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Author Topic: fuel injection vs carb  (Read 1560 times)
yellow1098
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« on: March 26, 2012, 10:33:41 PM »

Ok so i have my really well built 400 with 87 heads and i plan on hopefully stroking it sometime soon. It has right now a to small 650 older holley on it and iv been thinking alittle bit about fuel injection. But i was wondering with my engine and setup and what i plan to do with the motor what would be the pro's and con's of putting a big better carb on the car or going with a lets say easy EFI setup. I like to drive the car alot and was thinking about it. I was wondering if there is newer carbs that come close to the same response and turn key feel of a fuel injected setup? If my carb is dialed in correctly how "good" can i expect it to perform compared to a Injection setup? Is there any new carbs that do the job much better than older ones? like expensive new holleys or something else. Just looking for some feedback from guys who have there carbs running perfect and how well they stack up to fuel injection. thanks guys, hope you know what i mean. It would be nice if you could "test drive" the setups we think about putting on our cars haha.
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1blk1
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 10:36:27 PM »

read somewhere that the worst fuel injection is better than the best carb
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pyeman
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 12:11:53 AM »

My vote would be with a well set up Quadrajet, I have a well buid 400 and always had problems with holleys running rich at idle, So finally broke down and bought a SMI stage 2 Quadrajet from Sean, Its the only carb that i every had that work well with my big cam, it runs like ithad injection on it. and there a lot to say for the sound when those big seconarys open up.

cheers pyeman
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LeighP
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 02:36:47 AM »

read somewhere that the worst fuel injection is better than the best carb

Not strictly true...there is some poorly done EFI out there.

EFI's great advantage isn't in top end...a carb will perfom just as well for ultimate power. EFI's forte is getting the mapping correct across throttle and load settings, making starting and part throttle driving more efficient.

If you're thinking EFI for performance reasons, look into digital systems allowing sequential control and true port injection.
If you just like the simplicity of a self tuning/learning system that basically worked like a carby, but does it all better (and controls timing) then there are a few throttle body style systems out there to look at...the latest one thats a very simple design/package is the MSD Atomic EFI.



Hand held controller for set up.....system is closed loop, self learning.
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Regards,
Leigh

Sydney, Australia
Former Firebirds -
1971 Pontiac Firebird 455
1977 Pontiac Trans Am
1976 Pontiac Trans Am
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 coupe

ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 07:32:34 AM »

It all really depends on what you are going to do with the car. Fuel Injection isn't as simple as putting on a new intake and calling it a day. Typically there are fuel system upgrades, added wiring for various sensors, and modifying your exhaust to accept an O2 sensor.

From a practical stand point, I would say that a well tuned carb will be just as reliable as a well tuned car with FI. I think that it was Hot Rod magazine that had an article last year about comparing a comparable carb vs. FI and it came down to what you want for the car.
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yellow1098
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 12:54:06 PM »

well what i guess i want from the car is everything...probably a dumb answer but i wanna drive it alot...not daily drive but take out every chacne i get when the weathers good and stuff. from going to dinner on a friday night to ripping off 11 second runs at the drag strip. to being able to one day drive it on the power tour.
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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 02:39:52 PM »

If you are looking to do all of those things, that you would probably benefit from doing a FI swap. I would look at some reviews from the one that Leigh mentioned. I haven't heard any real reviews, but would be worth looking into. Also Holley has a system that is similar to the one by MSD.

http://www.customworksproducts.com/fuel-injection-efi.html

Not sure how tech savy you are but another option would be to go with Mega Squirt. It is a DIY fuel injection system that you build yourself and would tune yourself. A lot more dependant on the user to do the tuning, but if you are willing to put in the time and effort, could be worth it. Plus it is much cheaper.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/package-deals-carb-to-efi-c-53_69.html

I would do a lot of homework before making the jump one way or another.

Hope that helps.
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1976 Trans Am LS1, 6 speed, C5 12.8" Brakes, LS1 rear 12" brakes, 17" Aluminum Rims, and much more...SOLD
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Thomasmoto
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2012, 05:15:30 PM »

OK I've got an 850 Holley right now and Ive tuned it til the cows came home. It works very well. I had recently considered going
Efi on it, but ultimately decided it wasn't gonna be worth the expense. I talked to several local speed shop and build shop guys and they have all tried one system or another in the last few years. My car gets 25 mpg's on the hwy. It did last year when I drove it on the Hot Rod Power Tour. I'm sure a lot of that is due to my Richmond, but the car makes big power so it's not due to being de tuned. I may yet do it, but they will have to come way down before I do. I don't even use a choke on my Holley, took it off after speaking to Jim the carb guy many years ago and don't miss it one bit. If it's very cold I may have to start it for 5 to 10 mins before letting it idle to temp, but it's not bad at all.
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1979 W72 WS6 Black on Black
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David Thomas
yellow1098
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 12:32:56 PM »

is that a newer holley 850? i heard a few times that holley had a new better tech line of carbs that got good milage like you were describing and could compete with how efficent fuel injection was. Just wondering because what your talking about thomas i would like use out of my car like that. Also though rye i hear ya and that was my inital thoughts with the use i wanted from my car as well. lots of good info here.
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Thomasmoto
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 02:30:38 PM »

is that a newer holley 850? i heard a few times that holley had a new better tech line of carbs that got good milage like you were describing and could compete with how efficent fuel injection was. Just wondering because what your talking about thomas i would like use out of my car like that. Also though rye i hear ya and that was my inital thoughts with the use i wanted from my car as well. lots of good info here.
No its a swap meet $40.00 carb and I put a $40.00 kit in it. Its even got a few old take off parts from other junked carbs. Ive got a 50 CC accell pump in the front and the rear. The open plenum intake with the added height of the nitrous plate makes it necessary to have a big shot so it won't stumble on accell. I use a Prof Prod Hurricane intake which is pretty close to an old Holley Street Dominator. I will tell you this as well. Its choked pretty bad by the mufflers that are in the side pipes. They make better ones now that flow better, but mine have been on so long and had so much race gas run through it they are basically welded on the header collectors. Ironically enough the added back pressure probably helps the fuel economy. The headers are getting so old i may take them off before too long. I love the way they look and sound is why I've kept them on so long. I'm probably giving up 100 hp to them. I spoke with a guy a few years back that ran the same ones and when he took his off his car dynoed 130 more hp.
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1979 W72 WS6 Black on Black
2011 Corvette Grand Sport
David Thomas
yellow1098
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 10:44:32 AM »

jeeeezzzzz sounds interesting id like to get anything close to that with my car gas milage wise. mines awful haha
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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 11:11:26 AM »

The fuel economy has a lot to do with the Richmond 5 speed with Overdrive gear.
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1976 Trans Am LS1, 6 speed, C5 12.8" Brakes, LS1 rear 12" brakes, 17" Aluminum Rims, and much more...SOLD
My Build: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=24465.0
My Feedback: http://transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=37555.0

LOOKING FOR MY NEXT PROJECT!! PM ME WITH SOMETHING RUST FREE!
indyta1989
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 01:10:33 PM »

I have been assessing the various new EFI systems. So far I am leaning towards the MSD Atomic EFI.  

If you use the MSD Ready to Run distributor the MSD Atomic EFI will also control the timing.

Click into MSD's web site below and check out the various information and the videos.  They also have an EFI Systems Comparison to show some of the differences of the different brands.

http://www.atomicefi.com/


I am looking to try one of these on one of my 1969 Firebirds.  It will probably be a few months before I get to that.
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Gary
1969 Trans Am replica (White / Blue)
1969 Firebird 350 Convertible (Warwick Blue / White)
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