Author Topic: Scary decal application coming up.  (Read 988 times)

Anderslober

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Scary decal application coming up.
« on: May 12, 2018, 07:47:31 PM »
Hello forum,

I am about to put decals back on my gold TA. I dread this part quite a bit, as I dont want to goof it up.

I bought a kit from Phoenix Graphics.

Of course clean the area where the decals go.......do I need to lay down `application fluid`? What exactly is `application fluid`?

Or are the decals `sticky`?

I will post pictures as I go ahead..........a bit nervous about it though...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 12:07:24 AM by Anderslober »

aussieta

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 08:15:01 PM »
the decals are sticky
you need the application gell so you can slide the decal to get the exact positioning
i made a home brew
50/50 mix, water and methylated spirits
with a few drops of johnsons baby shampoo
1978 Y84 W72 WS6

Jack

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 05:42:31 AM »
If you never done it I would advise that you either hire someone or get help from a knowledgeable person.

If you want to do it yourself you still need help, the step I tool installing few are as follows:

1. Position the bird on the hood and tape it down to mark few corners
2. Remove the bird and spray down the hood with soap water (you just want an even layer without soaking the car)
3. Make sure the hood is clean and you don't have wax or dirt.
4. Get few people to hold different corners of the bird and remove the backing.
5. Lay down the bird onto the wet hood and position using the markers you placed earlier.
6. Use the squeegee provided and start working from the center out.
7. Make sure you get all bobbles but don't worry if you can't get every small one out.
8. Keep the car outside under the sun (you don't want it to be very hot but hot enough to allow the bird to dry and cure)

Good luck. 




Regards, Jack

DD78TA

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 06:02:58 AM »
I did mine, with the help of 3 guys, none of us had done one before. The pucker factor was high, but it turned out good. I think there is one good youtube video and one other on line tutorial if you search. Jack's list is good. I would add as a mater of opinion:

more water vs. less water is better
spray the bird too as you peel the backing off to avoid is sticking to itself
apply it in the shade, and then when done park in the sun

I had several tiny little bubbles when I was done and not very happy. I parked it in the sun for an afternoon and they didn't go away. I parked it in the garage and went to work and didn't even look at it for a couple days and all of a sudden next time I looked at it they were magically all gone.

Jack

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2018, 06:18:46 AM »
Revised.

1. Position the bird on the hood and tape it down to mark few corners
2. Remove the bird and spray down the hood with soap water (you just want an even layer without soaking the car)
3. Work in the shade on a calm day (you don't want wind)
4. Make sure the hood is clean and you don't have wax or dirt.
5. Get few people to hold different corners of the bird and remove the backing.
6. Optional - Spray down the bird.
7. Lay down the bird onto the wet hood and position using the markers you placed earlier.
8. Use the squeegee provided and start working from the center out.
9. Make sure you get all bubbles but don't worry if you can't get every small one out.
10. Keep the car outside under the sun (you don't want it to be very hot but hot enough to allow the bird to dry and cure)
11. If you see small bubbles use a very small needle and punch a small hole while squeezing the water out.
12. Make sure the small corners are positioned correctly and not lifting.




Regards, Jack

Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2018, 06:18:46 AM »

roadking77

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2018, 09:20:54 AM »
Jacks steps are right on.  I did my hood bird with my son. 2 people can do it ok. Neither of us had any experience with something like this. Just make sure you go over it very well with the squeegee to get as much air/bubbles out as possible. I thought I did and when I peeled the top layer of paper off it looked horrible. It was full of bubbles. To the point I was ready to rip it off and start again. I set the car in the sun for a couple of days, and also started to drive it.  I think the engine heat may have helped as well. It took a couple of weeks but they eventually all went away and it looks great now.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
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francis79

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 02:55:00 AM »
I have this job coming up in a week or so also . I have a 3 piece hoodbird  so it should be a little easier . good to know  bubbles that you cant smooth out will shrink away in a few days .

FULZGOLD

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2018, 04:57:28 AM »
Good luck! Can't wait to see it!

Anderslober

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 11:39:49 PM »
Thanks for all the info. I am not doing the bird.......that decal is fine. I am `only` doing the rear-end decals, as this was where my car was fixed/painted.

Sail panel decals, trunk decals, spoiler decals, bumper.........and door decals.

I will use the 50/50(water/methylated alcohol...+ abit of shampoo).

I will test on a surface with a decal that I dont need first.......I just dont want to botch this !!

Dreamn2

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 05:42:47 PM »
I would only amend one part: I tape down one side and work from the center out on the bird, one half at a time to reduce area. I have installed around 10-12 sets.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 01:46:38 PM by dreamn2 »
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roadking77

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 06:33:29 PM »
Just my opinion, but for the smaller decals I would do them dry without a solution. I started mine (stripes) with solution and had bad luck. The decal would not dry, and when I tried to pull the top off the decal came with it and moved. I had a friend that said they did theirs dry, so I decided to give it a try. It worked out extremely well for me. Just make sure you have it placed right, and make sure you squeegee out the bubbles.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Aus78Formula

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2018, 09:05:58 PM »
Amount of solution sprayed, and strength plays a big role also. You want it tacky but moveable, but not sitting on top of solution and sliding down the panel.

Who makes a 3-piece hood bird these days?

737driver

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 11:39:34 PM »
When my Trans Am was painted afterwards I had the bird put on at the body shop. They used a local vinyl wrap guy do it and he did an amazing job. It cost me $150 dollars but it came out excellent and I was very happy. It looked every bit as good as factory installation and was right on the marks. You can do it yourself , but if you don’t want to do it, you can look into that as option.
Jim
1979 Trans Am- Heritage Brown -W72 (Pontiac 400) -4Speed-WS6
1972 LeMans Convertible
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Jack

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 05:29:39 AM »
Just my opinion, but for the smaller decals I would do them dry without a solution. I started mine (stripes) with solution and had bad luck. The decal would not dry, and when I tried to pull the top off the decal came with it and moved. I had a friend that said they did theirs dry, so I decided to give it a try. It worked out extremely well for me. Just make sure you have it placed right, and make sure you squeegee out the bubbles.

I agree totally, I've done the small one both ways and will never do it wet again.




Regards, Jack

Jack

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 05:32:08 AM »
Amount of solution sprayed, and strength plays a big role also. You want it tacky but moveable, but not sitting on top of solution and sliding down the panel.

Who makes a 3-piece hood bird these days?

I agree as with a lot of solution the glue will wash away.

Cheap eBay ones are 3 piece.




Regards, Jack

Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 05:32:08 AM »



roadking77

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 06:39:10 AM »
I had a hard time and was extremely frustrated with the stripes when I first started. So bad I called Phoenix G and asked what I was doing wrong. The general thought was that the air was too humid and I should let them sit for a couple of days before pulling the mask off. That didn't help. If and when I do it again, I would gladly pay 150. to have the hood bird put on.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
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ws6formula

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2018, 11:12:32 AM »
Just my 2 cents.

I installed or tried to install a Phoenix Graphics hood decal last year. I washed the hood and then wiped with a bit of degreaser. Waited for the hood to dry. I used a solution of water with tiny bit of Johnsons Baby Shampoo. I sprayed the hood. The hood decal applied fine and myself and my bud we squeeged out almost all the bubbles except for a few tiny ones. I let it dry for about 18hrs.

We then pulled off the top plastic mask. But, the decal started lifting with the top plastic mask. We got the decal back down. But, we had a lot of creases and bubbles. It was pretty ugly. I left the decal on. It looked really bad. But, over the last year or so it looks a bit better. The heat of sun and engine I guess can help smooth some bubbles and imperfections out a bit. This was done last summer. The temperature was around 80 during the day and 70 at night. The install was done in garage.

Phoenix Graphics made everything good with me - they were top notch. I now have a new decal and I will be removing the old and trying the install again - later this summer. How long were you guys waiting to pull the top plastic mask off ? Possibly, my decal was still not fully dry after 18hrs? Or maybe because I was working in garage, I should have given longer to dry ? Roadking you said you waited 2 days and the decal was still not dry? I thought some guys waited as little as 4hrs before pulling the plastic mask? Is it possible that water and a bit of Shampoo takes longer to dry versus other solutions (like the install Gel? ) ? It is wierd how some people seem to have a problem with the plastic mask lifting and others don't - even though all the steps , prep and decal are the same. Doing the install dry might be a good way to go - though less room for errors by installer.

aussieta

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2018, 05:17:04 PM »
from memory i waited a few hours before removing the clear premask
only part i had trouble was the outside of the turbo flame as the clear mask was exactly the same size as the flame
the decal stuck to the hood fine, i was actually pulling the decal apart
and as mentioned bubbles will disappear
up to 3/16 inch and flat is probably the max you could get away with
after a week most are gone after a year none remaining
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 05:19:09 PM by aussieta »
1978 Y84 W72 WS6

roadking77

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2018, 09:39:34 AM »
My major problems with the decals lifting were with the stripes. That part was a total disaster when I did them wet. I started doing them dry and it was actually enjoyable.
As far as the hood bird, I used all PG products. I used their cleaner/prep, which smelled a lot like denatured alcohol. Then I used there installation gel, along with a water spray bottle. I had plenty of solution under the decal.
It was done in August in MD, (hot and humid). In my garage in the shade. Myself and my son did it with no previous experience. After putting the bird on we squeegeed the heck out of it, it looked absolutely perfect, not a single bubble. I impressed myself with how easy and neat it came out. I let that part sit overnight and pealed the backing off the next day. The decal was stuck nice, but that's when all of the bubbles appeared. Almost a year later it looks perfect, with the exception of one area about 1/4"  long that I creased when trying to get rid of a bubble.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Anderslober

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 11:36:31 PM »
Ok...thats great info all around. As I am not doing the hood bird......I will attempt a dry application.

I will just work carefully.

Degrease the area.......and apply......working slowly.

I will test a couple of decals that I am not using on a similar surface, just to see how hard or easy they are to work with.

No worries.

73ta

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2018, 02:16:48 PM »
Use a dedicated application gel. Any solution with sop just creates bubbles. Piece of cake. Did my 73 TA by myself with no problems. Very few small bubbles after application that go away in a few day with some heat.

Ryoko

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2018, 06:45:25 PM »
I'm tempted to have a vinyl bird made with the weak adhesive to use as a template to paint a bird on. I've seen services that can make templates. I'm just not sure how big they can make them. Of course, since the bird has more than one color, there would need to be more than one mask made. It might be worth the effort. I remember how badly cracked and faded the bird on my 74 got to looking.

roadking77

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Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 07:30:14 AM »
Ryoko, I hear what youre saying but,  unless you have deep pockets I think you'd be crazy! (all due respect. LOL as per Ricky Bobby) I think that a painted bird would be a lot of work and if your paying someone to do the painting its going to get costly. Unless your car is going to sit in the sun for the next 15 years or so I cant imagine it going bad like the previous one. Of course if you are after a custom look then by all means go for it. I have seen some pretty nice painted birds out there.
Finished!
77 T/A - I will Call this one DONE!
79 TATA 4sp-Next Project?
79 TATA - Lost to Fire!
86 Grand Prix - Sold
85 T/A - Sold
85 Fiero - Sold
82 Firebird - Sold
'38-CZ 250
'39-BSA Gold Star
'49-Triumph 350
'52-Ariel Red Hunter
'66-BSA Lightning
'01-HD RoadKing

Re: Scary decal application coming up.
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 07:30:14 AM »
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