Author Topic: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)  (Read 31389 times)

Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2017, 03:40:31 PM »
I would go with whichever product you can purchase locally. For me, that's Dynotron; IIRC, it's a Bondo brand product. I bought it at O'Reily's. My local Autozone and Advanced Auto doesn't carry seam sealer. All 3 of those stores are discount auto part chains on the US. I may be remembering incorrectly, you are Canadian? I never tried, but auto-paint stores should stock seam sealer in a few different varieties. The Dynotron took forever to dry, I only used it on the interior cabin. It also broke down the rattle can primers I used under it. It's an OK product.

Every place else I used SEM seam sealer. It's my preferred product but needs to be ordered. I got mine at Summit for about 16 USD a tube. It only has a 5 min working window but can be painted immediately. After 48 hours you will need to scuff it for paint. It's also a direct to metal product. Some sealers need to be applied to primed and/or painted surface. If you use the SEM over a covering you will need to scuff the covering.

I believe you will only need 1 tube. I've been through about 5 or 6 tubes and still need at least one more. I've been using the seam sealer over all my welds just in case I got a pinhole. I basically slopped the stuff on in the same fashion as the old factory stuff. Other folks do a real nice and neat job. My major concern was sealing out exhaust as that's why I went through most of this trouble. :???:

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #81 on: January 18, 2017, 10:02:19 AM »
I knew there was more to this seam sealer stuff than just buying a tub of anything kind and squeezing it on, thanks for the info brother.

Ryoko

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #82 on: January 18, 2017, 11:01:33 AM »
My experience with seam sealer is it's best to use a caulking gun and get some acid brushes to smooth it. That stuff is really nasty to work with from a can.

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2017, 11:20:45 AM »
What is an 'acid brush'?

Ryoko

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2017, 12:12:45 PM »
An acid brush is a cheap disposable paint brush.

example: https://www.amazon.com/Harbor-Freight-Tools-Horsehair-Bristle/dp/B006ZBD95Q

Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2017, 12:12:45 PM »

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #85 on: January 18, 2017, 12:37:54 PM »
Oh, ok weird term for a disposable brush but who am I to question, thanks for the tip.

79merlin

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #86 on: January 19, 2017, 06:53:49 AM »
My dad was a plumber by trade and he used those to brush on acid core flux to pipes before soldering. Not sure if that's where the name comes from, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Greenbird76

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #87 on: January 19, 2017, 10:19:39 AM »
My dad was a plumber by trade and he used those to brush on acid core flux to pipes before soldering. Not sure if that's where the name comes from, but I wouldn't be surprised.
79merlin, ironically, my father was a plumber steamfitter and that is how I learned of those brushes too. 
I used the same method to apply my seam sealer- caulking gun to lay it and an acid brush to smooth it out.  It came out pretty good.  This pic shows the passenger side trunk drop off and frame rail section I replaced.  You can see the caulk on the clean out cover. 

Here is pic of the trunk floor after welding, primer, seam sealer,  Eastwoods aqua/ charcoal spatter trunk paint and a satin lacquer finish.  This was 7 years ago and it still looks as good. 

In this pic, right turnk extension w/ donor inner tail panel installed- getting ready to weld in driver trunk extension. 


Final tail panel adjustments before plug welding.  Another good pic of trunk floor after caulk and paint. 
I've got tons of pics of the build if you need to see anything specific. 
BUILT THE WAY GRAMMA WISHES SHE COULD HAVE ORDERED IT!!
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NOT A TA

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #88 on: January 19, 2017, 10:31:07 AM »
Using some wax & grease remover on your acid brush will smooth the seam sealer nicely. Just put a little of the remover in a small cap or something then dip brush and swipe the seam sealer. Can create a nice factory look that way.
John Paige
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Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #89 on: January 19, 2017, 03:31:58 PM »
Anyplace that I wanted to smooth out the seamsealer I used a trimmed down piece of a filler spreader. Again, I wasn't trying for nice and neat but most of my seams are difficult to see, at least on the outside.


formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2017, 08:49:04 AM »
I ran into a panel fitment issue and need some guidance. Here is a mock up of the inner panel:

Driver Side




Pass Side




At first I thought the inner panel was bent or warped but I put a straight edge on the bottom of it and both sides of it are equal in height, flat and pretty much level. Can't use the original to compare it because its completed deteriorated at both ends. Any suggestions on what I need to do next?

Also, should the inner panel be flush with the trunk bracket face?



Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2017, 02:05:16 PM »
I ran into the same issue just nowhere as bad. I used a file on an angle grinder to open up the holes on the new panel, but I only needed to remove about an 1/8". I would put the outer panel panel in place to see how the holes look. Worst case scenario is that the holes need some adjustment on the new panels. Only adjust the new panels not the origional frame rail or trunk brackets.

I wouldn't worry to much about it just as long as nothing moved which I don't think happened. Take a quick measurement of the bolts on your bumper and compare it to the holes in frame rail. Then check the holes in the new panels. You should notice that they are all close but not exact. Even my originals weren't perfectly lined up. I do not believe that brackets end up perfectly flush, I think the bottom brackets are just a fraction of an inch shallower.

Just to put you at ease, this isn't anything to worry about. You're going to run into variations like this with panels. What's important is that the holes are close. You're outer panel should have 2 holes that are smaller than the rest, that messed me up for a little while.

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2017, 08:03:48 AM »
Not sure if this matters but prior to starting work on the panel I debated whether to support the rear on the frame or axle and went with the axle option, does it make any difference for tail panel removal/install?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 10:05:29 AM by formula jg »

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2017, 02:32:41 PM »
Mocked up the outer tail panel and result took the wind out of my sail:







The holes are a little more than 1/2" off. Both the inner and outer panel holes line up perfect with the bumper bolts and I think I can work the the inner panel metal to get the pass. side down enough to align the holes but the outer panel is a mystery to me.

If you look at the 2nd pic there are 3 layers of panels that form the gutter corner but I don't recall the order their in, is the outer panel the bottom layer?

Any suggestions on what to do to get the outer panel higher?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 11:07:23 AM by formula jg »

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2017, 12:45:51 PM »
Been working on both inner and outer panels to get them to fit, I'm finding it fascinating how the metal can be shaped but a lot of trial and error. The inner fits great now and should be ready to weld in couple of weeks, do I need shielding gas? If yes, what type?

Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2017, 12:45:51 PM »

FormTA

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2017, 04:13:46 PM »
Yes, I have been getting mine at Tractor Supply as most of the welding shop are too far away or close before I get out of work. I use a tri-mix. Argon, CO2, something... You also need solid wire. Most welders come with a flux core wire, you can't use with MIG welding.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 04:15:32 PM by FormTA »
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formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2017, 09:35:07 PM »
The new inner and outer panels I have are a horrible fit, I've had to bang up almost every square inch to get them to fit good enough but still far from perfect. I'm not sure if there's bigger issues to deal with as follows:
a.    When I mock up the outer panel and close the trunk (with no weather strip) the middle spoiler lines up flush on one side and sits lower on the other side. FYI-The rear spoiler lined up perfectly before I started this project.
b.    After installing the new Supersoft weather stripping (with no adhesive) and closing the deck lid the mid spoiler sits much higher than the side spoilers. It's a new seal and does not compress well and when compared to the old seal the profile is different (how difficult is it to get the freaking profile correct, it's just rubber!). Gonna order a Metro or Steele seal, any preferences?

What I'd like to know is when the trunk lid is closed and no weather strip installed should the lid be flush with the quarters or slightly lower so that when the seal is in place it brings the lid back up to be level and flush with the quarters?








« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 07:27:47 PM by formula jg »

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2017, 07:41:43 PM »
With the rear tail panel removed and trunk lid lowered so it's flush with quarters I can see there is space for the weather strip to crush and form a seal so I'm gonna try a different seal.



I also just noticed the panel gap changed on one side:





So I tried this:



Gap on either side is much better and some how it also brought the center spoiler more in line with the quarter spoiler pieces, not sure how that happened but I'll take it (sorry forgot to take a pic of the gaps before I left).




 

FormTA

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2017, 09:44:27 PM »
Can you raise the trunk latch a bit (which lowers the trunk lid) so the lid matches the quarters better?
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formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2017, 06:14:19 AM »
Not at this time because the latch isn't installed yet.

FormTA

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2017, 06:59:14 AM »
Without the latch in how are you determining how high the lid sits when closed/latched?.

Unless the lid is hitting something solid you should be able to set the latch height so the lid sits where you want it or a bit lower then install the trunk seal latch the lid and let it compress the seal to shape.

Ohers, please chime in if I'm way off here.
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formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2017, 08:09:28 AM »
That makes sense however even without the latch installed yet (need to weld the cage back in after the new panels are welded in) I can't get the lid down enough to get close to the future latching area. I honestly think it's the Supersoft seal, look at the difference in profiles from the pic in my previous post where the old one has a gentle curve on the inside that follow the gutter shape perfectly the new seal has a sharp V shape that doesn't sit in the gutter well it naturally wants to spring up.

Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2017, 10:51:29 AM »
IIRC, the trunk lid should be set properly without the weatherstripping in place. Once proper alignment is achieved then the seal is put into place. I have to look back at my tail, but I removed some material at the upper corners. You may need to adjust the corners a bit.

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2017, 11:23:33 AM »
You removed weather strip material?

Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2017, 07:10:26 AM »
The PO put in a new weatherstrip/trunk seal, let's say 5-10 years old. I cut out about half of it when removing old panel.

In the 3rd pic from post #93, I had to cut off that tab and hammer/tap the corner of the tail panel into a shape that would fit nicely into the taillight extension.

Did you pry up the corners of the taillight extensions? I did and I needed to tap them back into place for my trunk to sit right. My trunk lid, on the driver's side, lower corner, was just a little under a 1/16" high before I started. It's was still that high when I put in the new panel.

Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2017, 08:01:20 AM »
The layers you asked about, top to bottom: quarter panel, tail light extension and then the outer tail panel.

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2017, 09:35:45 AM »
Thank you for clarifying the panel stacking order at the gutter corners.

I did hammer down the corners as far as they can go on the new panel but didn't think it was ok to cut them off or maybe trim the relieve (spelling?) cut so I can bend it down some more will have to see if that helps. The taillight ext. corners were pried up when removing old panel and I have tapped them back down but not sure how far down to tap them because there is no real reference point of where to stop.

Purchased my first shielding gas tank, I felt like a real man walking out with this little thing:



Either way it's an indication of progress (albeit slow).
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 10:13:13 PM by formula jg »

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #107 on: February 25, 2017, 10:24:41 PM »
I'm done hammering away on these new panels and ready to paint before I start welding. All holes have been drilled and surrounding area sanded to bare metal. I masked all holes and correspondoning flat surfaces that will be welded together before I paint. Can someone tell me if it's ok to have paint on the back side of the welded surfaces or should it be bare metal?

FormTA

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2017, 08:19:07 AM »
If you are talking about the opposite side of the piece you are welding, it won't matter as it will burn off from the heat.
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formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #109 on: February 26, 2017, 04:01:17 PM »
Thanks, I figured it would burn off but wasn't sure it it would 'hurt' the weld.

mrandrew85

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2017, 07:34:37 PM »
where did you buy the tail panels? also how many hours do you roughly have in swapping the panels around?

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2017, 07:54:17 PM »
Firebird Central, stay away from their panels.
Guessing 150 hrs including restoring gas tank and bumper frame.

mrandrew85

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2017, 08:11:30 PM »
is there a place that sells better panels ?

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2017, 05:13:35 AM »
I hear good things about AMD panels.

Ford5of5

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formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2017, 10:49:46 AM »
Look at the hammering marks on just the inner panel, so much time was spent on reshaping these new panels.




Also, note my outer panel did NOT come with the lock cage.

mrandrew85

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2017, 02:46:07 PM »
i called amd today because I couldn't find a tail panel on their website. They confirmed that they don't yet make one. I did see a piece that looks like it goes behind the tail panel on their website.

Year one and classic industries both sell a tail panel on their websites.

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2017, 03:51:10 PM »
Switching current topic for a moment. I picked some small pieces of sheet metal (no charge  :smile:)  to do a bunch of pratice welds and a small trunk floor patch.  Unfortunately I forgot to ask if they are galvenized. How do I check if galvenized or not and if it is can I still use it?

Ford5of5

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2017, 05:30:46 PM »
The only sure-fire way to tell is to weld on it. Galvy will leave a white powder and sometimes yellow liquid. Use a fan to suck the fumes away from you, they are toxic. Generally, if the color of the steel sheet is inconsistent and dull gray then it's likely galvy.

@Andrew, Goodmark is the only vendor I've seen for the rear tail panel.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 05:52:15 PM by Ford5of5 »

formula jg

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Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2017, 06:07:09 PM »
I sorted out the pcs and think I see the inconsistencies your talking about. Also checked on the web and it looks like the same gauge is actually a little thicker by a few 1000's for the galvy.

Re: Project Rear Tail Panel replacement has officially started (Pics Included)
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2017, 06:07:09 PM »
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