Author Topic: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.  (Read 562 times)

barnfind

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Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« on: April 29, 2019, 07:57:21 PM »
I discovered an early production 1979 Y84, 403 that has been in a barn for 25 years.  Its in bad shape, but has minimal rust.  It is the correct paint and striping for a Y84, and the cowl tag info is correct with a Y84 stamp.  The dash, steering wheel, horn button, and wheel center caps are not SE.  It has a B&N shifter and tweeters where the door panel emblems would have been so I don't know what those items were originally. 

Maybe somebody swapped these items in its past life, but I don't know why they would have.  Maybe a production error?  Has anybody heard of any other Y84s that had production errors similar to this?  Maybe this is a clone Y84, but it does not make sense that they would go through all the effort to change the cowl tag, add the SE decals, and not swap out these other parts too. 

I know I should order PHS documents on it, but I am still trying to decide if the car is even worth the trouble to revive it or just part it and scrap it.  I am not sure if this Y84 barn find will be a survivor, or if I will give it a peaceful departure.. 

Casey

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 09:35:38 PM »
Why would they put tweeters where the emblems were and put in a B&M shifter in a stock car, so I'd lean towards previous owners' doing more than anything else especially if everything else points towards it being a Y84.  Dash cracks and steering wheel cracks/disintegrates, so those are easy enough to explain why they might be changed.  Wheel center caps are easy to lose, another easy explanation for why they'd be changed.  I think you're looking too deep into small things on a 40 year old car.

Aus78Formula

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2019, 09:50:05 PM »
Why is every car assumed to be original and therefore a factory error? Of course previous owners have made changes and then sold parts that were worth something to someone.
If you are unsure if the car is worth it, then it's not. Not everyone is making clones simply because they wanted to upgrade a feature or two.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 09:51:59 PM by 75Bird400 »

Casey

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 10:14:19 PM »
I think I'd be asking why it was left to rot in a barn more than why the center caps are wrong, but maybe that's just me.

Also most cars aren't worth restoring if you're in it for money, if it were a 400 4-speed then maybe.

Aus78Formula

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 02:49:52 AM »
Plus, anyone buying a car knowing the previous guy has restored it simply to sell, will also know it hasn't been done properly with as little money spent on doing things properly in order to maximise profit. Then opposite is the case if the guy restored it for himself, and likely spent far more than the selling price. It's also funny and common that guys who have stored these vehicles in appalling condition for years with little interest in preserving them, are the first to claim how valuable it is come sale time.

Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 02:49:52 AM »

Maxthe222

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 02:51:45 AM »

I discovered an early production 1979 Y84, 403 that has been in a barn for 25 years. It's in bad shape, but has minimal rust.  It is the correct paint and striping for a Y84, and the cowl tag info is correct with a Y84 stamp.  The dash, steering wheel, horn button, and wheel center caps are not SE.  It has a B&N shifter and tweeters where the door panel emblems would have been so I don't know what those items were originally. 

Maybe somebody swapped these items in its past life, but I don't know why they would have.  Maybe a production error?  Has anybody heard of any other Y84s that had production errors similar to this?  Maybe this is a clone Y84, but it does not make sense that they would go through all the effort to change the cowl tag, add the SE decals, and not swap out these other parts too. 

I know I should order PHS documents on it, but I am still trying to decide if the car is even worth the trouble to revive it or just part it and scrap it.  I am not sure if this Y84 barn find will be a survivor, or if I will give it a peaceful departure..

98% sure it's a Y84 if the cowl's there. PHS costs $75 if you're in the US, it's like $130 AUD for me, and i'm a broke university student. Anything with a Y84 on the cowl is worth getting a PHS for.

SE cars were very strict when it came to those things. Imagine paying more than a thousand extra for a car with the Special Appearance Package, having it delivered to the dealership, and none of the SE stuff is there. It would have been sent back. It's not a factory error.

Post some pics or take some pics, i'd be interested to see it.

If it's not rusted, it's fine and fixable. Unless the car has been wrapped around a pole then no rust = no fuss. There is no way a Y84 with "minimal" rust is not worth fixing. Paint might cost you $20,000 for a good spray and a good second hand interior might run you a thousand, all the SE stuff can be found repro for less than a few hundred bucks. $25,000-$30,000 and you have a very nice Y84. Tell me a good condition Y84 isn't worth more than $30,000. Very hard to tell the difference from the repro SE parts to the OG ones. Randy Combs will sell you a perfect gold dash for a few hundred.

I'll (begrudgingly even though I have too many of these things) even offer to buy it off you if you sincerely think you'd rather chuck it out. People restore basic formulas from rusted wrecks.

My mate's Y84 had literally all the SE stuff stolen out of the car, the door emblems, the gold dash, the entire steering wheel, etc. Only thing still on there was the gold wheel caps. His was in a shed on his parent's property for years, and it's not hard to open up one of these doors with a coat hanger and just cut out the emblems and unscrew the dash. They are a good quick $100 grab. Also what "75Bird400" said, owner might have sold those parts to someone, they are always in high demand.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 02:54:58 AM by Maxthe222 »
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 03:33:01 AM »
Like Max said...... Someone will buy it and restore it if it's not rusted away if so inclined.
Jeff
2016 Victory Cross Country
TATA '72 455 HO Auto
79 T/A 403 Solar Gold
69 F'Bird P-Touring T/A tribute to be
2010 Challenger R/T  PCP

firebirdparts

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 06:04:28 AM »
Production errors are certainly not unusual, but as old as it is, I wouldn't really go by that.  usually it's the other way around, you know, gold trim on a not-real-Y84.
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1977 Y82 4-speed (red interior)
1978 Skybird 350
1978 Redbird 305
1979 Redbird 301 4-speed
1992 Lincoln Mark VII LSC/SE (red)
1970 Datsun Pickup
1953 Chevy pickup (converted 4x4)
1988 T-bird Turbo Coupe

barnfind

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 06:56:05 PM »
Thank you everybody for the discussion.  It is interesting to read the various view points.  It gives me much to think about.  I will try and respond to the comments.

Why would they put tweeters where the emblems were and put in a B&M shifter in a stock car, ....  I think you're looking too deep into small things on a 40 year old car.

The car was 15 years old when it was parked in the barn.  I think that was the era when the black Trans Ams were daily drivers and not quite yet Garage Kings.  Although there are some modifications to the car, I did not see why all the gold trim would have been changed.

I think I'd be asking why it was left to rot in a barn....

The owner was injured in a hunting accident 25 years ago and became permanently disabled, which is why it was left in the barn.


Also most cars aren't worth restoring if you're in it for money, if it were a 400 4-speed then maybe.

.... is the case if the guy restored it for himself, and likely spent far more than the selling price.....

Food, Shelter, Clothing, and Daily Transportation are the only necessities in my life, everything else I want has to be considered an investment to justify owning it.  Spending far more $ on it then it could ever sell for = a bad investment, so that is why I am trying to decide is it even worth restoring it for myself. 


98% sure it's a Y84 if the cowl's there. PHS costs $75 if you're in the US, it's like $130 AUD for me, and i'm a broke university student. Anything with a Y84 on the cowl is worth getting a PHS for.

SE cars were very strict when it came to those things. Imagine paying more than a thousand extra for a car with the Special Appearance Package, having it delivered to the dealership, and none of the SE stuff is there. It would have been sent back. It's not a factory error.

My mate's Y84 had literally all the SE stuff stolen out of the car, the door emblems, the gold dash, the entire steering wheel, etc. Only thing still on there was the gold wheel caps. 

All makes a lot of sense.  I guess its a good possibility that car had been a theft recovery early in its life and had the SE stuff taken.  Since the SE cars were not as collectible back in the 80s, they may have just replaced the parts with what they could find readily available. 

Production errors are certainly not unusual, but as old as it is, I wouldn't really go by that.  usually it's the other way around, you know, gold trim on a not-real-Y84.

I like all the comments that everybody has posted, and everybody's differing opinions make sense in their own way.  I will go ahead and order the PHS docs.  I am not sure if they will answer any of my questions, but it should  at least confirm Y84 or not, which will make a big impact on my decision of what to do with it.

Casey

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 07:55:40 PM »
If you only want to restore it if you can break even or make money then just sell it to someone else or part it out, will save stress and hassle on your part.  Even doing it all yourself you'd be hard pressed much less if you have to outsource any of it.  If you're wanting a second gen then you'd probably be better off getting one already restored or one that's a nice driver quality, then when you get tired of it you can sell it for what you got it for.

Or if you're like me just get a nice fourth gen for less than a clapped out second gen and then you don't have old car b.s. to deal with and it's everything the second gen could've ever dreamed of being, but I'm young and don't have nostalgia for the second gen like others so your results may vary.

barnfind

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 08:43:50 PM »

Or if you're like me just get a nice fourth gen for less than a clapped out second gen and then you don't have old car b.s. to deal with and it's everything the second gen could've ever dreamed of being, but I'm young and don't have nostalgia for the second gen like others so your results may vary.

I already have a 2000 WS6, 6 speed.  You're correct, its a fun car to drive and good investment worth more than I paid for it. 

Aus78Formula

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 09:32:04 PM »
This forum would not exist if we all had an interest in a 20 year old 'easy' car. That's called a daily driver.

Casey

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 09:48:58 PM »
I already have a 2000 WS6, 6 speed.  You're correct, its a fun car to drive and good investment worth more than I paid for it. 
Well see there you go then.  I'm in a similar situation myself, bought at the bottom of the depreciation curve a few years ago and it seems the 6-speed cars anyway have gone up in value.  Wasn't my intention, but it's nice seeing as I have to sell it and can't drive it anymore.

This forum would not exist if we all had an interest in a 20 year old 'easy' car. That's called a daily driver.
Darn skippy it is, I've come to the point where the best project cars are the ones that need nothing to be driven. :lol:  That said I can get it somewhat with the older cars, more so if you don't take value to performance ratio into consideration anyway.  If I had money to blow I wouldn't mind another '79-81 and leaving it original, and not wanting or trying to make it into something it's not like last time.

Maxthe222

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 02:11:14 AM »
Well, what are your remaining questions? Like, what happened to all the SE trim? Did you ask the owner about it?

I think it is very easy to assume, that yes you are right in saying it was a daily beater car. It wasn't even technically the S&TB car, so people would have just seen it as an old, fuel chugging car, and would have just done whatever to it. Sound quality was probably more important than originality back then. And y'know what? The gold SE dashboards fade drastically if kept in poor conditions to a drab silver colour. For all we know, that could be the original SE dash that has just deteriorated. It'd be better to guess if we had some pictures to make better judgements.

So let's think about your car. Signs of an SE interior are the gold dash, steering wheel, gear shifter knob and the eagles on the door cards. The shifter was replaced, for "performance reasons" or aesthetic reasons (I don't know why people buy those shifters, but they are popular), the wheel likely was heavily worn and needed to be replaced with age. Or, a past owner had installed a custom wheel or something similar back when that was hip, and a later owner removed it and replaced it with a similar stock wheel. The door eagles were cut out for the speakers, and the dash faded due to poor treatment. I think that's a pretty reasonable explanation. I mean, you could even say the last owner gave you an elaborate backstory as to what happened to the SE appointments and no one would probably second guess you, because anything could have happened back then.

If you get this car for very little and restore it to a very decent standard, I don't see why you can't make money on it. I have seen many '79 Y84's sell in the 40-50 range, and that's sold price, not just a listing on CL. Especially if it's #'s matching. A Y84 SE will always be in demand over a standard T/A. If you are going to restore a base model Formula with a 301 engine to totally original specs, you'd probably not break even on it because that probably wouldn't the cost of paint. Even a standard T/A in some cases isn't worth restoring to sell.
1979 T/A Y84 WS6
1979 F/A W72 WS6
1971 Formula 400 4-Speed

barnfind

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Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2019, 06:49:53 AM »
Well, what are your remaining questions? Like, what happened to all the SE trim? Did you ask the owner about it?..... For all we know, that could be the original SE dash that has just deteriorated. .....

 I mean, you could even say the last owner gave you an elaborate backstory as to what happened to the SE appointments and no one would probably second guess you, because anything could have happened back then....    Even a standard T/A in some cases isn't worth restoring to sell.....

Very good insight and I agree.  The PO said this is the way he got it shortly before his hunting accident, and he did not even know there was anything odd.   It was not considered a collector car back then, when mods were a bonus and not scrutinized. 

I know it is not a faded gold dash  because   it does not have the black edging.  It is my understanding that the SE dash bezel has black edge that does not fade away, and mine has the silver edge. 

I completely agree that for me, it is not worth restoring if it is not a Y84.  I would like my "investment toys" to appreciate, but at least not depreciate.  Looking up Hagerty's evaluation tool, the Y84 is worth more than the TATA.  Probably because the TATAs were collected and most are still around, while the Y84s were driven, abused, and who knows how many are left??    Hopefully PHS will confirm its a Y84, and I won't worry about why all the SE gold trim is not on the car. 

Re: Odd Y84 survivor on life support.
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2019, 06:49:53 AM »