Author Topic: 455 transplant  (Read 4034 times)

Seven

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455 transplant
« on: May 29, 2016, 10:52:00 AM »
What would you think of this engine as a swap into a 72 Firebird Esprit street cruiser?

'73 455 block, .060 over Speed Pro forged pistons, Eagle forged h beam rods, stock crank, ARP hardware.
SD prepped KRE heads @295, 85 cc chambers, around 10.2:1 compression, Old Faithful cam
Edelbrock Performer or Performer RPM intake with Fitech go 4 EFI
MSD Pro Billet Dist.
Rare 2.5" manifolds, 2.5" exhaust with x over.
Tremec TKO 5 spd, 3.42 gears, 27" Nitto 255 50 17's

nas t eh

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2016, 12:57:22 PM »
Should work well.
current
73 T/A 4speed
past birds
75 T/A 455 4speed
75 T/A 400 4speed

72blackbird

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2016, 01:38:50 PM »
My 72 Esprit approves.


73 455 2-bolt main w/ ARP main studs
Probe flattops, Tomahawk 4340 A-beams
SD Performance 325 cfm CNC ported 87cc E-heads
SD Performance Road Paver roller cam
SD Performance Torker II port-matched intake

Geno
1977 SE T/A (sold :( )
1974 455 T/A (sold :( )
1972 Esprit restomod
1976 T/A restomod
1975 Formula 400 4-speed

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 03:53:16 PM »
I have a couple of concerns about the cam.  I want the car to have good street manners and burn 91 octane gas  because that's all I can get in northern Wisconsin.  So would a Stump puller be better?  Would a S. P. work with the 10.2 compression?

Would the performer be a better street intake?  I know it would fit under my stock hood.

Thanks for your input, its greatly appreciated.

nas t eh

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 04:53:11 PM »
I'd keep the O.F. and go RPM intake. I'm guessing you have power brakes, do you have AC? If no AC you could even consider the Road Paver cam since you are manual trans.
current
73 T/A 4speed
past birds
75 T/A 455 4speed
75 T/A 400 4speed

Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 04:53:11 PM »

Dandy77

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 05:36:27 PM »
I see no issue with 91 gas. Mine is a 70 455 build by Dave with everything you mentioned, except eagle crank and a 4 speed. I use a cast manifold port matched to the cylinder heads.  Compression is 10.7 and 3" Rare oval exhaust to the muffler then 2.5 round out back. Same tires and size.

cal30_sniper

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 07:01:06 PM »
Smaller runners of the Performer intake probably aren't going to play nicely with an engine that large. Performer RPM won't fit under your hood unless you convert to a Shaker with the drop base kit.

I'd run a factor iron intake. I converted a 69 intake by cutting off the heat and water crossover. That's what I'm going to run under the hood of my Formula with the E-heads. Cutting off extra stuff saved a lot of weight off of it.
'73 Formula 350
'88 Trans Am GTA L98
'86 Suburban C20 454/NV4500

Formula build thread: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=75375.msg705571#msg705571

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2016, 07:20:53 PM »
I have no AC at the moment, but plan to add a vintage air system after I recover from the engine swap.

Is there a way to use a drop base air cleaner without the shaker? I'm going for a sleeper look.  Would the Performer work if it was port matched to the heads?

nas t eh

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2016, 07:35:25 PM »
Maybe find a Edlebrock Torker II.
current
73 T/A 4speed
past birds
75 T/A 455 4speed
75 T/A 400 4speed

cal30_sniper

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2016, 09:58:15 PM »
Torker II will work if you're running a squarebore. A Holley Street Dominator or Torker I will work if you've got the Q-jet, but all three will hurt your low end. Gasket matching a Performer is all fine and good, but the real problem is the runners themselves are smaller. Works great on a mild 350 or 400, but people have had trouble running them on 455s and bigger.

I really don't see the reason to run a Performer. The factory iron intake is better, and not that much heavier once you've cleaned off the excess. Plus, you know it will fit.

I don't believe there's a drop base that will clear the Formula or Firebird hood. The factory air cleaner is already really low, and it still barely clears the hood.
'73 Formula 350
'88 Trans Am GTA L98
'86 Suburban C20 454/NV4500

Formula build thread: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=75375.msg705571#msg705571

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2016, 11:22:02 PM »
Fitech EFI is square bore, so the factory iron manifold won't work without surgery or a spacer.

I'll search for the T - 2. 

I've read the single plane intakes can work well with EFI.

Should have torque to spare.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

72blackbird

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2016, 12:52:06 AM »
Seven,
My 455 is also built to run on 91- Dave Bisschop set the chambers on my E-heads to give me 10.4:1 SCR. SD's Old Faithful is a great cam- with your heads you should make 550+hp, 575 lb-ft. Maybe a TKO-600 is a better choice if you haven't already bought the trans.

I'm going to be running a 850 or 950 DP, on my T-II, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with EFI. It is taller than stock though- depending on the height of your EFI, it may be too tall for a flat hood.

Geno
1977 SE T/A (sold :( )
1974 455 T/A (sold :( )
1972 Esprit restomod
1976 T/A restomod
1975 Formula 400 4-speed

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2016, 02:28:28 AM »
If I keep my stock hood, it looks like I'll get a cnc machined iron intake from SD performance.  Fitech is the same height as a Q-jet.

Otherwise its keep the Performer RPM, buy a PTFB drop base and find the right shaker and hood. Would that look o.k. without spoilers?

Man, mission creep is a killer!

cal30_sniper

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2016, 08:31:24 AM »
That's the way some of the SD Formulas came. Shaker hood, no spoilers. I think it's a good look, but I wouldn't trade my Formula hood for it. If I had a flat hood car, I might give it a go.

Honestly, for the price of all the shaker hood stuff, I'd probably just run a Holley Street Dominator and pocket the rest. Cliff Ruggles used one with a lot of success on his big cube Ponchos. I don't think you'll miss the low end torque with that much displacement. Might even help you hook up a little.

I'm putting the gutted iron intake on my aluminum head 400, but I have a Street Dominator that I'm going to cut the water cross over off of. Once the engine is up and running, I'll probably switch the intakes out and see how it runs. I plan to run a Quadrajet though, which reportedly has issues with the single plane intakes due to uneven fuel delivery.
'73 Formula 350
'88 Trans Am GTA L98
'86 Suburban C20 454/NV4500

Formula build thread: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=75375.msg705571#msg705571

72blackbird

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2016, 09:47:49 AM »
X2 on the shaker setup with regular Esprit bodywork- with a 550= hp 455 under the hood, nobody is gonna give you crap about running some T/A gear to help your engine make power. Plus it also looks mean as hell. I have most of the T/A bodywork, but I just liked the way it looks- I have NO plans to build a T/A clone, or to put T/A call-out decals on my Esprit either.

I am gonna put a hood bird on and "455" call outs on the shaker- way too cool not to have those decals on a 70-73 Firebird, real T/A or not.

Geno

1977 SE T/A (sold :( )
1974 455 T/A (sold :( )
1972 Esprit restomod
1976 T/A restomod
1975 Formula 400 4-speed

Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2016, 09:47:49 AM »

Formula8

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2016, 10:04:25 AM »
With your TKO, 3.42 gears and a 455 the traditional recommendations for an factory intake based on better performance do not apply.  Hood clearance and drivability.......yes, those will be improved with a factory intake but performance will likely be better with a Torker 2 or Street dominator.  Your combo spends a lot of time at a higher RPM than others with automatics and 3.08 gears.  There is a street dominator for sale right now on PY.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 01:48:13 AM by Formula8 »
71 Formula 433, 4 bolt splayed cap 400 block, 4" stroke Scat forged crank, 6.8 Eagle rods, custom Autotec pistons. SD 295 KRE D ports, Old faithful hybrid roller, factory intake, "Shaker tuned" Holley 800DP, Tribal Tubes, TKO 600, 3.73 Eaton posi. http://www.factcheck.org/

jonathonar89

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2016, 11:33:43 AM »
I'm x2 like most on the Terminator 2 intake  8-)

The single plane will be in perfect tune and provide nice air:fuel ratios across the cylinders with the TBI.  There will also be better hood clearance in comparison to the RPM intake.

Another option is the KRE Northwind intake manifold!
1979 Trans Am 400 T-top - Platinum Silver, Carmine Interior
http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=61460.0

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 12:14:45 PM »
Seems like I have many options.  Since the engine has SD heads and cam, I may e-mail them for their thought on the optimal intake under a flat hood.  I may have to settle for a little less performance, but it should be light years better than what i have now!

I 've been searching for a firebird 4 bbl air cleaner, with little (no) success. Seems like T/A air cleaners are an easier find.  Is there a lid (not for a shaker set up) that would cover the top to give me a stock look?

This forum is fantastic, thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience.

cal30_sniper

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2016, 12:56:46 PM »
Seems like I have many options.  Since the engine has SD heads and cam, I may e-mail them for their thought on the optimal intake under a flat hood.  I may have to settle for a little less performance, but it should be light years better than what i have now!

I 've been searching for a firebird 4 bbl air cleaner, with little (no) success. Seems like T/A air cleaners are an easier find.  Is there a lid (not for a shaker set up) that would cover the top to give me a stock look?

This forum is fantastic, thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience.

I've been wondering the same thing about air cleaners. My guess is that a 2bbl air cleaner lid can be used on a trans am base and work just great. I'll probably just bite the bullet and order the Ram Air cleaner for mine though.
'73 Formula 350
'88 Trans Am GTA L98
'86 Suburban C20 454/NV4500

Formula build thread: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=75375.msg705571#msg705571

73ta

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 02:51:46 PM »
Seems like I have many options.  Since the engine has SD heads and cam, I may e-mail them for their thought on the optimal intake under a flat hood.  I may have to settle for a little less performance, but it should be light years better than what i have now!

I 've been searching for a firebird 4 bbl air cleaner, with little (no) success. Seems like T/A air cleaners are an easier find.  Is there a lid (not for a shaker set up) that would cover the top to give me a stock look?

This forum is fantastic, thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience.

I'm running the old faithfull with edelbrock heads ported by SD. He also ported a stock intake aluminum manifold for me. Said it should flow close to a Performer RPM manifold without the fitment issues. Love the setup. Lots of HP, pulls to redline and I can lug it with my TKO 600 with 3:42 gears with no issues. My car is setup very similar to yours Seven, as far as engine, trans, exhaust, distrib & tires.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 02:56:54 PM by 73ta »

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2016, 08:26:55 PM »
The 455 mentioned above got away from me. 

After searching for a couple of months, I just bought a 455HO that came out of a 1972 GTO auto/air car.  It is fairly complete, including original 4 bolt main block, iron round port heads, factory aluminum intake with crossover, and factory round port exhaust manifolds without any cracks, but no carb. 

Disassembly revealed its had a prior rebuild with 30 over Sealed Power forged pistons.  Rebuild plans are in progress.  I want the engine to appear stock, but plan to increase compression into the low nines, install a forged bottom end, and run a mild roller cam.  Targeting 400 hp and 500+ tq. and good street manners.

Like most builds, am contemplating the right cam at the moment.  Any suggestions are welcome.

oldskool

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2016, 10:28:25 AM »
"...Disassembly revealed its had a prior rebuild with 30 over Sealed Power forged pistons.  Rebuild plans are in progress.  I want the engine to appear stock, but plan to increase compression into the low nines, install a forged bottom end, and run a mild roller cam.  Targeting 400 hp and 500+ tq. and good street manners..."


Easiest way to do all this is with a 4.5" stroker assembly, with flattop pistons, and a small roller cam, with somewhere around 230 @ .050 intake duration. KRE shows one with 230/236 & a 112 LSA--part # HR230. Butler can order the same cam. The Voodoo 282 would also be a good choice.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

http://butlerperformance.com/i-24453662-butler-performance494-503-ci-balanced-rotating-assembly-stroker-kit-for-455-block-4-500str.html?ref=category:1234866

http://www.krepower.com/Pontiac%20Cams%20and%20Parts.htm

http://butlerperformance.com/i-24623512-comp-cams-custom-hydraulic-roller-camshaft-cca-51-000-11.html?ref=category:1272239

http://butlerperformance.com/i-24453327-lunati-voodoo-hydraulic-roller-cam-and-lifter-kit-lun-20510712lk.html?ref=category:1234836

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-20510712lk?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-lunati&gclid=Cj0KEQjwo5--BRCS8ceLjv-XppUBEiQAGp15EHmYT9D-pqvWfDlsKiZToOrxWNB9clg4V2PWjnVpiRUaAl5o8P8HAQ

Since the carb is missing, I'd buy an 800cfm Q-jet, from SMI.

http://www.smicarburetor.com/products/sfID1/28/sfID2/9/sfID3/100

This engine will have well over 500ft lbs of torque, @ around 3000 rpm, and will have a smooth idle and plenty of vac, for power brakes. Probably never need to go over 5000rpm with this engine. And, it can look perfectly stock from the outside, and not sound radical.  Obviously, this big cube engine would make more upper end horsepower with a bigger cam. But, for street driving, you won't need any more hp. IMO :)



« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 10:54:13 AM by oldskool »

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2016, 08:29:32 PM »
The 455 HO build is moving forward.  Block, heads and crank all checked out.  Block should clean up at 40 over, and the crank at 20 under.  Going with full forged bottom end with custom pistons that will get us to 9.25:1 with the stock iron round port heads so we can burn 91 octane fuel.

Heads are unique and appear to be pre production pieces that have an X on the center exhaust ports where the 7f6 should be.  Expect the chambers to be 111 cc's but builder will cc them to be sure.

Full roller valve train with mild custom ground cam.

Still plan to run Fitech fuel injection, however hesitate to modify the original HO aluminum intake for the square bore TBI unit.  Performer RPM won't fit under my flat hood.  Am wondering if an Edelbrock Torker II would fit with the Fitech under the stock Esprit hood?  Any drivability issues with a single plane intake with efi on a 455?

oldskool

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2016, 08:39:58 AM »
I've read that a single plane will work good on a 455 street engine. Have also read that the Chinese single plane will fit under the hood. They are just over $100, on Ebay. Some say that they will usually need some port matching.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-326-350-389-400-421-428-455-Shootout-Intake-Manifold-Satin-/201627129924?fits=Make%3APontiac&hash=item2ef1e9d844:g:TQoAAOSwXeJYNNWb&vxp=mtr

Seven

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2017, 07:04:10 PM »
My '72 455 HO build is done, and the dyno session was conducted this morning.  It produced 463 hp at 5100 rpm and 540 lb ft of torque at 3700 rpm.  Torque output was over 500 at 3000. 

The bottom end is comprised of forged Eagle h beam rods and 40 over Diamond custom forged pistons with a mild dome.  Original round port heads without any mods other than taking off a few thousandths to clean up the mating surfaces and  Ferra stainless valves.  Compression ratio came in at 9.25:1.  Mild custom ground Comp roller cam and Harland Sharp 1.5 ratio roller rockers.  Stock Pontiac aluminum intake and carb.  Original 455 HO 2.25" exhaust manifolds.

The results pleasingly exceeded our goal of 400 hp and 500 lb ft.

I'll pick it up in a week or so and the transplant will hopefully be completed in August.

firebirdparts

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Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2017, 03:38:51 PM »
Sounds good!
I want to be like Paul Kenny when I grow up
Joe Bays
1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1969 Rokon 2x2 motorcycle
1986 Honda Fatcat

Re: 455 transplant
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2017, 03:38:51 PM »
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