Author Topic: Shaker  (Read 1445 times)

Loneranger

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Shaker
« on: September 04, 2017, 10:48:01 PM »
I have a 1979 trans am with a 1968 400 motor with an elderbrock manifold and a holley 4barrel carburetor.
Would anyone know what I would need to put a shaker on it. The only part I have is the hood scoop.
Again it is a 1979 trans am with a 1968 400 motor.

Aus78Formula

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 07:00:40 AM »
Edelbrock

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 11:31:51 AM »
I have a 1979 trans am with a 1968 400 motor with an elderbrock manifold and a holley 4barrel carburetor.
Would anyone know what I would need to put a shaker on it. The only part I have is the hood scoop.
Again it is a 1979 trans am with a 1968 400 motor.

Which Edelbrock intake do you have? The Performer RPM is too tall for an original shaker assembly. The regular Edelbrock performer is stock height, so the original shaker will work on it.

So, if you have the regular Performer, you can use Pontiac 400 original shaker parts, which include the air cleaner base, the air filter lid, and the retaining clamp. I believe the Holley has the same diameter air horn as a Quadrajet, which I believe is 5-1/8", so it should fit on it. You can look up those parts on eBay. Here's an original one on eBay that shows you what it looks like. Being for a W72 400 engine, with its short oval snout, it's the most desirable one:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/PONTIAC-FIREBIRD-TRANS-AM-OEM-SHAKER-AIR-CLEANER-BASE-4BBL-400-W72-70-81-1978-79-/222622896079?hash=item33d55bcfcf:g:fmMAAOSwRJ1ZnugE&vxp=mtr

There are also 400 air cleaners with a trumpet type snout, and they will work too. Here you can see the difference between the trumpet snout and oval snout. Both will work, but the oval snout is more desirable and valuable:

IMG_2593 by grand73am, on Flickr

You have to be sure the air cleaner parts are for a Pontiac 400, since some sellers don't know what they are selling and try to sell you an air cleaner for a 301 Pontiac or a 403 Olds and claim it will work on a 400. Notice in the above picture that the carb hole in the air cleaner is pretty centered in the air cleaner base. And the diameter of the base is about 16.5". A 301 base is smaller diameter, and an Olds base has an offset hole like the one below. So, that's how you know those 2 are wrong for your 400:

IMG_2589 by grand73am, on Flickr

If you have the taller Performer RPM, you'll need to use a modified air cleaner base with more drop than the stock air cleaner. The dropped air cleaner base is sold by some of the Pontiac resto and engine parts dealers, like Pro Touring F-Body and Butler, or on eBay.

Also, since you have a 79, you might have a 403 Olds shaker scoop. The round metal plate on the 403 Olds scoop is different from the plate on a 400 shaker scoop. The metal plate is called an adapter plate, since there are different plates to adapt the scoop to fit on different engines so the shaker lines up with the hole in the hood. The scoops are the same, but the plates are different. So, the 403 Olds scoop plate is made to use with an Olds air cleaner, and won't line up right with the Pontiac 400 air cleaner. The top photo is a scoop with a 403 Olds plate. The lower photo shows 400 Pontiac shakers with the 2 points inside the metal ring, which is what you should look for. If you have a 403 scoop, you can replace the 403 plate with the 400 adapter plate so it'll work with a 400 air cleaner base, if you can find just the 400 adapter plate. Somebody might be reproducing it now. 

SHAKER 403 by grand73am, on Flickr

IMG_6699 by grand73am, on Flickr
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 11:34:58 AM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

sCI

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 09:24:52 PM »
That is a fantastic and informative post Steve. I roughly knew most of that information and you helped refine it further. Thank you.

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 11:00:00 PM »
That is a fantastic and informative post Steve. I roughly knew most of that information and you helped refine it further. Thank you.

You're welcome!  :-)
Steve F.

Re: Shaker
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 11:00:00 PM »

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 07:26:58 PM »
Thank you so much for this information on the shaker.  I didn't know any of this.
I  have to look at the numbers on the carburetor to see if I can determine which carburetor I have.
If I could post a picture of the intake manifold and  the carburetor on here would you mind taking a look at it.
Again Thank you so much for responding with some great information.

RonC455

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 09:56:05 AM »
To keep things looking stock, you can use a '74 or older Olds Tornado air cleaner base.  The snorkles for the air cleaner just have one spot weld on each side so switching them isn't too hard.  The '79 301 Trans Am used the same hood scoop as the 400 Trans Am.  Using the Olds air cleaner base I was able to fit a Edelbrock Torker under the hood of my '79 T/A.

NOT A TA

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 10:42:19 AM »
Excellent info guys! We should really have a "Shaker" sticky thread for this type of info since it's coming up more and more the older the cars get and used parts supplies dry up.
John Paige
Lab-14.com

skip99

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 05:35:53 PM »
Early 77 metal plate is also about a 1/2 shorter, so that might work if you just need a little more room

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 08:16:06 PM »
Feel like a nincompoop.  I posted about connecting the shaker on 1979  trans am with a 1968 motor, edelbrock manifold and a holley carburetor.   After studying pictures of the shaker, I realized my shaker was attached to the hood.  Some day I may try to get the shaker to work.  Don't know if it's worth it. It would be pretty cool watching that thing shake.
Thank you for all the advice.

kevinw

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 02:03:10 PM »
this thread has me all SHOOK up!   :-P

great information.
why, on earth, couldn't GM just keep things simple? 
make the dimensions and plates all the same for 400 and 403 engines at least .
how many ways is there to screw in a light bulb?
LOL

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 02:18:31 PM »
The problem is that the different engines that were used in Trans Ams are different sizes, offsets, and heights, so one size adapter plate won't line up the shaker to the hood on them all. The Pontiac engine has a different air cleaner than the Olds engine, due to different clearance situations. And the carb on an Olds engine sits at a lower height than a Pontiac, so the Olds adapter plate has to be offset and a little taller than a Pontiac engine. The 301 Pontiac engine is shorter still, as is a 305 Chevy. So, their plates are taller. So, the adapter plates adjust for all the different offsets and heights so the shakers wind up in the center of the hole in the hood and at the right height for the engine the shaker is on.
Steve F.

kevinw

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 02:31:56 PM »
thanks Grand Am for the explaination.
its a complicated world, aint it?
thanks

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 02:33:20 PM »
It surely is  :) .
Steve F.

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 05:23:30 PM »
I thought I was going to give up on this shaker for a while.  I reread the posts and reread it again and again.  Starting to understand it.  My 1979 was originally a 301 motor, so I'm guessing the hood and round ring under the shaker is the original. Am I correct to say that the scoop and metal ring that the shaker attaches to can stay.  I need to work with the air filter base whether I use an original base or the base from Butler.
I can't find any numbers on the intake manifold.  It is an Edelbrock and The only writing I could find on it is Pontiac Performer. The carburetor is a Holley Street Avenger 90770-1 it may be the same as the newer version 0-8077 another number that seems to identify the carburetor is 4100
Thanks again and thanks in advance for any information.

Re: Shaker
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 05:23:30 PM »

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2017, 06:34:40 PM »
Here are 3 pics of 301 shakers. You can see that the big hole in the adapter plate is pretty well centered in the plate. The side wall height of the adapter plate is about the same height all the way around. The main problem is the 301 adapter plate ring is smaller in diameter than the adapter plate ring for the 400 air cleaner base. The 301 ring is only about 15" to 15-1/2" diameter. The 400 ring is about 16-1/2 to 16-3/4 diameter.  Also, the 301 adapter plate is a little too tall, and level. The 400 plate is 1/2" tall in the front and 1" in the rear, so it has a slight angle to it.

So unfortunately, the 301 adapter plate won't work on a 400 air cleaner base, mainly due to different diameters.

Yes, you can use the scoop part of your shaker, but you need to put a 400 adapter plate on it. You also need the retainer clamp. You can use a clamp from a 400 or 403, since they're both the same diameter.

Since your intake only says Performer on it, and not Performer RPM, it should be the stock height, so you won't need a dropped base from Butler. You'll need one of those 400 air cleaner bases like in the photos I put up earlier. I didn't mention this earlier, but the air cleaner base has to be from a Trans Am. The factory Trans Am air cleaner base is a dropped base so the shaker will fit under the hood. I'm not even sure a Firebird air cleaner base with a 400 is the same and would work on a Trans Am. I'd have to look at one. No other air cleaner from a different model of Pontiac will work.

The original Quadrajet is 3-3/8" tall up to where the air cleaner sits. I don't know how tall your Holley is, so you can compare the heights. The diameter should be the same at 5-1/8". I don't know if the Holley will have other features that will interfere with the bottom of an original air cleaner base. Maybe someone is using a Holley with an original air cleaner base and will tell us how it fits.

air cleaner for 301 c by grand73am, on Flickr

air cleaner for 301 a by grand73am, on Flickr

301 shaker by grand73am, on Flickr
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 06:47:16 PM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 09:30:46 PM »
Thank you, that is some awesome detailed information and instructions, with some great pictures. You made it very clear. When I first started this thread it was like a different language for me you made it very clear, kind of put it into English for me.
I appreciate the effort  and work you put into your response. You took a lot of frustration out of this project.
Thank you very much.

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 07:02:19 AM »
You're welcome.

I'm curious, what is the diameter of the ring on your adapter plate under your shaker?
Steve F.

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 06:05:21 PM »
I measured the adapter ring before I saw the question, I was going to post it  hoping you would see it.  It was a little hard to see the exact measurement in the garage even with a flash light.  I am going to have to measure outside in the daylight. The adapter ring was on the 16" mark how much beyond I couldn't see it.  The adapter ring also had the two pointy tabs on each side. I'm thinking the previous owner may have got into trying to get the shaker to work. If I have the correct adapter I caught a break.
I also looked again on line at the Butler Performance Drop Base Shaker.  It kind of sounds like it could work if I have the correct base.  I wanted to ask you your thoughts on that again.
Thanks again.

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 06:17:24 PM »
Just reread the posts again and you mentioned that the Butler is for the high rise edelbrock which I don't think I have. I guess I need to find and original air cleaner base and top lid for the 400.

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 06:18:50 PM »
It looks like you lucked out and have a shaker with the 400 adapter plate, since it's over 16" and has the 2 points.

You don't want to use the Butler drop base because it's meant to be used on a taller intake manifold than you have. It has EXTRA drop to it, beyond the drop of the factory air cleaner, so if you were to use it on a stock height manifold, like the Performer, the shaker would sit too low.
Steve F.

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 06:51:20 PM »
I guess I will be looking a factory air cleaner base for a 400.  They are pretty pricy.   RonC455 on the forum mentioned the air cleaner base from a 1974 or older  Tornado would work on the 400.  Thank you RonC455.
Steve, you took a lot of frustration out of this. I'm glad to hear I have the correct air cleaner base. That will make things easier. Things usually don't got that way.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, it is very much appreciated.
PS  going back to post and rereading it again.

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 07:00:28 PM »
I don't know about that Toronada air cleaner. Since it's an Oldsmobile, the air cleaner will be offset, similar to the one on a 403 Olds TA. That means modifications would be needed to make it work on a Pontiac with a Pontiac shaker/adapter. And who knows how much drop there is on a Toronado air cleaner. Not to take away from what Ron was able to do, but I suggest getting the correct Pontiac one for an easy fit and correct look. 
Steve F.

SEADave

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 10:10:57 AM »
Wow Steve, tons of good info in this post.   I'm ashamed to admit my shaker is attached to the hood too.  I bought it that way but it is well past time for me to do something about it.   Thanks for all the pictures and explanations.   

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2017, 09:16:50 PM »
I just picked up a shaker (1978 trans am) air cleaner for my 1979 trans am with the 1968 400 motor, with the edelbrock Pontiac performer intake manifold.  It has the Holley 4 barrel carburetor street avenger.  The bottom of the air cleaner sits on the carburetor a little cocked. If I wiggle the air cleaner base a little I can get the air cleaner base to sit level, the base is not sitting all the way down on the carburetor. When I push down to hard on the air cleaner, the bottom of the air cleaner interferes with the throttle linkage.  The throttle linkage won't open all the way.  ( The gas pedal won't go all the way down.)  When I position the air cleaner base without pushing it down to hard I can clear the linkage.
When I place my other little round air cleaner over the carburetor it's a perfect fit.
I wanted to post some pictures, I couldn't navigate around this site to find a way to post pictures.

sCI

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2017, 10:01:59 PM »
I wanted to post some pictures, I couldn't navigate around this site to find a way to post pictures.

You must host the pictures using a hosting website, like Google Drive, or Yahoo Flickr, or imageshack(not free). Then post a direct like here.

RonC455

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2017, 09:41:35 AM »
The Olds motors in Firebirds, including the Trans Am is offset to the right.  That is why the plate the hood scoop is rivited to is offset compared to a Pontiac engine in a Firebird.  In other words, the crank centerline isn't in line with the car. 

Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2017, 06:33:55 PM »
I tried a trans am air cleaner over the Holley Street Avenger it's sits a little crooked.  That's the base only without the air filter, cover and wing nut. Then I tried a spacer in between the air cleaner base and carburetor and the air cleaner sits level.
I didn't get into it any further because I want to finish the interior first.
I was wondering if anyone ever tried using a spacer under the air cleaner base.  The spacer doesn't raise it to much. The spacer is 1/2" in height.

Grand73Am

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2017, 09:22:16 PM »
Depends on how and where it's crooked. Maybe the air cleaner is little bent. If so, you can bend it back where it needs to be to sit level.
Steve F.

RonC455

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2017, 11:40:23 PM »
More than likely the air cleaner base is making contact with the float bowe of the Holley carb.  l

LeighP

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2017, 04:32:51 AM »
More than likely the air cleaner base is making contact with the float bowe of the Holley carb.  l

Most holley carbs with centre hung float bowls will require you to panel beat the stock aircleaner base for some clearance.
Regards,
Leigh

Sydney, Australia
1969 Pontiac Firebird 400 coupe (project)

Former Firebirds -
1971 Pontiac Firebird 455
1977 Pontiac Trans Am
1976 Pontiac Trans Am
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 coupe


Loneranger

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2017, 08:02:19 PM »
Wanted to thank everyone for there responses. Air cleaner base is definitely hitting something, maybe it is the float bowl. It is also hitting the accelerator linkage, preventing the gas pedal from going all the way down. If I manipulate the air cleaner I can clear the linkage.
I'm not sure what you mean by panel beat. I looked it up and it is an auto body term.
I'll get back to the shaker again. I want to get the interior done.  I got into the shaker after going to a car show and looking at a few trans am.
I appreciate all the suggestions.
Thank you.

79GoldnTan

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2017, 06:03:03 PM »
Just a thought, was having fits getting my shaker to work, have 400, eldibrock intake. Didn't have the right base, no luck finding one, got on eBay, got a 2.25 drop base air cleaner, just a bottom, a filter and a top, was cheap. Was a bit of trial and error but used the base I had and cut the bottom out and used the new base to get it to work. Lots of fitting but turned out very good. Now I have a working shaker.
79 solar gold    
461.   Factory 4 speed
3.08 rear

Aus78Formula

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2017, 02:01:19 AM »
Edelbrock

LeighP

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Re: Shaker
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2017, 04:36:19 AM »
Edelbrock

If you listen real closely, you can just hear Vic's teeth grinding.....lol.
Regards,
Leigh

Sydney, Australia
1969 Pontiac Firebird 400 coupe (project)

Former Firebirds -
1971 Pontiac Firebird 455
1977 Pontiac Trans Am
1976 Pontiac Trans Am
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 coupe


Re: Shaker
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2017, 04:36:19 AM »
You can help support TAC!