to figure it out because you will be using the magnetic trigger to phase the rotor. This is the video I watch to understand what to do. I made my own manual adjuster that replaced the vacuum diaphragm because Pontiac rotates opposite of Chevy which you can buy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L9xRJKmaPwA

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jonathonar89

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Re: EFI
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2019, 04:39:27 PM »
I was hopping to be able to control timing with the use of an HEI as I'm trying to keep the car looking period correct but also want to make it more modern and enjoyable on long trips, already have a TKO 5spd

I have used my fitech to control my hei timing. You have to lock out the mechanical advance and disconnect the vacuum advance. Then get the msd connector (msd-8861 on summit's website) that eliminates the control module. It'll plug right into the timing control of the fitech. I can't remember what gets grounded, but the guys at summit racing should be able to help.
[/quote]

X2,

If you lock out the HEI, the MSD box plugs directly into the module connector....basically eliminating the chip.

71455formula

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Re: EFI
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2019, 09:50:24 PM »
I was hopping to be able to control timing with the use of an HEI as I'm trying to keep the car looking period correct but also want to make it more modern and enjoyable on long trips, already have a TKO 5spd

I have used my fitech to control my hei timing. You have to lock out the mechanical advance and disconnect the vacuum advance. Then get the msd connector (msd-8861 on summit's website) that eliminates the control module. It'll plug right into the timing control of the fitech. I can't remember what gets grounded, but the guys at summit racing should be able to help.

X2,

If you lock out the HEI, the MSD box plugs directly into the module connector....basically eliminating the chip.
[/quote]

With the msd-8861 you don't need the box.
1971 LS5 Formula. It's on the road finally!
2013 GMC Sierra 5.3l 6 speed Diamond White(sold)
2013 GMC Sierra Denali 6.2 6 speed AWD (sold)

Fbird

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Re: EFI
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 08:39:33 AM »
soo...the short story here about the HEI is....you remove everything and use the magnetic pick as a crank sensor .....hall affect switch .
67 Firebird
1980 Turbo TA (injected 400 now :) )

maxpowerta

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Re: EFI
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 12:37:01 PM »
so what do you do to use the Pontiac distributor, what 8 pin module do you use? one from an early 80s Chevy?
It's even easier than that, just get the  HEI from a 1981 turbo T/A it uses a 7 pin HEI module and was computer controlled from the factory, Currently $112.00 on rock auto for a reman unit.
I've been using one on my EFI 1976 455 T/A for years and it works flawlessly.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=27807&cc=1250873
1971 T/A 455 4spd, 1976 T/A 455 4spd, 1992 T/A Vert lb9 5spd, 1971 GTO 400 Auto

Fbird

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Re: EFI
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2019, 01:40:14 PM »
did the same with my Holley....in fact it was NOTED: to NOT do as i just desribed (use ONLY the pick-up) as creates alot of near field noise when routing the wires far away but any hei dist will work just swap the 4 pin for a 7 and wire accordingly IIRC the bolt holes are different for the module
67 Firebird
1980 Turbo TA (injected 400 now :) )

angelo

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Re: EFI
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2019, 01:55:32 AM »
I have an early FiTech unit on my Pontiac 400 with their early fuel control center (they have since changed it) and have not had issues.  If I could do it again I would not do the fuel control center, I would drop the extra coin and run the high pressure in take pump and be done. The FCC requires you to turn the key to run but wait for it to pump up pressure, then when it stops you can turn all the way to ignition. I opted for the control center that way going back to a carb would be easier, but once you go fuel injection you will not want to go back. I do not have issues with the fuel control center, but I have herd that is usually the hiccup point for most FiTech failures. I mounted mine on the core support where the factory put the charcoal canister.

Initially I was using an MSD 6AL2 programmable to control my timing, then for kicks I hooked up the FiTech (at that point it was as simple as plugging in the 2 wire harness to distributor, switch the coil wires and then setup FiTEch to control timing. To my surprise it managed timing pretty well so I sold the MSD 6AL2. The 6AL2 programmable was complicated, you had to ~ the timing not advance it because it is designed for turbo/boost applications. The only way to control it was with an old laptop with a serial port. FiTech really made that easier, i can tweak timing from the screen.

I also went all-in by modifying my factory intake, that way my shaker sits at the right height.

Only thing I wish you could do is set the timing points for setting the timing. Currently you have to set it at idle, 1,100, 3,000 and 6,000 based on vacuum. IF you do not run boost or a turbo 1 of the 3 vacuum timings do not mean much.

One other thing, I wish these kits included a knock sensor and could have a way to calibrate the knock vs the advance during light loads, that really be pretty sweet but maybe too complicated for an out of the box system.

Link to my FiTech install: http://www.modsandrods.tv/2015/08/25/fitech-throttle-body-go-efi-4-installed-in-project-trans-am/

My modification to the intake manifold to keep stock shaker height: http://www.modsandrods.tv/2016/08/30/modified-factory-pontiac-quadrajet-intake-for-square-bore-fitech-throttle-body-efi/

And most recent write up on where to find replacement parts for FiTech: http://www.modsandrods.tv/2019/09/06/fitech-efi-replacement-parts/
81' ex-Turbo converted to 78 Trans Am

71455formula

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Re: EFI
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2019, 03:45:12 PM »
I'm running the in tank pump and i still need to key it on for a second or two before firing it off. Should be the same with the fcc.
1971 LS5 Formula. It's on the road finally!
2013 GMC Sierra 5.3l 6 speed Diamond White(sold)
2013 GMC Sierra Denali 6.2 6 speed AWD (sold)

Re: EFI
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2019, 03:45:12 PM »
You can help support TAC!