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Author Topic: Pontiac DOHC and SOHC engines?  (Read 2929 times)
ryeguy2006a
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« on: December 29, 2009, 07:09:17 PM »

I was reading the new issue of Performance Pontiac and they had an article about these engines that were built in the 60's. Are they experimental engines or were there a few of them produced? If so has anyone put one in a Pontiac?

http://www.wallaceracing.com/303-mystery-engine-1.html

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ohc-v8-cover.html

These were the only thing that I could find about the engines. I also bought the March 1968 issue of Hot Rod off of ebay just so I could read more about them.

If anyone knows anything about them I would be curious to know. Or if they have one I would be interested in buying it. Razz

Ryan
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Rick
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 08:46:03 PM »

I'm pretty sure no SOHC or DOHC V8 engines made it into production.  I think they were killed by expense considerations.  It was cheaper to make HP through compression and CID than it was by going higher in the RPM band.

The 6 cylinder 230 and 250 CID OHC engines were capable of some pretty good performance.  I had one in my 67 Firebird Sprint, but it came with a 2 speed Poweglide from the factory.  I dug up NOS parts to convert it to a 4 speed manual, and that thing would get up and go.  Back in the day Car & Driver magazine modified one to rev up to 10,000 RPM and stuck it in a Ferrari, and then made a stab at a land speed record at the Bonneville Salt Flats.  Ultimately, manufacturing costs caused GM to drop it in favor of using the Chevy 250 CID L6 across all of their economy car lines.
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critter
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 09:39:27 PM »

The only Dual OHC Pontiac motor that I know of in a car is the one that was presented to Mac MacKeller when he retired from GM and is still in his Grand Prix.
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2009, 12:13:23 AM »

The only Dual OHC Pontiac motor that I know of in a car is the one that was presented to Mac MacKeller when he retired from GM and is still in his Grand Prix.





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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2009, 01:07:12 PM »

Does anyone know of anyone trying to reproduce these?
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2009, 09:16:52 PM »

Does anyone know of anyone trying to reproduce these?

I hear of rumors popping up every decade or so. The expensive of the parts and conversion usually stops anyone before they get started.
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John
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2009, 06:32:58 AM »

Well the artical clearly states that these engines never made production, Mac McKelar has the only running SOHC, it was an engineering piece that was given to him when he retired from GM, I saw the car at the POCI convention back in the mid 90's when "Mac" brought it to the show.
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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2009, 10:13:34 AM »

Well I think that that would be an awesome conversion for someone to do. Are there any heads that have a close bolt pattern to the Pontiac block? I thought I read somewhere that the Ford Modular heads were a close match, but that is just what I read on the internet.
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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2009, 10:52:12 AM »

I found another article on the SOHC 421. Pretty cool.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=ZLP8kKL4w2kC&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=421+over-head-cam&source=bl&ots=VQBt_opxjL&sig=RFAX3dcDzF9cf96xDuDs_uXxn6s&hl=fr&ei=R2V7SuL8II_8tgfR3P2AAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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Mr. P-Body
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2009, 11:14:38 AM »



   This one comes under a couple of "headings". First, the Pontiac OHC 427 was "still-born". It made outrageous amounts of HP on a dyno, and was promptly "axed".  That's the engine that appears in Hot Rod.

   The M/T "hemis" and OHC engines were a bit different.  Mickey Thompson's company actually made the heads, cams and drive pieces for the cams, not Pontiac.  They were a "flash in the pan" as far as competition was concerned. NHRA outlawed them immediately (not "production").  NASCAR never even LOOKED at them...

   As for building one today, why? GM and the aftermarket "world" have proven beyond doubt, pushrod engines are every bit as capable as OHC engines. The LS series is the example. The Ford and Mope OHC engines need a blower to make anywhere NEAR the power LSx makes. Even the modern Mope "Hemi" (in name only, as the chambers are NOT hemispherical) needs a blower to keep pace.

   I suppose if one was to win the lottery and WANT to create the monster, go for it!  Just be prepared to get beat by a more conventional approach.

   One of the lessons "learned" by Ford with the SOHC 427 was the expense doesn't justify the results. And that's dealing with an engine that totally dominated every form of racing it was "legal" in for the short period parts were available. They abandoned it because was just too expensive to produce and maintain. 

   Fun to discuss, though... (:-

Jim
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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2009, 03:24:55 PM »

Thanks for the good info. I was just thinking outside the box again. Always leads to something expensive. I just thought that if they were available, it would be cool to have a SOHC Trans Am.  Cool

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firebirdparts
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2010, 04:58:23 AM »

I'm not sure about the Pontiac's demise, but the Ford was the cause of an exotic engine ban in NASCAR.  The purpose of this ban, as with many of them in motorsports, was to keep the costs down.  

I believe Ford would have homologated it in street cars and used it if they could have.  Whether these cars would have amounted to anything in quantity is something we'll never know.  If they had, it's possible Pontiac would have done the same thing.

If somebody wants to make one, Id' say the option is there as a project for someone wanting to practice on metalworking skills (for free), not somebody who won the lottery.  People can make stuff.  Pick up some 10-year-old kid's books from the 1890's, like the 'boy's book of model boats' or something like that.  They used to put Atlas lathes in the Sears Christmas catalog.

You could even buy cams for a different car and make your heads to fit them.  If you wanted to.  I have to admit flathead heads are easier to make in the home shop. Laughing
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Joe Bays
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2010, 08:09:06 AM »

True, Jim....but from a gearhead point of view, aren't the cammers lovely eye candy?  Very Happy Cool Laughing
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Regards,
Leigh

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ryeguy2006a
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2010, 10:28:32 AM »

I think that they are a work of art. Imagine opening your hood at a car show with this under your hood.  Razz

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Rick
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2010, 06:30:31 PM »

For my part, a standard Pontiac L-6 OHC Sprint engine is a beautiful thing... 6 cylinders, 4 barrels, and dual exhasts... Smile
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firebirdparts
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2010, 01:31:46 PM »

You know I actually have one in my house, on an engine stand?  It's just a conversation piece.  1966 sprint manual trans model.
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Rick
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2010, 07:22:52 PM »

You know I actually have one in my house, on an engine stand?  It's just a conversation piece.  1966 sprint manual trans model.

Too cool!  I'm assuming it's a 230 CID, no?
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firebirdparts
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2010, 12:09:52 AM »

That's right.
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