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Author Topic: Single stage vs. two-stage paint?  (Read 6157 times)
Birdman
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Birdman7592
« on: September 14, 2009, 02:40:16 PM »

I'm about to try and paint my first car, my brother's 89 Formula. I paid $500 for the car, so it isn't a show car.

I'd like to get it straight, primer it, block it, and spray some color on it.

It is his daily driver and he drives it to high school and all over the place. I'm sure it is going to get beat and dinged and smacked around and all, I know my high school car took a beating. He takes care of it, but you know how things go in high school.

Should we spray a single stage paint on the car, or go for a two-stage?

Pros and Cons?
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phishfud
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 03:40:06 PM »

HArd to give info on painting, simply because there is so much to it, and anyone who has painted a car will have their own thoughts on method and materials. It really depends on if you plan on going to bare metal on the whole car. Because it's his DD, it's probably not necessary, but you will have a ton of sanding to do to get the primer to stick. I am a big fan of epoxy primer as a base, whether over bare or old paint. It sticks to anything and seals well. Follow that with a 2K high build for your blocking. Spray 2 coats, let flash in between, spray a giude coat, and sand with 180(on a block). Fix any high/low spots, then 2 more coats. By now you could get away with using 320, checking/fixing high/low spots again, which there should be very few of by now. Finally 2 more coats. Again, different folks say different things here. You can choose to use a sealer before your color, which is a good idea if old paint is underneath it all. Sand your last coat of 2K with 320 again, then 1-2 coats of sealer (which is just reduced epoxy), and follow the tech sheets for you color in regards to sanding. Usually it's 400-600 wet. Now you are ready for color. Single is less work, yet not as forgiving for dirt/bugs. I prefer a base/clear, since tiny dust nibs/bugs in the clear can be sanded out before buffing. Granted, you can sand em out of SS, but you are sanding away color. I'm just not a fan of SS, but for your application, it would be fine. The bad part of doing a 3rd gen is the front and rear bumpers will need a flex additive, and are harder to sand without damaging them. I used PPG Omni on my TA and liked it. It was fairly cheap and turned out real nice. I'd stay away from the pre-mixed Dupli-Color though. I've heard it's way thin and doesn't cover real well. I'm sure others will chime in here, and maybe have an easier/better method for you. This is just how I've done it, but this was on a resto that went to bare metal. Hope it helps a little.
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takid455
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2009, 06:28:36 AM »

I'd single stage (SS) it of you won;t care too much about the finish. SS will look good and with the hardener, be somewhat chip resistant. the problem areas will be the non metal areas as the flex and hardener will counter each other and the paint may not dry properly. If you don't add the flex, it will crack and look uglier than it already is being a turd gen. BC/CC isn't too much more if stay away from reds or fancy colors. Eastwood and SEM have mixes for hot rod black or a suede finish  that is not a primer so it will seal. Look into those.
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Birdman
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Birdman7592
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 06:32:32 AM »

The car is red.  Laughing

And easy on the turd gen comments, these are the cars of my childhood.  Laughing
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phishfud
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 06:45:55 AM »

Red will cost a bit more. When doing a color like a red, it's best if you paint the whole car at the same time, otherwise you risk having panels look a slightly different shade. You can still paint parts off the car (like the nose, rear bumper, mirrors), but just do them at the same time as the rest of the car. If it was black or an easy solid, you could do each part separate and have everything match, no matter how far apart timewise you painted each one. Lots of variables when doing reds, oranges and the like.
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78 TA, 400 4spd
72 Chevelle, 454, 4spd(project)
70 Camaro(major project)
72 Demon(not bad project)
72 Dart (under construction project)
.....ain't toys fun???
Birdman
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Birdman7592
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 07:00:28 AM »

Yeah, we plan on doing it all at once. Wish the car was white, we'd get out a lot cheaper.  Laughing
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taman76
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 08:38:18 AM »

Not a show car?  Single stage should be fine. 
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Aaron91RS
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 12:16:38 PM »

two stage paint will always look shinier.
By the time you're ready to spray clear you've already done the hard work so see no point in in single stage.
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TreySmith
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 05:46:32 PM »

Single stage will be fine, after you cut and buff you really won't notice that much of a difference.


Here are some single stage jobs we have done, my car included.






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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 05:43:45 PM »

go BC/CC it will last longer as a good clear has more uv protection than SS paint.  if u live in a sunny area and plan to drive it alot a good BC/CC will be the way to go.
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JLeeAU
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 07:34:46 AM »

I also had a curious question concerning paint.  How well would it work if you used single stage paint then clear coated over it, just like doing bc/cc but your base coat is single stage paint.  Spray as many round of single stage (base coat) as you wanted then spray clear coat just like doing a bc/cc job.  Would it make the paint hold up better in the long run? 
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kboehringer
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 05:42:09 PM »

I'd stay away from the pre-mixed Dupli-Color though. I've heard it's way thin and doesn't cover real well. I'm sure others will chime in here..................

DITTO ... DITTO ... DITTO ... Dupli-Color Pre-Mix is COMPLETE CRAP!IMPO

I won't add too much extra as many have said the things and made the points I would have made (they probably did it better too).  My car was painted single stage to save a couple bucks.  It looks extremely good for a do-it-yourselfer.  Regarding the PPG "Omni" it's been re-named "SHOPLINE" (NO change in formulation).  One very great thing is that ALL the supplies for Shopline Single Stage & Shopline BC/CC are the SAME! (Hardner, thinner, flex agent, etc.). Also, according to the PPG Rep, you could easily top-over one with the other and have NO bad side effects.  If properly preserved, all the "extra supplies" can be used later with a BC/CC if you chose to "Upgrade" at a later date.  That's my plan.

For now, my car won't "rust to death" with a decent coat of paint. I plan to repair a few small body defects and quickly paint 'em single stage.  Once I'm ready for a GREAT paint job (Money, Time, Car SUPER PREPARED) I'll spend the extra $$ and go BC/CC.

Sincerely,
Kurt
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Grand73Am
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2009, 06:25:17 PM »

I also had a curious question concerning paint.  How well would it work if you used single stage paint then clear coated over it, just like doing bc/cc but your base coat is single stage paint.  Spray as many round of single stage (base coat) as you wanted then spray clear coat just like doing a bc/cc job.  Would it make the paint hold up better in the long run? 

Yes, that would work fine. I don't know what color you want, but in the case of black for instance, I think s/s black is blacker than b/c black, so I think it turns out even better. The main advantage to the clear is that it will buff easier than the black, and not show swirl marks. And I think s/s has better adhesion than b/c, so I think it would hold up better in the long run.
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Steve F.
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2009, 02:20:29 PM »

I spray single stage then wait 3 weeks to fully cure .Then wet sand with 1000 grit ,this removes any orange peel .Then 3 coats of clear.This gives a very clean job and a deep look ,Ive won shows with this combo.
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rtpassini
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2009, 07:18:19 PM »

I spray single stage then wait 3 weeks to fully cure .Then wet sand with 1000 grit ,this removes any orange peel .Then 3 coats of clear.This gives a very clean job and a deep look ,Ive won shows with this combo.
so you mean two stage then?
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Grand73Am
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2009, 07:29:19 PM »

I'm not him  Smile , but I know he means that he sprays out his single stage urethane, waits 3 weeks, sands it and sprays clear over the single stage. That is spraying clear over single stage. It would not normally be done that way, since single stage doesn't require a clearcoat. But it can be, since you can spray compatible urethane clears over single stage urethane color with no problem.

2 stage paint is a different thing...it's another name for basecoat/clearcoat. Basecoat is a different type of paint than the single stage, and must be clearcoated.
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Steve F.
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2009, 07:46:48 PM »

What he said,Thanks for clearing that up.I really dont gain on the shine as single stage has a very good shine if done right but I gain a deeper look and I get to sand out orange peel just like a 2 stage paint.
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rtpassini
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2009, 09:46:36 PM »

I'm not him  Smile , but I know he means that he sprays out his single stage urethane, waits 3 weeks, sands it and sprays clear over the single stage. That is spraying clear over single stage. It would not normally be done that way, since single stage doesn't require a clearcoat. But it can be, since you can spray compatible urethane clears over single stage urethane color with no problem.

2 stage paint is a different thing...it's another name for basecoat/clearcoat. Basecoat is a different type of paint than the single stage, and must be clearcoated.
right. i know that. i've painted before. but its still a two stage procedure with 2 different stage products.
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Grand73Am
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2009, 06:45:59 PM »

But you wanted to call it "two stage". Just because it's painted at two different times with two different materials doesn't make it 2 stage paint  Smile. It's still single stage paint with a clearcoat added. It would be confusing calling it 2 stage, since that term refers specifically to bc/cc. So, if you say two-stage, people who know paint will think you mean bc/cc. It's really about the accepted terminology...."2 stage" meaning bc/cc, which requires the extra step of a clearcoat topcoat.....and "single stage" meaning a urethane that is completed with one application, not requiring a clearcoat. Choosing to add a clearcoat to it doesn't make it 2 stage paint. If we go using these terms indiscriminantly, we won't know what we're talking about, and then what will become of us Very Happy .
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Steve F.
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2009, 01:13:31 AM »

S/S will be fine for a driver.  use the flex if you want to. I never have used it. and no problems. it only stays in the paint for a few days.  it evaporates out as the paint cures.
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