Author Topic: Cold start long cranks  (Read 965 times)

Mac

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Cold start long cranks
« on: August 24, 2023, 07:39:33 PM »
Why does it take long cranking and pumping the gas to start when cold. Once warm starts without touching the gas and on the first crank.
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FormTA

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2023, 08:19:20 PM »
The fuel wells are draining out in the carburetor. I am assuming you have stock carb. And/or engine heat is boiling/vaporizing said fuel in the fuel wells.

If it is a stock quadrajet carb, you can take them apart and seal the pugs in the fuel wells with JB weld. A plastic carb spacer will help with engine heat. There are a few like Mr. Gasket 3406 Phenolic Thermal Insulating Carburetor Spacer but watch out as some like this one will need trimming to clear linkages.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 08:25:28 PM by FormTA »
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
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b_hill_86

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2023, 08:22:11 PM »
Two main culprits and a third possibility.

1. Well plugs under the fuel bowl are leaking. Common in 75 and older carbs. Allegedly less common in later ones but my 78 ones were leaking.

2. Due to the nature of the design of the fuel bowl and vent todays fuels tend to evaporate a little faster.
I have a Holley carb I’ve run here and there over the years and if fires off like EFI. My QJET is pretty dialed in now and after sitting between a few days and less than a week it usually fires off pretty quickly. Less than a few days, warm or cold it fires off like EFI with one pump of the pedal. More than a week and longer, I crank 4-5 seconds before it fires. The alternative is I crank for 2-3 seconds and stop, hopefully filling the bowl a little more, give the accelerator a pump then it’ll fire right off.

3. The combination of your choke plate and primary choke pull of (vacuum break) could be off slightly. You want the choke spring just tight enough to barely fully close your choke plate fully then the pull off should be set to pull the choke flap open anywhere from 1/8” to 3/16” (I think) depending on your application.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 08:23:56 PM by b_hill_86 »
-Brian-

1977 Trans Am 400 4 speed

nUcLeArEnVoY

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2023, 02:04:40 PM »
#2 on b_Hill's post above, I can almost guarantee, is exactly what the issue is.

Today's fuel's are a lot more volatile than those from the late 70's, even today's REC-90 ethanol free gas is still formulated differently than the gas of that era. My '79 400 with its original carb does the same thing with cold starts and I have taken the carb off more times than I can count for various reasons and three times I've tested if the well plugs leaked (they've been marine-tex'd regardless, just in case) and they don't. That issue is not as common as everyone makes it out to be, especially on the later Quadrajet carburetors. It's probably not that, assuming you have the original carb.

One of the design flaws of the Quadrajet is that it has a very shallow fuel bowl, and the accelerator pump well is located rather high in proportion to the bottom of the fuel bowl. It doesn't take much evaporation of fuel (which is compounded by modern fuel volatility) after shut down to empty out just enough of the fuel bowl to compromise a good accelerator pump squirt.  Fuel evaporation after shut down at operating temp is normal, and just so you know, this was even common back in the day. Lars Grimsrud is another authority on Quadrajet carbs after Cliff Ruggles, and he's mentioned quite a few times that even when these cars were new, they'd take 5-6 seconds of cranking to get them started if they sat on the dealership lots for 5+ days.

Most of these cars were daily driven when new, which didn't allow for enough time for a lot of fuel to evaporate for people to notice this issue. Doesn't help to live in a hot climate.
1979 Trans Am 400/4-Speed W72/WS6 - Starlight Black Hardtop

Zach

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2023, 05:19:06 PM »
I have the same issue. Starts great within a day or 2, requires cranking to pump the bowl back up. It is what it is.
I’ve heard people run marine valves before the fuel filter in order to prevent flow running back. Never tried it but I’ve heard it works
1977 #s W72 400 4 Speed Trans Am
1971 351c 4 Speed Mustang Mach 1

Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2023, 05:19:06 PM »

Mac

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2023, 06:05:52 PM »
Thanks for the info. It looks like #2 b_Hill, definitely evaporating. Once started, will start instantly for that day and the next. 2 or more days takes a few cranks and starts, a week and it takes a lot of cranks and a long time to start.

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glenn911

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2023, 02:55:07 PM »
Mine does the same thing and Cliff rebuild mine and I run ethanol free 91. 
'79 400 4 spd esprit
'78 455 WS6 auto
'74 461 4 spd T/A

FormTA

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2023, 03:53:05 PM »
I know some internal filters have a one-way rubber check valve. I wonder if that would help.
79 Trans am low buck LS swapped
79 Formula 301 (Work in progress)
67 RS Camaro (waiting it's turn)
69 Dodge charger on late model charger chassis
49 Ford F1 on a 2003 Chevy ZR2 Chassis (current project)
Names, Luke. If I hear anyone telling me they're my father....

N PRGRES

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Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2023, 10:26:31 AM »
Mine does the same thing, but it doesn't bother me, I just crank her till she fires.  After that for a day or two, it's not an issue
Dave

81 Trans Am w/73 400.

Re: Cold start long cranks
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2023, 10:26:31 AM »
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