Author Topic: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?  (Read 6401 times)

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2017, 09:46:38 PM »
Thanks again. Glad I've been of some help to you before too  :-) .

I'm sure the factory 4x10 is just one speaker. I guess they wired both front channels to it.

Since the whole idea of using the amp is to be able to use the better 4 ohm speakers that are available, I will consider something like that dual voice coil speaker for the front. Of course, I've also seen those threads where people install 2 small round speakers into the original 4x10 speaker frame, so I'm considering that too.

I'm going to have an AUX jack installed in my Delco am/fm cassette unit, so I can plug my iphone or tablet into it for music. With the amp and better speakers, it should sound real good, and still maintain the good looks of the original radio in the dash.

Got any recommendations for speaker brands for a quality sound at a moderate price? In the past, over 10 years ago, I've had some Pioneers and some Boston Acoustics. Both sounded pretty good, but I'm sure there have been technical improvements since them.

Also, I don't blast the music. Just looking for clarity of sound, and durability for a long life.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 09:50:10 PM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2017, 11:47:30 PM »
Thanks again. Glad I've been of some help to you before too  :-) .

I'm sure the factory 4x10 is just one speaker. I guess they wired both front channels to it.

Since the whole idea of using the amp is to be able to use the better 4 ohm speakers that are available, I will consider something like that dual voice coil speaker for the front. Of course, I've also seen those threads where people install 2 small round speakers into the original 4x10 speaker frame, so I'm considering that too.

I'm going to have an AUX jack installed in my Delco am/fm cassette unit, so I can plug my iphone or tablet into it for music. With the amp and better speakers, it should sound real good, and still maintain the good looks of the original radio in the dash.

Got any recommendations for speaker brands for a quality sound at a moderate price? In the past, over 10 years ago, I've had some Pioneers and some Boston Acoustics. Both sounded pretty good, but I'm sure there have been technical improvements since them.

Also, I don't blast the music. Just looking for clarity of sound, and durability for a long life.

What price range are you looking at for speakers? 

I don't blast it anymore either.  Especially in the car.  The speakers are so close to the ears that it can easily cause damage to them (which it has done so to mine).  But just because you don't blast them does not mean there is no reason to not spend as much as you are willing to on speakers.  I spend more on speakers to get better sound quality, not to handle more power.  For instance, my home stereo is only rated at 35 watts per channel.  But they are hooked up to 6' tall Martin Logan electrostatic speakers that retailed almost $5K a pair back in the late 90s.  They have 12" woofers.  People look at them and tell me "How loud do you need to play them?"  Big speakers does not mean "Loud", it means even at low comfortable levels, it can reproduce the full frequency range.  I can blast the speakers on my laptop and it will hurt my ears, not because they are necessarily loud, but they are screeching.   Kinda like nails on a chalk board. Even the decent 5 1/4" bookshelves hooked up to my TV hurt my ears when I play them as loud as my Martin Logans because they cannot reproduce the full range (the lower bass range).  But if while scratching the chalkboard, additional sounds are being heard over the entire audible frequency spectrum (say someone playing drums, bass guitar, vocals and trumpets) then it's not as screeching to the ears.  This is the effect adding a sub will do, as well as getting better sounding speakers.  The better the speakers sound, the less I need or want to turn up the volume, because it just sounds so good already and I can already hear the bass at lower volumes.  With smaller speakers, I tend to turn it up in order to hear some bass.

What size speakers are you looking for?  Where do you want to place them?  How much is in your budget?  Best systems are the simplest ones: 1 pair up front and a single sub in the back.
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Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2017, 07:04:10 AM »
I don't want to spend more than $300 for them all. I just want to use the stock locations. Nothing exotic. No component separation.

I was just re-reading the thread where the guy installed 2 4" Pioneers in place of the 4x10 dash speaker. I was thinking that better quality sound would result from a pair of 3 way 4" rounds than any 4x10 speaker, even one with dual voice coils. And a nice pair of 6x9's in back of course. I was thinking 3 way speakers for them too. No sub.

I was just wondering what you think are the best quality brands for replacements of original speakers for the money.
Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2017, 03:44:25 AM »
I don't want to spend more than $300 for them all. I just want to use the stock locations. Nothing exotic. No component separation.

I was just re-reading the thread where the guy installed 2 4" Pioneers in place of the 4x10 dash speaker. I was thinking that better quality sound would result from a pair of 3 way 4" rounds than any 4x10 speaker, even one with dual voice coils. And a nice pair of 6x9's in back of course. I was thinking 3 way speakers for them too. No sub.

I was just wondering what you think are the best quality brands for replacements of original speakers for the money.

4" speakers will sound better built as a 2 way, versus 3 way. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a 3 way 4" speaker.  Even a 6 1/2 will usually sound better as a 2 way than a 3 way.  Speakers that small do not need the 3rd speaker, the middle size speaker, which is a midrange.  The mid/bass in a 2 way is small enough to reproduce the midrange sound.  Bigger speakers like in a home stereo can benefit from midrange speakers. 

In a car you'd want midrange speakers (I'm talking about component speakers, not coaxial)  because of speaker placement.  If you have your Mid/woofer tucked away for example in the kick panels, because they cannot fit where you really need them to be, you could have a smaller midrange and tweeter easily mounted up higher in the door panels.  Higher frequencies are easier to pinpoint where they are coming from and it is harder to pinpoint the source the more they are pointed away from your ears or obstructed by something.  But as you go lower in sound frequency, like using a subwoofer, it becomes harder to pinpoint the sound. Below 80hz it is almost impossible to tell where a subwoofer is located and the sound doesn't change as much when moving it into different location.  That's why its fine to put it in a trunk.

A 3 way is more complicated because now you have to deal with 3 speakers instead of 2 that are producing the same frequencies at their extreme end range of sound frequency reproductions.  Or there could be a gap of sound.  Overlapping can be fixed by designing a more sophisticated x-over.  My $4800 6' tall Martin Logan home speakers are only 2 ways.  Not my system, but same model:


Back to speaker placement...
It's EXTREMELY important.  Stereos...stereo vs. mono.  Stereo = a left and a right.   Where are there 4" speaker you want going to go?  One on the left of you and one on the right?  So is it stereo now?  See where I am getting at?  I cringe even more when I see people cut up their beautiful center console because all the do then is make a mono/center channel speaker there.  At least the center dash is the factory location.

If the center dash is the only place you will have speakers up front, I'd go for a single 5 1/4" good speaker.  Unfortunately they are usually only sold in pairs.  Next option is put a set of 4" in there.

Here is something else you probably would never have thought of to do.  Given your budget, do put in a subwoofer. But only 1,  and put it where you would place your 6X9s.  And, it would be a 6-1/2".  So you might need to cut just a little to get then in there.  And you'd have to build a small box under the deck to seal up the remaining 6X9 hole.  Plus, subs and even regular 6X9's will sound much better in a box than in a huge free air trunk.
Here are some of those subs:
http://www.woofersetc.com/c-23-subwoofers/c-31-6-subwoofers.html
These are REAL subs, just that they need an amp, and will not play as loud as bigger subs.  With the same size  powered amp, they will not play as loud (but you're not looking for loud, just good quality bass).
And you will need to build a box, likely the size to fit 2  6X9s.  And I would probably mount it under the rear deck so they are in the same location as stock 6X9. 

Or, used 6X9 subs.  i don't think they will sound as deep as the round 6-1/2s.  And they will cost more because they only come in pairs, at about $200 a set.  But they will fit better and usually not require a box :
http://www.woofersetc.com/c-23-subwoofers/c-179-6x9-subwoofers.html

I would forget about using full range 6X9s in the back.  No one sits back there.  And even if they did, the speakers would be really loud since it would be so close to their ears.  And it would sound bad since it's behind every single person's ears, including the driver.  Speaker placement is key.  And again, they are so far away from you, that they will not sound like there are stereo speakers but instead mono speakers.   
See below?  You want speakers to be further apart to the left and right of you in order to get that sweet spot where it sounds like there is a left and right speaker and that center filled with sound too.  The further away in front or behind you the speaker are, the smaller that angle at the listeners head becomes, and that then makes the speaker sound like 1 mono speaker - that's what speakers in the back of our firebirds sound like, a single speaker at the end of a tunnel...


You can have a single set of $300 speakers in the rear or a single set of speakers (or just 1 speaker) in the center dash costing $100, the cheaper speakers will sound better- it's all about speaker placement.   So if I were you, I would take that $300 and spend about $200 up front on a set of 4", and in the rear get a set of 2 way $100 6X9s.   You'll be getting some decent bass from the 6X9s as well as a little bit of that stereo separation (that you will not have AT ALL up front using the stock locations), but from the front you'll be getting EXCELLENT sound quality and crisp highs!  ALWAYS spend the most for up front speakers.

Now if you decide you want more bass and aren't put off or scared of doing some extra cutting or box designing, then you might want to replace the 6X9 coax with subs back there.  Or just add a sub.

Speaker brands...I don't like suggesting with out saying: "Listen first for yourself".  Everyone has different tastes.  Unless I recommend $1000 car speakers (which I have a set in my one car: Dynaudio) or multi thousand dollar home speakers, some people will LOVe the sound, and others will HATE the sound...Given that, 20 years ago when I sold car stereos, for a budget, $100 Polk Audio DB series are (were, not sure now) an EXCELLENT value and sounded very good.  I would get their 2 way 6X9s.  I usually recommend speakers only from a company that main or only products they make are speakers. They've been around since 1972 and use to make very high end speakers and still make great valued speakers (unlike JBLs, which I've also owned since the 80s and still have some from the 90s).  I've heard lots of owners of Alpine say good things about their speakers and some people on this forum use them.  They say it fits/installed really well too. 
For up front, I would get these:
Morel Tempo 4C 4" 50W RMS Integrated 2-Way Coaxial Speakers $189.
Not sure if the protruding tweeters would be in the way.  But these wouldn't be, and I would suggest these better sounding ones (albeit now out of your budget) :
Morel Tempo Ultra 402 Integra 4" 60 Watts RMS 2-Way Coaxial Speakers $250
They can be found here:
http://www.woofersetc.com/c-172-speakers/c-9-coaxial-speakers/c-45-4.html
I would check on depth too...

So $100 for the 2 way Polk Audio DB series 6X9.
Up front a set of Morel 4" from $190-$250.

I have a set of CDT 6X9s in the back retailing at $200 (I got for $150 on sale).  My ear are messed up and I cannot handle having speakers too close to my ears in the car, so that is why I got the rear speakers.  And I didn't go all out on rears since speaker placement makes it difficult to get good sound back there.  Although I am thinking of getting a pair of 5 1/4" Morel Hybrid 502 components up front ($699).  As mentioned before, I have the Dynaudio in my other car (up front, and nothing in the back except a sub), but the money I spent on them I wonder about since I have to always play them very low, with an occasional blast once in a while (because of my messed up ears).    I have a 12" Image Dynamic IDQ subwoofer in the TA now, which I took out temporarily from the car that has the Dynaudios.  That 12" may be an overkill since it takes up so much room so i may end up using it in my little SUV.  Plus I think if it made a bigger box for it it would sound better (but then not fit in my TA).
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 03:47:08 AM by 78TA_In87 »
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Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2017, 09:48:01 AM »
I would've replied sooner, but the forum was crashed all day yesterday and this morning until now.

Thanks again for such an in-depth reply! You've certainly made me rethink my plans.

I had always thought that using the best pair of 3 way 6x9's in the rear, and smaller, lesser speakers in the front, just for fill-in, was the way.
But now, I see that it makes sense to have the best speakers that I can fit in the front for the midrange and tweeter, and having mostly bass in the rear. You've inspired me to read several of the Crutchfield tech articles too, so with your advice and the aritcles, I feel much better informed about amps and speakers.

Thanks for the speaker recommendations and links. I might could spend a little more for those nice speakers. I already bought that Pioneer 4 channel amp, so it's on the way.

So, thanks again for spending the time to give such great advice and recommendations on this subject!

Steve F.

Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2017, 09:48:01 AM »

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2017, 11:27:57 PM »
Now all this discussion has made me want to upgrade my TA speakers!  :lol: Enjoy the amp when you get it!  Let me know if you need any help figuring out how to hook it up.
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Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2017, 02:02:13 PM »
Since we last spoke, I had an aux jack put in my original am/fm cassette Delco, and it looks and works great. I played my iphone and tablet through it and it sounds very good considering the 38 year old original speakers in my 79 TA. It makes a huge difference in the usability of the radio. 

Listening to the sound from the center dash speaker, I have decided that I much rather have stereo separation in the front. So, I've decided to experiment with putting 4" coaxials in the kick panels. I think those $190 Morel 4" coaxials would work well there. According to the specs, they're less than 2" deep. I've pulled my kick panels and there is an indentation in the body metal that I think will allow enough room to put the speakers behind the kicks.

Those Morels sure look nice. I was looking at their component setups and they are interesting, but pretty expensive. I thought about the mid woofers in the kick panels and tweeters in the windshield pillar moldings. But I might not like the highs from the tweeters aimed that directly and close to my ears. I think I can get an excellent result from the coaxials in the kicks, where they're still close but less direct.

Still waiting on my amp. It's supposed to be delivered today.
Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2017, 02:32:44 PM »
Since we last spoke, I had an aux jack put in my original am/fm cassette Delco, and it looks and works great. I played my iphone and tablet through it and it sounds very good considering the 38 year old original speakers in my 79 TA. It makes a huge difference in the usability of the radio. 

Listening to the sound from the center dash speaker, I have decided that I much rather have stereo separation in the front. So, I've decided to experiment with putting 4" coaxials in the kick panels. I think those $190 Morel 4" coaxials would work well there. According to the specs, they're less than 2" deep. I've pulled my kick panels and there is an indentation in the body metal that I think will allow enough room to put the speakers behind the kicks.

Those Morels sure look nice. I was looking at their component setups and they are interesting, but pretty expensive. I thought about the mid woofers in the kick panels and tweeters in the windshield pillar moldings. But I might not like the highs from the tweeters aimed that directly and close to my ears. I think I can get an excellent result from the coaxials in the kicks, where they're still close but less direct.

Still waiting on my amp. It's supposed to be delivered today.

Having speakers in the kick panel will be WAY better than together in the center dash, as well as compared to the rear deck.  You could also go bigger with a 5 1/4 set there. If you do go with 4", make sure to use the 6X9 and/or sub in the rear to get you some of that bass that 4" speakers cannot provide and then you'll be good to go!  What you can also experiment with is setting your amp to pass only bass to the 6X9s.  So you'll be sort of using the 6X9s as a subwoofer.  This will really give you good stereo separation up front and a little bit of an idea of how a sub would sound. 
I think having separate tweeters up on the dash with speakers in the kick panel might not sound good.   They will be too far away from mid/woofers in the kick panel.  Better to have them as close as possible to each other.

You got me to convince myself to order a new subwoofer.  I ordered this from Crutchfield,  2AM (LOL) Sunday morning:
Morel Ultimo SC 104
10" 4-ohm component subwoofer

And I'll get a set of Morel separates once I get my car back from the shop.

I'm at work now so my reply is short.  I'll write more later and let you know how to set up the 6X9 temporarily to experiment it as a sub.
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Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2017, 02:38:27 PM »
Okay, I like that idea. Thanks!
Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2017, 09:54:54 PM »
I might get these Morel in the 1st video.  These are 3 way components.  I think below 400HZ goes to the mid/woofers that he put in the door.  About 400HZ goes to the midrange speaker you see.  Speaker placement is critical, so because it would not sound good having just a tweeter up there, he has enough room to put a 3 1/2" or so midrange.  The larger 5 1/4 or 6 1/2 woofer is less directional (because it produces lower frequencies. like I mentioned before, where 80Hz and below that usually a subwoofer will be producing, it's usually impossible to hear the location where the sound is coming from)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p4VKc1Mep8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p4VKc1Mep8</a>

Skip here to 40 seconds in for another 3 way set up:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGVizSlRXTY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGVizSlRXTY</a>

As mentioned before, if you can get the 2 ways close to each other, no need for 3 ways. Morel's most expensive speakers at Crutchfield are not 3, but 2 ways (not sure if they make these models in 2 ways).  The go for $5500!
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_210SUPR602/Morel-Supremo-602.html?tp=106

I'll explain soon why I am thinking of getting 3 ways, not 2 ways (it's got to do with my messed up ears...)
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Aus78Formula

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2017, 06:18:12 AM »
Wow, you want perfect concert stereo sound but also to hear the exhaust note. All I see is some hideous growth forming on the pillar. When did compromise get so far out of balance!?

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2017, 07:22:07 AM »
I might get these Morel in the 1st video.  These are 3 way components.  I think below 400HZ goes to the mid/woofers that he put in the door.  About 400HZ goes to the midrange speaker you see.  Speaker placement is critical, so because it would not sound good having just a tweeter up there, he has enough room to put a 3 1/2" or so midrange.  The larger 5 1/4 or 6 1/2 woofer is less directional (because it produces lower frequencies. like I mentioned before, where 80Hz and below that usually a subwoofer will be producing, it's usually impossible to hear the location where the sound is coming from)

As mentioned before, if you can get the 2 ways close to each other, no need for 3 ways. Morel's most expensive speakers at Crutchfield are not 3, but 2 ways (not sure if they make these models in 2 ways).  The go for $5500!
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_210SUPR602/Morel-Supremo-602.html?tp=106

I'll explain soon why I am thinking of getting 3 ways, not 2 ways (it's got to do with my messed up ears...)

Those sound really good.
Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2017, 03:33:31 AM »
They do sound real good!  But keep in mind that what you are listening to is your computer speakers, not the actual car speakers.  Any speakers that sound as good or better than your computer speakers will only be able to sound as good as your computer speakers, when listening to your computer speakers.  Another eason why it might appear to sound good, is because of his choice of music and his recording equipment.

So what I am considering (and started to write about in my previous post), is to get 3 way components for the rear.  6 1/2" will go where the 6X9s normally go.  Then the mids and tweeters will go in a custom built enclosure and place facing the front, instead of up towards the ceiling where it will bouncing back and forth causing undesirable reflections (especially when the higher frequencies are facing that hard glass that is also so near them), resulting in distortion, soundstage and phase issues, muddy and just plain bad sound.  As you go up higher in frequency, the more these reflection artifacts become noticeable. 

With 6X9s, the tweeter is usually dead center in the speaker.  And because of that, the soundstage is mostly determined by this narrower distance.  So in that triangle diagram I posted earlier, if you place the tweeters further apart, the sound stage widens.  As it is now, the driver's tweeter is pretty much directly behinds the driver's head, not to the left, and both speakers back there are pretty far away.  By placing the tweeter (and the midrange) wider apart, that will widen the sound stage, and make the left speaker sound like it is really coming from the left, and not just straight behind.   Bringing the speakers closer up to the front, wall also widen the sound stage (the 2 speaker angles in that diagram increase, getting closer to 60 degrees).  To bring it closer, I will probably mount the mid & tweeters on that flat part of the sail panels below where the seat belts retract.  I'll also aim the speakers towards the center of the dash. I have a set of tweeters from an old system so I can play around with their location before I make a purchase.

I'll probably get the Morel Virtus 602 2-ways for my daily driver.  If I like they way they sound, I'll get the 3 way version (Virtus 603).  If I feel I'd like something better, I'll jump up to the Morel Elate Titanium 603 3-ways.

I got my woofer in from Crutchfield a few days ago.  Did you get your amp?  Pick out speakers yet?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:35:11 AM by 78TA_In87 »
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Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2017, 07:49:22 AM »
I did receive the amp. Good looking unit.

I also installed my Delco radio with the aux jack and tried it out playing my iphone and tablet through it. Works great. Photo below.

I have a junk 81 Firebird parts car, and I experimented with it to figure out how I was going to install kick panel speakers in my TA. I have a cheap pair of 4" speakers that I used for trial fitting. There is an indention in the body metal behind the kick panels, but the indention isn't deep enough to clear the speaker magnet. So, I cut the indention out making a hole that clears the speaker magnet. And I cut the hole in the kick panel to line up with the hole in the metal, so with the speaker installed in the kick panel,
everything fits. So, that turned out good. I'll install a box inside the body hole to protect the backside of the speaker from being exposed to potential dampness that it might be exposed to inside the vent area cavity. Photo below of the speaker installed in the parts car.

I've decided on the Morel Tempo 4c 4" coax speakers. I discovered they come with an adjustable direction tweeter which can be aimed for best sound. That should be interesting. They come with crossovers, and grilles which are needed in my case. For the rears, I think I'll also spend a little more and get the matching Morel Tempo 69c 6"x9" coax speakers. So, I'm going to order those today.

So, that's what I've been up to  :)

001 by grand73am, on Flickr

 DSCN0646 by grand73am, on Flickr
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 07:58:22 AM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2017, 07:54:00 PM »
The stock stereo with the custom input looks sweet!!  That speaker combo will sound sweet too!!

What I would never have considered, and hadn't until yesterday, were so called "shallow" woofer speakers.  I've never heard a real good set. But these by Morel had non-believer REAL like them!  And these truly are SHALLOW!

A little pricier, but about the same price as the 2 sets you plan to get (?)  And they are larger than the ones you want to put up front (so more bass), plus will sound better overall as it uses better quality components.  And you'll have separate tweeters that you can place up higher, so that will greatly improve the sound stage and sound quality (even if you can tilt the tweeter in the 4C's).  They will sound like they are in front of you, not coming from the floor.

So something to consider... (I'm doing so)

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_210VIRN602/Morel-Virtus-Nano-602.html?tp=106&awkw=201487997305&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=102806235625&awdv=c&awug=9031546

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/222953-want-some-flapjacks-s2000-basic-build-review-morel-virtus-nano-arc-am.html

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPr_TAfJxlI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPr_TAfJxlI</a>

This guy is a little  :lol: looney:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRc30INA-Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRc30INA-Y</a>





« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 07:56:00 PM by 78TA_In87 »
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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2017, 07:54:00 PM »

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2017, 11:47:28 PM »
The stock stereo with the custom input looks sweet!!  That speaker combo will sound sweet too!!
   Thanks!

Quote
What I would never have considered, and hadn't until yesterday, were so called "shallow" woofer speakers.  I've never heard a real good set. But these by Morel had non-believer REAL like them!  And these truly are SHALLOW!
 
So something to consider... (I'm doing so)

No more considering to be done  :) . I already ordered the 4C's and 69C's yesterday (monday), so I should have them at least by Friday. I appreciate your recommending Morels, since I wouldn't have looked closely at them otherwise. I've never had speakers of this quality before, so I'm sure I'll be very happy with the sound quality. I'll report back when I get everything installed and working. Of course, the amplifier didn't come with wiring  :-? , so I had to go get a wiring kit today.

Steve F.

78TA_In87

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2017, 12:57:53 AM »
Awesome!!  You're gonna LOVE it!  Speakers are what makes the biggest difference in sound.  Always buy speakers from a company that specializes in speaker, like Morel!  You'll get good solid bass from the 6X9s, as well as great rear fill and ambiance, and great front clarity and imaging!  The amp will make sure your speakers will have the volume to drive the speakers, while being clean with low distortion!  Good choice of equipment!
PONTIAC - We (Did) Build EXCITEMENT!!

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2017, 08:21:35 PM »
Awesome!!  You're gonna LOVE it!  Speakers are what makes the biggest difference in sound.  Always buy speakers from a company that specializes in speaker, like Morel!  You'll get good solid bass from the 6X9s, as well as great rear fill and ambiance, and great front clarity and imaging!  The amp will make sure your speakers will have the volume to drive the speakers, while being clean with low distortion!  Good choice of equipment!

Sent you a PM  :-) .
Steve F.

77 Pontiac

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2017, 04:58:47 AM »
does the speaker grill clear the e-brake pedal in that location?
Greetings from Northern Europe :-)

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2017, 08:39:46 AM »
does the speaker grill clear the e-brake pedal in that location?

It is very close. The grille I'm using(not the one in the photo) extends about 3/4" above the surface of the kick panel, and the room between the pedal and kick panel is not much more than that. Since there's plenty of room between the park brake pedal and the brake pedal, I'm going to space the park brake assembly inboard to allow more clearance with the speaker grille. And then I'll still have to be careful not too hit the grille with my foot when using the parking brake.

If that doesn't work good enough, the speaker could be mounted on the metal behind the kick panel and a flat grille used to cover the kick panel hole.
Steve F.

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #60 on: July 04, 2017, 01:28:40 AM »
does the speaker grill clear the e-brake pedal in that location?

It is very close. The grille I'm using(not the one in the photo) extends about 3/4" above the surface of the kick panel, and the room between the pedal and kick panel is not much more than that. Since there's plenty of room between the park brake pedal and the brake pedal, I'm going to space the park brake assembly inboard to allow more clearance with the speaker grille. And then I'll still have to be careful not too hit the grille with my foot when using the parking brake.

If that doesn't work good enough, the speaker could be mounted on the metal behind the kick panel and a flat grille used to cover the kick panel hole.

I did not think about spacing out the ebrake pedal, that seems like a fine solution, please post how you did it if it works out as intended :D
Greetings from Northern Europe :-)

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2017, 01:42:18 PM »
does the speaker grill clear the e-brake pedal in that location?

It is very close. The grille I'm using(not the one in the photo) extends about 3/4" above the surface of the kick panel, and the room between the pedal and kick panel is not much more than that. Since there's plenty of room between the park brake pedal and the brake pedal, I'm going to space the park brake assembly inboard to allow more clearance with the speaker grille. And then I'll still have to be careful not too hit the grille with my foot when using the parking brake.

If that doesn't work good enough, the speaker could be mounted on the metal behind the kick panel and a flat grille used to cover the kick panel hole.

I did not think about spacing out the ebrake pedal, that seems like a fine solution, please post how you did it if it works out as intended :D

I came up with a what I think is a very good solution for mounting the speakers. I'll post details tonight.
Steve F.

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2017, 09:08:09 AM »
Okay, here's what I did. I realized that surface mounting the speaker on the left kick panel would not work, since there's not enough room with the park brake pedal. It would be difficult even with spacing the park brake over. So, I decided to mount the speaker on the body metal behind the kick panel, so it would be sunken behind the kick panel. I cut a hole in the metal that's approximately 4.5" x 4.5". I'm using 4" speakers with a speaker depth of 1.9". That's pretty shallow, but the speaker still would not mount flush to the metal, because the magnet hits the door hinge bolts inside the hole. I made some small brackets from sheet metal to hold the speaker out enough so the magnet doesn't bottom out on the door hinge bolts. The metal around the hole is not flat, so the brackets had to be made at different heights, so the speaker mounts evenly. Once the speaker was mounted, it was then a matter of precisely locating where I would cut the hole in the kick panel so it would fit around the speaker bezel evenly with the kick panel installed. I lined the cutout hole in the kick panel with some 1/4" OD rubber hose to fill some space and provide a finished edge around the hole. Once the kick panel is fitted over the speaker and the grille installed, I'm very happy with the appearance and function. I could have surface mounted the right speaker, since there's nothing to interfere with it there, but decided to do it like the left one so they'll match. 

Now the speaker grille doesn't extend much beyond the surface of the kick panel and there's enough room between it and the parking brake pedal. In the photos of the park brake pedal below, I have temporarily spaced the pedal over 1/4". This gives 3/4" clearance with the speaker grille. That's probably adequate, but I'm going to move it over another 1/4" - 3/8" to add additional clearance. I'll make a longer shoulder bolt and elongate the holes in the firewall to be able to move it over more.

I'm not finished yet, since I need to go back into both holes and install covers to block off the speakers from exposure to the vent chambers.

So, it turned out to be more work than I initially thought it would be, but I'm very happy with the results. These are 4" speakers, and they take up a lot room in the kick panel area as they are. I don't think anything larger would fit, if anyone was considering that.

a by grand73am, on Flickr

b - Copy by grand73am, on Flickr

c by grand73am, on Flickr

d by grand73am, on Flickr

e by grand73am, on Flickr

f by grand73am, on Flickr

g - Copy by grand73am, on Flickr






Steve F.

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2017, 09:56:48 PM »
I had another idea about providing more space between the parking brake pedal and the kick panel speaker. I noticed that the pedal arm is originally formed with a bend towards the kick panel. So, I decided to see what would happen if I straightened the arm. Below you can see how I cut the pedal arm at the bend, and then bent it to be straight, which leaves the "v" shaped cuts. Surprisingly, that little bit of straightening moved the pedal pad a good bit away from the kick panel, maybe 1/2"-3/4". I didn't measure exactly yet, but it's a significant improvement. I welded new metal into the cuts, and once finished with some grinding and sanding, you can't tell they were cut. Now that the arm is hanging straight down, the pedal pad ends up being crooked. So, I clamped the assembly in a vice, and used my acetylene torch to heat the bottom end of the arm red hot, which made it easy to twist the pedal pad with some channel locks to be square with the pedal arm, so the pedal pad will be straight when installed. The bottom 2 pics are the finished result, other than being painted and installed of course.

DSCN0716 by grand73am, on Flickr

DSCN0717 by grand73am, on Flickr

DSCN0718 by grand73am, on Flickr

DSCN0719 by grand73am, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 09:59:20 PM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2017, 03:19:21 PM »
"A for effort" or "where there's a will, there's a way."  These Pontiac guys can be really ingenious about getting a job done. 
1979 TATA 4spd
Hedman elite; Pypes 2.5; Borla XS; MSD 6A; Edelbrock intake; open scoop; modified Q-jet; Powermaster 150; 4 core radiator/Mark VIII fan; RobbMc mini starter; subframe connectors; solid body mounts; fiberglass rear springs; poly sway bar and link bushings; 81 master; D52’s; Blazer disks; 225/60 & 235/60 17's TrueContact's; relays for PW, PDL, lights; keyless entry

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2017, 10:11:42 PM »
Thanks  :-) .
Steve F.

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2017, 03:29:16 AM »
PONTIAC - We (Did) Build EXCITEMENT!!

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2017, 08:16:32 AM »
Those would've been good. I decided to do something different though. The hole inside the kick panel is enclosed top and bottom by reinforcement metal. But the hole is open in the front to the vent chamber area. I already had some aluminum flashing, so I cut some of that to make block-off plates. I also had some panel adhesive and seam sealer to glue it in with and seal it up. So, that makes a nice sealed off pocket for the speakers.

DSCN0724 by grand73am, on Flickr

DSCN0723 by grand73am, on Flickr
Steve F.

Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2017, 01:40:57 PM »
I still have some dash parts to install, but to wrap the kick panel speaker installation up, I thought I'd put up some final fit pics of the kick panel speakers. Had to trim a little off the rearward flange of the a/c vacuum valve plastic cover on the right panel to clear the forward curvature of the edge of the speaker grille hole. And after my park brake arm modification, I've got good clearance between left speaker and park brake pedal.

DSCN1197 by grand73am, on Flickr

DSCN1196 by grand73am, on Flickr





Steve F.

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2017, 06:29:19 PM »
Awesome work!!! What size speakers are those?

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Grand73Am

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Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2017, 07:50:13 PM »
Thanks! They are 4" Morel coax speakers. I figured I could either put 2 4" speakers on a modified speaker frame in the center dash speaker location as some people have done, or do this and try to have some stereo separation. So, I did this.

The grilles for these speakers are 5-3/8" diameter. I think they're over-sized considering they are only 4" speakers. I didn't try larger speakers, so don't know how well a larger one will fit in the body cavity. Maybe a 5-1/4" would work just as well, and if the grille was around 5-1/2", it would look similar to what I did. Or if you can fit a 5-1/4" or larger diameter speaker behind the kick panel, there is also the option of not using grilles, and instead drill a neat pattern of holes in the kick panel to let the sound out.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 09:02:29 PM by Grand73Am »
Steve F.

Re: Wanting a retro-modern radio, where to get one?
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2017, 07:50:13 PM »
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