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Author Topic: Electric Window Relay Build  (Read 39052 times)

oldskoolubr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2013, 08:43:57 AM »
Do I need the standard or High pwr/HD Actuators to make this conversion/upgrade?
I found DEI 524T or 524N 2-wire kits...  Thanks!
Hey you guys bypassed my question?  :???:

SMFS_Fear_Mii

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2013, 09:11:33 AM »
Do I need the standard or High pwr/HD Actuators to make this conversion/upgrade?
I found DEI 524T or 524N 2-wire kits...  Thanks!
Hey you guys bypassed my question?  :???:

i didnt by pass it i just didnt know  :shock: sorry man
1979 Trans Am. 403 auto. but at least its numbers matching?
my build thread http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=60987.0

oldskoolubr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2013, 09:27:24 AM »
I know I was giving Winks a hard time! :D

MNBob

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2013, 12:05:15 PM »
Quote
what are the relays exactly? if i were to go to buy them, what would i ask them?

A relay is really a circuit powered switch.  They are a little box that usually has 5 connectors/tabs for two circuits. The low power side (circuit) is used to turn the switch on to allow current to run in the high power circuit.  The turning on of the low power side is done by some other component like a PW switch or a PD lock switch.

The purpose (one) of the relay is so high current does not have to go through the component switch.  The tabs marked 85 and 86 (see diagram on first page of this thread) on the relay are usually used for the low amp switching circuit.  The tabs marked 87 and 30 are usually used for the high current side (circuit).
 
The electricity can flow through these circuits in either direction.  Usually, one side of the low circuit is hooked up to a ground.  In typical operation, juice comes from the battery positive source, goes through a fuse, goes next to a switch (which is the load in the low circuit), goes through the low side circuit of the relay and to ground completing the circuit.  This activates the relay high side, which has a power source at one terminal and allows the high current to pass through the relay operating something like a window.  The high circuit is completed because the window is hooked up to a ground.

There is a little twist to this tale, however.  There is a 5th tab on the relay labeled 87A.  When the relay is not energized, 87A is internally (in the relay) hooked up to the 87 terminal.  However, when the relay is energized, 87A gets disconnected from 87.  So this is kind of like a reverse switch or a secondary switch operated by the relay.  You’ll use this feature if you do your power locks.

Here are the relays I used:

http://www.wiringproducts.com/40-amp-automotive-relay-with-metal-tab.html

I liked them because they had a corresponding plug to make wiring easier:

http://www.wiringproducts.com/pre-wired-relay-socket.html

However, you probably can find these cheaper at another source.
1979 TATA Extreme TKO .64
Hedman elite; Pypes 2.5; Borla XS; MSD 6A; Edelbrock intake; open scoop; modified Q-jet; Powermaster 150; 4 core radiator/Mark VIII fan; RobbMc mini starter; subframe connectors; solid body mounts; fiberglass rear springs; poly sway bar and link bushings; 81 master; D52’s; Blazer disks; 225/60 & 235/60 17's TrueContact's; relays for PW, PDL, lights; keyless entry

MNBob

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2013, 12:34:03 PM »
Quote
so where exactly is the window relay at? is it the relay behind the passenger side of the dashboard? on a 79. thanks.

The relay is under the dash about 10? inches to the right of the steering column.  Be sure to disconnect ground at your battery if you decide to remove it as one of the wires is hot.  I didn't and it blew my MSD ($200).  It is not needed and bypassing it will allow the windows to operate without turning on the car.

Here is a picture of the location (third topic down):

http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/techinfo/powerwindows/power.htm



1979 TATA Extreme TKO .64
Hedman elite; Pypes 2.5; Borla XS; MSD 6A; Edelbrock intake; open scoop; modified Q-jet; Powermaster 150; 4 core radiator/Mark VIII fan; RobbMc mini starter; subframe connectors; solid body mounts; fiberglass rear springs; poly sway bar and link bushings; 81 master; D52’s; Blazer disks; 225/60 & 235/60 17's TrueContact's; relays for PW, PDL, lights; keyless entry

duffinatur

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2013, 02:27:00 PM »
Thanks for the write up!  Saved for the future... (not too far in the future I hope).
Duff
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green bandit 77

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2013, 06:44:23 PM »
if anyone is interested i just did this and have extra wire laying around.  i can solder the powers and grounds together with a female connector on the end of each.  i soldered 2 of the wires going to the relay together. then soldered the other side.  add a length of wire on the end of each then solder those together. i add a inch of wire to the end of that so it can be soldered to the length of wire running from the battery or ground. or you could use a butt connector or insulated male/female.  let me know i enjoy this type of thing.

FNG

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2014, 12:56:43 PM »
i know this post is old but as i'm putting my car back together from a full resto,i thought i would update the windows and locks,as i want to add keyless entry/alarm.the question i have,isnt the smaller orange with black runner wire coming from factory window relay going to the lock switch for power?so will removing relay and jumping the 2 pins affect that?

p.s. i also for the life of me can not find where the door jam dome light switches plug into the interior harness.if someone could be so kind to help with that also.if it wasnt for this site i dont beleive i would have gotten this far with my project.thanks everyone for all the help.i know most my questions are some times pretty basic knowledge to others.
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EIRE V8

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2014, 04:49:13 PM »
I was just wondering what gauge wire to use for the connections?

rkellerjr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2014, 07:08:33 PM »
i know this post is old but as i'm putting my car back together from a full resto,i thought i would update the windows and locks,as i want to add keyless entry/alarm.the question i have,isnt the smaller orange with black runner wire coming from factory window relay going to the lock switch for power?so will removing relay and jumping the 2 pins affect that?

p.s. i also for the life of me can not find where the door jam dome light switches plug into the interior harness.if someone could be so kind to help with that also.if it wasnt for this site i dont beleive i would have gotten this far with my project.thanks everyone for all the help.i know most my questions are some times pretty basic knowledge to others.

You might want to start a new thread asking your questions over in Electrical instead of in here in Tech Talk

I was just wondering what gauge wire to use for the connections?

I'm no electrician on these cars but, I think I used 10 gauge. I was told 12 or 10 would be fine.

SMFS_Fear_Mii

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2014, 06:52:33 PM »
if anyone needs one i have another one of these i made two, i can send one 30 dollars shipped
1979 Trans Am. 403 auto. but at least its numbers matching?
my build thread http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=60987.0

Aus78Formula

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2014, 04:14:11 AM »
If anyone needs convincing that rewiring the old window switch and motors with relays is the way to go, here's 2 quick videos I just took of mine which was based on the diagram drawn up in the posts above.



« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 04:20:02 AM by Aus78Formula »

Grand73Am

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2014, 09:42:58 PM »
Thanks for the vids. Working great. The one with the engine off interested me most, since with the engine running, my windows work fine, but when the engine is off,  they don't move so good  :)
Steve F.

737driver

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2014, 02:17:44 AM »
I just started doing this conversion on my 79 TA . I was went with a different console. I bought the console from NPD. I wanted a console that would be sorta of a stock look, but I wanted something with cup holders. I modified the the new console to fit the window switch and using the relay set up. Right now I about half way through and might have it wrapped up tomorrow . I'll definite get some pics posted up once it's done.
Jim
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SMFS_Fear_Mii

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2014, 08:33:59 AM »
i like what nocturne did with his console. i plan to do something like that whenever the interior comes around to doing
1979 Trans Am. 403 auto. but at least its numbers matching?
my build thread http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=60987.0

Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2014, 08:33:59 AM »


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737driver

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2014, 11:47:03 PM »
1979 Trans Am- Heritage Brown -W72 (Pontiac 400) -4Speed-WS6
1972 LeMans Convertible
1977 Trans Am
1972 Firebird
1971 Firebird
1970 Firebird
1977 MGB  Roadster Convertible

737driver

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2014, 11:51:59 PM »


Here are some pics of my console. I did the relay modification and I can honestly say it it is a big improvement! I installed a console from NPD and did some modifications for the relay install and power window switch. I like this console because of the cup holders, and it can be easily removed and swapped out with the original console.

Switching over to a window relay is a great improvement and worth the effort!
Jim
1979 Trans Am- Heritage Brown -W72 (Pontiac 400) -4Speed-WS6
1972 LeMans Convertible
1977 Trans Am
1972 Firebird
1971 Firebird
1970 Firebird
1977 MGB  Roadster Convertible

78T/A4SP

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2015, 07:54:04 AM »
Hi, I am just about ready to make this conversion. I see where the 4 relays need power going to the fuse box or the battery and protected by a 30amp fuse. Whether I keep the original relay or not, the switch still receives power from the fuse box as well?
TRANS AM! WHAT'S YOUR PLEASURE!

19transam79

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2015, 05:04:39 PM »
I did this on my 79 and man the windows are way fast.... don't leave the fingers in there as you will draw back a stump....lol :D

rkellerjr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2015, 06:20:58 AM »
Hi, I am just about ready to make this conversion. I see where the 4 relays need power going to the fuse box or the battery and protected by a 30amp fuse. Whether I keep the original relay or not, the switch still receives power from the fuse box as well?

Look at the diagram on page 1, that shows how everything is connected. Power to the relays, ground to the relays, wires from door to relays, switch wires to relays. The switch is then used just to make the connection to power up/down and the relays take on the direct power, not the switch. When the switch takes on all that power they can smoke and burn up from what I understand. The relays provide much better power, which makes the windows work better as 19transam79 has experienced. Mine would hardly move until I installed the relays, now they work real well.

EvilEdOlean

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2015, 11:48:45 AM »
WHAT connector did u use in then switch side to secure the wire.  certainly not the standard connector.
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rkellerjr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2015, 12:37:27 PM »
I didn't alter any original equipment. I simply spliced the wires and put the relays in between the switches and doors.

glenn911

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2016, 01:12:49 PM »
Anyone still putting these together?  Yea, I am that lazy.  I got my windows working by lubing the tracks and rebuilding the switch and would like to do the relay upgrade.
'79 400 4 spd esprit
'78 455 WS6 auto
'74 461 4 spd T/A

rkellerjr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2016, 12:22:05 PM »
Contact SMFS_Fear_Mii as he indicated above he had one but that was some time ago. He may have the time to build you one.

JBG

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2017, 10:49:50 AM »
Great sticky thread!  My PW setup just bit the dust after sitting for a while.  Time for this upgrade.

78TA_In87

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2017, 01:35:24 AM »
Great sticky thread!  My PW setup just bit the dust after sitting for a while.  Time for this upgrade.

If you hadn't gotten the relays already, you might like these on Amazon. All you need for only $14.  Plus the harness so you don't need a connector for each and every wire.  I just ordered mine. (sorry for the huge image, not sure how to make it original size)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HFYE1O/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A33TCMZEAWOM9U
PONTIAC - We (Did) Build EXCITEMENT!!

Grand73Am

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2017, 07:31:33 AM »
Thanks for the tip!
Steve F.

JBG

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2017, 04:35:44 PM »
I wanted to add a note to this outstanding thread: remember to clean those connections at the actual window motor.  I was dealing with slow/sporadic windows (as well as a severe case of electrical gremlins due to some water leaking in while it was in storage & rusted/corroded lots of interior things).  Anyway, I knew the window motors were functional, but after sitting for a bit they were being difficult.  Cleaning the oxidation off of the motor connector(s) really helped out & got it working again.

Remove the door panel & the motor connector is easy to get to.  Unplug it & carefully remove the wire/terminal from the plastic housing (using a tiny flathead screwdriver or needle probe/alignment pin, you have to press the little locking tab on the metal terminal inside the plastic connector & pull wire/terminal out of connector) so you can easily clean the terminal with some 600/800 grit paper.  The terminals on the motor were more difficult to clean... I used a fine diamond file to gently abrade the crud off.  Dielectric grease on terminals & back together.

Just another piece to the power window puzzle.

daveyk86

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2018, 08:12:00 AM »
im going to follow this post, i have no power to my window switches at all and not sure why.,
car is in proper stage of build to take the time to repair it as well over pulling my hair oput which is also runing out

Grand73Am

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2018, 08:27:31 AM »
There's a factory relay under the dash, next to the steering column that often goes bad, which is likely your problem. It has nothing to do with the relays being installed in this thread, since this thread is about a modification of the wiring to use a different kind of relays.

The factory relay is only there to make it so the windows won't work unless you have the ignition key turned on. The windows in one of my 79's didn't work when I got it. So, I bypassed the relay, wiring the power wire to the window switch directly to 12 volt power. That way they work, and without having to turn the key on. The power wire to the switch is either red or pink from what I can remember.
Steve F.

daveyk86

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2018, 10:34:19 AM »
ty GrandAm73

never hurts to do little mods and upgrades here and there, as it sits i cant get my dash lights to work with the headlight switch anymore so i spliced in 2 extra wires that run off igniotion wire andwhen i touch them together the interior dash and shift lights come on (added a couple extra grounds aswell while dash was apart).
Just have to set them up to a switch and they will be good.  ty for the tips i will see what ic an figure out this week or weekend,  im not in a rush and always entertaining new ideas and mods/upgfrades that meet my family man budget.
thanks again
DaveyK

rkellerjr

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2018, 02:20:36 PM »
Great sticky thread!  My PW setup just bit the dust after sitting for a while.  Time for this upgrade.

If you hadn't gotten the relays already, you might like these on Amazon. All you need for only $14.  Plus the harness so you don't need a connector for each and every wire.  I just ordered mine. (sorry for the huge image, not sure how to make it original size)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HFYE1O/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A33TCMZEAWOM9U


I just re-did mine as my windows quit working so along with figuring out the issue I also went through and made my connections plug-N-play so if I ever need to replace anything or remove the interior everything unplugs now (I bought these).  Glad this thread has been helpful.

Dandy77

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2018, 08:11:52 AM »
I add my experience to this window subject. My window motors didn’t work right as well and there fore bought new once. They were even worth, had some kind of kick back.
Anyway, I opened upthe old once, thought the brushes were gone after 40 years of use, not the case, yet ther were full of dirt, crut, etc. and gave them a good cleaning on the inside and new grease for the drive gear. Put them back together, works like a charm.
So before you think of adding a relay setup not saying you shouldn’t, or cleaning the electric contacts on the outside, make sure the internals are in clean and working order.
My two cents.

roadking77

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2018, 08:27:19 AM »
Will add my 2c. x2 what Dandy said. You can check the if the motors work easily with a battery charger or even a battery. Then go from there with trouble shooting. But, it sounds like you may have some other problems. I installed new motors and did the relays as Rich outlined above. Had great success with the driver side, but the pass side didn't work. Found out the relay was bad, and bypassed it and that side works fine with the relay added. I had to redo the connection at the relay under the dash, I believe that was the problem to begin with.
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allenga

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #74 on: February 29, 2020, 04:41:39 PM »
Built my window relay (12/28/12) to add some new life to the electric windows.





Here's the document I used which is the schematic that ta78w72 did originally just in Excel with some things changed slightly, I think, by Lee01, whoever that is.



Installed the relay today (1/6/13).  Thanks Russ (ta78w72)  for giving me a hand on a couple questions I had, you were the savior today! :)  Windows work like a charm now.  Here are pics and a video of the windows working.  Keep in mind that they would NOT roll up without pulling up on the window.










And here's the video of the windows working after 6 years...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8V20aOzqlI


I really want to do this but I suck at electrical.  Sounds like you don't have to touch any wires in the doors themselves.  You just grab power from the fuse block to power the relays?
1977 Trans Am, stock 400 W72, auto.

Wallington

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Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #75 on: February 29, 2020, 04:50:35 PM »
Part of the problem is the really bad earth used through the hinges of the door which can be rusty or greasy. If nothing else you need to run a new ground cable from the car shell to the door shell or window motor body where it mounts.

Old footage from phone 10 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awrW3gPWqr4
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 04:58:19 PM by Wallington »

Re: Electric Window Relay Build
« Reply #75 on: February 29, 2020, 04:50:35 PM »
You can help support TAC!

 



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