Author Topic: power windows  (Read 275 times)

BlueByNight

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power windows
« on: October 19, 2019, 12:18:46 PM »
So I had to take a long brake from my project  78' TA. Finally have a decent garage space and my 16yo son is all in! We are working thru the wiring issues now. Its a manual lock, AC, PW car. We reconnected the motors in each door. The passenger side just clicked at first and then eventually began to operate up and down. The driver side just clicks but doesn't move. So the question is what are we dealing with? Locked up linkage? Screwed up tracks maybe? Bad relay? I noticed that adding relays seems to be the hot ticket but right now we just want get the factory stuff operating if possible.

roadking77

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Re: power windows
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2019, 09:29:20 AM »
Have you taken the door panels off? It may be 'frozen'. Best thing to do would be to take everything apart, including removing the window and starting at the beginning. Clean and lube tracks, and replace the rollers. Its pretty expensive, I think the kit is around $200 but that way everything will be new and work the way it should. I put in new motors as well but I think most will tell you that they should be fine. You can by pass the switch and hook the motor direct to see what is and what is not working. I use a battery charger with the black grounded to the door, connect the hot to each wire, one at a time. One is up, the other is down. This should at least let you know if the motor is working, and how well the regulator is working or not.  I put the relay setup in my car as well, dr. side worked great, I had problems with the pass side and figured the relay was bad from new, so I bypassed it and hooked the pass side up as per factory. Both windows operate the same.
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BlueByNight

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Re: power windows
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2019, 10:19:39 AM »
Ok thanks roadking. Yes door panels are off, my car doesn't have any yet. I'll do some research on how to remove the glass and tracks etc. The window is stuck in the up position right now.

firebirdparts

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Re: power windows
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2019, 01:03:56 PM »
I use a battery charger with the black grounded to the door, connect the hot to each wire, one at a time. One is up, the other is down.

I vote for this too.  A good charged battery would be even better than the charger.
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Grand73Am

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Re: power windows
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2019, 08:04:04 PM »
Yes, I've used a good battery sitting right next to the door with some jumper wires to operate windows to where I could work on them.

I did similar to what Roadking said with my power windows. I took the glass, tracks, and regulators with motors out of the doors. I cleaned and greased the tracks with white lithium grease. I removed the motors from the regulators. There's a trick to that, since the regulators are spring loaded. The trick is described in the door windows section of the Fisher body manual. You drill a hole through the regulator gear plate and install a bolt, before removing the motor (photo below). the yellow arrow shows where I drilled and put the bolt. The bolt keeps the regulator from unwinding for safe removal of the motor. Then after cleaning, painting the regulators, I greased the pivot points and rollers. I checked the operation of the motors while they were loose. The motor can be re-installed onto the regulator and the bolt removed, and it'll be ready to go. My rollers were good, so I didn't have to buy and install new ones. I checked all the electrical connections. Some needed cleaning to have dependable connections. I installed a new power window switch, and a new connector that plugs onto it.

Before doing this work, my windows fit very well. So, before taking the windows and parts out, I marked the locations of the fasteners with spray paint. This way when I put it all back together, I could put everything back in the same adjustment as it was beforehand. So, they are adjusted and fit just as good as they fit before i took it all apart. Picture below.

I eliminated the "relay" that's on the steering column under the dash. It often fails, and it's only there to make it so you have to turn the key on to operate the windows. Now, I can operate them any time.

After this work, the windows work great, even when the car isn't running. And without modifying the wiring to add relays.

004 by grand73am, on Flickr

005 by grand73am, on Flickr
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 08:06:02 PM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

Re: power windows
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2019, 08:04:04 PM »

FormTA

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Re: power windows
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2019, 08:19:20 PM »
Nice post. Thanks! I'll be at this point sometime soon.
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roadking77

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Re: power windows
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 07:23:24 AM »
Grand Am, great advice on marking the bolt locations. I used that trick on my recent project before I took the window apart. Hopefully it will help on reassembly.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
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BlueByNight

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Re: power windows
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 07:47:58 PM »
Yep hooking the battery charger directly up to the motor worked like a charm great advise! Thanks Grand am for your post that will be a huge help as well. You guys rock!

Just curious, we installed a new dome light (the old one was junk) and can’t get it to light. As I’m sure your familiar it has two white wires. I tested them and Only one is hot. My understanding is it is switched by turning the headlight knob counter clockwise but I assume the door switches should also activate it?

Ford5of5

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Re: power windows
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 02:38:28 PM »
I've done the relay upgrade and I like it. With that being said, Roadking hit it out of the park. Cleaning out that old grease is a big deal. The stuff kinda turns into clay after 30 or 40 years! lol I'm a proponent of the relay upgrade because it takes a lot of strain off a system that was built to a minimum cost and wasn't meant to be in service this far down the line. At the least, your window switch will thank you.

Can you open your motors? On our '66 Tbird we had to go as far as replacing the grease inside them.

As for your dome light, do your courtesy lights come on? Your assumptions are correct. The light has 2 white wires. At the harness one stays white and is the ground; the switches are on the ground side. The other white becomes orange at the harness and is the hot side; IIRC, it is always hot.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 03:23:59 PM by Ford5of5 »

BlueByNight

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Re: power windows
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2019, 05:54:31 PM »
I've done the relay upgrade and I like it. With that being said, Roadking hit it out of the park. Cleaning out that old grease is a big deal. The stuff kinda turns into clay after 30 or 40 years! lol I'm a proponent of the relay upgrade because it takes a lot of strain off a system that was built to a minimum cost and wasn't meant to be in service this far down the line. At the least, your window switch will thank you.

Can you open your motors? On our '66 Tbird we had to go as far as replacing the grease inside them.

As for your dome light, do your courtesy lights come on? Your assumptions are correct. The light has 2 white wires. At the harness one stays white and is the ground; the switches are on the ground side. The other white becomes orange at the harness and is the hot side; IIRC, it is always hot.

No my courtesy lights aren't working either. I'll trace those this weekend as well to see if the are as you described

Ford5of5

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Re: power windows
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 11:07:47 PM »
I keep a wiring schematic handy, don't ask why. :lol: There are two online that you can download, search Google. Try to get both. One is in color and the other is in B&W, both are handy.

I'd start by checking the fuses first. Courtesy lights, cigar lighter, trunk release and buzzer all share a hot side (orange-black) on the same circuit. Dome light, hazards and stop light switch all share a common hot (orange) on the same circuit. If the other things are working then the fuses are probably fine. Only your courtesy lights and dome light share a common ground (white) that leads up to the main switch. If the fuses are good, that common ground may have a solder junction that needs attention. I've seen old solder turn to dust and then there's black rot and green rot to deal with too.  :shock:

Something else to consider, you have no idea what the previous owners did to the car. They may have unplugged something instead of bothering to fix it. And if you're chasing electrical gremlins make sure to check that all your grounds are in place.


Re: power windows
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 11:07:47 PM »
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