Author Topic: Different carb  (Read 8811 times)

freebird01

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Different carb
« on: June 13, 2013, 10:06:11 AM »
The carb thats on my 301 n/a is a bit suspect... im thinking about replacing it with maybe a reman'ed edelbrock 600cfm. Will i have issues with the shaker scoop fitment?

nwrclint2000

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 10:41:43 AM »
May be better to buy an edelbrock quadrajet carb. Check jegs or summit
My name is Clint and I'm a recovering addict. I used to be addicted to Japanese food. That is all.

77 Firebird Formula 301 T-Top Brown
77 Trans Am Z-Code Black on Black
78 Firebird Formula 301 Hardtop Martinique Blue
1980 Trans Am Indy Pace Car(my new girlfriend)

jjr

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 01:43:36 PM »

 I think I'd just have the original rebuilt...
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 01:57:14 PM »

 I think I'd just have the original rebuilt...

i thought about that too. id have to get another carb and rebuild it. right now the t/a is my DD and until i can get my truck back on the road again i cant afford to have it down for too long. if i do that it almost makes sense to just buy a new one

nwrclint2000

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 02:20:32 PM »
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/m20ProductDisplayView?pageSize=10&resultCatEntryType=2&searchTerm=&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&productId=979154&storeId=10001&sType=&pgGrp=search

$389.00 plus shipping

If you have your's rebuilt it will be over $200 and the rebuilder may be using old leftover parts. I made thr mistake of having mine rebuilt and still having problems. Should have gotten one of these.
My name is Clint and I'm a recovering addict. I used to be addicted to Japanese food. That is all.

77 Firebird Formula 301 T-Top Brown
77 Trans Am Z-Code Black on Black
78 Firebird Formula 301 Hardtop Martinique Blue
1980 Trans Am Indy Pace Car(my new girlfriend)

Re: Different carb
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 02:20:32 PM »

nwrclint2000

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 02:21:56 PM »
Same price as a goos edelbrock at the parts store would cost.
My name is Clint and I'm a recovering addict. I used to be addicted to Japanese food. That is all.

77 Firebird Formula 301 T-Top Brown
77 Trans Am Z-Code Black on Black
78 Firebird Formula 301 Hardtop Martinique Blue
1980 Trans Am Indy Pace Car(my new girlfriend)

freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 06:14:39 AM »
the more i listen to this engine the more i feel i got bigger issues. started a knock first thing this morning. went away after a few seconds but it sounded like a rod knock... as well as its had a valve tap for a little while...

ugh...

nwrclint2000

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 08:39:20 AM »
Best thing to do is find a local mechanice to run a test on it. Dont throw money
My name is Clint and I'm a recovering addict. I used to be addicted to Japanese food. That is all.

77 Firebird Formula 301 T-Top Brown
77 Trans Am Z-Code Black on Black
78 Firebird Formula 301 Hardtop Martinique Blue
1980 Trans Am Indy Pace Car(my new girlfriend)

freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2013, 10:36:02 AM »
Best thing to do is find a local mechanice to run a test on it. Dont throw money

i don't need to find a local mechanic... i know bad engine noises when i hear them. been working on cars/trucks since i was 14... I am currently rebuilding a 7.3 diesel due to top end issues.

the carb issue really in the grand scheme is minor. typical dieing out when you mash it (bad accel pump more then likely) but it idles smooth and has been getting decent fuel mileage.

my biggest issue is the many previous owners have neglected this car. the guy i got it from was a young college kid that really didn't know what he was doing so he left most stuff alone (its a good thing i guess)...

sometimes its better to start with a good baseline then deal with issues you are dealt with due to neglect...

jjr

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 11:34:42 AM »

> the carb issue really in the grand scheme is minor. typical dieing out when you mash it (bad accel pump more then likely)
> but it idles smooth and has been getting decent fuel mileage.

   The accel pump covers the transition to the main metering circuit, with the power circuit also
 used by load.

   Today's ethanol blend will degrade the materials that originally resided in the Quadrajet. Modern rebuild
 kits included a Viton accel pump piece that survives ethanol.

  In my experience, most the carbs I have looked at, all suffered from needing a decent cleaning to even see
what other issues where present. Internal debris and old gasoline varnish like goo prevent it from working
properly.

 There exists quite a range of carb rebuilders out there and much of the problem comes from price shopping.

 A giant rebuilder makes money on volume, and doesn't sweat the small details... the very details that will
make a difference when you go driving.

 Almost the same problem exists when you buy a one carb fits all replacement.

 Joe
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

nwrclint2000

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2013, 11:38:34 AM »
True
My name is Clint and I'm a recovering addict. I used to be addicted to Japanese food. That is all.

77 Firebird Formula 301 T-Top Brown
77 Trans Am Z-Code Black on Black
78 Firebird Formula 301 Hardtop Martinique Blue
1980 Trans Am Indy Pace Car(my new girlfriend)

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2013, 11:58:35 AM »
the more i listen to this engine the more i feel i got bigger issues. started a knock first thing this morning. went away after a few seconds but it sounded like a rod knock... as well as its had a valve tap for a little while...

ugh...

I don't think rod knocks generally go away. Could just be piston slap until the engine gets warm enough to close the gap. It could take just a minute or it could develop into a sound that never goes away.

Best way to check for a rod knock is to pull the plug wires one by one while its making the noise. If it stops when the load is off the rod, there's your culprit. Or if its severe, the filter will be full of metal.
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2013, 12:05:43 PM »
thats what it sounded like...not saying it was. but it seemed to go away as soon as the oil pressure came it. i mean it was only 15-20 seconds or so... ive had the car about 2 weeks and have been driving it daily since i got it...first time ive heard it was this morning



the more i listen to this engine the more i feel i got bigger issues. started a knock first thing this morning. went away after a few seconds but it sounded like a rod knock... as well as its had a valve tap for a little while...

ugh...

I don't think rod knocks generally go away. Could just be piston slap until the engine gets warm enough to close the gap. It could take just a minute or it could develop into a sound that never goes away.

Best way to check for a rod knock is to pull the plug wires one by one while its making the noise. If it stops when the load is off the rod, there's your culprit. Or if its severe, the filter will be full of metal.

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2013, 12:42:30 PM »
And it could have been. Do you have good gauges in the car? As in, a mechanical oil pressure and temp gauge set up? If you've lost a rod bearing, you'll have pretty low oil pressure nearly all of the time.
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 12:48:16 PM »
not yet...it was in the works...the oil pressure gauge reads 60# whether the key is on or off... i was planning on doing a map pocket panel or something...just haven't had the car long enough to get there

Re: Different carb
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 12:48:16 PM »



freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2013, 05:34:52 PM »
Well...did an oil change this weekend and got rid of the junk fram filter and put in some valvoline 10-30.... got a manual oil pressure and temp gauge installed too..

Hot idle no oil pressure!!! At speed its got 40-45psi

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 06:22:19 PM »
At idle it has absolutely NO pressure? My big block chevy make around 20 pounds at a hot idle and 60 at highways speeds.
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 06:53:41 PM »
Yep.....blip the throttle it comes up....goes down as it comes back to idle then bam drops off completely

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 07:47:59 PM »
In my limited experience with a spun bearing, the oil pressure remains near zero even with throttle, unless its somehow slipping the bearing back into a place where it gets oil. Is it still knocking?
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2013, 05:18:14 AM »
It still has a clatter to it that sounds like valve train. Much higher pitch then a rod knock. But the PO had a fram filter on the car too...i think that noise i heard on start up the other morning was because of that. Fram filters are cheap pieces of junk anymore. The check valve inside is made cheaply and they tend to leak down over night and starve the engine on startup...i also checked the timing and they had that all messed up....was set to 20° btdc!!!! I put it back to 12° where its supposed to be... once i get my diesel back together ill be on the hunt for another motor
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 06:48:34 AM by freebird01 »

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2013, 04:13:37 PM »
If its valve train, you may try just adjusting the rockers. If a lifter is bad, or possibly stuck, you will know it. Have you had the valve covers off?
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2013, 05:11:36 PM »
i did...it has non adjustable rockers

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2013, 06:07:14 PM »
Ah. Duh. It's a 301 haha

I'm at a loss then.
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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2013, 06:46:55 PM »
Talkin about a 301 in the 301 forum....who woulda thought? Lol

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2013, 07:27:55 PM »
Haha I totally wasn't paying attention. I'd just ease it around if its all you've got rational right now. Even with a spun bearing, a lot of valve train noise, a broken valve, etc, it'll still run.

Badly in a lot of cases. Lol
Respect the machine.

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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2013, 07:33:47 PM »
Well it hasnt made the knock again so im guessing it was the crap filter....my old ford 300 six would do that with cheap filters


jjr

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2013, 07:43:22 PM »

 "Why" would you think of adjusting the rockers in a system that has self adjusting
hydraulic lifters?

 
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 07:55:39 PM »
Im new to pontiacs... didnt know they were non adjustable....i just poped the pass side valve cover...seen that andunderstood pretty quick

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 08:11:03 PM »

 "Why" would you think of adjusting the rockers in a system that has self adjusting
hydraulic lifters?

 

I know that when I swapped new studs into my BBC and used factory lifters, the nuts (even locking ones) would back off and let the lifter clatter. If he thinks it valve train, he could have had a loose nut on an adjustable system. Plus, if you have a motor that sets for a long time, and a lifter gets stuck, or if it just gets stuck, I'm assuming you'll know it when you check the rockers and see that one is acting oddly.
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jjr

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2013, 01:47:45 AM »

> "Why" would you think of adjusting the rockers in a system that has self adjusting
> hydraulic lifters?

 I know that when I swapped new studs into my BBC...

 Great, yea that is relevant, "not".

1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

Big Block Bird

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2013, 06:08:07 PM »

> "Why" would you think of adjusting the rockers in a system that has self adjusting
> hydraulic lifters?

 I know that when I swapped new studs into my BBC...

 Great, yea that is relevant, "not".



Lets forget my lapse about it being a 301. Lets say some owner at some point, prior to his owning the car, swapped new studs in, or changed the heads. Maybe the nuts back off a little afterwards, and no one really noticed the noise until the other day.

I was offering a thought based of the experience I have. Excuse me for trying to be engaging and possibly thoughtful. If you don't like the comment, then ignore it. It wasn't bad advice, it wasn't rude, it was just a thought I had.

I promise never again to post an intelligent thought. I will resort to badly time wisecracks and puns instead. Maybe that'll better the community.
Respect the machine.

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freebird01

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2013, 07:43:14 AM »
well....here is a short update. turns out my oil pressure issue is a bit more simple then I thought.

I installed the gauges on a Sunday.... last Monday on my way to work i realized the gauge was reading zero pressure and next thing i know my floor is covered with oil. (no worries as it has cheap crappy roll carpet in it). so I stopped and bought a vice grip and clamped off the tube. well this weekend I got time to dig into again. seems the plastic tube had a slit in it i never seen. Which then the reading makes sense as it would suck air before the tube failed completely.

I pulled the console, trimmed the tube... re-fit it to the gauge and tried again. now it holds 25psi at hot idle which is a non issue. the engine still doesnt sound over healthy on first start up, leaks a ton of oil...carb needs gone though....

it WILL be getting replaced at some point... but at least i know it shouldn't blow up on me anytime soon *knocks on wood*

nwrclint2000

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Re: Different carb
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2013, 11:24:36 AM »
Awesome. Good to here you resolved the issue.
My name is Clint and I'm a recovering addict. I used to be addicted to Japanese food. That is all.

77 Firebird Formula 301 T-Top Brown
77 Trans Am Z-Code Black on Black
78 Firebird Formula 301 Hardtop Martinique Blue
1980 Trans Am Indy Pace Car(my new girlfriend)

Re: Different carb
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2013, 11:24:36 AM »
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