TAC Spotlight => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: 5th T/A on March 28, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
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Good evening,
It has been les than two weeks since TAC got a new server and software. Thanks to MR bandit and others TAC seems to be stable now. In my mind, I didn't know how much I really appreciated and missed TAC until it was no longer available. While we suffered inconvenient system outages, its not the end of the world. We still have lots of very talented and knowledgeable members willing to share their skills and experience. It is not clear how much of the old post or content can or will be restored. I am encouraged by seeing more activity every day. With that said I will try to reconstruct my engine upgrade project.
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I will start out by saying this is a project, not a restoration, really just an engine upgrade.
I purchased my 1980 Trans Am in early February of 2020. It has the normally aspirated 301 with a Turbo 350 transmission and a 2.41 axel ratio. The car is very clean, always stored indoors and had 6647 original miles when I purchased it. Since February I have replaced the original tires, replaced the radiator hoses, heater hoses, and replaced the fuel pump and rubber fuel hoses. I also replaced the rubber brake lines and flushed the brake fluid. Replaced a bad oil pressure sending unit and rebuilt the carb. I have put about 600 trouble free miles on the car. Currently I am very pleased with the cars looks, rides, and handles. I have a lot of history with these cars. Many decades ago I purchased a new 1973, 1975, 1978 and 1982 TA. While the 301 in my 1980 runs like a clock, the performance leaves much to be desired.
In May of 2020 I purchased a running 1974, 455, Y6 block with plans to do a rebuild with some mild performance upgrades and replace the 301 in my car. In July 2020, fellow TAC member “SPOON” (Chris) listed an engine he had built by Butler Performance in 2015. Unfortunately for Chris, other priorities got in the way and the engine sat. After talking with Chris and Butler Performance I decided this was the perfect engine for my car. It was probably over built, but with a very mild cam giving it good street manners and lots of torque. Chris and I worked out a very fair deal. What a great buying experience, Chris is a great guy to work with and went out of his way.
Because I had some cancer surgery in July, doctors would not let me lift more than ten pounds until September. Now I am ready to begin my project.
Engine is a 400, stroked to 461. Dyno results; 488.7 HP at 5000 RPM, 580.9 foot pounds torque at 3900 RPM. Runs on 91 octane pump gas. Has FAST EZ-EFI 2.0 fuel injection system. Ram Air Restorations manifolds with 2.5” collectors.
Things I know I will need to do,
Upgrade radiator, thinking Cold Case aluminum.
Upgrade the center support in the Turbo 350 transmission, also add a shift kit.
Weld the axel tubes on the differential. For the time being I will not change the axel ratio.
Add sub frame connectors from PTFB
I know the 301 accessory brackets will not work.
Anybody who has done this swap please share any suggestions or words of wisdom.
Larry
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Here are a few pictures of the car before I started.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51011155760_dde0c0c122_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kHFvpw)8250a (https://flic.kr/p/2kHFvpw) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51079643483_58cb8f97b5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPJwqk)8250k (https://flic.kr/p/2kPJwqk) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51080432552_4c58e05055_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPNyYY)8250d (https://flic.kr/p/2kPNyYY) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Last September I put the car up on stands with the intention of dismantling. The rocker panels were covered with undercoating. Using a heat gun to soften the undercoating and a scraper made out of a paint stirring stick I removed much of the undercoating. I then used mineral spirits on a rag to get the remainder off the rocker panel with out damaging the paint.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51080491092_089cc818a8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPNSoh)IMG_6493 (https://flic.kr/p/2kPNSoh) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51079690293_61400bcca8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPJLkp)IMG_6496 (https://flic.kr/p/2kPJLkp) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The entire car was heavily undercoated, I decided to go through the same process on the entire floor pan.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51011202325_35a09eb340_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kHFKfn)IMG_6582 (https://flic.kr/p/2kHFKfn) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50315984861_993eaf87ae_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jEfzjn)IMG_6796 (https://flic.kr/p/2jEfzjn) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51011240410_1733389906_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kHFWz1)IMG_6795 (https://flic.kr/p/2kHFWz1) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51080517472_e709be3f5b_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPP1e7)IMG_6810 (https://flic.kr/p/2kPP1e7) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
It took several weeks of very messy and labor intensive work to get the entire floor pan cleaned up. The end result in this last photo. no sanding or painting, this is the original finish on the floor pan.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51080424206_f033f0262e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kPNwv5)IMG_6820 (https://flic.kr/p/2kPNwv5) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Next I removed and cleaned up the fuel tank. The tank also cleaned up very nicely. Unfortunately I didn't know at the time the fuel pump that came with my EFi system would not fit through the sending unit opening. I did not want to cut into the tank so I eventually purchased a new EFI ready tank.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50372749261_fa5489fef4_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jKgvoV)IMG_6863 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKgvoV) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50372047308_067ae56eb6_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jKcUJh)IMG_6865 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKcUJh) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The inside and out the tank looks like new. Since I cant use it, I will try and find someone looking for a very clean original tank.
This is the inside of my original tank.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50372749371_9da8ba8116_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jKgvqP)IMG_6858 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKgvqP) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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I re-installed the fuel tank and differential. I then removed the exhaust system, drive shaft, transmission and engine.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50405802853_77c006dc1f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jNbV5r)IMG_6953 (https://flic.kr/p/2jNbV5r) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50406656662_b720793193_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jNghTh)IMG_6958 (https://flic.kr/p/2jNghTh) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50405802753_8cd7ef2029_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jNbV3H)IMG_6961 (https://flic.kr/p/2jNbV3H) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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At this point I could have started installing my new engine, but the subframe was also covered with undercoating. I figured its now or never. so I pulled the front spoiler, bumper and fenders. The fender on the left shows undercoating, the fender on the right has it removed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50585690487_25dc7a8f87_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k55Tpn)IMG_7186 (https://flic.kr/p/2k55Tpn) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The subframe removed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50501202288_800bc01a03_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWBS1h)IMG_7060 (https://flic.kr/p/2jWBS1h) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50502070077_95279da21b_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWGiYa)IMG_7068 (https://flic.kr/p/2jWGiYa) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The subframe partially cleaned up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50501913631_3bcc8db917_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWFvsP)IMG_7077 (https://flic.kr/p/2jWFvsP) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Initially I had intended to paint the subframe myself, but with outside temperatures too cool, I ended up taking it to a powder coater I had used previously for old motorcycle frames. I have no regrets because it came out far better being powder coated.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50556133592_ca22582b3a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2tpaJ)IMG_7137 (https://flic.kr/p/2k2tpaJ) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The subframe bolted up and my new engine installed. Steering gearbox, upper and lower control arms also installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50576731773_554a86ba4a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4hYhM)IMG_7175 (https://flic.kr/p/2k4hYhM) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50577457571_00350fe1cc_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4mG3x)IMG_7176 (https://flic.kr/p/2k4mG3x) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Looks great! Removing undercoating is a real pain, it is one of the most undesirable tasks to undertake. Having a clean sub frame really makes everything else look even better!
Jim
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x2. My initial plan with my 79 was to through some parts together and get it running and on the road. I now regret not removing the subframe. I painted it in place.
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Got the transmission cleaned up and installed. Once the car is back together and running well, I will pull the trans back out. I have plans to install a heavy duty center support / sprag assembly. I will likely have to play with the governor to raise the shift points to take advantage of my new engine. At the same time install a shift kit. The trans only has 7200 original miles and fluid is clean. So for the time being just a new pan gasket and fluid.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50584826338_8a8f70eb13_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k51swf)IMG_7179 (https://flic.kr/p/2k51swf) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50585690387_5150c2b57f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k55TnD)IMG_7188 (https://flic.kr/p/2k55TnD) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Using the wire wheel on my bench grinder I cleaned up the calipers and rotors.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50623008187_2bfd8050e7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k8o9DZ)IMG_7246 (https://flic.kr/p/2k8o9DZ) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I used Eastwood high temp paint on the calipers. Used a clear finish on the non friction area of the rotors.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50622907801_4eda687760_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k8nCPc)IMG_7249 (https://flic.kr/p/2k8nCPc) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
While the original Delco pads (on the left) still had plenty of lining I replaced them with new.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50622907726_1cca6e9226_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k8nCMU)IMG_7255 (https://flic.kr/p/2k8nCMU) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Good progress, nice to start with a clean car.
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I cleaned up the original steering linkage and front anti sway bar. Replaced the sway bar links with new Delco heavy duty from Rock Auto. Also replaced the the Sway bar bushings with new Delco. Installed heavy duty Delco front shocks, also from Rock Auto.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50722762553_a5dc4d6243_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2khcq9R)IMG_7398 (https://flic.kr/p/2khcq9R) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Jack,
I was very fortunate to find such a clean car. The stock 1980 TA with a normally aspirated 301 CI engine had the look but was lacking in the power department. I figured the car doesn't need to be rebuilt, just a power upgrade. It turned into more of a project than I anticipated. I am not complaining at all, I am really having a good time. Because of some health issues I was looking for something I could complete in months instead of years. Thank God I seem to be in good health for now!
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I realized I never posted a picture of my new engine.
Initially I had planed to install a slightly warmed over 455. I ended up purchasing this engine from fellow TAC member Spoon. The engine is probably overkill for what I need, but should have good driving manners and reliability.
It's a 400 block, casting XX-481988, Ross forged pistons, Eagle 4340 forged H-beam rods, ARP main studs, Eagle forged 4.250" crank, Eagle crank Armor coating, Comp roller cam, Lunati roller lifters, Mellon oil pump, Scorpion roller rockers, IMI starter, Edlebrock D-port aluminum heads, Edlebrock Performer RPM intake, EZ-EFI 2.0 Fuel injection, FAST Dual-Sync distributor, FAST E6 digital CDI and Ram Air Restorations exhaust manifolds. Engine was built and dyno tested by Butler Performance.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50310148881_3c19088ecc_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDJEu2)IMG_6754 (https://flic.kr/p/2jDJEu2) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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The alternator and power steering brackets would not carry over form my original 301. I ended up using 1974 brackets that came with a 455 engine I purchased last summer. I had the brackets powder coated. The original alternator on my 301 is a Delco 15SI with slightly larger bolt spacing than GM 10 and 12SI alternators used in earlier years. The 15SI alternator is rated at 70 amps max. Knowing the FAST EFI and CDI would put a heavier load on my charging system I chose an alternator upgrade. For now I will be using the engine driven clutch fan, but if I need to convert to electric cooling fans I wanted sufficient amperage at idle. I chose a Mechman alternator that was bench tested at a 146 amps at idle.
New Mechman alternator and original alternator, side by side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50722763028_cbc4c5ddea_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2khcqi3)IMG_7354 (https://flic.kr/p/2khcqi3) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
New alternator and power steering pump installed. I also replaced the stock balancer and water pump pulleys with billet aluminum from CVF.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50723498916_109589d5ba_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2khgc3L)IMG_7355 (https://flic.kr/p/2khgc3L) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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I had the core support powder coated, here is core support installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50722762618_ced0c97b75_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2khcqaY)IMG_7395 (https://flic.kr/p/2khcqaY) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I also purchased and installed a Cold Case aluminum radiator. It's a beautiful piece. Unfortunately once its installed you cant see much. Should do a great job keeping the engine cooled.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51013413385_241b43c8e2_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kHT5w6)IMG_7417 (https://flic.kr/p/2kHT5w6) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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AC condenser coil, horn bracket and front bumper support installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50752748251_62e4b22972_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kjR6RD)IMG_7450 (https://flic.kr/p/2kjR6RD) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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That looks so nice!!
amazing detail!!
I love it
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While most EFI manufacturers talk about how simple it is to install their product, to do it right can become a real project. There are several challenges, proper plumbing of the fuel system being one of the biggest. On second generation firebirds where the back half of the car is unibody, there is not a lot of extra room to play with. Our original fuel tanks were not designed for electric fuel pumps. While most EFI companies suggest using an in-tank pump, external pumps are an option, but the pump should be mounted bellow or close to the bottom of the tank. When originally built the fuel lines from the tank up to the mechanical pump use suction instead of 50 PSI pressure. If you decide to use steel hard lines as the factory did, you must upgrade the the connections to withstand the pressure. With EFI where the entire fuel line is pressurized, a fuel leak at 50 PSI has the potential of becoming a flame thrower.
There are multiple options. My FAST EFI system can run with an internal or external pump. It can run return-less (a single line run from the fuel pump to the throttle body). Or a full return system (One line from the fuel pump to the throttle body and a second line from the throttle body to a pressure regulator, from the regulator back to the tank. Almost every modern car uses an in tank pump with a full return system. FAST strongly recommends an in-tank pump and running a full return system.
The following are advantages of an in-tank pump; Pumps are much more efficient at pumping, rather than sucking. Pumps immersed in fuel run cooler and last longer. In-tank pumps are quieter.
The following are advantages of a full return system; Fuel pressure is more accurately regulated, this is critical for EFI systems. The fuel is constantly circulated from the tank up to the injectors, what is not used is pumped back into the tank, providing cooler fuel to the engine. Vapor lock or fuel percolation is eliminated.
While my original tank was in great shape, the sending unit opening was not large enough to accept the fuel pump. I didn't like the option of cutting into the tank and installing an access panel.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50372909732_e6464b2272_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jKhk6E)IMG_6866 (https://flic.kr/p/2jKhk6E) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
On the advice of other TAC members I went with a new fuel tank from TANKS Inc. It is a quality built product with lots of advantages over the original fuel tank. Ironically TANKS was running about a month behind in manufacturing, I was able to get it in a couple days from Summit Racing and for $50.00 LESS.
I did have to purchase the in-tank hanger kit for my fuel pump. Fuel pump mounted, notice the sound insulating sleeve.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50997907269_5c95fc1cac_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kGvB6g)IMG_7647 (https://flic.kr/p/2kGvB6g) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
One of the advantages of the TANKS fuel tank is a 4.7 liter sump fed by two 1/2" supply tubes. This keeps the pump immersed during hard acceleration and cornering. This picture is of pump mounted, looking through sending unit port.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51082836161_b022270864_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ1Tuv)IMG_7650 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ1Tuv) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The tank also has additional baffling to keep fuel from sloshing.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51082936302_16ba17a920_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ2pg5)IMG_7619 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ2pg5) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
This is the top of the tank with pump and sending unit installed. There are actually two 5/16' inch vents on this tank. tied together with a Y fitting.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51082938747_062e0697e1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ2pZe)IMG_7674 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ2pZe) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
New tank in foreground. It has a nice powder coat finish, but it is much easier to scratch than the original tank.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51082850611_219278fadd_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ1XMD)IMG_7680 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQ1XMD) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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My full return fuel system is finished.
My TA came from the factory with 3/8' supply lines. I wanted to use the steel lines because they tuck up close under the body. I cut the nipples off the end, changed the ends to a 45 degree reverse double flare, then used an adapter to -6AN connecters. I know I could have used a compression fitting to the -6AN, but I just don't like using compression fittings.
My factory return line is was only 1/4". I purchased a roll of 3/8" steel line and mimicked the bends of the factory return lines and bought some 3/8" steel spring to help protect the line.
The factory 1/4" return line on the right, The new 3/8" return line on the left, tied together with the vapor return/ vent line.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51097388649_3cb8561577_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRitrt)IMG_7873 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRitrt) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
New lines installed, thicker return line on the left.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51097421864_43e8fa0421_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiDj9)IMG_7879 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiDj9) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Trying to copy all the bends was a challenge, but I am happy with the result and like it better than running rubber lines under the body. I ran the power line for my electric fuel pump through the body using the same path the factory used for the rear lighting (no photo).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51097437422_b7080c4845_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiHWo)IMG_7882 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiHWo) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51097421749_8fb53173b5_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiDha)IMG_7883 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiDha) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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My car has been sitting and in pieces since last September. With the fuel system finished, I finally got it running. I am trying to keep my car looking as close to stock as possible. I like the traverse muffler used on factory dual exhaust Firebirds 1970 -1974. The low performance dual exhaust cars used 2" pipes in front and 2 1/4" pipes in back. RAM AIR and HO cars used 2 1/4" pipes from the manifolds to the muffler. Super Duty cars used 2 1/2" pipes from the manifolds to the muffler. I ordered a 1974 Super Duty system and its giving me grief with fitment. It's a tight fit. For now the pipes are loosely installed without clamps. The bends on the pipes over the rear axel don't seem correct. the exhaust is noisy for now until its properly installed. Also the alternator output cable is temporary for now. I just wanted to get the engine running. I also have to get a bung welded on one of my exhaust pipes before the EFI will go into closed loop mode for self leaning. All in all I am a happy camper.
I have never posted video links, hope they work!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/51097381244_134afdfdcc_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRireN)IMG_7888 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRireN) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/51098204760_1d39d713aa_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRnE3m)IMG_7889 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRnE3m) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
ECU mounted on core support, fuel pressure regulator mounted on fender.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/51097402131_7a7250ad04_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRixrV)IMG_7891 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRixrV) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
It almost looks like a road worthy car.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/51097951178_5a79340f97_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRmmEf)IMG_7890 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRmmEf) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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For comparison I found out in Rocky's book that the factory did not run 2-1/2" to the exhaust manifold - they used a 2-1/4" insert welded into the 2-1/2" pipes. Hooking up my Pypes 2-1/2" exhaust to the RAIII manifold is a b***h and getting those nuts to turn - no doubt why the factory did this. I am planning to order prebent 2-1/4" SS pipe from Summit and rework this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-622112
(http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=562635&stc=1&d=1615732621)
On my 71 Lemans I used high pressure fuel hose and simply bubbled the ends of the hardline then used fuel injection rated clamps - a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than AN fittings. The TA has AN fitting and a Russell Push-Lok adapter let go and sprayed fuel all over, so I am not a huge fan of adapter fittings!
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Larry, I appreciate the words and encouragement you leave in my posts, I will throw them right back at ya! Im more of a body type guy, not very mechanical but learning more every day. You and the others that do their own stuff amaze me. I will be doing fuel lines and new tank at the end of the month, I only hope it all turns out half as nice as your job. You made a comment on the cold case radiator not being seen, for me thats a good thing as I want my car to look as close to factory as possible. I need a new one and have thought about going with cold case but was concerned what it would look like. I think I will be safe.
Do you know where your car came from new? I know in an effort to make a profit, Pontiac made more than 1 white trans am, but your car is identical to the car my cousin bought brand new when he was a senior in HS. In 1982 I put a down payment on another, again identical to yours only to end up buying a 1982 Firebird. The colour combination of your car is my favorite for a trans am.
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Scarebird,
Thanks for the heads up on Pontiac only using 2 1/4" flanges on Super Duty manifolds. I have Ram Air Restorations RM-2-OS manifolds and flanges. While I didn't measure them, RAR claims the outlet is 2.45". I was able to hook up the head pipes, although it was not easy. My problem is at the other end, the pipes that go over the differential and into the muffler. It seems like the radius of the bend is a little too big. I need to play with them more and hopefully make them fit well. If not I might have to go to a real muffler shop. I know there are a lot of exhaust options for gen II Firebirds. I am trying to stick with a stock look and sound if possible.
I also appreciate the warning on push-lock adapter. I am using a reverse double flare to AN adapter, both rated for very high pressure and they are already installed. I think I have been very cautious on my fuel system assembly. I have double checked everything is properly torqued, not flexing or rubbing and no leaks under pressure. I am seriously considering carrying a heavy duty fire extinguisher in the car.
As mentioned before, I love your Lemans convertible. It really looks great!
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Kerry,
Regardless of my new engine, I am going for as much of a stock appearance as possible. I'm using original Pontiac accessory brackets, GM AC compressor and brackets. Much of the engine is covered up. Once the air cleaner and shaker are installed, it will look close to stock. Because the original engine has been removed I don't expect my car ever to be worth any serious money like your TATA or any of the earlier 70-74 TA's or Formulas. I am very fond of the white with blue accent color combination, same as my long gone 1973 and 1975 TA's.
Regarding a COLD Case aluminum radiator. If you will be using the stock fan and shroud on your car, the only part of the radiator that shows are the side tanks. I am pretty sure the installation instructions said it can be painted if you are looking for an OEM look. I purchased mine form Butler performance, at the time their price was the same as other suppliers, but they did not charge shipping or sales tax. It was actually shipped directly from Cold Case.
The window sticker on my 1980 TA said it was sold by Willis Motor Company, North Canton, Ohio. I beleive it was built in August of 1979.
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Beautiful work to say the least. Good stuff!
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Thanks Larry, Im heading to Carlisle at the end of the month. If I can squeeze my wallet any tighter I may look up coldcase. They usually have a pretty good display there. Be nice if they had a 'show special'. In the old days it seemed like a lot of the vendors did so but anymore about the only savings is on shipping.
At the risk of sounding rude, I dont think 'end value' has any relevance. I believe you and I (and most of the guys on here) build their cars for their personal tastes and enjoyment. IF value is at play I would think you have added to yours way more than detracting. Hypothetically I would trade cars with you in a minute!
Keep up the good work, driving season is upon us!!
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As mentioned before I purchased a complete 1974 Super Duty exhaust system and was having problems with the pipes that go over the rear axel and attach to the muffler. They were close but just wouldn't fit right. To get the car drivable I purchased two Walker 21548 Quiet-Flow mufflers. They have 2.5" inlet and outlets, would fit under the rear seat area and were reasonably priced.
Here are the mufflers mounted. Notice the Transverse muffler is still installed. I couldn't do anything for tail pipes other than the short tips I made.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51119628927_f631775d86_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTgsGx)IMG_7942 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTgsGx) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
A picture from the side, I got the mufflers up close to the floor, no clearance problems.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51119955644_7b109cccb8_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTi8PA)IMG_7946 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTi8PA) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Since I don't have access to a welder and have terrible welding skill, I took the right head pipe to a muffler shop to weld in the bung for my O2 sensor. After almost eight months I was finally able to drive my car. The quiet flow mufflers without any tail pipes are pretty noisy, They have a lot of low base sound, not in a good way. At low RPM it sounds like I am riding in a UPS truck. I really wanted to go with a stock looking and sounding system. When the car is finished I plan to take it to an exhaust fabricator and have them make over the axel pipes that fit.
The last two days have been good. I drove about 30 miles yesterday and another 23 today. Other than the sound, the car drives well. I am very pleased with the performance. I still have the original 2.41 axel and figured it would have to be changed to at least a 3.08 or 3.23. Even with the 2.41 axel, punching it from a 10 or 20 MPH roll it just lights up the tires. I know wheel spin doesn't mean anything, but it is fun. If I ease into the accelerator I can get moving without much wheel spin and it seems to pull well.
Today I installed an Optima battery with both side posts and side terminals. This simplified connecting up my E-6 capacitive discharge and ECU. The manufacturer FAST insists they are connected directly to the battery. I have a jury rigged connection from my alternator to the battery. I need to make a up a 4AWG cable.
Here is a picture of the engine from the passenger side. I need to order a longer AC belt and charge the AC system. Before I do that I need to replace the front seal in the AC compressor as it has a slow leak. If the shaker was installed on the air cleaner, you can hardly see the engine and almost looks original.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51120137298_80098062ba_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTj4Py)IMG_7941 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTj4Py) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Here is a shot from the drivers side, more of the engine is visible. I cleaned up the original wiring spaghetti mess over the intake manifold.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51119664762_e786912fd1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTgDmo)IMG_7947 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTgDmo) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
With help from a friend I hope to get the hood on this weekend.
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That looks so bad-ass! Very cool.
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Got my hood on, but running into problems making the shaker fit. Looking for suggestions.
My understanding is the Performer RPM sits 1.25 inches higher than a stock Pontiac four barrel intake. My engine came with an aftermarket air cleaner base that should work with a Pontiac 400 shaker assembly. With the air cleaner base installed the top of the filter hits the fiberglass on the shaker, keeping it from dropping down far enough. If I remove the element the fiberglass scoop will fit.
This is my air cleaner base assembly,
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51128136539_2ca97ee911_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kU24Hv)IMG_7969 (https://flic.kr/p/2kU24Hv) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Installed on the car,
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51128138969_7773d05e2d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kU25rp)IMG_7964 (https://flic.kr/p/2kU25rp) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Showing where the top cover hits the inside of the shaker when the element is installed. You can see how the cover hits the sides of the shaker, preventing the shaker form going all the way down.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51128129037_92f2f1e57e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kU22ua)IMG_7965 (https://flic.kr/p/2kU22ua) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
An option would be to use the PTF-EP-401 air cleaner base. It has a cone shaped element that is smaller at the top.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51128135432_c98a4327c4_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kU24oq)IMG_7966 (https://flic.kr/p/2kU24oq) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I tried calling PTF, but only got voice mail. Butler Performance shows this air cleaner base in their catalog but says it is not available. Anybody else run into this problem? Any suggestions? I see an alternative from Blockers, but I am not sure I like the look.
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Great progress on the motor install!! Must be so nice hearing it fire up for the first time.
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Shame youre having problems with the shaker. It does look like it lines up in the right place. I have an aluminum Ebrock performer intake on my motor but the PO modified the the air cleaner into a drop base. I had no idea that this was even done until after reading about problems with aftermarket intakes on this forum. I would have thought ( Im sure you did too!) that the butler thing would work with their motor. Sorry I cant help other than giving you moral support.
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Not sure how that all fits together. Can you post some other pics from different angles.
I’ll dig up some pictures of what I made to accommodate my Fitech installation. It could help you put
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Looking at it again this morning with less blurry vision 🥴 I see the interference. It does not look like an issue at all related to the height of the manifold. I guess use a shallower filter?
JT
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I got my air filter / shaker clearance problem solved thanks to suggestion from Gene-73. I purchased the conical shaped airaid filter as he suggested. That saved me big bucks from purchasing an entire filter base from PTF.
Thanks Gene!
New filter installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51150330520_71c3f6844a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVYPdm)IMG_8011 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVYPdm) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I put my old shaker on a new base purchased from Classic industries. New base is on the right.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51149477043_c83e7336ee_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVUrve)IMG_8013 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVUrve) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Shaker mounted on engine.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51148576337_a5d858ae48_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVPPKP)IMG_8017 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVPPKP) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51150364925_f5d6458744_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVYZrx)IMG_8019 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVYZrx) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I have put 170 miles on the new engine. Drivability is very good, no problems so far. Next on the list is to get my OEM exhaust sorted out.
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Good deal Larry,
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That’s slick. Glad it all worked out
You needaTA-7.X decal on that shaker
JT
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Congrats, glad you are driving it! What are your initial impressions of the added power?
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Ryan,
I really didn't have high expectations, I think I would have been happy with a slightly warmed over 400 or 455. I just wanted something with more guts than the standard 150HP 301 my car came with. Power wise I have far exceeded my goal. I had a friend try and time me with his phone to get an idea of 0 - 60 times, but it is impossible to launch from a dead stop. Really any aggressive acceleration below 15 MPH results in crazy wheel spin. My car has a 2.41 axel ratio, I thought I would be upgrading to a 3.08 or 3.23. For now I will not change rear gears. I am running P225/70R15 BFG Radial TA's. I realize there are better tire choices, but want to maintain a stock size and look. High speed roll on power without down shifting is very impressive.
Currently the turbo 350 transmission is not up to the task. It slips shifting into 2nd or 3rd under high power, so I back off allowing it to shift with less of a load. I hope to install a shift kit in the next couple of weeks. I also plan to install a heavy duty center support as this is a weak spot on these. I am looking forward to driving the car, hopefully I can hold off on pulling the transmission for a while.
Drivability is very good, no hesitation or stumbles, idles well. No leaks of any kind. I have driven the car in stop and go traffic, including one 80 degree day and engine temp has not gone over 190, this reading is from the FAST EFI display screen. I still have to charge the AC, so maybe that will make a difference. So far I am happy with the Cold Case radiator.
My only complaint so far is exhaust droning at certain RPM's. I am not done with the exhaust yet, getting this resolved is my next big item.
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Moving forward, but not necessarily in a straight line.
This last Tuesday I took the car to a shop that does custom exhaust work. Driving with my abbreviated system as shown earlier, not using the factory cross flow muffler. After looking at the pipes that were supposed to run over the rear axel and connect the muffler the shop agreed there is no way my pipes would fit. They fabricated a new set and did a nice job on the installation. I am running a 1974 SD exhaust system with 2.5 pipes from the RA III manifolds to the muffler. It has provided me with the sound I was looking for and no more drone or booming sounds.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51178062340_26d25fbd23_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kYqWVb)IMG_8039 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYqWVb) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
This system fits up tight against the floor boards and should not have ground clearance problems.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51178067105_5c581b59d3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kYqYkk)IMG_8070 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYqYkk) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Tuesday afternoon I drove the car home, about 20 miles. Stopped for gas and all was good. Wednesday morning I planned go for a ride, the car would crank, but not start. I got a fault code from my EFI saying the MAP sensor voltage was out of spec. I called EZ EFI, gave them my voltage readings from the sensor and was told to replace the sensor. I removed the throttle body, took it apart and found a split grommet where the sensor plugs into the throttle body. Since the MAP sensor is really measuring vacuum I figured it might just be a bad grommet causing my problem. Cant find just the grommet, so I purchase a new sensor. The MAP sensor is a standard GM/Delco part I could have picket up locally at the auto parts store, but the price was three times what I could find on Amazon. Hopefully I will receive my new MAP sensor Friday.
The throttle body in the center. The piece on the right is a manifold/cover that distributes fuel to the four injectors for the front two barrels. It has to be removed to access the MAP sensor lower left in picture.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51178100250_adfa18218a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kYr9bN)IMG_8076 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYr9bN) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
MAP sensor with split grommet. While the fuel injection system is six years old, it only has about 220 miles on it. I feel that maybe the grommet was damaged on assembly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51177020161_f21bb3ed5a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kYkB7z)IMG_8075 (https://flic.kr/p/2kYkB7z) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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All caught up and wow
Makes me excited to go work on my car.
I love the work you did on the fuel lines and as of yet, I haven't decided what I'll do. All rubber or mostly steel. I'm not going for a mostly stock look so I'm leaning towards all rubber. we shall see
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That throttlebody is a really nice looking piece! I didn't think that there were 8 injectors crammed in there.( 4 on each side)
Nexus, check out my thread and see if Nylon lines will work for you. Very cheap, easy to work with and very flexible.
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I think the 2.41 is perfect for that motor and tranny. If you are spinning the tires, a 3.23 would only make it worse and give poorer fuel economy and higher rpms.
It sounds like it is really running well with good power! Every thing else looks good. You are always going to have a few tweaks with a new setup and EFI. Congratulations.
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I purchased a MAP sensor off Amazon $12.99 for the part and $9.99 for shipping. My wife has an Amazon account and points? So the part didn't cost anything. I installed the new part and the engine started right up with no faults from the ECU, but ran like crap. Initially it didn't want to idle for a few minutes until the EFI compensated?. Throttle response was poor. Going for a ride I had terrible surging at lower RPM. Power was way down.
Since the grommet was torn on the original MAP sensor, I tried the new grommet on my original sensor. The car wouldn't start and was back to getting MAP sensor errors from the ECU. I put the new MAP sensor back in figuring maybe something wasn't installed correctly the first time. The car started right up but still ran poorly.
I spent about a day and a half checking everything with the fuel injection to no avail. I ordered a genuine GM MAP sensor from O'Reilly auto, had it the next day. Installed the sensor and the car ran great immediately. Even my wife who knows nothing about cars said it sounds much better. I am back to very good drivability. For now its all default settings, I have not played with timing or advance curves at all. Max timing is only 30 degrees. In the not too distant future I will call Butler Performance to see what they suggest for ignition settings as I am concerned about detonation with too much advance.
I still have a list of things I want to do, but none I have to do. My AC had a leaking front compressor seal before I replaced the engine. I will replace it before charging, I don't want the oil messing things up. I never cleaned the undercoating off the differential because I thought I would be changing ratios. For now I am very happy with the 2.41. Probably the very next project will be to install a shift kit on my turbo 350.
So far I have about 325 miles on the new engine and enjoying it more every day.
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Excellent work.
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Excellent job troubleshooting! Glad to hear its up and running again!
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Its been a while since I updated. This is all very minor compared to what most folks on this forum are doing.
I now have 470 miles on my new engine. Lately I have been spending more time driving rather than finishing up unresolved issues. At 500 miles I plan to do the first oil change.
As mentioned before, with my new engine shift quality from my turbo 350 was poor. I felt like I was doing damage having the transmission upshifting under full power. Back in the 70's I used to always install B&M shift kits, they provided harsh and brutal shifts under power. After researching a little I went with a TransGo 350-1&2 kit and I am very happy. The shifts are firm and the transmission responds well.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51254862065_7f8bae66ef_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m6dyNn)IMG_8221 (https://flic.kr/p/2m6dyNn) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I also have been playing with some of the settings on my FAST ECU. Most notably I added about 10 degrees of electronic vacuum advance. While lite throttle response seemed good before, it seems a little snappier now. Drive ability has been good and I am truly enjoying this car.
Today I received a few things ordered from Ames and installed them.
The plastic retainers for the lower half of the urethane bumper cover broke as I removed them, these were only a buck a piece.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51254580609_adeab0be8a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m6c88F)IMG_8218 (https://flic.kr/p/2m6c88F) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
My power steering cap was weeping just a little, so I ordered a new one. The replacement cap looks identical, but is gray instead of black. As long as it doesn't leak I don't care.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51253840616_a310ce0f9e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m68kab)IMG_8217 (https://flic.kr/p/2m68kab) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
My windshield washers don't squirt. I found the washer bottle cap tube was cracked and thought this was the problem. While definitely broken it seems the pump is bad. I can hear it engage but there is no suction. Probably a bad diaphragm or check valve.
While I really enjoy driving my TA I am a little worried about some distracted driver plowing into me. I mostly have been driving on rural roads trying to avoid congested areas. This will only be a nice weather cruiser , but I want to drive and enjoy this car. Am I being paranoid? Anybody else feel this way about there Firebird?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51253845061_b05f8f85b7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m68mtP)IMG_8216 (https://flic.kr/p/2m68mtP) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Absolutely! I didn't think I would be this protective of my car. I also won't take it anywhere where it will be parked out of sight for more than a few seconds. I went to get pizza last night with it and was thinking, hurry up guy getting my pizza, I have to get back to my car (even though I could see it. In an almost empty parking lot some lady in an SUV pulled in an Park right next to it... Really? She wasn't even interested in it, just decided she needed to park there... I know, it is going to get were and tear as I drive it and that is what I built it for but part of my soul is in that car.
Oh, and I hear you on unfinished items. I drive my car whenever I can but many thinks are unfinished. I have no wipers or motor, none working radio, no wheel fairs, actually one rear is on.... I just love driving it. I really need to get it finished...
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Max timing is only 30 degrees. In the not too distant future I will call Butler Performance to see what they suggest for ignition settings as I am concerned about detonation with too much advance.
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Look into the J&S Electronics Safeguard device. This may help with your timing issues, allowing better control if detonation is an issue, and better power and fuel economy if/when it is not. I have not used one yet, but when I get that far on any of my projects I intend on doing so.
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While I really enjoy driving my TA I am a little worried about some distracted driver plowing into me. I mostly have been driving on rural roads trying to avoid congested areas. This will only be a nice weather cruiser , but I want to drive and enjoy this car. Am I being paranoid? Anybody else feel this way about there Firebird?
In the case of my car, it's a Trans Am clone from an Esprit so my reasoning is that it's not a high value car so I shouldn't be worried about damage/theft. But after putting 5 years of work into the car it has a high value to me. So yeah, I'm paranoid also.
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I'm with you on the thoughts of exposure to the elements and more so >>>> the public.
I recently changed jobs and although the commute will be about 3 min shorter, the parking for my area is right on a main drag and exposed rather than gated or out of site. We'll see and I plan to up the declared value on it should it be lost somehow.
But the thought to keep it and have nicks and other stuff on it is in the back of my mind
Its not even done yet.
Got a bit burned out doing the Camaro, but spent a solid 4 hours in the garage tonight and I'm starting to feel it again.
JT
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Up until yesterday I had not touched the front end alignment. The car would track straight with my hands off the wheel but the steering wheel was off center by a good 40 degrees. While reinstalling my upper control arms I put all the shims back in their original locations figuring caster and camber would be in the ball park. I did a little research online and decided to use steel fishing line set up as a rectangle to adjust toe-in. I had to build four platforms so my car could be up high enough for me to adjust the tie rods and still have it sitting level with the weight on all four wheels. I spent almost half a day lifting the car. Setting up the steel cable. Taking measurements, adjusting the tie rods. Lots of up and downs, it would have gone much faster if I had an assistant taking the measurements while I stayed under the car. After the first road test my wheel was still slightly off, so I had to go through the process again. It was a time consuming process that would have been much easier if I had access to a real alignment rack.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51266641598_b57a71cf64_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m7fWrL)IMG_8236 (https://flic.kr/p/2m7fWrL) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
The black impact sockets were used as weights to keep the cable taught. I squared up the cables by measuring up against the center of the wheel where the center cap installs, 4" on the fronts and 4 5/8" on the rears, making the distance the same on left and right side of the car. I would then measure the front and rear wheel lip distance to the cable for my toe measurement.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51265722572_04c27e9419_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m7befu)IMG_8234 (https://flic.kr/p/2m7befu) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
it doesn't look like it in this picture, but the cable height is the center of the wheel.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51266461601_caad662a9d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m7f1Wn)IMG_8235 (https://flic.kr/p/2m7f1Wn) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Looks like a pretty nice diy settup. Hope you got it dialed in right.
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Funny you post that. My 77 has always pulled to the left gently but to track straight I’d need to turn my wheel slightly (to approximately 2 o’clock). I took the car for an alignment but was told the camber couldn’t be adjusted any further cause there were no shims to remove. I later found out these tend to suffer from a bit of frame sag over time which effectively pull the upper control arm mounts inward. Anyway, last year I replaced my lower control arm bushings, outer tie rod ends and upper and lower ball joints. That all helped but even after another alignment it still pulled left with a cockeyed wheel. This year, I installed offset upper control arm shafts along with new upper bushings, inner tie rod ends and a new center link. I decided to try to address the steering wheel and toe myself as best as I could. I was not nearly as scientific or methodical as you however. I literally locked my steering wheel straight with the column and eyeballed the front tires in relation to the rear. They were noticeably off before I adjusted the tie rod sleeves. My hopefully last alignment is tomorrow so we’ll see but the car tracks nice and straight now. Had I seen your post before I adjusted mine I probably would’ve tried your method.
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Yeah, that's a very intelligent way to do it!
Thank you
I will likely try to do something similar when I get to that point but wouldn't have thought to do it this way!!
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While I have a few things to take care of on my car the hot humid weather has kept me from doing much. As you may recall I had issues with trying to make my shaker hood scoop fit. I wanted a functional shaker that was attached to the engine and would move around while the engine is running. For me this is an important part of a Trans Am. The fact that my car is not raced and mostly used for relaxed cruising, knowing what I know now I would have used the Pontiac factory cast iron intake manifold and not an aftermarket. My Edlebrock Performer RPM sits 1.25” higher than a Pontiac four barrel manifold. To use this with a shaker hood scoop requires a special drop base air cleaner. It’s my understanding the factory manifold flows very well but can be improved by porting. The factory manifold will keep the shaker at the correct height and you won’t have any carb or transmission linkage issues.
This is the air cleaner my engine came with. It was supposed to provide the correct height for my shaker. I have to add that this original drop base air cleaner was purchased in 2015 and it's possible a current version may fit better. The problem is I had to purchase a cone shaped air cleaner for the shaker to properly fit. It also required a special retaining ring other than the original. These two items cost an additional $119.00. While the hood would close, the shaker was sitting way to high.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51404710251_a5e3417ac1_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mjszrM)IMG_7969 (https://flic.kr/p/2mjszrM) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I recently purchased this air cleaner and am very happy with the fit and shaker height. It is made by PTFB but I purchased from Butler because it was $10.00 less.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51404976698_cf26ed6253_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mjtWDG)IMG_2632 (https://flic.kr/p/2mjtWDG) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
This is a comparison of the original WFO-1 on the left and the EP-401 on the right. Between the lower height of the EP-401 and the additional drop at the carburetor flange, this lowers the shaker 15/16".
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51405703340_7c10baf4ef_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mjxEE1)Air Filter (https://flic.kr/p/2mjxEE1) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I want to also mention that my car originally came with a normally aspirated 301 that sits much lower than a Pontiac 400 or 455. This required purchasing a new baseplate from Classic Industries F10193, purchase for $99.99. If your TA came with a 400 or 455 this would not be necessary.
At the top is my original shaker mounted to the new baseplate. At the bottom of the photo is my original 301 baseplate. notice the difference in height and angle. Also the air cleaner base is 14 5/8" on the 301 versus 16" on the 400.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51405016873_842647cbdd_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mju9An)baseplates (https://flic.kr/p/2mju9An) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Last I want to mention that my FAST EFI throttle body is supposed to be the same height as a Holley 4150 or Quadrajet, but might have complicated things some.
Hopefully anyone thinking about a similar swap can learn some from my headaches.
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That's a lot of useful info on the air cleaner for folks making similar engine changes! You will certainly help someone! Unless the site crashes again..... ahahaha I'm tempted to download it and save it in my computer "just in case" someone needs the info on another forum or something.
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Glad you're figuring out that shaker. I remember messing around with those back in '09-'11. I tried that WFO kit from Butler and it did not fit my '79 T/A at all! After that, I worked with Dave at PTFB. He got it better but he really got this new finalized design to fit better a few years after I gave up on these. Glad he got these things figured out.
Good stuff!
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The car looks beautiful.
I'm learning it takes much longer than I thought it would to get these projects 'dialed in' just the way we want them.
Sounds like you are right on track though, getting things done one at a time. It's great that you're finding time to put some miles on it and enjoy all your hard work.
Congrats on the progress...Looks awesome!
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something to check--I notice in your earlier fuel line pictures your rubber hose is SAE 30R7 which is regular fuel line. Not rated for fuel injection. Would be okay for the return line, but make sure your high side supply line is fuel injected rated (30R9).
I feel you on the hood scoop issue. Factory air cleaner is also 2.75 and most aftermarket replacements are 3.0 high which makes the problem worse. I converted to edelbrock proflo and the throttle body is shorter than a carb. Still had to trim, cut, weld, space, angle, etc to get it to fit perfect. I did use this seal on the shaker. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088SXDTPV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088SXDTPV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)Not concours correct, but fits very well and no drilling or messy glue required.
Greg
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Hi Greg,
I appreciate you keeping me safe on the fuel lines. I think this is the picture you are referring to. On the left is the 3/8" steel fuel return line. The line on the right transitioning from steel to rubber is the 5/16" vent/vapor return coming from the fuel tank and going to the charcoal canister under the hood. It's a vapor only line and not under pressure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51097421864_43e8fa0421_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiDj9)IMG_7879 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRiDj9) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
I am running steel hard lines wrapped in springs under the chassis. Where I had to use flexible rubber hose I used this line supplied by FAST my fuel injection manufacturer (SAEJ30R9).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51416558804_c092f1973d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mkviBb)IMG_8569 (https://flic.kr/p/2mkviBb) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
My original fuel return line was 1/4" My EFI requires a full return fuel system with 3/8" lines for supply and return. I used an inverted double flare on the steel line and adapted that to -6 AN twist-Lok to connect the flexible rubber hose. All is rated to handle in excess of the 40 PSI requirement of my fuel system.
Leaking fuel under pressure is potentially very dangerous, I thank you for looking out for me!
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So some people might wonder what did I gain by pulling out a perfectly good 301 engine with only 7200 miles and replacing it with a new 461.
Here is my best 0-60 time recorded May 4, 2020 with the original 301. 0-60 in 9.40 seconds.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437998550_3c4ee41a79_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnpbTY)IMG_6370 (https://flic.kr/p/2mnpbTY) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
This was recorded today September 8, 2021 with my new engine. Wheel spin is my biggest problem. I tried carefully easing into it, once I was rolling pretty good I would still end up with too much wheel spin. My best 0-60 was 4.77 seconds. I feel I could easily cut half a second off if I can get a launch without lighting up the tires. Some time in the future I will play with tire pressure to see if that helps.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437302818_16b27e971f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnkC5A)IMG_8602 (https://flic.kr/p/2mnkC5A) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Just cruising the car is lots of fun with gobs of torque and a great exhaust sound, but not obnoxious.
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Pretty good upgrade!
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That's a cool comparison!!!
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What an improvement! Roughly half and that is where a performance car should be. Just for reference, the magazine published data on a stock 79 400 was 6.5 seconds.
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That is awesome! I think I have finally outgrown the urge to roast the tires from every stop sign/light. I was really feeling guilty after I drove my car as I felt I was beating it to death. But man is it fun! My car was a 301 as well before the LS swap. It is just soo much fun now! Sounds like you are in the same boat!
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Nice update!! That 0-60 is very respectable.
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Thanks guys for the positive response. I am very happy with the performance of my new engine, maybe I could get a little more out of it if I played with fuel mixture and timing. That’s low on the priority list right now. What does bug me is my 2.41 axle ratio; 5600 RPM has me shifting into second at 70 MPH. My speedometer maxes out at 85 and I really have no urge to go any faster. I mostly drive on the backroads of Wisconsin, probably no faster than 60 MPH most the time. I am thinking in the future of switching to a 3.08 or maybe a 3.23. While in high school I had a 65 GTO convertible, it had a 389 but only a two speed automatic. With my current axel ratio I am really only using two gears.
I finally did something with my disgusting looking wheels. They looked OK from 5 feet away but up close looked bad. Most my life I longed for the 15X8” aluminum snowflake wheels that became available in 1978. In 1980 they would have been an option on my car. I am also a fan of the rally II wheels that were more common on early second Gen Firebirds. I decided I like the silver charcoal look over the silver white my car came with, plus the White really shows the dirt while the charcoal does not.
My original wheels had a terrible paint job. Notice the masking on the spokes, lots of runs and sags.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51477156029_741161ac9b_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mqRT3V)IMG_8629 (https://flic.kr/p/2mqRT3V) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Lots of labor involved, removing the tire, sanding, priming, silver paint, then masking, charcoal paint and finally mounting the tire on the wheel.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51477158729_10b9a9b444_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mqRTRt)IMG_8622 (https://flic.kr/p/2mqRTRt) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
So far I have just done the two front wheels. The second one turned out better than the first. I just started working on the third now, starting to get good at it.
The second wheel completed. I will mount the center cap in a couple of days when the paint has had more time to dry.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51477169949_d279f334db_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mqRXbV)IMG_8623 (https://flic.kr/p/2mqRXbV) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Old white wheels on the back and newly painted wheel on the front. What wheel do TAC members think looks better? White or Charcoal? Or maybe 15X8” snowflake?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51476478466_39e7bd016d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mqNpCN)IMG_8625 (https://flic.kr/p/2mqNpCN) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Those look great. I wouldn’t mind white but there’s nothing wrong with the grey either. I repainted my Rally’s probably 10 years ago before I had one of each set of 7 and 8 inch snowflakes. It’s definitely a lot of work but worth it. Your lines look nice and crisp.
I just swapped my rear from a 2.41 to a 3.08 late last year. It was a nice difference. I drive on the highway frequently at 70-75 so I like staying at or under 3k rpm. If you rarely breach 60 a 3.23 would probably suit you well.
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Traditional charcoal Rally's by a landslide!
Looks great!
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Larry, you did a fantastic job on those wheels. Up close youre right, those white ones looked pretty bad. I have said before and will say again, that your white with blue decal car is my favorite 2nd gen T/A (coming from someone with a black and a silver car :shock:). Personally, I like the looks of the white rally II's, but the grey looks great. I have a set of rally wheels laying around somewhere that I wanted to restore and paint them black to what they would look like on my car. Just not high on the priority list.
I know what you mean about the rear end gearing. Im in the same boat, just dont have nearly the same amount of HP. But I dont really drive fast either. I have found that with the gearing in the rear and a 3 speed tranny the sweet spot seems to be right around 55-60 mph. Car just kinda glides at that point. THEN it hit me!!! 1977 national speed limit was 55!! I suppose the engineers knew something.
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The charcoal looks so much better, you need something to break up the colors. I think body colored wheels look good on red or blue birds but not white.
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All the work done with my engine swap/EFI/new fuel system/ cleaning the underside didn't make a difference in the car's appearance. Bang for the buck repainting the wheels made a big difference in the car's looks.
This first photo is of when I bought the car. The florescent lights really reflect, for 40 year old original paint it looks good. Although if you lay on the floor and look at the rockers and the lower fenders you can see how bad the quality was in 1980. I get envious of beautiful body and paint work done on the restorations of most TAC members. The body side molding was a dealer add on option. I don't know who put on the front and rear mud flaps, while I understand how they protect I never liked the look. Those were the original Uniroyal tires. They had plenty of tread but were not safe to drive on.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51500478321_dad4d449e3_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2msVpXp)IMG_6041 (https://flic.kr/p/2msVpXp) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
This is it today with wheels repainted, Radial TA tires, mud flaps removed and body side molding removed. The gray and silver Rally II's were an option and it brings me back to the early Gen II cars.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525769850_ce0c4ab7b5_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mva3ff)IMG_8694 (https://flic.kr/p/2mva3ff) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Looks awesome! Nice work.
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Definitely the charcoal version!!!
Turned out great!!
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I haven't done any work on my TA, just been enjoying going for rides. Today was a beautiful fall day so I went for a 40 mile ride and played with my performance computer a little. I was able to get my best 0-60 time down from 4.77 seconds to 4.42. I would like to do better and traction is my biggest issue. Any one run P225/70 15 tires that they consider stickier than the BFG radial T/A's?
I want to stick with the stock tire size and prefer white lettering.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657895414_10ea039fe5_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mGQdzd)IMG_8991 (https://flic.kr/p/2mGQdzd) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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I bought x4 of these for the 79 and am pretty happy with the ride and traction
V rated too.
https://www.performanceplustire.com/tires-for-sale/vitour-tires/galaxy-r1-5/ty:Tire:ts:225-70-15/
The lettering looks offset but it is not on the actual tire
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Anything is better than BFG's concerning traction.
I found these to be superb:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=AltiMAX+RT43&partnum=27TR5AMRT43OWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
I have had customers tell us that Cooper Cobras beat BFG's hollow.
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Thank You Rambler and Scarebird, both are considerably less expensive than the BFG’s.
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5th, Do you need to run that size? Are the rears 15x8? If they are, the general consensus is that you can run up to a 245 rear tire with an 8" wheel. But, with a larger sidewall, there is more give. You can probably run a 255 rear tire safely. I checked a calculator online and if you went to a 255/60-15 over your current 225/70, you'd have 12.4% more tire width.
I saw that Wheel Vintiques sells a 15x10" Pontiac Rally wheel, that you could get a 285 or 295 tire on! I believe that a 275 tire fits really easily in 2nd gens, and the 285 or 295 will fit, but you need the backspacing spot on.
I have traction issues with my car so I've given this area some thought haha.
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Ryan,
You make a great point about trying a different size tire on the back. I don’t want to go with 10” wide wheels and I still might switch to 15X8 snowflake wheels. I need to take some measurements and give it some thought. 12.4% more with and a better tire might be enough.
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I have had a problem with my shaker hood scoop not being centered. This may not bother most people, but I am kind of an obsessive individual. Since my engine upgrade the shaker scoop has been offset about 5/8" towards the driver side and sat almost 1/2" higher on the driver's side. This was not an issue with the original 301 and I used the original 301 mounts. I double checked making sure I was using the correct holes in the subframe. I purchased stock replacement mounts from Rock Auto for $6.68 each. I toyed with the idea of aftermarket polyurethane mounts, but they were well over $100.00 a pair and I was concerned about NVH issues. With the new mounts my shaker/engine is centered and level.
Unfortunately, I did not take any before pictures, this is how the scoop looks now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51814068707_791b693ccf_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mWCDsc)IMG_9316 (https://flic.kr/p/2mWCDsc) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
On the left is the new mount and the right is the original left mount. When bolted in the tops in the picture would actually be pointed towards the bottom of the subframe. You can see the rubber isolator has shifted on the original mount. This might because of age and maybe torque of new engine? One thing that does concern me a little is the gage of the steel frame is thinner on the new mounts. I have not driven the car yet, hopefully the engine will stay in position.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51815031611_ea41c01d40_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mWHzFZ)IMG_9311 (https://flic.kr/p/2mWHzFZ) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Did you get a chance to see how the mounts are handling the torque of the engine?
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Charlie,
I have driven at least 150 miles since installing the new mounts and beat on it pretty good. So far the engine/shaker hood alignment looks perfect. I am keeping my fingers crossed it stays that way. Changing mounts with the engine in the car, especially with Ram Air exhaust manifolds is not easy. In hindsight I should have installed new mounts before dropping the engine in. If these mounts don’t hold up I will probably replace them with the new Poly mounts that Butler is selling.
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That isn't a bad idea!!
Glad to hear it's working out so far!!
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I see it has been over a year since I posted on this thread. While pretty much done my car is not finished.
In the last year I evacuated and charged the AC system. The AC works fine but honestly, I do not use it. Most my driving is on country backroads with the windows down. At one point I thought about replacing the stock GM A6 style compressor with a modern compressor that weighs half as much, uses 1/3 the horse power and is half the size. I am torn between keeping a stock look under the hood and modern technology. Soo for now I leave at is.
I tried installing a 160MPH speedometer from classic industries. I thought the original 85MPH speedometer looked a little lame. Also, under hard acceleration my original speedometer would temporally stick. The 160 MPH was supposed to bolt right in, it did not, lots of work was required to make all the lights and indicators work on a 1980 or 1981 gage cluster. Once I had it all in I decided to go back to the original 85 MPH speedometer. Carefully lubing the original speedometer with very light weight oil fixed the problem with the needle sticking under hard acceleration. I did upgrade the original incandescent instrument bulbs to LED's from "Super Bright LED's". I recommend using LED bulbs like these that are not polarity sensitive.
I upgraded my low beam headlamps to Holley LEDS, I am very happy with them as well.
My driveshaft is original untouched with a coat of rust. I want to clean it up and paint it or just put a clear coat on to keep the rust away.
I also have not touched the differential, it is partially covered with undercoating and rust. At one point I wanted to change gear ratios from the stock 2.41 to a 3.08 or 3.23. The more I live with a 2.41, I think I will keep it and just clean and paint the differential.
I also go back and forth between replacing the rally II's with a set of 15 X 8 snowflakes or painting the rally II's white again. I always wanted a set of 15 X 8 but am thinking more of going back to the original white paint on the rally II's?
A couple months back I did upgrade my audio system. I really just wanted the factory radio sound decent, but have no regrets on the upgrade, posted here http://www.transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=84623.0
While I had hopes of getting my wish list completed this summer, upcoming hip replacement surgery will likely delay it a little longer.
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You have a good list there. Too bad the speedometer didn't work out for you. I couldn't deal with an 85 MPH speedometer. :-)
Sorry to hear about your hip replacement, hopefully it all goes well and you bounce back quickly. Good luck and God speed!
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I top out about 60mph so your speedo would be fine for me :lol:
I need to crawl under my car to see the results of sitting for a couple of years, but all of the bare metal stuff I had I coated with 'Shark Hide'. Its a clear coat kinda product but does not look like a finish is on there. Its made to coat bare metal and prevent rust.
I love the look of the white rally wheels on a white trans am. My first trans am that I owned briefly for a night was equipped that way. Well, not technically owned but I put a down payment on a 81 trans am, only to find the 82 firebird I bought the next day.