Author Topic: 301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.  (Read 280994 times)

Dreamn2

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2007, 07:01:06 PM »
This would be with the key on, with the two leads connected to the sensor? Sorry, not clear on the procedure
79 Fire Am
76 Fire Am
1972 Formula 400

jjr

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watching O2 sensor voltage
« Reply #81 on: March 24, 2007, 07:02:51 PM »
Well there are several ways to do it.

 I watch it from what the ECM sees. I bought software
for my laptop which included a cable that plugs into
the under dash connector of the car.

 Scan Tools that can handle 1981 (plug and computer different)
can also show it to you.

 Finally, a digital voltmeter can do it.

 Here's a link to a nicely done write-up on O2s and testing it
with a meter.

http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/O2_Sensor.html

 Lemme know how it goes...

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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birth of the 301
« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2007, 06:59:10 PM »
An excerp from the "soon" to be 301 website...

The birth of the 301...

Sometimes it's hard to imagine how things came to be, especially if it's been some 30 years ago.

Before we get started about the birth of the 301, we need to touch on a minor detail...

The engine is actually closer to 302 cubic inch displacement.. Marketing folks of the time did not want to call it a 302 for obvious reasons.

Ok, so why did the 301 Pontiac V-8 come to life?

Two main related reasons really: Fuel Economy and Emissions.

A real oil crisis began late in 1973 when OAPEC members decided that they would no longer ship their oil to the nations that had supported Israel in the Yom Kippur War. This became known as the Arab oil embargo. Incidentally, the U.S. did support Israel in that War and so was included in the embargo.

Around the same time; OPEC members all agreed to raise world oil prices.

These events moved the U.S. Congress to pass the Energy Policy Conservation Act (EPCA), which established corporate average fuel efficiency (CAFE) standards for passenger cars and light trucks sold in the United States. The goal was to double our fuel economy by 1985 and to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

Year Price

1960 .31
1965 .31
1970 .35
1975 .53
1980 1.13
1985 1.19

CAFE Mileage Standards (Passenger Cars)

Cars Avg
1975 no data yet
1976 no data yet
1977 no data yet
1978 18.0 ****
1979 19.0 20.1
1980 20.0 23.1
1981 22.0 24.6

So, not only was the consumer interested in fuel economy ($$$) - the government was forcing the issue on Auto makers. GM's upper management certainly had decisions to make... How long
could they live with the inefficient performance V-8 engines of the era.

As if this wasn't enough to endanger performance, there was another growing problem that had already impacting Auto Makers...

The Clean Air Act (1970). Which gave birth to the famous: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)

This called for 90 percent reductions in automotive emissions. New cars would meet a 0.41 gram per mile HC standard and a 3.4 grams per mile CO standard by 1975 and NOx emissions must be reduced to 0.4 gram per mile by 1976 (Ended up 1977).

All of this was coming together at about the same time and Auto makers were scrambling to comply with all of the new Government regulations for their automobiles.

In 1974 the Auto makers persuaded Congress to push off the HC and CO standards until 1978... Auto makers certainly had their hands full. 1974 was also the adoption of the Energy Policy Conservation Act and CAFE (as mentioned above).

In 1977 Auto makers got Congress to amend it's Clean Air Act, and got
the HC standard delayed until 1980, the CO standard delayed until 1981, and the NOx standard relaxed and delayed until 1981. Tough times for the industry.

So what exactly was the problem? Well, in the case of Pontiac, it's engines were all based on a 1955 design. While these were great designs, they dated before all of the new government regulations. Cars in the 50's and 60's were large, heavy and gas was cheap.

Engineers were faced with quite a problem... How do you make a 20 year old design work in light of all the new regulations imposed by the government, AND by a deadline already stretched too many times.

What they did; is in fact the birth of the Pontiac 301 V-8 Engine.

Before we get into how they did it, we need to acknowledge that those clever folks did in fact do it, and meet each and every standard of the Clean Air Act for the 1981 model year. (computer control)

And they did it with a genuine Pontiac engineered and manufactured V-8 engine.

Ok, so  lets look at how they did it...

Since time was a factor, a completely new design, and the time for tooling up would be nearly out of the question.

So they set out to build a downsized, reduced in weight, Pontiac V-8 on the original tooling that was used for the 350 Pontiac engine. This meant that certain primary dimensions on the new engine would remain the same as the old Pontiac 350.

This included spacing between cylinder bores, cylinder head bolt pattern, and the distance between the crankshaft and cam centerlines.

Ok, so now we've introduced some limitations. Utilizing existing tooling means the dimensions of this engine will be longer and wider than really needed...

The first thought was to really cut down the deck height, then they could use shorter connecting rods. This was thwarted by another project, the new 151 cu. in. 4 cylinder they were setting up at the same time. They decided to use the same pistons and rods in both the 151 and 301, so for all intents and purposes the 151 is half of a 301! (er, ah 302 as previously mentioned). Finally, they were able to bring down the deck height about an inch, and that would help.

Some weight savings were found in decreasing the thickness of the casting walls, bringing them down to either 1/8" or 3/16". This would provide adequate structural strength under "normal" use. Higher output versions were not in their immediate plans.

Another trick was the use of a single plane intake manifold, this casting was lighter than the traditional two plane design.

The crankshaft was put on a diet as well, they eliminated the center counterweights using only one at each end. Although many have been skeptical of this approach, this crank is fully counterweighted. What hasn't been understood is that this crank is balanced on the ends, NOT along it's length! Maybe not traditional, but 24 lbs lighter. Two things to note here:

One, the balancer AND flywheel are specific to this engine and constitute part of the mass for balance (don't use anything else). Two, the whole thing is setup to work up to 4,500 rpm.

 Next, the block's lifter gallery webbing was made lighter than earlier engines.

 As far as heads, the center intake ports were combined or siamesed eliminating some casting walls internally. They also intentionally decreased the size of the port passages in order to get high mixture velocities. This served to eliminate fuel-air distribution problems in the siamesed ports. They flow tested and measured the exhaust gas temps at each cylinder and achieved quite even mixtures at all engine speeds.

Well, how did they do?

Let's see:

Block - 301 (126 lbs) 350 (187lbs)
Heads - 301 ( 94 lbs) 350 (110lbs)
Intake - 301 ( 24 lbs) 350 ( 43lbs)
Crank - 301 ( 42 lbs) 350 ( 66lbs)

Not bad at all.

So the original engine debuted in the 1977 models, it had  8.2-1 compression, a mild cam, and was equipped with a 200 cfm Rochester DualJet. This equated to 135 horsepower at 4,000 rpm. It was intended for intermediate-sized conservative passenger cars. It's niche was that of a very smooth, economical engine. The mileage was even better than hoped. Pontiac engineers had a winner.

Then... management decided to use it in heaver sedans and wagons, and a 150 horse 4 bbl version was developed. The Pontiac 301 had begun replacing the less efficient larger Pontiac 350's and 400's. It was all about fuel economy. The 301 would  eventually be used by all of the GM divisions except for Cadillac.

The Pontiac 455 ended in 1976, the 350 in 1977, the 400 in 1978 (stockpiled 400s were used in 1979),

all due to tightening government regulation and unavoidable business necessity. This left the amazing Pontiac 301, the last of the tribe.

So - that's how it all started, the 301 was born of solid Pontiac heritage and outstanding engineering to meet and exceed the needs of the day. So, (in my mind) this engine should definitely occupy an honorable place in Pontiac history.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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Turbos take the spotlight
« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2007, 07:45:26 PM »
If you folks missed this...









 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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domain
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2007, 10:22:55 PM »
Well folks, I had a big training project at work take up tons
of coding time.

 That's done now and I'm back on the job.

 The web site has been up and a few sly folks have figured
out the domain from other postings.

 The meat of the thing is engine detail, that's not up yet.

 A very basic frame is though...

 A fancy, slick interface won't be my first concern.

 But you can note the domain and url:

http://www.301garage.com/

 Also, I'd like to thank the hundreds of folks who have
sent me supportive notes on this project.

 So, stay tuned.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

domain
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2007, 10:22:55 PM »

JKbride

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2007, 07:26:53 AM »
Joe:

Just check out your site...looking good :)

Are you planning a message forum?
Big John
1980 Indy TA
1992 TA Convertible (Jamaica Yellow)

jjr

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« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2007, 08:13:27 AM »
Quote
Are you planning a message forum?


 Not to start with.

 If the demand seems to suggest it, I will.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

Kyledyr

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2007, 06:37:51 PM »
man.....i really wish something like that had existed in june. i was all lined up to buy a legit 1980 Pace Car in great shape for 5k, only reason I didn't pick it up was I was too afraid no one would be able to work on it and I'd have no idea about certain things.  dang.  :(

so instead i got a bucket o bolts 81 with a chevy engine, lol
Kyle H.
1981 Trans Am 305 WS6 4-Speed
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2412632
"It's such a thrill when your radials squeal"


301T Steve

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« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2007, 11:49:59 AM »
Joe, in your engine pic on your 301 site, I can't tell if there is an actual PCV valve because the upper radiator hose is obstructing the view.  My 81 does have the PCV fliter going into the air cleaner, but no valve that fits into the grommet, just that metal pipe.  As I understand, not having a valve would be unusual.  Should there be one?

Steve

Joker (§ir£Ðragon)

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2007, 11:59:32 AM »
Quote from: "301T Steve"
Joe, in your engine pic on your 301 site, I can't tell if there is an actual PCV valve because the upper radiator hose is obstructing the view.  My 81 does have the PCV fliter going into the air cleaner, but no valve that fits into the grommet, just that metal pipe.  As I understand, not having a valve would be unusual.  Should there be one?

Steve


That wouldn't be the PCV. That's a breather. The PCV is in the valley pan just below the upper rad. hose and connects to a large vac. line.
Larry


jjr

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PCV
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2007, 06:19:40 PM »
There should be one yes.

 Mister Picture please...

 Here's an earlier picture from the same project,
it's easy to see the valve in this one:



 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

301T Steve

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2007, 06:13:25 AM »
So does the PCV fit into that grommet from above, or does it fit into the grommet from below (within the valve cover)?  I don't see the valve in that picture, just the grommet.

Thanks Joe and Sir Dragon for your help.  It's strange how for a newbie that the littlest thing can throw you for a while.

Steve

301T Steve

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2007, 06:17:29 AM »
Also, Joe, I picked up that carb rebuild tool from NAPA that you recommend, as well as ordered the carb work stand and a rebuild kit.  Once I put in my rebuilt radiator, I'll pull off the carb and get to work.  Is there anything else I need to rebuild the carb?

Steve

jjr

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PCV
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2007, 08:44:23 AM »
Between the heads and below the intake is a nearly flat surface.
This is called the valley pan. In the valley pan is a opening
near the upper hose fitting.

 In the opening goes a rubber grommet, in the grommet goes
the pcv valve (has tannish color). The PCV looks like a "L"
shape with a metal end. In the picture the PCV arrow points
to the valve installed into the grommet.

 The breather arrow is pointing to just a grommet where the
pipe to the air cleaner goes.

 It's a hard thing to see cause the pcv is down low, lower than
most engines. I'll see if I got another file pic that helps...



 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

301T Steve

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2007, 10:47:42 AM »
OK, I get it now.  The breather hose and PCV are entirely separate.  I missed the PCV hidden behind the upper hose.

Thanks Joe and Sir Dragon,
Steve

301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2007, 10:47:42 AM »



jjr

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Breather
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2007, 11:53:47 AM »
Good to hear...

 Here's the breather installed on a '81 motor (different motor)



 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

301T Steve

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« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2007, 12:14:09 PM »
Well sure enough I found the PCV valve last night buried under all the hoses.  It is caked in grease.  I'll replace it when I rebuild the carb.  

BTW, Joe, before I dig into the carb, the problem is that the cold start is a little hard, and it idles at 900 RPM, (and I think the gaskets are probably dry rotting after sitting for 7 years).  I'd appreciate your thoughts on the cold hard start and the idle at 900RPM after warmup.

Steve

jjr

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cold start and 900 rpm idle
« Reply #97 on: April 14, 2007, 09:08:47 AM »
Cold start...  It seems that the turbo setup lends itself to making
the cold start a little harder. But what I usually find is that
the choke mechanism is gummed up, the electrical connection
broken/not connected (and so it's adjusted wide open) or some
good sized vacuum leaks.

 Vacuum leaks... On my own cars I have found two vacuum
leak common sources. 1) the thick one between the manifold
and the bottom of turbo assembly 2) the intake to head
manifold gaskets. The turbo engine compartment is a very
hot place and so it would seem things (gaskets) don't survive
as long as they do on other motors.

 And just the other day I found a wastegate actuator that was
a straight leak right through it. That I found while preparing
a web page on testing the actuator.

 Idle speed... on the '81 car the computer runs the idle through
a little motor assembly called the Idle Speed Control (ISC).
Quite often this assembly is frozen dead. The manual has
a simple procedure for checking it's function. I will have a
version of the test on my site someday as well. Absent
fancy tests one can just watch it and see if it moves.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

301T Steve

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« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2007, 06:40:05 AM »
Which manual discusses the idle control mechanism? Chilton's ? Or Ruggles or Roe's book?

That's interesting about the leaks below the air horn.  I think it was either Roe or Ruggles that suggested not dismantling below there for the electronic controlled Qjets because only 1 in 50 (according to the book)have problems with those gaskets.

Steve

jjr

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thoughts
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2007, 09:10:04 AM »
Q. Which manual discusses the idle control mechanism?

A. Pontiac Shop manual

That's interesting about the leaks below the air horn.
...because only 1 in 50 (according to the book)have problems with those gaskets.

 For a Non-Turbo engine yes.

 The Turbo and it's plenum is mounted/supported at 3 points. The center
 and perhaps more load bearing is the plenum to intake. The driver side
 is supported by a bracket which ancors to the exhaust manifold. The
 passenger side also has a bracket from the intake manifold to the turbine housing.

 Heat and the stress of the exhaust pipe assembly are likely culprits to
putting extra stress on these gaskets.

 Over the life of one of these turbo cars, it's nearly certain that the
CHRA (turbo) has been replaced. If they didn't remove the whole
turbo/plenum assembly then getting the CHRA out gave even
 more stress to that plenum/intake gasket.

 I'm sharing what I find on my own cars, so other owners have some info
to consider when hunting down their own problems. Testing for leaks isn't
hard, and perhaps my experience can help in where to check for leaks.

 When I first got my '81 Turbo SE it ran terrible. I could barely get it
off the trailer and into the shop...

 Today it purrs. One of the key items that was on the TLC list was intake
gaskets.

 My '80 Pace also responded to a plenum to intake gasket replacement.

 A spare engine I have shows signs that it's previous owner was looking
for a leak (had sealer smeared all over). It's gaskets are pretty tired
looking, but I haven't confirmed that one as yet.

 So, as you asked... These are my thoughts
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

JACK_BURTON55

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« Reply #100 on: April 16, 2007, 05:31:10 PM »
jjr i cannot wait for your site to get going, it will be a great read!!! :D

jjr

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« Reply #101 on: April 16, 2007, 05:49:17 PM »
Quote
i cannot wait for your site to get going, it will be a great read!!!


 You did see it's up and being added to as I can right?

http://www.301garage.com

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

JACK_BURTON55

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« Reply #102 on: April 17, 2007, 01:25:41 PM »
yes, i pointed that out a while back and i belive you called me savvy or something lmao im just talking about when you get into the meat of the engine and go into great detail as you do in many of your posts 8)

jjr

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detail
« Reply #103 on: April 17, 2007, 02:24:19 PM »
Quote
and go into great detail as you do in many of your posts


 Why thank you! That's the engineer in me, I gotta know how it
works in order to fix it.

 Over the years, I kept finding gaps between the manuals and
application. As it turns out that's just the GM way apparently.

 I have gathered a small library of GM's various publications, and
found small groupings of pertinent info all over the place. This is
part of what I want to tie together.

 In addition to my 5 301 powered Trans Ams I have 8 301 parts
engines and a storage shed or two of parts. As I have repaired
my cars and sorted through the sea of parts and manuals I've
figured out a thing or two. That is where I'm going with the
site.

 I'm happy to be able to help my fellow 301 owners.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

JACK_BURTON55

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« Reply #104 on: April 17, 2007, 04:12:22 PM »
FYI i dont have a 301 but i enjoy the reading just as much! woot

77 se ta

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« Reply #105 on: April 17, 2007, 04:55:43 PM »
I just want my original 79 301 TA back.... not gonna happen... but I can always dream...

jjr

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about actuators
« Reply #106 on: April 19, 2007, 10:52:24 AM »
As I document various aspects of the 301 engine, I will be posting
various discoveries.

 Turbo boost wastegate actuators.

 In testing a few examples I have found one that didn't work AND
was leaking in all directions (would be a vacuum leak). Another's diaphragm tested intact but would not move.

 The actuator has a part number for '80 and another for '81 but
I've never found any imprint, nor have a found any difference.
 All have 2 ports and only on the '80 is the second port used.

 I have not found any info on the adjustable actuator. The only
reference so far is in the '80 service manual, it mentions crimping
the adjustment barrel after the desired movement is achieved.



 This and more will be continued at:

http://www.301garage.com/Turbo/Actuator.htm

  Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

81Nascar2

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« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2007, 12:34:50 PM »
Speaking of 301T cars did any of you catch that article in the April issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines on the 80 Pace car?  Could't tell if they really liked it or not.
81 Turbo Trans Am (Nascar)Pacecar, modded.
78 Y88 400 auto. sold
81 Trans Am 305 4sp
71 Camaro
70 Camaro 28,000 miles
88 Trans Am GTA Procharged.

"Jesus is my airbag"

jjr

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'80 Pace Car in Hemmings
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2007, 01:15:51 PM »
I thought they (the editors) were sorta neutral.

 The owner seemed to like it though, and that's all
that counts... <grin>

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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1980 Turbo Carb power circuit
« Reply #109 on: April 22, 2007, 11:51:51 AM »
The Carburetor Power Circuit for the 1980 301 Turbo.
by Joe Richter

This is probably one of the most misunderstood aspects of
this application. Note: This does NOT apply to the 1981 301T setup.

In a non-turbo charged engine the power circuit functions with
respect to the engine's changing vacuum and the spring pressure
of the power piston.

In the turbo-charged engine this doesn't always work the way we need
it to. Part throttle and steady cruise would be ok, but...

The problem occurs as engine load increases and fuel enrichment is
necessary.. at this point the intake manifold is being pressurized by the
turbo charger. With the intake pressurized, there is still enough vacuum to
hold the power piston down in the normally lean position. Not really what you want.

The fix is to reroute the vacuum channel for the power piston away from the manifold vacuum that's just below the carb.



So a special carb, number 17080274, was designed with it's power piston
channel routed to an external port. That port was connected to a special
valve/switch which goes by two different names: "Turbocharger Vacuum
Bleed Valve" or "Power Enrichment Vacuum Regulator".


 
The special valve reduces the vacuum to zero as engine load increases
which allows the power piston's spring to push the piston up. The piston
pulls the metering rods up and so additional fuel feeds the engine load.



This special one-year-only setup in it's entirety is necessary to get
a 1980 301 Turbo engine to run properly. There are no known (to me)
ways around it, nor are there any other components that will substitute.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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Turbo Charger Maint
« Reply #110 on: April 25, 2007, 10:49:44 AM »
Turbo Charger Maintenance

 by Joe Richter

 By far and wide the most significant aspect of turbo
maintenance is oil. The oil cools AND lubricates the
turbo. In the case of the Pontiac 301 the turbo shares
it's oil supply with the engine which brings with it
both good and bad points.

 From the factory all turbo cars carried a sticker
in the engine compartment, somewhat insistant that the
engine oil be changed at least every 3,000 miles.

 While the advice is certainly sound, why is it so
important... The answer is heat.

 The AiResearch T03 used on the Pontiac spins at about
130,000 rpm and at that speed any lubrication problem
would become catastrophic in short order.

 So how much oil flows through the turbo then?

 Anywhere from 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon per minute.

 An oil pump for a 301T should be 60 psi, ensuring a
good flow through the turbo at all times.

 I never realized why before, but if you look at the
oil feed pipe and then the drain tube for the turbo
they are very differently sized.

 The exiting oil can and often does pick up aeration
or in simpler terms, air gets whipped into the oil from the
compressor section and so foams a bit. This is the reason
for the much larger drain pipe.

 But even if I change(ed) my oil, folks still say they have
turbo failures.

 Again, the answer is heat. Typically a turbocharger adds
an additional 80 degrees F to the oil as it flows through.

 In 1980 and 1981 no one had the option of synthetic oils and
their high heat capabilities. They also, for the most part,
hadn't driven turbo charged automobiles before.

 As I said; the turbo is both lubricated AND cooled by the flow
of oil through it. So, what happens when we race home on a friday
night smug with our abilities and time savings from careening
down the freeway. Heat... that turbo is super hot and is
depending on the engine to furnish it with a flow of oil to
stay cool. Then what happens... we pull in the drive way and
turn the key off. Stoping all oil flow through a very hot
turbo.

 Sure the engine's hot, but it's no longer running. The turbo
is real, real hot and now has no cooling mechanism or oil flow.
 No oil flow and the turbo is still spinning down from 130,000 rpm.
 The high heat ends up cooking the conventional oil,  then it cokes
and blocks the proper flow of oil through the turbo.



 Back in the day - there was an informal, unoffical, procedure amongst
the turbo enlightened. Here goes... pull into driveway, select
park and then wait a no-kidding 60 complete seconds before turning
off your turbo 301. The thinking (which makes sense) is to allow
a cooldown and flushing of the turbo with cooler oil.

 Some folks have even gone so far as to add a oil accumulator to the
setup. This unit provides oil flow even with the engine off. The
turbo gets a nice realatively cool flush and oil coking is all but
eliminated. Plus turbo oil flow can be provided at engine startup as
well.

 A properly cared for turbo should last the life of the engine.

 All it asks for is lots of clean oil and clean air.

 Another area that's often overlooked is the PCV valve and
crankcase breathers. If there isn't pressure relief for the
crankcase, blowby gases can maintain positive pressure in
the crankcase. That would hinder the normal return of oil
from the turbo and so diminish it's lubrication.

 I'll be adding to this discussion as I pull together the rest of
my research and notes, but for now...be kind to your turbo,
give it some clean oil and a 1 minute cooldown.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

Big Mo

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« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2007, 07:27:41 PM »
Joe,
In your opinion is the 1 minute cool down still necessary if running a synthetic oil such as Mobil 1?  Also what weight oil do you recommend?  The factory spec'd, or something else.  Once my Formula is up and running again, this is all it will receive.  I work for an oil distributor, and get my goodies at cost.  This helps make a Mobil 1 oil change every 3K miles an option that wont drain your bank account.
Formerly known as 1RedWS6
1977 SE TA
1980 Turbo Formula

Frisco, Texas

jjr

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1 minute cool down
« Reply #112 on: April 25, 2007, 08:41:51 PM »
I don't have the data on Mobil One's temperature characteristics.

 I think I need more info before I eliminate my cool downs.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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1980 301T Performance improvements
« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2007, 10:04:40 AM »
Increasing 1980 301T Performance.

 by Joe Richter

 Note: This will NOT apply to a 1981 301T

 Even in the early 80's folks wanted their Turbo cars to do better than
when new. A number of automotive writers imparted their wisdoms, all
sounding fairly similar. Here is basically what they usually said.

 * Remove all air pollution related equipment. Especially the converter.

   In one article I read the author stated that the original converter
  was capable of only 125 cfm flow!

 * Use Turbo mufflers.

 * Shift kit in the Transmission.

 * Distributor kit. (I assume greater advance sooner).

 * Performance kit in carburetor.

 * 1.65 ratio rocker arms.

 * Adjust boost up to 9 psi

 * Switch to either 3.23 or 3.42 gearing

  That's it... no part numbers or target values.

 But wait, I have saved the best for last.

 One of the best ways to get more horsepower is through the use of Nitrous.

 This is how they got the Bandit's Trans Am to burn rubber in Smokey II.

 It was a simple system. They added their injector right where the turbo
housing meets the intake manifold and put the tank in the trunk. The angle of the trunk was the perfect for the bottle.

 The jetting was set for 10 lbs of nitrous to flow in 120 seconds.

 They also added a water injection system claiming it kept the motor from knocking  and so stayed in full timing advance. They kept the detonation sensor, but recurved the distributor.

 The company that put all this together was: Marvin Miller Nitrous Oxides Systems in Whittier, CA. At the time (1980) they marketed a "Bandit" system for the 301 Turbo Trans Am. While I don't know if it's still available, the company does comes up in an Internet search. Perhaps they're still in business.

 This discussion is intended as a starting point for adding performance, obviously some of those changes are impractical and depending on the laws where you live illegal.

 Since this and my 301 website are a work in progress, additional info will be added as I wade through more material. If only I didn't have to waste so much time at my day job... <grin>

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

jjr

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Turbo camshaft selection
« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2007, 11:45:33 PM »
Turbo charged engine camshaft considerations.

 by Joe Richter

 Camshaft selection is a very complicated decision.

 The difference in design of the turbo cam is important.

 Too much valve overlap can actually reduce turbo output
because exhaust gases would be cooled down. Cooler exhaust
gases would actually slow the turbine wheel, which in turn
slows down the compressor... and that's less boost.

 Additionally, if the overlap is excessive, there is a
risk of blowing the air/fuel mix straight through the
combustion chamber into the exhaust manifold. That could
explode intermittently or burn continuously. The burning
would most likely spike the turbine inlet temp to as much
as 2000 degrees F. Temps that high will shorten the life
of the turbo and probably the exhaust valves as well.

 The temptation most folks would have is to replace their
cam with say the W72 301 Performance cam, lets compare the
two cams and see what we have...

-------------------------------

 1980 Factory Turbo 301 cam
 
 Intake  open   16  degrees BTC
        close   54  degrees ABC
     duration  250  degrees

 Exhaust open   48  degrees BBC
        close   22  degrees ATC
     duration  250  degrees

 Valve open overlap 38 degrees

 ------------------------------

 1980 Factory Non-Turbo 301 W72 "Performance" cam
 
 Intake  open   17  degrees BTC
        close   77  degrees ABC
     duration  274  degrees

 Exhaust open   52  degrees BBC
        close   42  degrees ATC
     duration  274  degrees

 Valve open overlap 59 degrees

-------------------------------

 As you can see, this cam would actually be a mistake, the
valve overlaps are increased and so we'd see less performance
not more.

 So what can we do? Well, traditional hotrod tweaks do not
always apply to the Turbo 301. Personally, I nearly always
stay stock. But, I've read many times owners using products
from Isky cams with great success and satisfaction. Isky,
as well as others probably, have specific turbo grinds that
are overlap friendly.

http://www.iskycams.com/timingchart.php?product_number=901-TKA

 So when it comes time to replace your cam, make sure you
get a cam designed for a turbo charged engine... you and your
turbo will be much happier for it.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

Milly

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301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2007, 09:26:09 PM »
Regarding the use of a "NOS" system on a turbo T/A, one benefit that some people over look is the cooling effect the Nitrous Oxide has on the air charge being forced into the engine. Any time air is compressed into an engine, the air temp raises. The NO has a great cooling effect and makes the air charge that much more effective. Even adding a small Nitrous charge in the air intake of a turbocharger of supercharger can add consistency to the 1/4 mile times of these cars, especially when there isn't ample time to cool down. Of course care must be taken when implimenting a "NOS" system into a turbo or supercharger set up so that the compression ratio isn't raised so high that it causes damage to the engine.
John
1981 Trans Am (sold)
1996 Firebird (sold)
2001 Aztek AWD
2004 GTO

jjr

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1980 301T hose hookups
« Reply #116 on: April 29, 2007, 12:05:35 PM »
1980 301T Carb hoses

 by Joe Richter

 Have you ever wanted to make sure you've got all your
hoses hooked up correctly?. Are their some that are capped
off and you can't figure out where they "should" go?
 Or have you replaced old dried out ones that maybe leaked
and don't recall where it went?.

 Chances are most Turbo owners have been there.

 No problem you'd say, The vacuum diagram is on the radiator
support.



 Right... all the hoses are on there alright. Except, you
can't tell which carb port is which on the sticker. Hmmm...

 I'll get out my service manual, certainly that'll
detail the carb ports...



 Better, but I still can't tell exactly. And which port
goes where on that PEVR thingy.

PEVR = Power Enrichment Vacuum Regulator

 So here you are, you've looked at the right info and
still are lost.

 That was me too at one time, and I understand. The info
to figure it out is in fact in the manual, just not so
you'd actually realize it.  

 So let me show you where they go.





 That's great Joe, and what about the PEVR thingy.



 Now that's a lot better, isn't it...

 And as I mentioned in a previous article, a 1980 Turbo will
not run right unless it's hooked up properly.

 So next sunny afternoon, take a copy of these and go check
your setup. Better yet, treat your machine to some nice
fresh, new rubber! Remember, it gets pretty hot in there
and rubber doesn't last forever.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

blue81ta

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« Reply #117 on: April 29, 2007, 12:52:51 PM »
Joe
A question about oil. Since the article in HPP last year, about the additives being removed from oil since 2004 and the possible damage to flat tappet cams, I'm not sure which way to go. I've read the article, visited web sites, and before the crash there was a thread on the subject. I got a lot of info but there are a lot of conflicting opinions. Any info or advice about oil and/or additives would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Keith
1981 Trans Am....My safe haven from all of life's bs
2001 Firebird

jjr

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Oil
« Reply #118 on: April 29, 2007, 10:26:39 PM »
Info I do not have. (yet)

 Advice, well... will an opinion do?

 I have read probably the same things you have and come to
no definitive conclusion as yet.

 But here's how I look at it. The primary function of an oil is to
keep metal parts from touching and wearing. It does this by
remaining as a film between two metal surfaces.

 Everything else is all about additive packages.

 We change oil because of the accumulation of suspended
"contaminates" and the depletion of the additives.

 So I'm thinking that if we have clean, fresh oil with whatever
technology that's recent - we have the best we can do.

 Joe R
1979 10th Aniv 400/4spd
1980 Black SE 301NA
1980 Indy Turbo Pace 301T
1981 Turbo 301T
1981 Black SE 301T
1981 Daytona Pace 301T
www.301garage.com/forum/

301T Steve

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« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2007, 06:24:10 AM »
Carb help needed!!!

The Idle Speed Control has been removed from my '81 prior to my buying it.  I can't locate the wire to it either.  While I can set the low end RPM with the idle speed screw, what about the high end RPM to accomodate for AC?  Should I buy a rebuilt electric  carb or try to replace just the ISC.  The throttle kicker bracket is there, hanging by just one screw.  The bracket has a large hole in it where the ISC should fit.  There is a single wire loose with a blue connector that has been tied to the spark plug wires.  Not sure if that's the right one.  Anyway, should I buy a rebuilt electric carb  (like off ebay) or try to find an ISC somewhere?

Thanks
Steve

301 Pontiac Web site and Q & A Subthread.
« Reply #119 on: April 30, 2007, 06:24:10 AM »
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