Author Topic: Sbo Thornton shorties  (Read 1670 times)

sreta

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Sbo Thornton shorties
« on: February 28, 2018, 01:15:50 PM »
I found these headers on ebay, they seem like a good product. What do you guys think ?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 03:25:16 PM by sreta »

sreta

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Re: Thornton shorties
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2018, 02:05:44 PM »
I saw them yesterday, and now I can't post a picture or link cause they all have been removed.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:08:38 PM by sreta »

sreta

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Re: Thornton shorties
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2018, 02:58:12 PM »












Found em with google, but they are definitely gone. Weird.
Item description:

$299 INTRODUCTORY PRICE

These headers are designed to replace stock exhaust manifolds with no modifications needed. The starter clearance is the same as the stock exhaust manifolds.

These headers are made to replace stock exhaust manifolds and will still accept factory style exhaust systems with dual exhaust.

The primary tubes are 1 5/8” and the exit flange is best suited to fit 2 1/4” head pipes but will accept 2 1/2” head pipes.

The primary tubes are polished stainless and flanges are chrome plated steel.

Gaskets and header bolts are included



Feel free to ask questions.

Satisfaction guaranteed, returns accepted on unused, unaltered parts

Thornton Muscle Cars, Quakertown PA
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 03:24:19 PM by sreta »

Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2018, 03:44:39 PM »
Interesting, wonder where made. There were a few outlet positions and angles so obviously not a direct swap, in most cases there wasn't a second exhaust to meet up with!


Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 09:13:36 AM »

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 09:02:08 PM »
We bought them all. ????

Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2018, 01:55:13 AM »
There's tons listed now, just under different model and engine types for whoever is searching.

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 09:09:53 AM »
Will let you know how these fit

Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 09:40:41 PM »
You grabbed a set, Mike?
I messaged the seller at Thornton's, very brief reply but yes, the exit points are same as their cast manifolds so will swap directly onto car already using those, plus possibly some of the factory version that match with twin pipes, and no they haven't done any power comparisons.

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 10:31:34 PM »
Yes, we are building two Trans Am’s right now.  This set is going on my brothers motor.  It’s a short block we built in the 90’s with trw forged pistons and an engle mondello 230/236 cam.  Heads are #6 race ported with a holley dominator intake.  Going to send the heads out soon for new guides and valve job.  This motor Never been fired.  I think he is ready to pull his car out of hiding.  It’s hotter than mine.  This 403 will break stuff. 

I just built him a full billet 200r4 with a dave husek covertor. 

He is a ways off from putting the motor in the car....


via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 11:50:50 PM »
So which headers would be better in your opinion? 

The Thorton 359 JR manifold or these short tubes now offered?

A. I guess the big question is what the port sizes are in comparison to the 1-5/8" tubes.... 
B. Outlets or both 2-1/4 so the choke point size is the same
C. But will one flow better versuse the other?
D. I imagine the short header tubes will have more a a throaty rumble sound (material acoustics?), and the 350 JR manifold will be more quiet.... complete guessing here.
E. Cost essentially the same.
F. Looks - personally I like the tubes better...

 



« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 12:10:31 AM by via3d »
~ J

Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2018, 12:43:52 AM »
The collector flow isn't as smooth as a nice set of long tube headers that are also tuned for even firing flow. Naturally these are a compromise but should flow better than the cast iron logs, which were only slightly better flowing than stock but removed the cross-over port.

Full length headers weren't a realistic option for me without lots of expense and lots of reworking due to RHD conversion, plus I liked that it looked stock under the hood but had double the power lurking. Heat under the floor is also a big problem with these cars so one way to limit that.

The new shorties are interesting though, potential to swap over or back with minimal work, although I'd be getting them coated to remove the bling effect. It depends what the stainless type is, some turn brown anyway. A mounting face pic would also be of interest as there's a fair mismatch in port shape, same as many Olds headers though. Hopefully soon, someone will have some first hand results.

Edit: Actually, there's further photos in ad that show slightly tapered ports from rectangular to round, that's better than what I thought might be there. Also, the dipstick is made to go over them. like other headers, not under like the manifolds. That can create problems during swaps, have to be extra careful not to pull it  too far to make fit. The primaries from the heads are 2.25" as per ad.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 12:54:41 AM by Aus78Formula »

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 08:56:56 PM »
Once we get them and get our motor back I will post pics.  Putting them on my car is a about 1/2 days work and gaskets. that is not in the plan.

Dr87

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2018, 04:01:21 PM »
I put them on mine

mikebooms

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2018, 11:16:59 AM »
I put them on mine

what did you have on the car before? how was the install?

Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2018, 11:16:59 AM »



Dr87

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 02:12:10 PM »
I had manifolds on it. I had to jack the engine up to get them in. They fit ok but not like factory manifolds. I had to get a custom down pipe on the pass side and on the drivers side the header flange hits my z bar

via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2018, 06:19:58 PM »
Headers rub, really?
~ J

lugnuts

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2018, 01:01:36 PM »
interesting, I don't see them for sale on ebay right now. I wonder how they compare to the cast manifolds they sell performance wise.
Check out the progress of my restoration on my YouTube Channel. Click here: TheOriginalLugnuts (Updated Weekly)
  
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Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2018, 06:36:24 AM »
I've asked that on several groups. No one has an opinion or seems to care. If I was marketing them I'd want to know the basics, unless they offer nothing, in which case I'd advertise them just as they are now, like they know nothing of their product.

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2018, 10:19:54 PM »
We have a set and will mount them - soon as rest of motor comes together. Took 20 months to get this 403 done.  Too painful

lugnuts

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2018, 10:43:46 PM »
I've asked that on several groups. No one has an opinion or seems to care. If I was marketing them I'd want to know the basics, unless they offer nothing, in which case I'd advertise them just as they are now, like they know nothing of their product.
thats why I was curious, the price is the same as the cast ones. I emailed them and asked if there was any performance differences and they told me they never looked into it. seriously they make a header and didn't dyno them against their cast manifolds? I don't by it any self respecting car person would have done a side by side so my thought is there is no difference.

the only thing then is there a weight savings if so is it worth it.
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Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2018, 11:22:45 PM »
Yes, I did the same. More for curiosity than to make a purchase. I'd be wanting to know the smallest of improvements if they were my pieces, even if they were only compared to stock manifolds. So far Mike is about the only one I know who has purchased any, and the typical Olds forums are more performance based so you get no response on there while full headers exist.

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2018, 02:10:38 PM »
Will post once we get the motor in the car in the fall/winter.  It will be a few months. 

via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2018, 12:41:06 PM »
Besides Mike having some in the install process....    DrJ mentioned above he installed the Shorty's.

At this point, it would seem the Shorty's at the best option for anyone venturing anew.
~same price
~same or possibly better performance (according to the exhaust gurus the 90degree turn on the log manifold inhibits performance versus the circular pipe transitions)
~same mounting

The notion about remaining stock or looking stock is a hard argument because going to the Thorton350Jr's is not stock by any means.

-->>  I was excited initially about these Thornton Shortys BUT check out the Hedman Shorty's that are said to fit...  I found $10-20 cheaper and it has larger port size @ 1-7/8 !  yet another possible performance gain. 

Further, I have changed my view this weekend and now seriously considering long tubes now.
I have found several long tube headers cheaper than these Thornton or other Shorty options!!! 
Being the long tubes collectors once mounted are straight back, it alleviates the pain of ponying up $$ for down pipes... basically you just need a straight pipe to the cat or muffler at that point, which I would do myself.

Long tube Headers vs Shorty's:
- cheaper
- better performance
- same materials
- harder initial mounting   (my engine is getting pulled out anyways so this is negligible)
- easier exhaust system mounting

Not having to pull the engine is the only advantage I see of Shorty's over Long tube headers....  AND we pay for that convenience it appears. Shorty's are less material, less fabrication, but more cost.



~J


   
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 01:22:42 PM by via3d »
~ J

via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2018, 01:23:32 PM »
Stock manifolds .- 0$; cleanup
Thornton 350Jr Manifold.- $299 1-5/8 ports to 3" collector
Thorton Shorty Header...- $299 1-5/8 ports to 3" collector   SS
Hedman Shorty's......... .- $289 1-7/8 ports to 3"   SS
Long Tube Headers.... .- $194 1-3/4, 18-gauge steel FlowTech ..#11150flt not painted for high temp
Long Tube Headers.... .- $149 1-5/8, 16-gauge steel Jegs ........#326455 not painted for high temp
Long Tube Headers..... - $240 1-5/8, 18-gauge steel Patriot .....#737H8301 - metallic coated
~ J

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2018, 02:55:05 PM »
I have 350jr’s, shorties and hooker super comps.  It all depends what you want to do.
Headers are a big pain on Olds motors in a Trans Am. Very tight fit and loud.  I’ve ran the super comps and have the long collectors. 

via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2018, 05:52:22 PM »
Olds403,

Was the Hookers a noticeable difference in butt HP?
How did the Hookers fit?
~ J

Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2018, 09:05:16 PM »
Where they have been fabricated also likely plays a factor in cost.

olds403

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2018, 09:57:11 PM »
In my mind the 350 Jr’s are the way to go.  If you want a good kick in the pants 3:23/3:73 gears are far more fun.  The rear end in my trans am went to my Dad’s 10th anniversary.  I built a 3:73 rear end . 

The Hooker headers fit the best and if you are trying to squeeze every little bit of HP then go with them.  On the 424 stroker motor, we put 5 more degrees of exhaust duration in the cam exhaust split since we are using manifolds. 

via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2018, 04:10:46 PM »
I keep finding folks, largest consensus, who say there is not much, if any, power gain from the Jr's...    and consensus seems to be a small gain from Shorty's, not noticeable.
~ J

lugnuts

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2018, 04:55:47 PM »
Stock manifolds .- 0$; cleanup
Thornton 350Jr Manifold.- $299 1-5/8 ports to 3" collector
Thorton Shorty Header...- $299 1-5/8 ports to 3" collector   SS
Hedman Shorty's......... .- $289 1-7/8 ports to 3"   SS
Long Tube Headers.... .- $194 1-3/4, 18-gauge steel FlowTech ..#11150flt not painted for high temp
Long Tube Headers.... .- $149 1-5/8, 16-gauge steel Jegs ........#326455 not painted for high temp
Long Tube Headers..... - $240 1-5/8, 18-gauge steel Patriot .....#737H8301 - metallic coated

got a link to the Hedman shory's? I couldn't find them
Check out the progress of my restoration on my YouTube Channel. Click here: TheOriginalLugnuts (Updated Weekly)
  
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Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2018, 12:41:03 AM »
Maybe this beast is what you are not after!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/77-79-TRANS-AM-OLDS-403-6-6-V8-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-PASSENGER-RH-SIDE-AFTERMARKET/253765780051?fits=Year%3A1978%7CModel%3AFirebird&hash=item3b159e8253%3Ag%3ATekAAOSw0C9bUigP&LH_ItemCondition=4

The Thornton cast iron manifolds offer a dual exhaust option to factory manifolds, with very slight improvements, but still look factory. They are usually used for when headers aren't suitable and chasing every last hp isn't the main concern either. If you owned a dyno and a 500hp Olds, you could play around with factory manifolds and headers to actually compare them, but even those selling them don't.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 12:44:24 AM by Aus78Formula »

lugnuts

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2018, 06:19:55 AM »
I ended up buying a set of these, figured for the price it was worth trying. if I end up not liking them or the fitment sucks Ill buy a set of the 350JRs and be done. I don't feel like messing with long tubes on this car.
Check out the progress of my restoration on my YouTube Channel. Click here: TheOriginalLugnuts (Updated Weekly)
  
" daddy my hat blew off, I hope your darn head was in it"

Dr87

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2018, 11:22:03 PM »
I would've put long tubes on mine but my car being a 4 speed I would've had a hell of a time fitting them, the Thornton shorts were bad enough.

Aus78Formula

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2018, 06:51:54 AM »
That's sometimes enough of a reason, along with ease of maintenance. They are designed for LHD cars so I didn't even bother the expense of also modifying completely to maybe work on mine. Compromise.

via3d

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2018, 11:01:25 AM »
lugnuts,   which did you get ?  the Hedman or Thorntons?  installed yet?
~ J

lugnuts

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Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2018, 01:48:11 PM »
lugnuts,   which did you get ?  the Hedman or Thorntons?  installed yet?
I got the Thornton shorty headers. figured I give them a try. not on the car yet but will install them probably in Dec/Jan when I put the rebuilt motor in the car. I'll shot a video of the install and fitment in the car and post it to my YouTube channel if anyone wants to see how the look/fit.
Check out the progress of my restoration on my YouTube Channel. Click here: TheOriginalLugnuts (Updated Weekly)
  
" daddy my hat blew off, I hope your darn head was in it"

Re: Sbo Thornton shorties
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2018, 01:48:11 PM »
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