TAC Spotlight => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: ryeguy2006a on March 08, 2021, 06:28:17 AM
-
Once I received the #11 bearing from Tick, I was able to get it pressed on and started the reassembly process. It went pretty smoothly during the install, until I got to the part where I needed to press back on 5th and 6th gears.
Here's where I started back with my assembly. I made sure to inspect and carefully reinstall all of the syncros into the blocker ring assembly. It is also important to lubricate the parts with trans fluid as you install. Don't forget about the bearings too.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50908702262_d944de75cc_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50908570781_66cc6beb39_b-1.jpg)
Moving on and almost ready to test fit the main case. Up to this point everything slid together and retained with large clips. Next up was to re-install the main bearing, 6th and 5th gear. It's also worth noting that I did need to disassemble part of it at this point because the shift rail for 3/4 needed to be installed still.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50908697562_5996fcc461_b-1.jpg)
Here is what I came up with to install the bearing and gears. I found it online somewhere and it worked well for the first bearing, but I later found out that because the assembly was not 100% square, it was causing me to strip threads on the rod that I bought. I think also in part, it was the composition of the rod that I bought. I didn't realize it at the time, but the rod was a low strength carbon steel rod. I should have opted for a high strength 10.9 or 12.9 unit from McMaster Carr, or others. And for anyone that may be attempting this, the thread size for the T56 Magnum shaft (as well as most Tremec transmissions including standard T56) is M12 x 1.75.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50907869438_140a9ab1c4_b-1.jpg)
After struggling for several days, I was able to get the 6th gear pressed on so that I could get the main case bolted together. I also made sure to put liquid Teflon around the guide pins, shift detents, and reverse light.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50908535176_9dee22c510_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50907836918_47577f95fb_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50907835993_862a1bc3bf_b-1.jpg)
After a bunch of cussing and thoughts about it, I decided to try another way. I removed the 2" cap that I had drilled and in its place I used a 1/2" steel plate that I had with a small hole in it. I also put the pipe piece I had directly on the gear and against the flat steel. This gave me a much straighter pull and it almost effortlessly allowed me to press the gear on. I regret not taking a step back to re-evaluate how I was doing it. Would have saved a lot of aggravation.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50922682812_7e40f9e74d_b-1.jpg)
Once that gear was back in it's home, the rest of the parts slid right into place.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50922549106_f60ea6be98_b-1.jpg)
Here is the final trans back together. I'd be lying if I didn't row through the gears for at least 10 minutes. I still need to get or make a plate for the mid-shifter location, but otherwise it's ready for install. Those 2x4 pieces that I have are for to space the bellhousing off the floor/workbench so that the input shaft doesn't have pressure on it.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50922549511_fccb1310df_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50922549726_875da4f657_b-1.jpg)
I also received my LS3 valley cover which will make for a much cleaner PCV install. I found a good deal on a new crate motor take off on eBay that came with bolts and a new gasket.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50923018172_66ddc8c2ca_b-1.jpg)
Next up is to get everything on the motor bolted together so that I can get the longblock ready for install. I'm planning on installing the motor/trans bolted together as one unit and hopefully only one time. Since I'm really replacing an LS motor for an LS motor and Tremec transmissions that have very similar external dimensions, I'm hoping for no surprises. The biggest question mark for me is going to be the shifter location. If my measurements are correct, it should only be 1.5" farther ahead than my old Fbody T56.
I'm getting so excited to get the motor back together and hear it run.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Thanks Luke!
Doesn't visually look like I've gotten much accomplished, but the short block has been completely buttoned up. I only had the timing and rear covers on to keep dust and dirt out.
I started out back and got the rear cover aligned with the pan and torqued down. Followed that up with the correct "big bearing" to properly match the TR6060 input shaft.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50947523287_c0343d00b6_b-1.jpg)
Next up was the front cover. I still needed to align the oil pump before I could get it final torqued. I used the .002 shims and it centered up very nicely. I oiled everything up with assembly lube, torqued and then installed the timing cover loosely.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50947522107_7529e81c2a_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50946721068_36776c03f8_b-1.jpg)
Now I'm really starting to get excited about this project. I'm on the downhill side and starting to bolt on new (or new to me) parts. I grabbed my stock LSA balancer and installed it on the crank. I made sure to lubricate the hub so that it didn't tear the new seal. I have a crank pinning kit on the way and once that is here I'll add a few pins to make sure that the crank doesn't spin.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50946720593_f827278a4c_b-1.jpg)
I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish this, but I used the transmission to help align my oil pan. I cleaned up the sealing surface and put a dab of silicone on the 4 corners where the front and rear covers meet the oil pan gasket. I snugged the oil pan to transmission and then torqued the pan.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50949677542_b99598a46c_b-1.jpg)
While the transmission was attached, I test fit my starter. I had to get another starter because the TR6060 uses the smaller size.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50949677817_0a423b8d43_b-1.jpg)
Reinstalled my Holley mounts and now it's ready for the heads and valvetrain.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50948870553_cc702f6c5e_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50949674577_e15bdd4855_b-1.jpg)
My 18MO shop buddy helped me put all of the bellhousing bolts where he felt they needed to be haha. Love having him help me in the garage.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50949581261_828d2efa0a_b-1.jpg)
Then moved onto the heads. I got all of the valve springs installed in the heads and they are ready to go. I put assembly lube on any moving part and now they are ready to install.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50949577026_a63a761e3b_b-1.jpg)
Once the heads are on I'll check my push rod length and button up the top end.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Made some more progress on my engine last week. I installed the LS7 lifters that have been soaking in new oil along with some trays.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973781801_1e26630acd_b-1.jpg)
Then I cleaned up the deck and head mating surfaces and installed a new LS9 head gasket.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973087723_801f6b6843_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973780386_eac2e0a022_b-1.jpg)
Finished the head install with a set of ARP bolts torqued to their specs.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973886302_e8bfe2a02a_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973778891_290ab0e3dc_b-1.jpg)
It was getting late when I was in the garage and got carried away test fitting the engine accessories. I started by test fitting the water pump, and before I knew it the whole accessories were mocked up.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973777526_9e5f5ed9e6_b-1.jpg)
I test fit a new LS1 Fbody belt that I had kept in the event that it would work with my new accessories, but it's way too short. The routing looks good, but I do need to find a smaller idler pulley. This one was a random one that I had just to mock up.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973876087_fd8521a7fe_b-1.jpg)
Then I got to looking at the low mount with truck alternator. It's going to be really close, and the positive stud will be contacting the frame. So I'm either going to need to reclock it or try a new alternator.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973083368_0264f9939c_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973876107_1da4b3dedb_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973076858_c20f6f26c6_b-1.jpg)
I finally tracked down the last part that I needed for my Hybrid TR6060-Magnum project. I needed a mid-shift plate to cover up where the stock TR6060 shifter was. I found one listed on eBay along with a shifter and messaged the guy. He sold me the plate by itself, Win. I'll get some new bolts, but here it is installed hand tight to keep out dust/dirt.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973767846_9d6c3924fb_b-1.jpg)
I also bought a few other parts. One is a trap door for the trunk so that I can swap out fuel pumps much easier. I like how this trap door is very slim and won't intrude into the truck far.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50973767131_1c7e608cee_b-1.jpg)
I also finally found a fitting that works for the fluid pump on the TR6060. It is Dorman Part# 800-732, with a 9/16-18 thread with O-ring on the transmission side and a 5/8-18 inverted flare fitting for the line. I opted to go with a conventional flare nut over an AN fitting because I think it will do a better job of cooling, and a little easier on the wallet.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50978394178_24f69ba479_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50979205407_8dcde01e48_b-1.jpg)
I also got a 5' section of 3/8" NiCopp line with fittings and a Holley CAN splitter.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/02/50978394473_284d526ca4_b-1.jpg)
Thanks,
Ryan
-
I've been continuing to make progress toward getting this motor installed. I have been jumping around, but I wanted to make sure that I've got everything test fit and ready so I only have to install the motor and trans once.
I started by mocking up the motor and engine harness. Holley gives a lot of extra wiring length, so I'm working on cleaning that all up. I'll wrap it up inside of the cabin, but outside it fits much tighter and cleaner. I also need to add a few wires for the Flex Fuel Sensor and MAC valve. Another little detail is that I had to re-drill the coil brackets to lower them by about 1" so that they clear the fuel rails. I have some really nice mesh wire wrap that I'll finish it all up in. Should look very clean and tidy when I'm done.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015918237_dbc19e7dab_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015101498_65e6d8b6c3_b-1.jpg)
I mentioned that I'll be wiring up a MAC Valve, and what I'm going to try and do is use it as a makeshift boost control valve. There are a few people online who have been playing with the Terminator software to use this valve to control boost in certain situations. My intentions would be to turn down the boost while I break in the motor, but it could be used for traction control, valet mode, and etc. Something for me to play with down the road.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015098628_3973396a1d_b-1.jpg)
I also picked up a cheap LS1 Fbody alternator to try in the low mount position and it wasn't any better than the truck, so I'm back to square one.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015823946_38c0b30150_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015096903_34a8aaff7f_b-1.jpg)
I bought these a long time ago, and was looking forward to installing them ever since. With all of the miles on the stock rockers and the added lift from the cam, I opted to go with brass trunnions. I went with the CHE Trunnions for two reasons. I really liked how these had a floating design rather than a pressed in fixed bushing, and secondly by default of their construction the ease of installation. Because they are a floating design it doesn't require any press to install. They all just slip together. Overall it took me about an hour to assemble and lube them all up. Very impressed with the quality here and would recommend them highly.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015823021_cf26c41767_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015912252_b06c37d428_b-1.jpg)
After I installed the rockers, I measured for pushrods and came up between a 7.375 and 7.400, so I opted to use the 7.400 that I already have. If they end up being too tight and give that sewing machine sound, I'll swap them out for the looser of the two. What was interesting is that when I went to rotate the motor to check for pushrod length on a few different rockers, the motor was frozen. It didn't want to move at all. Now, I have doublechecked everything along the way so I was terrified I screwed something up. I assumed the worst, but it didn't make sense as nothing has changed that I could think of. So ended up pulling apart the front of the engine and found the culprit... oil pump. When I had disassembled to shim, I must have flipped the drive around and it clamped tight. I swore I was careful about orientation, but somehow got flipped 180*. After I corrected that, everything turned freely. While I was in there, I took the opportunity to document my timing marks as I didn't get a picture before. Re-torqued and reinstalled everything.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015094243_094f4f9fcf_b-1.jpg)
I then moved onto the clutch master cylinder swap. Last season I wasn't happy with how stiff the pedal was on my car. After researching I found out that Tick uses a 7/8" bore Tilton which by nature is more stiff, because the 3/4" is what came stock. So because I'm going to run a McCleod RXT which will be stiffer than the LS7, I opted to swap those out now. Nice thing about having the parts already fit, is it was a simple remove and reinstall exercise.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015821006_4c86ab70e1_b-1.jpg)
I got a crank pinning kit from LSXInnovations and the first one was "lost" in the mail, so they sent me another one. Well the replacement came one day and the "lost" one showed up the next day. I've contacted them to return one, so I'll see what they say.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015092568_0e09d8174b_b-1.jpg)
I cleaned up the low mileage clutch (500 miles) that I bought a while ago and followed the installation instructions per their specs. All went very smoothly. The steel install tool worked so much better than the plastic ones. The trans slid right together.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015091733_4d627870b8_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015909767_8f30e39323_b-1.jpg)
Then I bent up and installed the fluid pump lines. Unfortunately the driver's side wouldn't fit the tunnel, so I need to make some changes to how it's routed. I'll end up using the stock line that came with the trans and a compression fitting so it will be a quick fix. But I was a little bummed since I liked how clean it was. Oh well.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015090123_ceae3a85a9_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015816796_8b9c9b978f_b-1.jpg)
Then after about an hour of messing around to carefully not hit anything, the motor/trans are installed! Overall the fitment is very similar since the drivetrain that it replaced was almost identical. I was worried that the slightly larger TR6060 bellhousing would be an issue, but it fit with room to spare. That's a huge relief. Another huge relief is that the stock Tremec shifter fits right in almost the same spot as my T56 Fbody trans. Overall a huge win!!
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51018669078_7a984aba67_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/03/51015816866_9b50faf90f_b-1.jpg)
I'm hoping that the rest goes pretty smoothly since I'll be bolting on many pieces that were already fit to the car like the exhaust. I think I can make a slight modification to a truck alternator and it will work, but I need to get one in my hands. Another detail that I decided to do while I'm upgrading everything else was to upgrade from Terminator X to X Max for DBW. I was looking around at my throttle body options and considering a Nick Williams but they are $400 bucks. After looking around I was able to upgrade to Terminator X Max (Thanks MCB), sell my Terminator X base (Thanks Jonathan) and buy a pedal/throttlebody for about the same price. Should give me more control over when safeties can be activated and a few other options. So I'll need to make a few changes to accommodate that, but will be worth it in the end.
Thanks,
Ryan
-
Luke, you did a great job on that LS swap. I think it may be time to start thinking about the 67 RS now:drive:
I made some more progress over the weekend. I decided to change gears and start thinking about my fuel system. I got the tank installed and mocked up so that I could cut an access hole in the trunk. I cringed a little before I made the cut, but it was worth it to be able to pop the fuel pump in and out so easily.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039757497_e09b20f733_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51038930748_e5110f719a_b.jpg)
I need to get the hammer and dolly out to flatten out some of the panels. I'll also likely need to stitch weld some of the seams to make a flat spot to mount the access door. My pan is to make it look like semi-factory when it's done.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039659371_f0bf6e4e14_b.jpg)
Mocked up and cut my power steering lines. The fittings and line are Russell Power Flex and were super easy to make. Made for a nice clean routing.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039653721_72f4bdb616_b.jpg)
Then I turned my attention to my fuel tank. I bought the fuel sender from Rick's, but it ended up being pushed out several times on backorder, so I decided to make my own. I had a few leftover parts from another attempt I had at making a fuel sender in my last tank and built my own. I had a spare fuel sender that came with another fuel pump housing that I cannibalized the mounting point from. It worked out really well and works great.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039743812_15ded9cf93_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039750022_5cd5d9beec_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039744072_80e18fc4f2_b.jpg)
The finished product installed in the tank. It's ugly, but works flawlessly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039749397_9e6cbb025b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039747137_00064e40ab_b.jpg)
I also made the change recently and decided to go with a Terminator X Max for the DBW function. I found a good buddy who wanted my Terminator X ECU and he bought that. Win win for both of us. I bought a gold blade LS3 throttlebody and a C6 pedal, just waiting for the new ECU to come in before I can test to make sure that they all work properly together.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039662571_cd3831a520_b.jpg)
I went back and forth on the few options that I have for running a low mount alternator in f-body location, but at the Vette spacing to line up with my CTS-V accessories. The stock truck 105 Amp alternator that I have would work other than the battery stud points right at the frame. After a failed attempt at trying to reclock the alternator, I thought maybe I could bend the stud to fit and get a new alternator. While this worked, it was not ideal. I found out that the Powermaster 484831 alternator has a side post stud, same small case CS130 and would be located roughly in the same spot that my bent stud was and it is a 165 Amp unit. But after mulling it over for a few days I decided against that because I'm just not a big fan of where the stud comes out.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039753842_1262f8d48b_b.jpg)
That led me to think outside of the box. I found out that the 14+ Silverado/Sierra alternators are all a side post models, directly bolt into the location I need, are roughly the same size if not a bit smaller and come in 150 or 170 Amp models. Only downside is that they are controlled by PWM+ and will not function properly without the proper signal. I found a cheap 170 Amp unit on eBay this morning and will give this a try. Plus I should be able to program an output in X Max to drive the alternator and can use it to ramp up based on load. Keeping my fingers crossed that it fits because this would solve all of my alternator issues.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
re-subscribed!!
-
re-subscribed!!
We are watching you Ryan :lol:
-
X3
-
I bet you are itching to get this running! I was out yesterday in the TA. Good work on the fuel sending unit! I like it when things are built, not bought.
-
Thanks guys, I'm still making progress.
Luke, you have no idea. It was 65* yesterday and I would have loved to take the car out. Motivation for sure.
The warmer weather has come early this year and I'm now chomping at the bit to get the motor back together. The 14+ Alternator came in pretty quickly and I couldn't wait to test fit it, but unfortunately the dimensions that I found online weren't accurate and it is just a little too big for the low mount position. I was able to get it installed, but it meant shimming the bracket .100" away from the block and would need to lower the sway bar mount just to get it fit. Dealbreaker, but I'll save this alternator for another project. I had some parts sell unexpectedly so I bought the Powermaster alternator this morning that has the CS130D case which I know fits, is 165 Amps, and has a side post. Here's a picture of just how close the 14+ alternator was.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062565952_381bfe3406_b.jpg)
Moving on I had to remove the snout of the supercharger in order to replace the stock spring isolator with the revised solid isolator from Eaton. Found a little wear from the spring on the shaft, but luckily there isn't anything that rides on that part of the shaft so it won't affect anything. PSA to all LSA owners, Replace your spring isolators.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062497241_8dd159a561_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062497826_7bb09fb62e_b.jpg)
While that was off I also wanted to swap out the stock 2.95" pulley for the Griptech 2.50" pulley and ZPE hub. Wow that stock pulley was a PITA to remove. I ended up breaking the Harbor Freight 3 Jaw puller, but was successful with my bearing puller and impact gun.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062494986_b7866ae71b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062491861_c02bda3c06_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062495921_eb68caeb70_b.jpg)
My father in law let me stop over and borrow his shop press and we were able to get the new hub pressed on.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062576842_bb16806e6d_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51061770593_b3ba7561fb_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062568777_0b84b6f3f1_b.jpg)
Then after test fitting the LS3 Throttlebody, I realized that on the driver's side of the opening, there was a spot that rose up slightly and after looking at other ported snouts, they smoothed this out to give a straighter shot into the intake. My buddy let me borrow his porting tools and I got to work. Here is the before doing my best to show the restriction. The right side of the picture is what I'm talking about.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062580682_bef44bd1f0_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062563867_ab8a4e22b5_b.jpg)
Here is where I roughed it in being very careful to keep a light touch and long sweeping cuts.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062477956_53f0f2a72a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062479751_3bb94f47f6_b.jpg)
Then I used some sanding drums that I had starting with 80 grit and finished with 100 grit. I definitely thing it's an improvement, but I'm sure it was minimal if any improvement. I washed it out multiple times to get all the grit out.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062477896_814eefd47f_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062477826_eab87161f6_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062559427_eded5b5a6b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062558777_ee2b4ac9c3_b.jpg)
Changing directions I also was able to get my trans crossmember modified since the TR6060 Hybrid was a little longer. Ended up needing to move it back about 1.25", but was at the same height.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062568682_55ed71cc74_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062482916_3e5b73a440_b.jpg)
I was using my dad's welder since he has a 211 Miller, whereas mine is a smaller 135. Glad I did because it gave excellent penetration. I didn't get the hang of his welder until the other side where I got all the settings perfect. Welds were a little hot at first, so I had to keep dialing it back. I could definitely get used to that welder for sure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062475476_249211aba7_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51061758558_589c9216f2_b.jpg)
I also mocked up my engine accessories to make sure there wasn't any clearance issues anywhere. Luckily it all fit just fine, but wanted to be sure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062493076_6a830d2234_b.jpg)
Now that the crossmember is finished, I'll be able to bolt up the trans for good and get my measurements for the driveshaft. One last thing though before I can do that is swapping out the differential yoke. I have a pretty bad leak there so I figured while I was addressing that I might as well upgrade to a 1350 yoke to match the trans and driveshaft I'll order. I bought this cool tool that will hold the yoke which will come in handy when I torque the new yoke down.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062578907_7ea67a46b9_b.jpg)
I'm hoping to swap the yoke this week and get some measurements for the driveshaft sent out so that can be made. There is a lead time so I want that to be in process while I work on everything else. I need to button up the fuel pump door in the trunk next, and start bolting parts back onto the car. Also hoping to get the supercharger back together soon and test fitting it soon.
Thanks,
Ryan
-
I've been keeping busy and making a little bit of progress here and there. I got out into the garage last night and had something to show for it. This is partially an upgrade and partially maintenance. I've had a pinion leak since I build the rear end, but am now addressing that. Apparently you are supposed to add some sealant to the splines on the yoke, not just the nut. Lesson learned. Anyway, it was a great excuse to upgrade to a 1350 yoke while I had to pull the old yoke anyway. Hopefully I can get this back together soon, but I'm waiting on the correct pinion seal.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51072766153_9c58266a74_b.jpg)
I should have just gotten the Powermaster 484831 from the beginning since I was sure that it would fit my needs. Failed attempt at using the 14+ Silverado alternator, but at least I tried right?? Anyway, this Powermaster unit checks all the boxes; 165 Amp, side post, and compact enough to fit where I needed it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073562992_7a955e499c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51072686953_dba7c8f2e3_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073483017_fe96d9e51f_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073482577_1ed3c85616_b.jpg)
Again, I'm a sucker for a good deal. Picked up these Holley Tall Valve covers for half of retail that are brand new. They really serve two purposes for me; one I don't have to clean up my old scrubby ones, and two it moves the coils down so it doesn't interfere with the LSA fuel rails. And I'll add a third, they really look great. I'm either painting them Chevy orange or Torch Red to match the car. Haven't decided.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51004170185_40d4c6c8fd_b.jpg)
I also picked up a used Elite Engineering E2 Catch can with all the hoses and one way valve. Looks new, and helps with forced induction from what I understand. I'm going to build a mount off of the supercharger tensioner to keep it out of the way and easy to access. Unfortunately the head mount bracket won't work.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073450632_504cacf919_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51004164415_ab71edd8a5_b.jpg)
Then the moment that I've been waiting for for a very long time. It's only mocked up at this point to check for interference, but it really changes the look of the engine bay.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073452297_025a49ec9c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073450787_83bf9d3642_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073344866_95ec1174f8_b.jpg)
My cowl hood bumps up in the middle so this should clear no problem.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51073349226_acf99b98e7_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51072652618_b44868aa61_b.jpg)
This picture is straight across the two fender top body lines.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51072653093_aa628eed13_b.jpg)
I'm so pumped about hearing this thing run! Ordered a few more parts and thankfully there is only one more large purchase and a few smaller ones before I can call it done.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
All very cool! But I think I'm most excited about your improved welding skills! Great job! I wish I had time and your patience to do something like this but I don't and I'm quite happy with the new found HP I have.
-
That is a crazy amount of work and focus. Probably the most impressive part of the build to me is how you research components and how they fit as a system and integrate it all. Good stuff.
JT
-
Are you running a vacuum pump to your brake booster?
-
Thanks guys!
Luke, it makes a huge difference when you have the right tools. I still really want to pick up a TIG welder.
JT, I love/hate doing the research. It's rewarding when you finally find the missing puzzle piece that completes a certain task. But it also takes lots of research on my end.
Scarebird, I'm not running a vacuum pump. There is a port right after the throttle body that is used to supply the booster with vacuum.
-
Now that the motor and components are all fitting together, I wanted to focus on the systems that I'm changing up and getting them ready to fire up the motor. One thing that I wanted to do is adding a fuel door in the event that I ever needed to change out my fuel pump assembly and/or upgrade the pumps. It will make the job soo much easier/quicker in the future. I wanted to make it sort of look like it could have come this way so I wanted to blend in the bead rolls. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.
Here's the starting point where I hacked it away.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51039757497_e09b20f733_b.jpg)
I made some pie cuts on the bead rolls then used a hammer and dolly to flatten them out. One side popped up and the other side popped down. Once it was all flat, I used my mig to weld it back together then ground it all flush with a flap disk.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089897691_e8746d2d24_b.jpg)
I used some sprayed the door with etch primer, seam sealed the bottom side, then topped it off with some satin black to blend it in with the existing trunk. Once I get the truck cleaned out, I'll go back and spray it over with some trunk splatter paint to give it a more original look.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090441228_d9ea1b1c73_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089874929_1a77251d6a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090342908_413dfe7a3f_b.jpg)
Tank is installed for good now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090610935_02c0be1cfd_b.jpg)
I talked with Carl at Vaporworx and ordered some parts to finish up the install of the PressureWorx kit. If I had bought new I would have had all the terminals and wiring, but since I got it second hand, I needed a few of the terminals. He was super helpful and got back to me right away. Excellent customer service. It's also worth pointing out one reason why I'm so glad that I upgraded to the PWM, since I found some previous work that wasn't my best. I don't remember the soldering being this bad, but check out the corrosion. I believe I did this about 3 years ago, so it happened pretty quickly. This most certainly would have failed at some point in the near future. It pulled apart when I gave it a little tug. Per Carl's (and Andrew's) recommendation, I'll be crimping my connections going forward.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089970909_a278f03662_b.jpg)
As many have likely found out, the backorder on the Terminator X Max kits is pretty extensive with Holley directly. I waited for about a month and in the end just decided to stick with a cable throttlebody, rather than going DBW right now. Maybe when they are back in stock this fall I'll try again. For now I shopped around and found a great deal on a used Nick Williams 92mm. Came with the sensors too which is a big bonus. It fit great, and just barely cleared the PS reservoir. I'm going to make my own version of the Motionworks DBC bracket using a truck cable holder that I've had for a while and good news is my old throttle cable fits with room to spare. WIN.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090607730_9401c4544a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090606725_6171bca1b4_b.jpg)
Moving back to my yoke swap on the rear differential, I started doing some research on the correct seal. I found out that all of the one's that you get at the parts stores and RockAuto are actually meant for truck 12 bolts. Some people used a small 1/8" shim or don't fully tap in the seal to get the right depth. Then I found out that there is one company that does make the correct seal, and it's available at Summit Racing. Ratech RAT-6109 for those interested. This will allow the seal to sit closer to the seal mating surface on the yoke since it sticks out farther.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089872774_667e182131_b.jpg)
Timkin vs Ratech.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090604600_5404a86f05_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090338178_be4a49d5d9_b.jpg)
This along with silicone on the yoke splines should fix my leaky differential. Then more exciting news is my driveshaft from PEM racing came in. I'm very impressed with the quality and how quickly it shipped to me. This is their Drag Racing 3.5" .125" wall driveshaft with 1350 ends and Spicer solid U-joints included. They had the best price by far, and it came with free shipping! I ended up measuring 42" with my combination, but if you are replicating this build measure yours first. The guy I emailed there said that this combo should be good for around 750+HP, so I should be well under this figure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089870309_907d0e31e1_b.jpg)
Installed my Sonnax 1350 ujoint and test fit everything. Looks like I measured spot on with about 7/8" of stick out of the trans.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089868239_0872b6c0d5_b.jpg)
I ran out of time to get the yoke reinstalled, but the new seal is in. I'll need to torque it and then check the rotational drag with a torque wrench. Then I can button up the driveline and test fit the exhaust. I'm hoping that my mufflers won't be too close, but if not I may have to modify them or possibly replace.
I'm hoping to get out in the garage tonight and get a lot of work done.
Ryan
-
I've been working outside getting the house around for the early spring we are having. It's been nice enough for the last 3 weeks that I could have been driving my car which is extremely rare in NY. I've been plugging away with little projects here and there and have enough content for an update. After reading about all the problems that guys were having with the stock Tremec shifters leaking, I kept my eye out for a good used one and found a great deal on a barely used Hurst shifter. It didn't come with the shifter adapter, but I made one since Holley wanted $94 plus shipping for the little adapter. The shifter feel is much tighter compared to the stock Tremec. I measured before and after since I had the stock one installed at the time. The throw was about 5" from 3rd to 4th with the stock shifter, and 3.25" with the Hurst. This shifter takes out the slop and makes for a more firm shift.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090705525_85dfbe00ee_b.jpg)
What I started with
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113226214_8e373ddf7e_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113378963_b9b39b4755_b.jpg)
Finished product, and also got the boot fit up nicer than I had it last fall.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113464201_0c84e29cc9_b.jpg)
I have also been working on a DBC throttle bracket for the last few weeks here and there. I finished it up last night and am very happy with how it turned out. 1/8" aluminum plate and a 02ish truck throttle cable bracket that I trimmed the 3rd mount off of. I used a piece of cardboard, then a thin piece of aluminum, then the final piece.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112901027_02dbc64e2b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51114253170_c34abf8c0c_b.jpg)
Final product. It works really well and I also have room if I decide to run a cruise control module.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113465506_6575e90a5a_b.jpg)
I have also been working on prepping the supercharger for the final install. Now that I confirmed that the snout needed no further porting, I replaced the spring isolator with an Eaton solid unit then silicone'd it all back together with Loctite 598. Note that this is what is supposed to be used, not just any black/gray silicone.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51114253185_60423f46fa_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089886677_e78308d8fe_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51089897941_31bbfdacb0_b.jpg)
I also bought some aluminum online and made up some plates to reinforce my intercooler brick. I sent those out to be welded and should have them back by the weekend.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090441023_5afbcec1a6_b.jpg)
Then externally I had to make a clearance for the fuel fitting off of my fuel rail. I added a fuel pressure adapter so that I can put a regular gauge on there in the event I needed another spot to troubleshoot my fuel pressure. At the time I had lost my fitting, but I used this -6AN fitting I had to mock it up. I was positive that one of my boys took it and put it in a drawer or bucket or something. I'm also planning to make a bracket to mount the fill port for the supercharger coolant off of those two holes. Will make for a nice simple bracket to mount that fill port.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113469051_52b47478c5_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113378333_b2c6e0f0e1_b.jpg)
Well it wasn't the kids that lost it...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51114252105_d4db878043_b.jpg)
I also starting on my wiring. Carl from Vaporworx recommended 8ga wire from the battery directly to the Pressureworx module, so I'll do just that. I also routed the MAP wires along with the fuel pump wires so that I can utilize the boost referenced feature. Not much to show, but this big mess. I'm glad that I went with Carl's recommendation of 25' of wire because I needed all but about 3'. I was planning on buying 15', but I would have been way short.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113464576_9bb9401bc4_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113465711_bf3e0b76bb_b.jpg)
I also had a few parts come in from RockAuto. New knock sensors and a really nice molded hose for my booster. Both were really cheap. That molded hose will work perfectly and routes so cleanly around the supercharger. It's the part number for a ZL1 Camaro, but could be the same for a CTS-V. It needs to be modified slightly, but I'll grab a picture when it's installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113374138_cd05a87695_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113465516_b71e8e4e6b_b.jpg)
Cheers,
Ryan
-
I’m sure those knock sensors will be more beneficial this time around with the boosted engine. Also good that you figured out Holley actually has them disabled on their base settings even though they plug into the harness.
Good stuff!
-
Scarebird, I'm not running a vacuum pump. There is a port right after the throttle body that is used to supply the booster with vacuum.
My friend has a 68 Chevelle SS with a 6.2 LT1 and tossed a Whipplecharger on it. His vacuum was not enough to run the brake booster, though I wonder if the booster is to blame here. We refit it with a manual Corvette master but other issues have cropped up.
-
Sorta glad to see I'm not the only one who suffered some frustration with uncooperative stuff this winter (Just saw the 6spd rebuild...man that looks SWEET!) I think it'll be well worth the effort. The shiny insides of a TR6060 are eye candy (Especially for a guy like me who'd never get to see them otherwise). But...Holy cow Ryan, that SC'd engine looks amazing in there! Like a big beautiful fresh bag of Jelly Bellies!
Glad to see you're back on the downhill side of things. This car is gonna be a brute! Can't wait to meet it in person.
Congrats on the progress.
-
Ryan,
Everything is looking fantastic. I chuckle at the name Penny Pincher. Back in 1968 General Motors could not have accomplished the same level of performance and refinement that you are able to achieve with an unlimited budget.
-
Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate that. My reasoning for the Penny Pincher is that while I use quality parts on the car, 90% or more of them are used. I typically like to spend 50% of retail, so I'm always pinching my pennies. Although Part 2 of that was because originally I had planned on painting the car burnt orange, so it was kinda like a penny. But I'm happy we went with Red.
I made a bunch of progress this weekend and I officially have reached the end of the parts buying stage... well maybe more tires, but you get the idea. Earlier in the week I broke broke down and finally picked up a bigger torque wrench. I've needed one that goes over the 150 lb ft unit that I have a few times now and this seemed like a good time since I had to torque my crank bolt. Before I torqued it though I wanted to pin the crank which as super easy with the kit from LSX Innovations.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125123079_736820e100_b.jpg)
I only ordered the torque wrench, but when I looked in my box there was also an extension set. Funny because I've been meaning to buy another 1/2" extension. Thanks AutoZone!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125121479_98dc364ced_b.jpg)
I picked up another crank holding fixture that bolts in place of the starter because surprise, the overseas one that I bought didn't even come close to fitting. I got the one from MAF and it was a perfect fit. After I bolted it in position I torqued the crank bolt per the instructions. Now can I just say that 235 lb ft is a lot of torque! Glad that's over.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124810632_702c673f1a_b.jpg)
Next up was making a bracket to hold my reservoir/ fill cap. For a little bracket like that, it looks simple, but took me a while to get it just right. It sits about an inch higher than the highest part of the brick so it should do it's job to purge all the air out of the system. I want to replace those bolts with some button head or allen socket bolts.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126179920_30dd8630ce_b.jpg)
Here is the fuel pressure tester schrader valve I added. Could come in handy someday.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125117784_01cc6686b5_b.jpg)
I've been holding off on installing anything on this side of the motor until I got the balancer torqued so I had clear access to the starter area. Installed my eBay find LS3 starter and was anxious to know if it worked. So I installed it, tested the starter solenoid and it easily bumped the motor over. Such a tease...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124810202_b767a0bc65_b.jpg)
I also found an nice place to mount my fuel pump controller. Nice and out of the way, on this little mounting plate I made. I have the wires from the battery and crimped the terminals and it's installed on the controller now. Just need to crimp the battery side and then from the controller to the fuel pump itself. Shouldn't be long now and I can test fire the fuel pump and controller. Before I test it though I also need to make a bracket to add the flex fuel sensor inline.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124812797_388f37a442_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125117054_c57a00e4dc_b.jpg)
Not sure why I kept putting it off, but I made my fuel crossover too. I used all Racetronix fittings and lines and they installed very easily. Very pleased with them.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125117394_8974f0ef3a_b.jpg)
I have been working on and off for about 2 weeks trying to figure out the best place to install my catch can. I was hoping to place it roughly in the same spot as the cylinder head mount, but the 8 rib tensioner occupied one of the mounting holes. What I was going to do is shave off 1/4" from the backside of the bracket and then it would bolt in place. Then my father in law came over and said why don't you find a way to maybe bolt it to the tensioner bracket. Then a lightbulb went off and I came up with this pretty clever idea. Since the bolt hole that holds the tensioner on is tapped all the way through and is completely open on the backside, I installed a longer bolt through it and it created a stud that I could use on the backside. Then all I had to do was shorten the bracket that came with it and drill/tap one hole on the bracket. Doesn't harm the integrity of the bracket, creates a nice spot to mount the can low and gives easy access to it for service. Super happy with that install.
Took way more time that I wanted, but I'm super happy with the results. The lines are backwards incase someone notices. I'll need to switch them before I fire up the motor.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126179790_3320daf00f_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124806887_ef77088a97_b.jpg)
Then my last parts showed up. I had a buddy from Florida help me out and welded my brick for me. Shipped it there and back safely so that made me happy. Brian did a great job, thanks again man! For those that don't know, the stock intercooler bricks can collapse from boost even under stock psi. So it's really important to reinforce them, but especially if you overdrive the supercharger like I did.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126179715_ccb29a033d_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51124807107_40ec5c7355_b.jpg)
Then the PLM heat exchanger came in. I've seen a few guys run this in a first gen Camaro one of which was an RS so I know it fits well. I'm going to copy what the RS guy did so I already know how I'm going to mount it. Just need to make a bracket.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125372711_893d549008_b.jpg)
I also opted to use the GM Synchromesh which is supposed to be the best for the TR6060 and T56 Magnum's.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125367776_5b82f05194_b.jpg)
Now that the intercooler brick was here I didn't waste any time and got that installed Friday night. Then I kept grabbing parts off my bench and before I knew it, the motor was completely assembled and final torqued.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125278773_a8e2febfcb_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126179210_3c01bf15fa_b.jpg)
I'm getting so excited now! My punch list is getting very short and I'm really down to finishing some wiring for the ECU/Fuel pump, bolting my exhaust back on, fill/top off all fluids, prime the motor and send it! I'm hoping to get a few nights in the garage this week and turn the key next weekend.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Looking nice Ryan, Im sure you cant wait until you can get that beast out on the road!
-
Great progress! That will truly be a really awesome car!,
Jim
-
Awesome progress Ryan.
Very impressive attention to details
JT
-
Thanks guys. I got a little more work done wiring up the fuel pump controller and I'm nearly finished with that install. Just need to crimp on a few terminals and loom the wiring. I need to build a little bracket for my flex fuel sensor and after I make a few new fuel lines my fuel system will be complete.
-
And I get the motivation to put a screw in my door handle pull :shock:
-
You're funny Kerry. :lol:
I had to pull my tank one last time since I forgot to add a grounding wire to the fuel tank. I got that installed and added a metri-pack connector to for the fuel level sensor so that I can pull the tank quickly if needed. I added a ground wire from from the main battery wire feed for the fuel pump.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132195534_ff2e62d78d_b.jpg)
Got the tank back in and all the connections made. So glad that I added that trap door.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51130741082_7068d82029_b.jpg)
8 ga wire that splits into the two feeds for the fuel pump. Should be minimal voltage drop from the battery.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51131417376_a49e65a73f_b.jpg)
The fuel pump module is all done and installed. I'm waiting on some connectors so I still need to hook up the MAP - and MAP signal wires, as well as looming the wiring. But as is, it will control the fuel pump but without those wires it won't be boost referenced.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132194344_c57087d9ba_b.jpg)
Before I loom up the engine wiring I wanted to hook everything up to confirm that I don't have any wiring or sensor issues. All the wiring, headers, and coils are now installed on the car. I do need to make a few little clearance dents for the plug wires and access to the plugs. I also bought a longer throttle cable so that I can route it a little more neatly than how it is currently. Otherwise the motor is pretty much in the final stage of assembly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51131627678_6b3b46f947_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132523135_31b53eb757_b.jpg)
Hopefully this is helpful for someone out there, but these are the belts I used for the 2.5" upper pulley and the stock CTS-V accessories with the ICT low mount Alternator.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51131629173_9ce17b451f_b.jpg)
I then moved my attention to the heat exchanger. This was the largest one that I could find that would work with everything in the stock location. I had considered getting a larger exchanger and having some fittings welded to it, but that didn't work out. It would physically fit in the space, but with the hood latch and center brace installed it was clear I would need some major modifications. This exchanger is still much larger than the stock CTS-V and with the upgraded circulation pump, I should be ok. I'll keep an eye on my IAT's once I get the car up and running.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125372711_893d549008_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51131417186_c98af40d3a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51130740937_6cb324a0e4_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132190544_94339061b5_b.jpg)
I'm having a little trouble figuring out how I want to mount my coolant circulation pump in order to maximize the flow while keeping it accessible for servicing. I need to get the exchanger final mounted before I can find a final mounting spot. I also found out recently that the pump actually can be run off of PWM. Pin A is ground, B not used, C is PWM+ signal, and D is 12v Ignition. Most people tie the C and D pins together which makes the pump run at 100% duty cycle. My thought is that I can use Holley to control the circulation and use IAT's as my trigger to increase the duty cycle. For now I'm going to wire it for the pump to run 100% because I just want to get the car up and running right now, but this is a project for later this summer I think. I still need to do more research since Holley only has a PWM- output, so getting the PWM- signal to PWM+ is my homework.
If I can get out into the garage tonight I'm pretty sure that I can start the car tomorrow!
-
Much respect man. This swap is a lot more work than I initially thought it was going to be but you’ve hit it out of the park.
-
Much respect man. This swap is a lot more work than I initially thought it was going to be but you’ve hit it out of the park.
Thanks! You and me both. In my mind I was pretty much thinking slap the LSA on and make some boost. Lots of little parts and things to think through.
-
I would like to have you in my shop for a long weekend. I know my car would be on the road before you left.
-
Haha, thanks Kerry, How was Carlisle?
Close but no cigar... I worked from 8 - 2am Friday night and didn't quite get it all finished up. I probably could have gotten it to the point of firing this weekend if I chose to not install the flex fuel sensor now. I went back and forth because I don't "need" it, but it's something I eventually want to play with. It would be a huge PITA to do it when the hood is back on so I bit the bullet.
I wanted to focus on getting the fuel system finished up, so the flex fuel sensor was next up on that list. Like always, I mocked it up with cardboard first, then used my final material. Version 1.0 I was planning on using two small bolts to hold on the bracket, but after getting it fit up in there, I realized that I could use one of the mounting studs off of the brake booster and it would give me more clearance around everything.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139777881_f777ecb143_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139100952_5af12e3e79_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139100407_d99af64b22_b.jpg)
The fuel lines are always a discussion, but I've been very happy with using the Nylon fuel lines and Dorman fittings. Here's how I've always done them and have had great success. Caulk gun method requires you to use a two post caulk gun and a brake flare tool. It really couldn't be any easier. If it's your first time doing it, I'd suggest using a practice piece to make sure you have the right clamping force and pressure. Position the fuel line in the brake flare tool, use the fitting to measure the correct depth so you can have the right amount of stick out, make sure the line and fitting are both centered in the caulk gun, then slowly press the fitting in. I pressed mine in dry, but you could also use a window cleaner or something that would evaporate to make the press a little easier. If you get the right amount of clamping pressure there is minimal amount of marks left by the brake flare tool. I used a little heat to form the tighter bends around the wiper motor and it was a perfect fit! Very happy with the install.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139774411_bf5fe32e05_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139991258_f3a382eea0_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139990073_ea87be9625_b.jpg)
Fuel system is now fully plumbed and wired up. I bought 10 gallons of fresh 93 octane so I'll fill the tank and then I can check for leaks. Now I can move onto the heat exchanger install. I welded a few flange nuts to the core support and drilled a few holes into the aluminum angle iron to hold it to the car. Then after shuffling the heat exchanger around side to side, I found the best position for functionality and aesthetics. I wanted it both centered in the grill, and also not interfere with the RS headlight doors or the center mount. Once I was happy I drilled the holes for the HX mounts.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139774746_9b3eb97273_b.jpg)
The HX will be leaned back about 1/2" in, but for the picture was leaned forward.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139099037_40643c9411_b.jpg)
Lower mounts, done. Now onto the upper mounts. After scratching my head and looking for pieces of metal for inspiration I found what I needed. Sorry honey, we don't need this shelf anymore. Haha. Hot rodding at it's finest. These little brackets were perfect for what I needed. I'm so happy with the way that they turned out. I literally just put a few bends in them and tweaked slightly and they fit like it was made for this application. The two HX mounting holes on each bracket were perfectly spaced, just needed to be slightly drilled out. I had targeted a hole on the upper core support and the hole on the bracket lined up and was centered perfectly!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51140547469_75171ba02e_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139986713_27ea17b8f2_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139772781_364032e512_b.jpg)
I figured that I got lucky on the first one and it would take more effort to mirror the second one. The car gods were looking out for me and I matched the same angle as the passenger side and it fit identical to the other side!! I was so shocked that it worked out that nicely for me. That had to be one of the easiest jobs I've done on this car.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51140874505_95d07e8bfa_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139985723_cbeed8ef8d_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139985803_0221432b8d_b.jpg)
Then I reinstalled the radiator. I love bolting on existing parts. A few bolts and one wiring connector. Lower hose was the same, but I'll need a new upper to be made/bought.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51140873365_a513d3afe4_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139770161_8eb5ecbe04_b.jpg)
I also had to figure out what to do with the booster hose. The ZL1 hose I bought is 1/2", but the booster fitting I have is 3/8". After looking around my garage I found a cap that just happened to have the same OD as the ID of the 1/2" hose. So I cut the end off of it and installed the sleeve. The hose also was a two piece design with a coupler in the middle. So shortened center of the hose and put it all back together. Couldn't ask for better fitment.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139984753_7cee88d2a3_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139094127_8f4285b7d1_b.jpg)
I was able to reuse my metal tube for the CAI by shortening it by ~5" and tweaked the mount slightly and it worked like it did with my LS1. I just had to use the 45 degree coupler vs the 90 degree I used before. I think the filter on it now is 6" which could be a restriction so I'm planning to eventually by a 8" or 9" Green Filter. But for now I want to get the car up and running. Easy change later.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139768721_52cfd4c133_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139094227_bc6f11c14b_b.jpg)
I also was playing around with the wiring a bit to see what all needed to be addressed. I wanted to get everything hooked up to confirm that it all functions before I tuck it all up and make it tidy. I've been there before where there is a problem and you have to undo the nice clean work... I built my own 2 pin to 4 pin CAN adapter for my Holley harness, but I built mine from a splitter I bought on eBay. Nicely built splitter, almost a shame to cut it up. I needed the splitter though since I'll be using both my 3.5" touchscreen, USB cable and the Dakota Digital CAN signal for the gauges.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139778261_4dc1b53611_b.jpg)
Looks like a terrible mess, but in reality is very close to being done.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51139777951_77efe004c8_b.jpg)
I was so happy when I fit my exhaust up that it will clear my new driveshaft. I was thinking I may have to modify it, but so glad I don't have to. I'm really down to some really basic things before I can get fire up the car. Biggest thing is where I want to mount the HX pump and then routing the coolant lines. After that I need to button up some wiring, fill all fluids, bleed my clutch, build/buy a new upper radiator hose, prime the oil pump, and turn the key. I'll plug away at these things this week and maybe I'll take Friday afternoon off.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Also thought I'd post this up since I had a question about it before. There is a square stock that I welded to the bottom side of the bracket so that it won't rotate.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51146001040_6808e1a166_b.jpg)
-
Nice work. I like the brackets you made, looks like something I would/have done.
-
Nice work. I like the brackets you made, looks like something I would/have done.
You guys got me beat. It’s better than I would do. My hand at custom parts/work isn’t too impressive :lol:
-
Thanks man, I appreciate that. It's certainly been a juggling act and most importantly, I have a very understanding wife.
Last Friday night I made a big push to button up all of the remaining items on my punch list. The biggest thing was mounting my heat exchanger pump and routing all of the lines without kinking them. I've been thinking about the placement of the lines for about a week now and finally am happy with this location. By mounting it here I didn't need to drill any holes in the core support and the hoses had a sweeping angles so there aren't any hard turns or kinks.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154569582_a88a88a677_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155473378_cc999acac4_b.jpg)
The BMW CWA50 pump uses a quick connect fitting for the inlet, which I was able to source from RockAuto. It was for a heater hose off of a 2005ish VW Golf.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155411573_caf6b15638_b.jpg)
Then I routed all of the hoses as neatly as I could.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155415858_c37c66d96d_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155176391_bd45b33291_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155411533_61229aeb59_b.jpg)
Then after final fitment, I realized that I needed to notch the center support bracket just slightly so the heat exchanger bracket I made would fit better.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155175956_ba75a3b130_b.jpg)
I painted and reinstalled the upright supports for the heat exchanger. Then reinstalled the center support, horn and hood latch.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154507097_71bab9f9a1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155962129_6e82d81808_b.jpg)
I got some black annodized check valves, 3:1 heat shrink with glue, and an assorted clamp set to finish things up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155175731_030204234c_b.jpg)
I'm not sure if it's 100% needed, but I also bought this inline PCV valve that was recommended by Holley per their instructions for their tall valve covers. I may end up removing it since I also have one in my valley cover.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51156284885_1906bf8d8a_b.jpg)
Then it was time to fill or top off all of my fluids. Trans, rear diff, PS pump, and the engine. Not sure if it was entirely necessary, but I used this crazy contraption to pump oil into the galleys. It's hard to say if it worked or not and it was certainly messy.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155410208_51c6620792_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51155174771_0e287ee925_b.jpg)
Then I got everything plugged back in and realized that my GM oil pressure sensor was junk... I figured it was a long shot since it was a used sensor. I ordered two sensors from Lowdollar Motorsports and they showed up really quickly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154505657_916ceb5222_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51158381440_56bccceacd_b.jpg)
After working all night Friday and a few hours Saturday morning now it was time. I set up my base tune, all the fluids were topped off and everything was as ready as it could be. Finally turned the key and it coughed a few times and nothing. Just would crank, no fire. After walking away for a day and coming back I was able to determine that it was a user error. I somehow flipped the odd and even coil connectors so the engine was the equivalent of being 180* out on a motor with a distributor. I didn't have enough time Sunday to work on it any further, but after flipping those quickly on my lunchbreak yesterday, I tried again with success! What a great feeling that it fired up pretty quickly once all the connections were right. I was nervous about the oil pressure since it was a brand new motor, but it came right up within 1-2 seconds and had a steady 60 psi.
https://youtu.be/soeYhoMNaeU
Now what was the biggest tease is that I had a stubborn clutch that didn't want to bleed. I had the Speedbleeder from Tick, but it still didn't want to bleed. Since the remote bleeder is so long, I just cracked the bleeder and put it in the reservoir overnight. I went out last night to button up a few coolant hose leaks I had and tried to bleed it again. Then finally after about 5 mins there was a huge bubble that came out of the bleeder and that was it. Clutch pedal was great now. I switched from the 7/8" bore that came with the Tick kit, to a 3/4" bore to make the pedal a little softer. Last year I found that the clutch was very touchy and had a very narrow window for a perfect release. I'm very happy with the slightly longer travel and not having the pressure so heavy. Should make for a much more enjoyable drive.
I cleaned everything up and snapped a few pictures. Very pleased with the outcome. The weather is supposed to be decent at lunchtime today so I'm going to get some break in miles under my belt.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51156608997_cd71e36f57_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51158380730_9356d358b2_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51156608072_3bb64e6f38_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51157510063_dbbd8829f9_b.jpg)
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Aw man, that is awesome! You have one radical car there, great job. Can't wait for the test drive report and seat of the pants dyno!
-
I agree FormTA. Amazing job and great effort on Ryan's part to complete this over a winter.
-
Ryan,
Congratulations on getting it running. You have done an incredible amount of engineering getting your motor to fit and work in this car. Performance should be wild. Can't wait to see and hear more.
-
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I am happy to report that I was able to take the car out on the maiden voyage with the new drivetrain. Since I'm still working from home I was able to get the car out for 20 mins or so on my lunchbreak. Keep in mind that the motor is a fresh rebuild so I need to take it easy for the first few hundred miles. Although I have a buddy who brought up a good point. When you buy a crate motor, or any of the engine rebuilders, they break the motor in for about 15-20 mins., then put it right on the engine dyno for full WOT pulls. He's built hundreds of motors and helped with countless others at a big shop down in Charlotte. So I trust what he says, but still made me nervous haha.
That said, I didn't take the car over 4k rpms this time. I was listening for any strange motor sounds, driveline vibrations, watching the oil pressure, watching IAT's (can get very hot because of the supercharger), watching coolant temp, feeling out the transmission, shifting gears, getting a feel for the new clutch and etc. I'm happy to report that the oil pressure cold was about 60 psi, and warm idle was around 35 psi. Right where I wanted them to be. IAT's were higher than I'd like, so I need to check into that. Coolant also got warmer than I'd like at around 200-205. Fans come on around 195, and before with the LS1 it would hit about 198 and then drop to 185 pretty quickly. I think there may be a bubble in the motor somewhere.
The transmission was also something I have been worried about since I tore it completely down. I'm happy to report that it shifts great, and the Hurst Blackjack shifter makes for an incredibly short shift. That is something I need to get used to. It's about a ~3" throw, which is much different than the Pro 5.0 that I had last year. I also now know what everyone means by the T56 being a notchy transmission. Whenever I would change gears last year there was always this little mechanical "notch" that you would feel before you went into a gear. 4th gear in particular had a notch that was more pronounced and would actually grind occasionally which I think was a bad synchro. This year is completely different. Gear shifts are buttery smooth and it just slides into gear. I'm so happy that I didn't seriously mess something up when I re-assembled as well as that the trans was healthy since it was a used unit. VERY happy about that. The transmission shifting is so smooth with the gear shifts which is something I pleasantly surprised with.
Another thing that I changed was something I had planned on doing regardless of my engine/trans swap. I am running a 4th gen Camaro clutch master kit from Tick and when you get it from them it comes with a 7/8" bore Tilton unit. While this makes for a short throw, it makes the clutch pedal more stiff and also made for a very narrow window for a smooth gear change. I swapped it out for a 3/4" unit that added ~1.5" to the throw, but is so much more enjoyable to shift gears. The sweet spot for clutch engagement is wider so it takes less thought to shift smoothly as well as a more stock feeling pedal feel. I'd say it's only slightly more stiff than "stock", but it's to be expected with a twin disk clutch.
So far I've only had one leak, which was an easy fix since it was just a coolant hose. Needed a different hose clamp since the one I had was a little wonky. My diff isn't leaking which is a huge win!
Overall I couldn't be happier with my first outing, and my first impressions are that this is going to be a beast of a car. I kept running out of gear when I would hit the throttle. I have a lot of work to do on my tune, but the engine would pull hard. Chirps the tires without trying to. :shock: It's really going to be a handful, and I like that.
It's funny I'm relived that the car is back up and running again, but now I have a laundry list of things that I need to do to get the car running better.
Figure out why the coolant temp is getting higher
Why I have higher IAT's ~60 degrees over ambient
Lower the fuel pressure. Since I have 850cc injectors for when I run flex fuel, I lowered to 43psi in the tune, but my actual is about 65-67psi.
It surges at idle when hot, so I need to adjust the blade position and/or adjust the IAC settings
Integrate VSS into the tune so that I can have the reverse lockout function like stock. Right now I have it set to activate when the TPS is under 2%, but when I lift to shift it was open, so that's not good. I think I'll add a secondary condition to something like MAP input.
General cleanup of the tune
Need to replace my battery. It is weak and didn't want to re-start.
That's all I have for now. Hope to get some real seat time this weekend.
-
Wow is all I can say
-
Thanks! I'm glad to be driving it again. I lowed the timing by several degree's and it made a huge difference. Idles very cleanly now. :cool:
-
Ok, time for an update! I've mostly been driving the car and tweaking my tunes to get the car to perform how I want it. I'm no professional by any stretch of the imagination, but I've got the car running pretty good. One little detail was just not right for me however. The engine wasn't building boost the way that I was expecting and to be honest, I was a little disappointed. It didn't want to build any boost over 100 kpa (0 psi, WOT, or atmosphere) in gears 1, 2, or 3. It would start to build about 4-5 psi in 4th gear, and I would see full boost 11-12 psi (180ish KPA) in 5th and 6th. While glad to see the boost numbers, the upper gears aren't ideal for building the boost on the street. After spending hours reading on the internet and the owner of Boost District, Roshan and I did a video chat. Can't say enough good things about that customer service, especially since I wasn't even a customer of his! Would direct anyone to his site if you are thinking of an LSA supercharger, or parts for one.
During the chat he had me do a few diagnostic checks and confirmed that everything was functioning correctly. I was leaning toward it, but he was convinced that it was a weak bypass valve that was causing the issue. Basically anytime the vacuum drops below about 70kpa, the motor should be building boost. That generally comes on right off of idle around 1200-1500 rpm.
I bought a new Bypass valve and compared it with the old one. While the old one looked to be in good shape, the spring tension on the new was noticeably more stiff and did hold the vacuum better. I got it installed Saturday afternoon and took it around the block for a test drive. Now, with the old bypass the thought went through my mind, "What is all the fuss over these superchargers?". After the new fully functioning bypass installed I totally understand what the fuss is all about. It felt like a completely different car and was blowing the tires on command. I was starting to build boost right off of idle, and would quickly ramp up to 200 kpa (14psi) in any gear now. What a simple fix and what a night and day difference! I only got a chance to do a quick drive, but what a difference that made. I'm not 110% happy with this swap, and is fully meeting my expectations of what the LSA supercharger would do. Time to change my pants and get more seat time, haha.
Earlier in the week I was browsing the Holley FB posts and came across a guy selling a Terminator X Max ECU and wideband sensor for not much more than a new stock X ECU. Both were new and never installed because he immediately upgraded to Dominator. I sent him a message and he came down on his price even more, so I bought it. When I first bought my Terminator X, I didn't go with the X Max because I had no plans to go DBW or Auto trans, but what I didn't realize until afterwards that you can easily use the speed sensor input for the auto trans for the T56. The trouble with the VSS signal with the T56 is that Holley won't read a VR sine wave signal, but would need a square wave signal to read properly. But the X Max can read that signal. What it is important for me is now I can easily use an output to control my Reverse Lockout. I can also now upgrade to use the DBW throttlebody in the future. I have the pedal and TB, just need the harness to complete.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51199728211_9562f36aa9_b.jpg)
Here is a J4 connector and pins so that I can give Holley the VSS signal from my trans. I also found out that pin B17 is an input for the trans temperature and because my TR6060 hybrid trans has a temp sensor on it, I'm going to tap into it and see if it will read properly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51200794370_e0bfbf22ef_b.jpg)
When I build my glove box panel, it was just big enough for the base X ECU, but the X Max is a little over 2" longer so I had to modify my panel. It's not pretty, but it is hidden. Had to drill some holes to access the upper mounting holes for the ECU.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51199017317_6700c68375_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51200507514_ef1624f06a_b.jpg)
All tucked away and reinstalled. It took a little bit of playing around, but I got the settings right to have the ECU read speed and the reverse lockout functions just like stock. Love that!!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51200793130_ecab440f0e_b.jpg)
I also ordered a set of 3" mandrel bent tailpipes for 67-69 Camaro hoping that they would be able less work to bolt in. Wrong, they didn't even come close with my mufflers. Now I need to decide if I want to get new mufflers and then make it all work, or add these tailpipes to what I have now. Flowmaster super 60's. My car sounds amazing, but is just too loud. I need to quiet it way down. Any muffler suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Leaning towards Hooker Aeroflow.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51199725811_0dc63e8734_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51200506049_34ef678144_b.jpg)
Lastly for this update, I noticed after my drive Saturday that my shifter is now leaking... It's a Hurst Blackjack shifter and I love the feel of how it shifts and is very precise. I'm going to call them to see what can be done to fix this leak. I think it's coming up the seal and into the top cup. It's on top of the shifter plate, so I'm confident it's not the shifter base seal. The top plate comes off with 4 allen keys, so I'm going to pull that off and see if I can possibly clean it up and seal with silicone or what Holley tech has to say.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51200791125_14972f0c0c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51199727421_c5f54bdd89_b.jpg)
Hopefully I can get my mufflers quieted down, seats bolted back in and can take the family out for a cruise. I have about 30 more miles before I change out the break in oil and cut open the oil filter. The motor feels really tight, but I want to cut the filter just to know what's going on inside the motor.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Ryan,
Great news on getting the boost issued cleared up.
Your dedication to this project is awesome
JT
-
I would say I'd like a ride but I think I would be scared!
-
Nice job mounting the ECU and fuse panel where the glove box used to be. Good that the ECU is not in a harsh environment. You must be all smiles with the boost issues resolved. One heck of a thrill ride now. Be careful!
-
I have nothing intelligent to add here but I must say that it is such an awesome setup. I'm excited to see some track numbers!!
We are going to see some track numbers right?
-
Thanks guys. I'm pretty stoked that I've resolved that boost issue as well. I'll be honest when I first had it going I was a little disappointed, but now I understand what all the fuss is about. It's crazy fun.
Luke, anytime you want to come up I'll take you for a ride haha
Charlie, I'd love to take it down the dragstrip sometime. I have to drive 1+ hours for the closest one, but it would be fun to see what kind of times I could get. What I really want to do is take it to a road course. I have a buddy that does one in his Miata and I think I'll be running at a private course towards the end of the summer.
-
That'll be a blast for yeah!!
-
I went back and read your entire thread today and congratulations on all your hard work. That motor looks really clean and nice in that engine bay!
They say that all the Tremec rail transmissions have a notchy feel. I have the APT white lightening shifter and the shifting is great. I have read good things about the Blackjack shifters. That is some type of seal issue.
Some of the guys I know with Corvettes are looking to install a supercharger like that. They seem to fit in well and give a big power boost. I am glad you figured out that valve problem. Who would have thought of that?
I am probably going to have to add a hydraulic clutch with the engine swap to BBC. I will look for a 3/4" unit as I want light pressure.
You will always have a punch list when you first get things up and running. You have certainly dealt with everything else so I sure it won't take you long!
-
Thanks Bob, I appreciate the compliments! The list seems to never end haha
It took a little longer than I hoped to get an update, but I finally was able to get things complete enough to take it for a test drive last night. All I can say is WOW. When that boost comes on it just pulls so hard. Right now I think it does more of blowing the tires off, but I'm ok with that for now. I'd like to get a sticker set of 275 tires to see what happens when that power gets to the ground! I need to be careful because last night I punched it in 4th and when I got out of it I was over 100 mph! It went from 50 to 100 very quickly. I don't think I ever posted a picture of the new bypass valve. Brand new from GM.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51219319322_b81c42cb5f_b.jpg)
After the test drive I doublechecked to see if my fix for the leaky shifter worked, and I'm happy to report no more leaks! I had to take apart the top shifter assembly and diagnose why it was leaking in the first place. I popped off the top cover and took apart the upper assembly that holds the fulcrum.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51220030071_63b7d49f1c_b.jpg)
Here you can see that it was leaking all around that bottom plate and appears to come out on the right side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51220797209_a3f238833c_b.jpg)
Upon further inspection, it appears that there was some thread sealant that wasn't allowing that to sit flush against the lower plate.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51221084475_41d207a996_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51220776849_4f210709da_b.jpg)
So I cleaned that all off and dabbed a tiny amount of silicone around the fulcrum base when I reinstalled. I also added some thread tape to the four bolts that attach the upper and lower together. Just a little added insurance since they protrude into the trans case and are exposed to fluid.
While this was all happening I also needed to quiet down the car. While it sounded fantastic with the Flowmaster 50's, it would make my ears ring after every drive. So they had to go if I wanted anyone in my family to ride with me. After a bunch of sound clips, research and feedback from car buddies, I decided on a pair of Borla ProXS with a 14" case. They were significantly smaller than the 50's that came off of the car so I was actually able to tuck up my exhaust a little higher than before. I had to trim about 4" off of the pipes that come right before the mufflers to push them forward for a better approach to install the tail pipes. Minor modification, but necessary.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51221083700_5827eb9f91_b.jpg)
Next up was a pair of 3" Mandrel bent tail pipes from Flowmaster. While they didn't fit out of the box, I think that was completely my fault as I build my own exhaust from scratch. My mufflers are at an angle while the tail pipes are straight. So I just had to make a small cut to give the angle needed for my exhaust. My new band saw made quick work of that and gave a straight cut to just turn and weld.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51219296307_0304bf85d1_b.jpg)
The passenger side fit up really nicely and gave me plenty of room around the leaf and quarter panel. The driver side ended up being about 2" more rearward, so I ended up cutting it out of a straight section I had to match the passenger. Got it all welded up and re-installed. I still need to trim a little bit off of the end, but I'm very happy with the placement. I'm also debating on leaving it as is, or cutting it at an angle to match the quarter panel. For now I'm going to leave it straight and see how I feel about it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51220008086_93dbc32a3b_b.jpg)
Now for full transparency, the exhaust hangers are not finished, but I they are currently secured to the chassis. I am using the same rubber isolator mounts from before that are solid, but will need to be modified for the new location of the mufflers. The tail pipes may or may not be held up with mechanics wire, but I'll never tell... I have some proper hangers on order now, so once they come in I'll be able to get a final position for the tail pipes so I can get the tips just right.
Next up is to get my wiring cleaned up, the interior completely reinstalled and put some miles on her. Oh and maybe give it a bath haha.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Congrats on all the progress. From here it seems like that was way quicker than I thought it would take. I'm stoked to see you've got it on the road. That's awesome.
We definitely need to get together sometime later this summer. I can't wait to meet your '69 in person. I love boost, but have never had a supercharged car. Only turbos, which I understand is quite a different feeling. I think I rode in a first gen Camaro with a big 6-71 blower (or whatever those big ones with that require a bug catcher through the hood are) once...I was like 13 at the time. IIRC it was like my brother's fiance's neighbor's car. It scared the crap out of me!
-
He says that was slow... It took me 5 years once I really got started on mine but I took it apart and started work on it about 20 years ago... Ryan doesn't mess around. His Camaro build took what?, one year? And the supper charger a winter project. I thought he'd have it ready by fall, I should have known.... It's his constant progression that motivates me to get my butt in gear and get my projects moving. He was a great help and motivator on my TA project and once I get these darn flares done I'll star my Camaro project. Keep up the good work Ryan! That is an awesome car and even better that it's a family car in more ways than one.
-
I didn't think that shifter leak was anything serious. The tailpipe area is always the toughest on exhaust. I have the Borla XS Pro mufflers and like them. Let us know what you think.
Yeah, everyone has home and family to compete with car progress. I have been in home repair land for 3 weeks solid. But Ryan really has gotten a lot accomplished.
-
Awesome work, Ryan!
-
Thanks guys! Pretty stoked to have the families approval for the new mufflers! I took the whole family out early yesterday a few times around the block and my wife said "I wished we had drove for longer" Well get ready honey haha. I'll start checking out the car shows now!!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V063nUHHJfw
Not the greatest video, but they sound really good. Maybe it's just going to take some getting used to, but inside the car doesn't have the greatest sound. But when my dad sat in the car and revved it for me, darn did it sound amazing. Although it doesn't sound as good in the cabin as I was thinking, it's significantly quieter. I think that the tradeoff is well worth it.
-
Well that put a smile on my face!!
sounds awesome
-
Thanks Charlie! Almost ready to call it done for the summer :shock:
-
Thanks Charlie! Almost ready to call it done for the summer :shock:
I like this statement! Good job man!
-
It's been a few weeks since I posted. Finally took some time to clean up the wiring and tuck it nicely under the dash. I also installed the Custom Auto Sound radio that I picked up. It sounds great and I loaded it up with 1k songs and a flash drive for cruising. It sounds really good and looks way better than that double din unit I had under the dash last year.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262408254_6607b2f554_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262708290_a4779476aa_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51260937097_9c673eab6a_b.jpg)
I got all of my oil around to do my first oil change on the new motor. I've driven it around 200 miles on the break-in oil and decided it was time to get that oil out of there. At the suggestion of many of my friends who build motors, I wanted to cut the filter open to see what debris it collected. So I bought a used pipe cutter on eBay that would cut up to a 3" pipe. It was way cheaper than the dedicated filter cutters that I found. Not pretty, but I like the patina on it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262408864_7ddc2d6dc4_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262708980_05ed6cb5cf_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262408569_95b09bbef9_b.jpg)
Unfortunately, I started having problems (I think coincidentally) after I installed my tailpipes. The car was running great, but then slowly started to develop a strange AFR spike. Almost like someone was turning a switch on and off. It would be cruising along at 14.7 right where I commanded it, then spike to 22+ and the car would nose over slightly. Give it throttle and it would clear up, but as soon as you drop down to a normal 5-10% TPS, it would start doing that again. I thought it was in my tune, but after logging it and checking things out, I think I have a hardware issue.
I pulled the plugs and understandably they were all indicating rich. Since it was dumping fuel to compensate for that lean condition. Plug 2 looks cleaner because I cleaned it off. All the others were as removed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51261658571_eda2c58c41_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262708560_6f7d49130a_b.jpg)
Now I think this may have been unrelated, but I found that Cylinder 7 had the strap pushed down and not sure if was even delivering spark. Would explain the fuel smell I have had especially at idle. But this was on the driver's side and my wideband is on the passenger side. So this wouldn't have explained the lean issue I was having.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51262408339_c53861130e_b.jpg)
At this point, I'm leaning towards a clogged/bad injector. I need to pull them out and inspect. I'm really hoping that is the case and not something deeper in the motor... Here is a screenshot of the log that I took where you can see it going crazy. The yellow line is where Closed Loop was turning on and off. As soon as it transitions the compensation spikes. The upper red line is AFR which is happy and where it should be, then something happens and the middle of the chart it spikes over 20 AFR.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51260937662_ff115afce5_b.jpg)
Hopefully I can get this figured out soon. I'm missing out on some prime cruising weather. On a good note, I've officially fixed all the leaks on the car. I had a leaking pinion ever since I put the car together, but when I replaced the yoke, new seal and sealed the splines it hasn't leaked a drop. I also got the shifter leak fixed, and the few coolant leaks fixed. Hopefully I get this fueling issue fixed and I'll be back in business. I've got some brand new NKG plugs for when I get this straightened out. For now I'm just going to re-use these one's so I don't contaminate a fresh set.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
I'm back with an update and bearing good news. I found the source of my troubles! I had a bad spark plug wire where it contacts the spark plug. The terminal didn't "click" into place like it should normally and was loose fitting on the plug. It was a brand new spare MSD wire I had on the shelf and it was the last one I would have suspected. I test fit another spare I had and it clicked on tightly, so I swapped that one onto the car. I also installed the new spark plugs and it runs great, just like it did before. But the greatest thing is my fuel smell is almost completely gone now. I must have been running with that dead cylinder this whole time assuming it was my tune up. So word to the wise, check your plugs! The strange thing is I did check the header tubes and they were all hot enough to boil water when I sprayed them. I guess I need a thermal IR gun to confirm in the future.
Here is a comparison of the NGK BR7EF plugs to the Denso that I had in it. You can see how much taller the Denso is. I did use a borescope to check out the cylinders and pistons, especially Cylinder 8 where I had that damaged plug. I saw zero damage and nothing unusual. That was a huge relief.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51271074500_05d2d53541_b.jpg)
In the meantime before I figured out it was the plug wire, I bought this neat little kit online that allows you to clean your injectors. It's a little adapter that goes on top of a carb/brake clean can and has a hole fit for an injector. It also came with a little harness with gator clips to activate the injector. I confirmed that I had a clean spray pattern on all the injectors, but I suppose it was good preventative maintenance if anything. It was super cheap on Amazon, $12.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51269301772_3f27583e21_b.jpg)
I also forgot to share my father's day gift from the family. Some new Astrovents for my dash. The one's I have in there now are originals that look ok from a few feet away, but didn't work well and were pealing. These will make for a nice upgrade!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51261863343_5943a29ba7_b.jpg)
Now that the car is back on the road and firing on all 8 cylinders, it is an absolute blast to drive. It didn't seem to give a clean sweep from idle up and always had a little gas smell. With the new plugs (ordered some new plug wires too, but they are on the way) it was really easy to tuned up. Since I was having issues, I started with a fresh fuel table and a revised AFR table. It only took a few minutes of driving around for the fuel learning to kick in and it cleaned up really nicely. I thought I was happy with the tune before, but I'm way happier now. It runs really well now. Very responsive and idles perfectly. In my driving around I was able to clean up a slight bog off idle which was my only real issue I had before. On the way home I got a little brave and goosed it around a truck. Was going around 60 at the time, but to my surprise when I downshifted it broke the tires loose! This newfound power is definitely going to take some getting used to. Next on the list is a set of sticky tires!
I'm hoping to change the oil tonight and get it cleaned up for a car show in town. I've shared with a few people the issues that I was having with my Dad's 71 Chevelle and we finally figured that out with his car about a month ago. So this is the first time that we both have running/driving cars and can attend a show at the same time. Really stoked to park our cars next to one another. I'll post some pictures after the show.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
I just read your whole thread Really cool project. You did a Great job!
I am curious as too how much power that Monster makes?
-
Thanks Dennis! It's been a lot of work, but I'm incredibly happy with the way it turned out. Not sure on power, but I'd estimate that it at least 600 whp. :cool:
-
Ryan,
I am very happy to hear your engine problem was only a bad plug wire. With such a powerful engine I can see how you might not even notice it was a little down on power. After all the hours you put into this project hopefully you can just enjoy driving it for a while.
I agree that EFI is really nice from a drivability standpoint. They seem to do a good job tuning on their own. If you want to play with the AFR it sure is a lot less work than playing with a carburetor.
-
You are correct, the Holley EFI does a great job of learning the fuel curves. What I've learned from working on both my car and my Dad's (He's running Terminator EFI which is a 4150 carb replacement) is that your engine and wiring has to be right before you can start tuning. Don't immediately blame the EFI because when you do all the prep work on the motor and wiring, it does a fantastic job.
Great news is that my dad and I were able to make the car show and it was uneventful. No tow trucks, or any funny business. Both of our cars are running great and it was really cool having him there with me. My little guy helped me get the car all cleaned up so that was a fun time with him. I put some water in that spray bottle and he emptied it twice on the car and wheels.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51276440498_e09222d900_b.jpg)
I completely forgot to get some pictures, but one of my dad's friends was there and took pictures of all the cars. They sent them to us thankfully, but aren't full resolution.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277003204_f911d18b73_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51276443358_0e634b5d54_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51275521962_905d591850_b.jpg)
My son loved checking out this firetruck that was there.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51276440373_758c87440c_b.jpg)
I already bought the upper radiator hose to replace the makeshift one that I bought to get the car up and running. When I was at the show, I had no less than 6 people mention that my upper hose was weeping. Well that was it, time to replace that hose.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277296415_2bfba02261_b.jpg)
Much better!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277296415_2bfba02261_b.jpg)
I also cleaned up the engine bay and snapped some pictures. Here's the engine bay all detailed and in it's final form. The only changes that I may make in the future may be some cooling modifications for the supercharger's heat exchanger. Some ducting to direct air across the heat exchanger, a possible rework of the mounts that will integrate in a dedicated cooling fan and adding a larger reservoir.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277541915_6b9562376a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277244629_43bfb45686_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277244574_81a976cf39_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51277244549_d89db21cc2_b.jpg)
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Good stuff. I bet it was cool for the kids to go to a car show with dad and grandpa. I’m glad you got that spark plug wire figured out. That’s awesome you get to play with the Holley efi on an LS and a traditional V8.
-
x2 Looks like you were able to have some good family time.
-
Its nice having a car that you can trust taking anywhere, looks like a good time.
-
Thanks Jonathan, Kerry and Jack. It's really nice just hoping into the car and taking the family for a ride.
Here's a few updates from when the site was down.
I finally got around to doing my first oil change to change out the break-in oil and assess for any bad news. I'll be honest I was kinda dreading this and put it off. I was pleasantly surprised to find no major metal shavings or chunks in the oil. To be expected after all new bearings, there was a slight amount of glitter in the filter, but nothing in the oil that I drained out.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293912828_6640bff355_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294450309_146748695b_b-1.jpg)
Then I swapped on a new matching set of plug wires to get rid of the mismatched set I had before.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293913298_5779f17624_b-1.jpg)
I made some templates out of cardboard, and modified my HX brackets to tip the whole exchanger forward.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294753120_2ebf0a6caa_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294740585_e4ceca1a7e_b-1.jpg)
Once I was happy with the fitment, I welded the brackets back together. I also removed the J-nuts that I had before and drilled/tapped the brackets so it all fit a little tighter.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294740510_907ee76489_b-1.jpg)
I was really happy with the cardboard templates, so I made some shrouds out of a spare piece of stainless plate I had.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294450574_f744ddb938_b-1.jpg)
Added some side filler plates and trimmed the upper piece up for a cleaner look.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294740385_ced7c4f07b_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293736721_ebda4650de_b-1.jpg)
Hard to get a picture of the "finished" product, but I wanted to test it out before I went and painted everything. That way if I had to modify it, I wasn't re-doing anything. Took the car out for a drive and unfortunately it didn't seem to help much at all. Slightly lower, but the temps still crept up to about 140* AND it was a cooler day than when I had the really high temps. Then I hot wired the pump like was suggested and watched everything. Well come to find out after about 3-5 minutes of running the water gets aerated! The water looks almost gray. So then I would kick the pump on and watch the water flow through the stock clear reservoir. What was happening inside is that the high volume circulation pump I have was draining the feed hose before the return could feed it more coolant. Once it all leveled out, the water became aerated. Air mixed with the water doesn't bode well for cooling. Thankfully I bought an Edelbrock reservoir a few weeks ago so I quickly hooked that up to see if this would help. Well it certainly did as ended up adding around 60oz of water even though that reservoir is only about 32oz. I kept working the hoses and shaking the HX and more and more air bubbles came out.
Went out and tested again with the newly installed reservoir and Bingo, that was the issue. Air in the system and a powerful circulation pump that was draining the lines. Oh and the JD bottle was for spill support not moral support haha.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293912803_51e3f90b62_b-1.jpg)
After letting the car idle around this is what the temps ended up being. I bumped the on/off temps for my coolant too and that seemed to help with my radiator cooling too. It was about 78* when I took that picture.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51294739880_7c7d4712bf_b-1.jpg)
Then I took the car to my favorite road, and let it spin through 3rd.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293736391_d829503bcc_b-1.jpg)
Going up my driveway I found this little guy running around. Had to chase him back into the fence haha. Sometimes I'm so glad that I have these guys as neighbors, rather than people haha.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293912643_8f54f4bfd7_b-1.jpg)
My dad and I went to another car show on the 4th that was about 20 mins away. All the temps kept in check and it was a good time. I remembered to take some pictures this time!
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293912413_667a2582b8_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51292988682_1184e076a2_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293912383_8d40fc63f9_b-1.jpg)
To top off a great day at a car show and the car running tip top, I looked down on the way home at my MPG's. Cruising around it was clocking around 20-22 mpg. I took a picture and sent it to a few of my buddies where on coast, it was clocking over 30+ mpg's haha.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/07/51293735816_69ba65666f_b-1.jpg)
Can't wait to put some more miles on it. Next Sunday I have my second AutoX event, so I'm really looking forward to that. So glad that I got all of the bugs worked out.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
After I finished up the revised shrouding, I wanted to do a "stress test" to see if my current setup could hold temperature or if I needed to upgrade to a larger/better fan. I got my wish by accident and was stuck in stand still traffic earlier this week. It was around 80* and cruising down the highway the ECT was around 190-192 with the IAT was around 95. That's where the engine temps normally ran the last two years with the LS1, so I was stoked because it was really efficiently cooling the new motor AND the IAT's are right where they should be around 20* over ambient. Well that changed when I was in stand still traffic for about 15-20 mins. I changed the fan temps to come on at 200 off at 205, so the engine temps went up to around 205 pretty quickly and the IAT just slowly gained a degree or two every minute. I had to pick up my wife from the service department for her car, and by the time I got there the engine temps were around 225 and the IAT's were 140. The temps just slowly creeped up which tells me that the fan just couldn't keep up.
I was hoping to get through the summer with this fan, but I don't want to hurt something by pinching pennies, so I picked up a low mileage take off C7 fan. Not sure if I'll try and use the stock shroud or make my own mount in my existing shroud. I want to get my hands on it and I'll make that decision later. It should be a huge difference. My cheapo eBay fan is rated around 2000 CFM, but I extremely doubt that is true. Maybe half of that. I found a company online called DeWitts who tested the stock C7 600 watt fan vs their upgraded 19" fan. The stock fan tested at 2900+ CFM at 90% duty. This should work really nicely for my needs.
-
That has to not be fun seeing those temps creep up. I’ve had that happen to me a few times. I could not believe but one time my ‘98 Trans Am started overheating when it was below 0 outside. Pulled over, popped the hood and everything looked good. When I started it back up, it got back to normal temperature. I imagine the car didn’t have enough antifreeze in the mix so maybe the fluid in the radiator froze up. Never had a problem after that with that car.
You’ll get it figured out man. Good to see you got the car going either way.
-
I'm happy to report that the C7 fan install is now complete. I really liked how my current shroud covered the entire core so I wanted to find a way that I could mount the fan assembly to it. I started by removing the shroud and then test fitting the unmodified C7 fan.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326821005_cdfc7cea54_b.jpg)
The picture makes it look bigger than it is, but it has about 3/4" on both sides of the shroud when centered. Just way too deep and needs to be trimmed down. First picture is unmodified and mocked up. Could definitely be used as is, but I wanted it to fit tighter to the radiator.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326548594_878f86f826_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325829061_59b2c8acfc_b.jpg)
Here's a close up of the motor. The 600 in there means that it's the 600 Watt version of the C7 fan. The earlier models could have come with a 500 Watt version.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326851775_d2997efb10_b.jpg)
I also debated on removing the fan from the shroud and making my own custom mount similar to what VA does with their aftermarket fan for 67-69 Camaro's. It fits nearly perfect in the 16" fan opening.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325091912_e1c4ed1cb0_b.jpg)
This is a VA shroud for my car that I saw at a Car show this past weekend. I think that is based of the Gen6 Camaros as it uses an even bigger 850 Watt fan!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325828001_c5faeeb30c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326820165_8d98112d80_b.jpg)
Problem that I didn't want to deal with was how far away from the shroud it was going to sit. I could have fabricated something, but I didn't want to do that at this point.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326031343_647f7e5802_b.jpg)
One thing that was pretty interesting was that the inside of the fan shroud has these little ribs that are the same depth the entire way around the inside of the shroud. Stock there are 4 of those ribs, so after deciding that I as going to modify the C7 shroud, I cut 2 ribs off which was about 5/8".
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325828291_a0a3c3d639_b.jpg)
With the 2 ribs cut, you can still use the stock mounting tabs, but since my radiator wasn't quite wide enough to easily use them, I decided to cut another two. Ended up being quite a bit of material that I removed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326063578_87f8bf5c44_b.jpg)
I took measurements before and after cutting and the shroud must be parallel since the measurements were the same. Width is 21 3/8", side height is 13.5" and the height at the center is 15 3/8"
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326546564_37059e7943_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326547539_5fd23f03a9_b.jpg)
Here is right before one of the final test fits. I found that in between two of the ribs for the upper part, it lined up perfectly with the upper nuts that were already on the shroud. For the rear, I found a space between two ribs, but added my own Rivnut. Really easy and mounted very solidly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326029873_dea22319d5_b.jpg)
Then I mounted up a 70 amp breaker for the fan. It draws a lot of juice and this was recommended to me by Andrew. I was able to use a little pillar and threaded a bolt I had into it for a solid mount. Very pleased with how it all came out. I had a few missing "flaps" and found a guy on a Corvette forum who had a few spares. So they are on the way, but for now I made a few temporary pieces. I'm not sure if I will end up trimming the shroud in front of the "flaps" to encourage more airflow at speed or not. I want to run it and see how it performs. If I am not getting the cooling I want I'll modify them for more airflow.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326818555_e75afc4321_b.jpg)
Installed in the car and ready to wire up. I'm really pleased with how it turned out.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326029518_773695a35b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325090122_f9c0f3ff2e_b.jpg)
I bought some more 8 ga wire, a 70 amp circuit breaker and a Yazaki connector kit (bought on eBay) with an assortment of terminals to get it all wired up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325827281_e4b70c8ae1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326548049_2a59edb10f_b.jpg)
I found that my big crimpers did a great job on the open barrel terminals once I bent them over slightly. One thing on this connector that was a little different was there is this inner white locking piece that had to be popped up in order to insert the terminals into the slots. Otherwise it was very straight forward.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51326818395_1407c389d5_b.jpg)
Used some appropriately sized terminals and glued heat shrink. I didn't get any pictures, but the ground side goes directly to the battery. The positive side goes from the connector, to the breaker, then directly to the battery. From all my research it is critical to get the appropriately sized wire for this job. You will not be able to get away with 12 ga wire. According to Spal, this wire could get hot enough to melt the connector, so make sure the wire is sufficiently sized for the job.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325089592_0177b99c98_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325089592_0177b99c98_b.jpg)
The last thing was adjusting the tune in Holley to use a PWM- signal rather than a straight ground. I tested it in the garage and it worked great. I didn't get a chance to test it as it was raining, but I'm hoping to within the next few days.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325826536_08e44547ee_b.jpg)
Thanks,
Ryan
-
Beautiful job on the electric cooling fan and shroud from a C7.
I have noticed many after market fans and shrouds do not have the flaps in the shroud surrounding the fan. The OEM's know what they are doing, allowing for considerably more air flow through the radiator while the car is moving at higher speed. I also believe the OEM fans are well built and often less noisy than some aftermarket.
If I end up needing to go to electric fans I will copy what you did.
-
Thank you sir! So far the fan is doing a much better and faster job of cooling off the engine. It is about the same for the IAT's which is interesting to me. Need to get a really hot day to really test it out.
If you do end up going with the C7 brushless fans, you'll need a PWM controller to be able to turn it on. It isn't a traditional on/off fan, but rather uses a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal to turn on the fan based on the duty cycle that you command. Basically the controller can turn on the fan at 30% speed to cool down the engine rather than 100%, or it can go to 100% if needed and slowly ramp down. Another really nice feature is it has a soft start so that there isn't a spike in amp draw when it turns on. Some very smart people designed this fan, I'll just say that.
-
Nice job on the fan install; it looks like it was made that way. PWM is the only way to go. While mine worked with a relay, I did get the spiking and more fan noise because it was running at 100%. It is nice that your EFI software has PWM built in as you have complete control over how it operates.
-
Thanks Bob. I'm continue to be impressed with the capabilities that Holley gives you. I love to tinker on things and this software allows me to do that. I've nailed down the tune and the supporting components now and it's a great cruising car.
I'm pleased to report that the fans are working really well. I actually got stuck in stand still traffic over the weekend for about 15 mins and the temps stayed in right around 202-204. I have them commanded to come on at 202 and off at 198. The IAT's were good as well. They were around 90* cruising and crept up to around 108 and pretty much stayed there. The ambient temps were right around 70, so I'd like to do a stress test to find out what it does if the temps are 85-90 doing the same thing.
I'm still running the fan shroud as is and never cut open the inside. I think that I'm going to modify it to give the fan a more open space to draw the air from. I think that may encourage more airflow to possibly lower the IAT's. When I'm cruising down the highway I'm usually about 15-20* above ambient, so I know that it's cooling efficiently.
-
After cruising around I wasn't entirely happy with how the IAT's were reacting with the fans on. They weren't dropping like I was expecting, so after thinking on it a while I decided to make a change to the shroud. I found another guy who had the entire opening of the cooling fan he was running open (Thanks John), and the fan was riveted to the shroud. I really liked that idea and decided to copy that same concept. That meant I had to cut the shroud open and make some mounting tabs.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367013421_94179823d8_b.jpg)
I'd guess that I gained an additional 30% more airflow through the C7 shroud rather than all of the air coming through the 16" opening that the shroud had before. Now there is a more direct path for the air to flow, but not only when the fans are on but at speed when the flaps are open.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368021410_6142a81b8f_b.jpg)
I found a nice guy over on the Corvette forums that had a wrecked C7 and had 4 perfect flaps, which is exactly how many I needed. He gave them to me, all I had to do was pay shipping!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367058996_047aa27648_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51367229998_3eb2000a22_b.jpg)
After a ton of test fits, I started to rivet them together. They turned out great and I'm very happy with the way it turned out now. Should have just done this from the beginning. Before when I was first cutting up the shroud, I saved the decal that came on the shroud originally. I wanted to put it back on when it was finished, and I'm glad I did. I think it was a nice finishing touch.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368021345_6ce1050fcf_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368021220_ec1420f778_b.jpg)
I also needed to shorten up my upper radiator hose. I didn't quite trim it enough when I first installed it, so now it doesn't touch the fan.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368021150_1f40209e5d_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51368021175_24da82e736_b.jpg)
I'm finally happy with the way this turned out. It looks great and is actually more rigid now than it was before. The real test is if all the efforts were worth it. I finished this up on Friday night to hopefully make it to a car show on Saturday morning. Great news is that it was 80* out and I was able to get out to the show and test the fans out. The engine coolant didn't change at all, but the IAT's stayed lower. Huge win! I drove the car for about 100 miles and the whole car performed flawlessly, but especially the IAT's. I stopped to let the car idle for around 10 mins to see what it would do. The IAT's were right around 95* cruising then when I stopped they slowly crept up to around 125* and seemed to stay right around that temp. To me that seems pretty good considering all the engine bay heat and no airflow. I could probably get it a little better if I made a CAI shroud around my filter. I'll probably do that at some point, but for now I'm really pleased. The best part was the IAT's cooled right back down once I was moving again. Dropped 15* quickly then slowly went back down to around 95*.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Excellent,
When I saw your previous post I had mistakenly assumed the flaps were already functional. My opinion this is the best way to build a fan shroud. Almost all the aftermarket shrouds that I have seen do not have flaps.
Great job and nice explanation with pictures. This is a good reference for someone contemplating electric fans.
-
I love that I always learn something from your posts! I didn't know about cooling fans using PWM.
It's cool to see the tweaks and mods you're using to get the car dialed in just the way you like.
Can't wait to meet this car in person...It's a beautiful thing (for a Camaro, I mean) :-P
-
I can't wait to see your car in person either. Let's meet up soon! The fan C7 fan is a brushless 600 watt Spal fan that GM uses in conjunction with their factory ECU and will only work with PWM. Most if not all of the OEMs are now using the brushless PWM fans in conjunction with a PWM signal. I'm not sure if I mentioned it before either, but it has some internal programming for a "soft start" so that there isn't a spike to the system when if first starts up. Running the fan at 100% it is very loud, but anything below 60% I can't hear when the car is running. Unless I'm out of the car watching the fan spin, I can't tell it's even on. Although I know it's working because the temps stay in check.
With a typical fan setup you cannot use the PWM because the Bosch style relay's are not able to turn on and off quick enough to effectively work. However from what I understand, you can use any fan, but need to swap out the Bosch style relay for a Solid State Relay which has no internal moving parts and will work with PWM. Then you could assign a duty cycle so that the fans aren't strickly on or off.
-
I have this "spike" problem with my 2000 fbody fans.. they are wired as fan1 full speed as low from pcm, both fan full speed as high from pcm. Which is not the intended wiring by the way.
Thus, when low comes on, engine idle speed dips for a moment.
However the setup works surprisingly well with the original 81 radiator even in florida heat. In fact, high has never been on :shock:
Not sure why I am polluting your thread with this, just wanted to check in and say hi.
-
That could be a sign of a weaker alternator. My C7 fans will draw up to 50 amps at full load and I don't notice any drop on voltage.
Always good to hear from you my friend. Glad the T/A is running good for you and keeping cool temps.
-
Not a ton of progress, but I swapped out my 255-45-18 tires for some Michelin ps2 275/35r18. I got them pretty cheap and they have helped slightly with traction. I got them for a really good deal to check for fitment, but I'd really like to go with a 275-40-18 eventually.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51436483372_998a79d528_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438187615_9759b1dfe6_b.jpg)
They didn't help that much though with traction haha.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437471078_45f6932025_b.jpg)
I also picked up a set of 7.425" pushrods to see if more lifter pre-load will help to reduce the LS sewing machine sound. I know its very common with LS motors and aftermarket cams, but I want to try and reduce it if possible. Hopefully can swap those out over the next few weeks.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51436466627_a8ef7f1272_b.jpg)
I also picked up this little tab for the ebrake switch. After I install that, I'll be able to hook up the light on my dash.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437459623_0049fed3e8_b.jpg)
Cheers,
Ryan
-
I swapped out the pushrods Friday night and took some measurements. I used my adjustable pushrod checker and came up with the same measurement that I did when I built it originally. Zero lash comes out to 7.325". So with my 7.400 pushrods I come up with a 0.075" preload which is right about where the stock should be. BTR calls for a 0.100" preload, so I was right swapping out to the 7.425" pushrods. Glad to see that the inside still looks really clean. In addition to swapping out the pushrods I was tracking down a small oil leak. Good news is that the valve cover gasket had just pushed outside of the groove on the driver's side. Easy fix.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51494941082_8a869686c0_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51494941057_15c0952486_b.jpg)
After that was all done, I took the car out on Saturday and it was slightly quieter, but not the results that I was hoping for. I'm guessing that it may not be the engine at this point, but maybe the design of the headers. I've heard various reports of different header manufactures where people have loud or quiet valves depending on that. I'm hoping to swap out my shorty headers at some point for some long tubes so maybe that will change things. I'm probably being particular because whenever I drive it I'm listening for it. Other people that have ridden in the car say it's not very noticeable.
Also Friday night, I got my parking brake wire hooked up and the new paddle installed. This was super easy and took me all of about 10 minutes. Nice to have a dash indicator now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51495955353_8db04e4ced_b.jpg)
I'm hoping to get my new Astro Vents installed soon too. Just plugging away at the little things and enjoying driving the car.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Ryan,
I think you may be to particular or sensitive to the noise. A comparison might be like when you paint a car and 99% of it is perfect but you know of this one spot that is not. Your eye is drawn to that one spot every time you look at the car, while most other people never notice the flaw. I don't know if this true in your case but most cars with headers tend to be a little more noisy and mechanical sounding. I personally wouldn't put long tube headers on, that might make it worse.
-
You're probably right, headers won't help. I've been thinking a lot about it and I think what I'm going to do is pull out my interior this winter and install a ton of sound deadening material. I think what's happening is the sound is resonating through the interior because it really shouldn't be as loud as it it. And while the interior is out I might as well install mini-tubs haha
-
Mini tubs eh?
More room for wider tires = better traction!!
-
I might have to tuck the tailpipes in a different way, but I'm measuring 2" from the inside of my tire to the leaf spring. That is a lot of extra tire if you ask me. Not even sure I'd "need" to go with a 4 link with that much extra tire.
-
So I'll post up something that is a little interesting and a little embarrassing because I should have noticed it sooner. I'll start by showing my little quickie body work project. I've had some trouble ever since I built my car with some rubbing on the driver's side, which came to a head recently as I hit a road bump recently and my tire actually contacted the quarter. It wasn't serious damage thankfully, but it caused some paint damage when I hit it back in place. I'll fix this the right way this winter, but for now I had some Duplicolor color match rattle can paint that did a really nice temporary job. Just sanded it back a little with 400, then tapped it off, hit with primer and paint. Pretty pleased for a 20 min fix. Definitely not perfect, but it won't get any worse now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524952779_1ff5917464_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51523433202_b0053efa04_b.jpg)
When I was putting the wheel back on I started looking at that area and noticed that it seemed to be closer to the front than the rear. Then as I stepped back and got down I realized that the wheel wasn't centered in the wheel house. I didn't have tape measure right handy, but I checked and had two finger gap on the driver's side, and a loose 3 finger gap on the passenger at the front of the quarter. After I investigated further the rear axle had shifted forward at some point causing the wheel to not stay centered. I loosened up both the leaf spring pocket and the u bolts and made some adjustments and now it's the same on both sides. No idea how I didn't catch that sooner.
Before:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51523433497_7e9f1575ef_b.jpg)
After:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525154190_64fdf563df_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524952129_3992ec0663_b.jpg)
Much better now!! I've driven it around and so far zero scrubbing.
I never drive the car at night, but I figured I should install the dome light. My son was interested in what I was doing when I was doing so I had him help me install it and cut the headliner. I also showed him how the circuits work. Probably forgot it already, but he was super interested at the time haha.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524473898_2b3e6252f5_b.jpg)
Best,
Ryan
-
So I'll post up something that is a little interesting and a little embarrassing because I should have noticed it sooner. I'll start by showing my little quickie body work project. I've had some trouble ever since I built my car with some rubbing on the driver's side, which came to a head recently as I hit a road bump recently and my tire actually contacted the quarter. It wasn't serious damage thankfully, but it caused some paint damage when I hit it back in place. I'll fix this the right way this winter, but for now I had some Duplicolor color match rattle can paint that did a really nice temporary job. Just sanded it back a little with 400, then tapped it off, hit with primer and paint. Pretty pleased for a 20 min fix. Definitely not perfect, but it won't get any worse now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524952779_1ff5917464_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51523433202_b0053efa04_b.jpg)
When I was putting the wheel back on I started looking at that area and noticed that it seemed to be closer to the front than the rear. Then as I stepped back and got down I realized that the wheel wasn't centered in the wheel house. I didn't have tape measure right handy, but I checked and had two finger gap on the driver's side, and a loose 3 finger gap on the passenger at the front of the quarter. After I investigated further the rear axle had shifted forward at some point causing the wheel to not stay centered. I loosened up both the leaf spring pocket and the u bolts and made some adjustments and now it's the same on both sides. No idea how I didn't catch that sooner.
Before:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51523433497_7e9f1575ef_b.jpg)
After:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525154190_64fdf563df_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524952129_3992ec0663_b.jpg)
Much better now!! I've driven it around and so far zero scrubbing.
I never drive the car at night, but I figured I should install the dome light. My son was interested in what I was doing when I was doing so I had him help me install it and cut the headliner. I also showed him how the circuits work. Probably forgot it already, but he was super interested at the time haha.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524473898_2b3e6252f5_b.jpg)
Best,
Ryan
It doesn't matter if your Son remembers or not, but I can assure you He won't forget the time he spent with you. My Grandfather was a Mean Nasty Old Man, but I clearly remember the one time he took the time to show me how Vise Grips worked. I still have those Vise Grips and used them where I worked.
-
Nice to see your son "helping"
-
Ryan,
Picture of your son testing the circuit is priceless!
-
I remember when my dad would let me do stuff like that and it always stayed with me. Trying to give my boys the same experience.
-
I've been looking to update my seats for a long time, but have been getting along find with the stock 53 year old seats for 5 years now. I guess the biggest reason for me keeping the seats (other than my budget), is that the seats were born with this car. They are far from perfect, but are in much better shape than most after that long. That said, I had been thinking of updating my seats recently and sent a message to my buddy Don. He has a 1967 Camaro that he pulled these out of in favor of some dedicated racing seats since his car is more oriented towards Auto X. He gave me a deal on the seats, first gen brackets and a matching rear seat cover. He lives a little over 2 hours from me, but he was going to be at an AutoX event this past weekend and said he'd bring them along. I was considering going to the event anyway, so it was a great opportunity to take the car out and the weather was a beautiful upstate, NY fall day. Changing leaves and all. Unfortunately I didn't grab any pictures...
Anyway, drove up to the event and swapped the seats right in the parking lot haha. My brother-in-law rode up with me and we had them swapped out in about 20 mins. Got to watch Don and the others race a few times and then hit the road back home. Next year I'll get my car out to an event. It took me most of the summer to dial in the car, but it will be ready for next year. Here's the car loaded up with the new seats installed and the old seats in the back. Driver's seat fit in the trunk and the passenger had to go behind my seat.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51549471518_f1e74b285c_b.jpg)
We had a great ride home, but after I filled up I smelled some raw gas. I didn't think much of it because I had done a few hard accelerations and figured it was coming out of the filler neck or something. But then we got about 20 mins from home and it got interesting. Was cruising along, then all of a sudden my wideband started flashing yellow/red on my 3.5" screen and it died. Tried cranking it over and nothing. Fuel pressure is only reading about 15 psi?? I got the car pulled over to the side of the road then after a little troubleshooting, I tried it again and it went right back to 43psi where I have it tuned for. That was strange??
Ran fine, but I went easy on it. Then after I dropped off my BOL, I was about a mile from the house and it got bad. It would only build about 10-25 psi, and wouldn't stay consistent. I was thankfully able to limp the car home. I haven't had time to diagnose the issue, but I'm leaning towards bad fuel pumps or possibly a cracked fuel fitting on the assembly which is very common on the CTS-V pumps. I'm not happy about the fueling issue, but I will say that without the Terminator X system I would have had to get a tow truck. What is simply amazing about this system is because of the learning features, it added 50% fuel across my fuel tables which enabled the car to run enough to get me home. I was already thrilled with the ECU/software already, but for me this was just amazing. I can only imagine the many other situations where this system could save engines by it's learning capabilities.
After I got home, I unloaded the car and then grabbed some pictures of the seats. I'm in love with them, and they look right at home. Love the bolstering and how much more connected I feel to the car. You feel so much more planted and even the clutch engagement feels more solid now. Very pleased! Thanks Don.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51550154055_6d5845a0c7_b.jpg)
I need to do a little tweaking on the seats because they seem to be interfering with my seat belt retractor. I had to pop off the little covers so that I could get them to fit and slide without hitting. I'll address that soon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51549955314_413fed89d1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51549236776_ebf0851c08_b.jpg)
The other big win is that the seats allow me to have more leg room, while keeping my son's seat at the same location! I think that if I could find a different car seat for him, we would both be much more comfortable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51549236736_981f5ed8bf_b.jpg)
I need to dig into the issue with the fuel pump because I'd really like to do so cruising this fall. I hooked up the heater in the car this spring so that I could drive it later into the fall! I'm hoping it is a simple fix, but we will have to see.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
One of the outlet fittings for my fuel pump failed one day - a Google search of Russell Fuel fittings is not a happy adventure.
-
If you are referring to those fittings that adapt the GM quick connect to AN that use the plastic retainers, yes, they are prone to leaking. Bad news. I have an adapter that is a GM quick connect female/male fitting that gives me a 1/8" NPT plug for my PWM module, but it's designed well and has a captured retaining ring. Hopefully I'll get some time to diagnose it. I'll make sure to update the thread. If the fitting on the fuel pump hat is broken, I'll probably upgrade to a billet aluminum hat that's made by a company called ALM Performance. But I'll have to hold off until later since that kit is $310 bucks.
-
that is the one: Push-Lok to AN.
-
If you are referring to those fittings that adapt the GM quick connect to AN that use the plastic retainers, yes, they are prone to leaking. Bad news. I have an adapter that is a GM quick connect female/male fitting that gives me a 1/8" NPT plug for my PWM module, but it's designed well and has a captured retaining ring. Hopefully I'll get some time to diagnose it. I'll make sure to update the thread. If the fitting on the fuel pump hat is broken, I'll probably upgrade to a billet aluminum hat that's made by a company called ALM Performance. But I'll have to hold off until later since that kit is $310 bucks.
Since I'm light years away from what you have accomplished, I had to see what $310 got you....Well all I can say is "Buy Once, Cry Once"....Its sad that its hidden and nobody but "You" will ever get to see it, but judging buy the notes on what it replaces, and how many different applications, I think its an idea whose time has arrived.
-
Thanks LangSS. The way that I look at it, I got extremely lucky because in the Penny Pincher fashion the majority of the parts on my car were used. Everything came together better than I'd hoped for, and with no exception this fuel pump assembly was used. The pump is a CTS-V dual pump which retails for around $966, plus tax and shipping at Rock Auto. I was able to score one on FB marketplace for $150. So even with the upgraded fuel hat, I'll be half of a new one. I should probably just replace the fuel pumps while I'm in there, but I'll save that for another day. My handy dandy fuel pump access hatch has made this extremely easy!
-
Thanks LangSS. The way that I look at it, I got extremely lucky because in the Penny Pincher fashion the majority of the parts on my car were used. Everything came together better than I'd hoped for, and with no exception this fuel pump assembly was used. The pump is a CTS-V dual pump which retails for around $966, plus tax and shipping at Rock Auto. I was able to score one on FB marketplace for $150. So even with the upgraded fuel hat, I'll be half of a new one. I should probably just replace the fuel pumps while I'm in there, but I'll save that for another day. My handy dandy fuel pump access hatch has made this extremely easy!
Oh believe me I understand the PP concept....My project is after a fashion doing the same thing, just not LSX powered. My only concern would be the potential for a Fuel Leak, and subsequent fire possibility, so it sounds like you have that covered. Do keep up the good work.
-
Seats are really nice and look like they fit in the car really well! A definite step up. Hope you get the fuel issue sorted out.
-
It's been a little bit since my last update. I haven't been able to drive the car because of the fuel issue. After further investigation, I determined that unfortunately the fuel pump outlet has some micro-cracks and is weeping fuel. So that explains why I was losing pressure and got a slight gas smell after I drove the car and parked it in the garage.
It was really hard to capture in a picture, but there are a few hairline cracks on the top. The real issue I found later on though.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51553384047_e6bcb7cfa5_b.jpg)
Rather than buying a whole new fuel pump assembly for $1k+, I opted to buy an ALM Performance replacement hat that is machined from billet aluminum and comes with a full flow -6AN fitting. It was a little pricey, but much cheaper than buying a whole new pump. It's a shame that it will be hidden under the car too. I'll have to open up my hatch from time to time and look at it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452919_bc3306abbe_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627802466_9fffa2a683_b.jpg)
Speaking of the fuel pump hatch, I'm SOO glad that I installed that hatch now. It was incredibly easy to remove the fuel pump. A few wiring connections, the fuel line, locking ring and it popped right out. Took me less than 3 minutes.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626975272_6060d09e6a_b.jpg)
In order to remove the hat, you have to pop out these little c-clips. I made a little hook on the end of a piece of mechanics wire to grab and pop them off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452779_89a0f20550_b.jpg)
Pulled it all apart and cut the stock hose off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626975187_97574a9ca3_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628658135_418cd9c2fc_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452739_16c79612cd_b.jpg)
Then to get to the other side of the hose, I had to pull apart the assembly. Started with a few little clips that retain the pumps to the bucket.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452694_714a78b8c8_b.jpg)
Popped off this hose.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628658045_78907b4ea8_b.jpg)
Had to carefully pull up on this piece. There's an o-ring that seals it together tightly, so it took a little effort to pop off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627802086_13642b6dab_b.jpg)
Then here's where I found the real issue with my fuel pressure. When I removed the fuel pumps, I found this junk in the bottom of the fuel bucket! Looks like a rubber band and some cardboard remnants! Upon further investigation, there was a piece even wedged in the pump inlet at the bottom of the fuel bucket!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020588_c0a03b0f25_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452454_e79ceea24e_b.jpg)
To top that off, the fuel pump sock was disgusting. There were little bits of that cardboard among other junk. It was a used pump and I could blame the guy I bought it from, but he gave me a great price on it because it was in unknown condition. It's on me for not inspecting it more closely. There is also the possibility that the cardboard could have fallen into my tank at some point. regardless, I'm glad I found this out now before I grenaded my motor.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452539_ef6a8cb62c_b.jpg)
Huge shout out to Carl with Vaporworx! I had mentioned to him the issues with fueling that I was having and he offered to test out my module at no charge. It fit in my timeframe and he turned it around within 24 hours. It was back to me within a week, so I'm very grateful for that. Then to top it off, when I found this fuel sock I wasn't able to find a replacement. He had one in stock and got it shipped to me right away! I had it in a few days and it got me back together. If you need anything fuel related, go to Carl!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628657850_cbb4e602d1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626974797_5e9af85993_b.jpg)
-
After I replaced the fuel sock with the new one, I moved on to installing the new fuel hose provided with the kit. I carefully sliced the old hose with a fresh razor blade and it split right open.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020538_2045946c04_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020323_f420681525_b.jpg)
Clamp down the hose tightly. I happen to have a pair of the crimpers that are made for these style clamps. (I'll edit this in the future, but I'm having a fuel pressure drop at WOT that I think is from not clamping this hard enough. Will update when I find a solution)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020293_f1292985ca_b.jpg)
Then I moved on to installing the new hat. It is installed in the reverse of how it was disassembled. I had to pop in those little c-clips into the guide rod, put the pump assembly back into the fuel bucket and the springs into the pocket of the bucket.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452294_66c3bf82da_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627801791_840d783649_b.jpg)
There are also a few wiring components that need to be de-pinned and put into new connectors. They are all provided with the kit.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020213_171638207b_b.jpg)
One thing I didn't like was that this connector is bulkier and to get full compression needs to sit outside the bucket. It's not a "problem" since you can remove and install it like this, but worth noting.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627801681_7102d1aeea_b.jpg)
Now I have a complete assembly again with much better fuel fittings. The full flow fittings should allow the pumps to flow fuel more easily so in theory should be easier on the pumps and potentially more at full duty cycle. I also measured the new outlet just for fun and it is substantially larger. By my calculations it's roughly 37% larger ID.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020123_45d6a39c11_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626974457_34c4f2b8a7_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628657525_c87a90937e_b.jpg)
Next up was reinstalling the pump. I grabbed a cheap pump ring installation tool on Amazon and this is well worth the money. I popped it on and it clicked right into the slot easily with my breaker bar.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628451979_5ebc6d36a7_b.jpg)
The last thing that needed to be done was swapping over the connect for the pumps. Because the mating connector for the fuel pump side isn't made, it is necessary to de-pin and reassemble using the new connector.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628451864_043338b38b_b.jpg)
Good news is I was able to get in the car and after a few cycles of the fuel pump I had full pressure again. Fired up the car and had full fuel pressure! Took the car out for a spin and it performed flawlessly. What better way to break in a new fuel pump than a 2nd gear rolling burnout?
I didn't get any pictures but last night I finally got around to wiring up the manifold referenced signals to the PressureWorx module. I'm hoping to get out tonight and test it out. Should provide more fuel pressure as the boost increases. Should ensure I have no fueling issues up top. I got lazy. I ran the wires front to rear, but never took the time to hook them up. I also extended the wires for my flex fuel connector, connected it and ran it into the car. Now let's see how long it takes me to actually hook it up haha. The closest e85 station to me is about 45 mins so I'm not in a huge rush to finish the install.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Oh and for those who are interested. Here is a picture of my fuel learn table after I drove home with the low fuel pressure. It added fuel where I was trying to keep the car running. This is an important thing to remember when you have the EFI systems that have learning capabilities. I made sure to reset the table and reflashed it back to my ECU, because if not it would be adding all that fuel and be wayyy rich. It would have probably fouled plugs and generally been bad for the motor. Similar issues happen to guys when the wideband O2 fails. When you install the new part you have to remember to reset the fuel learn tables.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627801371_a97ef132c1_b.jpg)
-
Ryan,
Good to see you have your fueling issues worked out. Nice write up and pictures. Usually they say hindsight is 20/20, in your case the access panel was great foresight. Having this all sorted out should give you good piece of mind.
-
It's been a little bit since my last update. I haven't been able to drive the car because of the fuel issue. After further investigation, I determined that unfortunately the fuel pump outlet has some micro-cracks and is weeping fuel. So that explains why I was losing pressure and got a slight gas smell after I drove the car and parked it in the garage.
It was really hard to capture in a picture, but there are a few hairline cracks on the top. The real issue I found later on though.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51553384047_e6bcb7cfa5_b.jpg)
Rather than buying a whole new fuel pump assembly for $1k+, I opted to buy an ALM Performance replacement hat that is machined from billet aluminum and comes with a full flow -6AN fitting. It was a little pricey, but much cheaper than buying a whole new pump. It's a shame that it will be hidden under the car too. I'll have to open up my hatch from time to time and look at it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452919_bc3306abbe_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627802466_9fffa2a683_b.jpg)
Speaking of the fuel pump hatch, I'm SOO glad that I installed that hatch now. It was incredibly easy to remove the fuel pump. A few wiring connections, the fuel line, locking ring and it popped right out. Took me less than 3 minutes.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626975272_6060d09e6a_b.jpg)
In order to remove the hat, you have to pop out these little c-clips. I made a little hook on the end of a piece of mechanics wire to grab and pop them off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452779_89a0f20550_b.jpg)
Pulled it all apart and cut the stock hose off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626975187_97574a9ca3_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628658135_418cd9c2fc_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452739_16c79612cd_b.jpg)
Then to get to the other side of the hose, I had to pull apart the assembly. Started with a few little clips that retain the pumps to the bucket.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452694_714a78b8c8_b.jpg)
Popped off this hose.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628658045_78907b4ea8_b.jpg)
Had to carefully pull up on this piece. There's an o-ring that seals it together tightly, so it took a little effort to pop off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51627802086_13642b6dab_b.jpg)
Then here's where I found the real issue with my fuel pressure. When I removed the fuel pumps, I found this junk in the bottom of the fuel bucket! Looks like a rubber band and some cardboard remnants! Upon further investigation, there was a piece even wedged in the pump inlet at the bottom of the fuel bucket!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628020588_c0a03b0f25_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452454_e79ceea24e_b.jpg)
To top that off, the fuel pump sock was disgusting. There were little bits of that cardboard among other junk. It was a used pump and I could blame the guy I bought it from, but he gave me a great price on it because it was in unknown condition. It's on me for not inspecting it more closely. There is also the possibility that the cardboard could have fallen into my tank at some point. regardless, I'm glad I found this out now before I grenaded my motor.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628452539_ef6a8cb62c_b.jpg)
Huge shout out to Carl with Vaporworx! I had mentioned to him the issues with fueling that I was having and he offered to test out my module at no charge. It fit in my timeframe and he turned it around within 24 hours. It was back to me within a week, so I'm very grateful for that. Then to top it off, when I found this fuel sock I wasn't able to find a replacement. He had one in stock and got it shipped to me right away! I had it in a few days and it got me back together. If you need anything fuel related, go to Carl!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51628657850_cbb4e602d1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51626974797_5e9af85993_b.jpg)
Not to say "I Told You So".... But I Did....lol.....If you are referring to those fittings that adapt the GM quick connect to AN that use the plastic retainers, yes, they are prone to leaking. Bad news. I have an adapter that is a GM quick connect female/male fitting that gives me a 1/8" NPT plug for my PWM module, but it's designed well and has a captured retaining ring. Hopefully I'll get some time to diagnose it. I'll make sure to update the thread. If the fitting on the fuel pump hat is broken, I'll probably upgrade to a billet aluminum hat that's made by a company called ALM Performance. But I'll have to hold off until later since that kit is $310 bucks.
Since I'm light years away from what you have accomplished, I had to see what $310 got you....Well all I can say is "Buy Once, Cry Once"....Its sad that its hidden and nobody but "You" will ever get to see it, but judging buy the notes on what it replaces, and how many different applications, I think its an idea whose time has arrived.
-
Not to say "I Told You So".... But I Did....lol.....
I should have listened haha. But it's all back together now, but I may need to pull the pump back out to tighten a fitting I crimped on. Running I have the full pressure, but as soon as I turn the key off, the pressure rapidly drops to 5 psi. After talking with the guy who made the fuel hat, he thinks I didn't crimp it hard enough which is causing it to leak internally.
-
Not to say "I Told You So".... But I Did....lol.....
I should have listened haha. But it's all back together now, but I may need to pull the pump back out to tighten a fitting I crimped on. Running I have the full pressure, but as soon as I turn the key off, the pressure rapidly drops to 5 psi. After talking with the guy who made the fuel hat, he thinks I didn't crimp it hard enough which is causing it to leak internally.
If I had a dollar for every time I passed up doing something I should have because I didn't want to spend the money at the time, I could have probably retired years earlier. But I like you hate to spend the same money twice on the same thing. So, I think that's just normal... What I am most happy for you is that it never caused anything to go sideways. I have personal experience with fuel leaks that if I had not moved as quickly as I did, would have been the end of a host of great memories and all on me. Kind of "For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost". So As Larry would say...Git Er Done...and go have some fun with that ride.
-
This is one badass sending unit. I'm waiting for you to start pushing 1,000hp now lol
Good stuff,
Jon
-
I'm always open to sponsors haha. All I'd need to do is port the blower, stroke the motor to 416, upgrade the lower pulley and run it all on e85. Any takers??
Oh, and fuel upgrades, trans upgrade, rear diff upgrade and etc... :lol:
-
On another note, I successfully wired up my flex fuel sensor! It's hard to say if it's working correctly because at first I was expecting to see the content to be closer to 10% (or zero on my 1D scale), but it was hovering around 1%? Then I remembered the last time I got high octane fuel, that it was ethanol free. I'm hoping to go for a drive before the weather gets too bad and try to find some e85 and mix it to something like e30-40. Just to see how the sensor reacts and adapts to the blended fuel.
Lastly, and something I'm most excited about is I've set up an appointment for the local dyno guy to have a few power pulls done. I'm not having it dyno tuned, just the power pulls. I'm very happy with my tune-up and I'm hoping that will lend itself to see at least 600 HP. Based on what other's have seen, I think this is pretty reasonable.
-
My buddy has a Cadillac V and switching to ethanol is quite a difference!
-
Ok, well I've been through a bit of a rollercoaster since my last update. As I was tuning my car before my dyno session for some power pulls, I realized that I was running out of fuel in full boost. It was very discouraging, because I was really looking forward to getting the car on the dyno... Being that I'm in NY, we have very little time before we get a snowstorm and the towns all spread salt on the roads. But after bouncing some ideas off some trusted car colleagues (thanks Andrew), I was able to determine that it's very likely that my one or both of my stock fuel pumps are failing or weak. They are just not able to keep up with my fuel demands in boost and rpms. I took a data log and you can see here in the blue is my fuel pressure and the yellow is the ECU trying to add back fuel. Fuel pressure gets down to around 22psi in full boost, but with the fuel module it ramps up the fuel pressure 1:1 with boost. So, I've definitely got a problem...
One thing that may not be clear from this graph though is Holley saved my engine. If I was running a stock ECU that didn't have the ability to add that much fuel up top in boost, I would likely be shopping for a new short block.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657743394_a46639c125_b.jpg)
The solution was to contact Carl at Vaporworx and order a pair of upgraded fuel pumps from AEM. He recommended a pair of AEM 320 lph @ 43psi pumps which are a direct swap for the stock 190 lph CTS-V fuel pumps. This should provide me plenty of fuel all the way up to 60+ psi and even have enough flow if/when I run e85. Carl was able to expedite them to me and I was able to swap them out last night.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51656237547_c1c905cf07_b.jpg)
I'm getting pretty good at this by now... here's how the stock pumps attach inside the bucket.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657721189_2abcbf6113_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657721184_2db5d0c9b6_b.jpg)
Pop off the white retaining clip, and the fuel pumps pull right out.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51656237252_178f8d1dbb_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657720969_5e5f8c5976_b.jpg)
Here you can see the fuel pumps are an exact direct fit for the stockers. Wiring harness and all.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657720889_6262dd9f4c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657720729_5cd4241f60_b.jpg)
One thing that does need to be swapped over is the little white spacers from the stock pumps. They go on first and I used one of the new o-rings that came with the kit.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657915495_571d3f790a_b.jpg)
Then they just slide right in. The fuel socks are separate, but they all fit inside the bucket nicely. Then it was all back together and ready to go. SOOO glad that I added that fuel door in the trunk. I would have gotten sick of pulling that tank by now...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657271923_c0928c1a4b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657915270_2e1cf25af0_b.jpg)
Then it was time for the moment of truth. Was that really the issue??? I went out to do a little testing and tuning and found out that was exactly my problem! I took the car out for about an hour during my lunchbreak and honed in my in boost fuel VE table. It was way out of wack, but I was able to get a few data points and get it looking wayyy better.
Here I am out mingling and trying to fit in...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657271823_f937eb6377_b.jpg)
I played around with my fueling once I grabbed lunch, then took a log on the way home. Bingo, that's what I wanted to see! Rising fuel pressure along with the boost. Blue is fuel pressure, yellow is CL compensation, and I added green for boost. Fuel pressure stays constant, then rises with boost. Fuel trims still need work as you can see. Too rich as it's pulling 25% fuel, but I'd rather be too rich than too lean up top. Looks like for this run I topped out at just shy of 11psi.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51656255867_5823de05e4_b.jpg)
I also got this cool shot when I brought my car to work last week.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51657130211_72e44d7d57_b.jpg)
I re-scheduled my Dyno appointment for Monday so wish me luck. I think I'm ready now. It's definitely running as strong as ever now.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Ryan,
This time it looks like you have really worked out all your fuel delivery issues. With the new pumps 680 LPH is a lot of fuel, I would think more than enough! While reading through your post I kept thinking the same thing about the access panel in your trunk. You must have had a premonition about having to repetitively pull the pumps back out. Obviously the access door was a great idea. When I did my car I was more afraid of leaks from the pump module or sending unit than pump problems. Putting the tank in empty once was bad enough. I would hate to be wrestling with a tank half full of fuel.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you and looking forward to hearing about your dyno runs.
-
I have dropped the tank on my first 78 to fix a leaking return line, and on two other 3rd gens. 2nd gen was easy...rubber fuel line behind the LT FT wheel house, drained the tank in a matter of minutes. 3rd gens are a pain in the A$$...You have to siphon the fuel out. Lucky for me the Wife liked to run on fumes, so when the pump burned up, the tank was nearly empty....She had to sit with the Hood Up, Flashers On, for half an hour in heavy traffic....lol... Second one was an almost full tank of really stale gas, but still not all that bad. Worst part was dropping the Rear Axel....A hatch would have made both pretty simple. Still not as bad as changing a Heater Core on a 3rd Gen.
-
...3rd gens are a pain in the A$$...
Have to drop the exhaust too. Swapped out a whole 85 TPI setup in to a 83 Berlinetta: engine, trans, harnesses, axle, fuels lines, etc.
-
Ryan,
This time it looks like you have really worked out all your fuel delivery issues. With the new pumps 680 LPH is a lot of fuel, I would think more than enough! While reading through your post I kept thinking the same thing about the access panel in your trunk. You must have had a premonition about having to repetitively pull the pumps back out. Obviously the access door was a great idea. When I did my car I was more afraid of leaks from the pump module or sending unit than pump problems. Putting the tank in empty once was bad enough. I would hate to be wrestling with a tank half full of fuel.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you and looking forward to hearing about your dyno runs.
Funny you mention that. If I'm totally honest, I had planned on this. After reading about the CTS-V pumps, they are prone to having the fuel outlet on the hat breaking. I also planned on future fueling upgrades so it made sense to put in a little time now to save a bunch of time later. I just wasn't anticipating doing them all so soon! I think I've had the fuel pump assembly in and out 4 times, now. So just guessing that it would take me around 30-45 minutes each time to pull out the tank, I think I made a good decision.
-
Your cars are always so awesome!
-
[/quote]
Funny you mention that. If I'm totally honest, I had planned on this. After reading about the CTS-V pumps, they are prone to having the fuel outlet on the hat breaking. I also planned on future fueling upgrades so it made sense to put in a little time now to save a bunch of time later. I just wasn't anticipating doing them all so soon! I think I've had the fuel pump assembly in and out 4 times, now. So just guessing that it would take me around 30-45 minutes each time to pull out the tank, I think I made a good decision.
[/quote]I agree with you...The hatch just makes good sense. In my case....even though the tank was empty and I was working on a clean concrete floor, dropping it was the easy part. But its awkward trying to lift, hold and attach things all at the same time trying to put it back up. I used a floor jack and a piece of plywood with some thin pieces screwed to it to semi locate it, but still doing it buy yourself isn't on the list for great ways to spend time.
-
In preparation for the dyno appointment on Monday, I was checking over the car for anything that could be an issue. Then I noticed one last thing... My rear end slid forward on the driver's side again! So this is definitely an issue and since I had already bought all the parts to fix it, I pulled it all apart. As soon as I got the shock plate off, it was clear that the bolt was sheared off.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51665833537_05efe5a1aa_b.jpg)
Quick fix with the new grade 8 hardware.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51665833547_f32574973c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51666872423_8995171251_b.jpg)
Went back together and was centered back in the wheel well just like before. Not sure why it broke, but now it should stay in place.
Now the car was as ready as it was going to be and I headed out to the dyno. I made a couple pulls on the highway and still had rock solid fuel pressure! That bad pump really messed up my VE tables, but I was tweaking on it every time that I drove it since I swapped fuel pumps. I got it dialed in to where I was +/-5% in closed loop and still was after I opened her up. I had prepared 3 different tunes loaded on the handheld for the car. Dyno 1 tune was the same one I've been running all summer. Second and third each had the same tune, other than progressively adding timing in the WOT areas.
I arrived at the Overdrive Automotive and we got right to work. I had my dyno 1 tune in the car, we got the car up on the dyno and he got the car rolling in 4th gear and hit it. You could hear the car load up at first, but then quickly hit the rev limiter. Spun on the dyno! They sprayed some sticky aerosol and tightened the straps a few more clicks. Next run we were able to get a clean pull although he said it was still spinning a little bit around 3500 rpms. 596 HP and 497 TQ! In my head I really wanted to hit 600 rwhp, so the fact that we were this close right out of the gate, I knew that we could do it. He did make a few adjustments on the next few pulls to the timing tables between 60-100 kpa which he said was mostly for drivability and we bumped the rev limiter from 6500 to 6950 on my dyno 1 tune rather than loading dyno 2 or 3.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51667517625_1bd616ea7c_b.jpg)
Here's the video! I love the way it sounds.
https://youtu.be/UFD9SW36-n8
We continued to have traction issues, and he added some solution from VP that really helped with traction for drag racing applications. That was the ticket and we ended up with final numbers of 633 HP and 619 TQ! I couldn't be happier with the results and how it all came together. What's amazing to me is that the tune is still on the more conservative side with my timing. He said that if we wanted to we could keep adding power because with a change of .5* of timing we gained around 7 HP on the last pull. He guessed we could probably add another 2-3 degrees. But I'm more than happy with this power level right now. I can always get a full on dyno tune, run full length headers, pulley changes for more boost and even add e85 to my tune up down the road for more power.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51667324109_f0c76a1935_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51666872263_93f26a0d47_b.jpg)
What I've learned from this whole experience is number one... I need more traction! Number 2 is that your tune is everything. Holley makes their software really easy to use and make good power, but it isn't self tuning by any means. You either need to read up and do a lot of homework like I did, or leave it to someone who really knows what they are doing. Even with all of the homework that I did, there is no replacement for an experienced tuner. Tom at Overdrive made a few changes to my car on the fly and it made a big difference as far as the drivability after the dyno. I've learned a lot just watching him and can't wait to continue tweaking the tune. He mentioned adding a 2 step to a clutch pedal, that I may give a try for next year.
I've still got some nice weather in the forecast so I'm looking forward to getting the most out of this year and get some more miles on her.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
633 RWHP is very impressive by anybody’s standards, congratulations!
I am not sure what kind of stress is put on the bolt that snapped. I would think the ubolts around the axels would take most the stress. You were wise in giving your car a once over before the dyno runs.
-
Sounds quite respectable Ryan. Good work.
-
X3 not sure many of us can squeeze anymore out of a 1st or 2nd gen regardless of the power plant.
-
Wow, just wow. That is awesome! To think you built that in your garage is amazing. There is so much that goes into a build like this and you executed it perfectly. The best thing about it is it is a streetable car. You can take the family anywhere comfortably and still rip it when you want to.
Way to go Ryan!
-
Thanks guys! I'm very proud of the car and was happily surprised to see how much power it was making!
I haven't done anything with the car since the snow started flying here in NY. I've been planning out some smaller projects for this winter and found a few good deals on Black Friday.
I'll start by saying a big thank you to EBC brakes! I entered a raffle on Camaros.net, and they picked me for a free set of front brake pads! They let me pick what I wanted so I went with the Red Stuff pads for my C6 Z51 brakes. Should make a difference with stopping power and they are supposed to have almost zero brake dust.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51691551885_6e1ddcd5c0_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51691551930_2a0f3474e4_b.jpg)
This year I'm not planning on doing any big projects like last year; full engine rebuild, engine swap, trans rebuild, supercharger swap to name a few...
One thing that did bother me last year was that my rear gears are too short now with the supercharger. After a lot of thought and calculations, I decided that I need a 3.42 rear gear instead of the 4.11's I'm running now. I need to get something taller, but unfortunately for me I opted for a 4 series carrier rather than the 3 series when I first built the rear diff. So that means that along with gears I also needed to buy a new carrier. I've only used a posi unit with clutches, but decided that this time I'd like to try a gear type carrier. While searching around for my options I found that for a few dollars more I could get an carrier with 33 splines. So what started as a gear swap, turned into a full upgrade. I bought a 33 spline Eaton TrueTrac, Richmond 3.42 gears, Timken master rebuild kit and a pair of Yukon direct replacement 33 spline axles.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51719613923_857be43cd8_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51719613918_d3a575d414_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51719358061_03fc6cdc76_b.jpg)
When I built my rear differential originally, I really wanted a TA cover but opted for the stock one due to my lack of budget. Since I was going to have the cover off anyway, I decided now was the time.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51720019419_6497535109_b.jpg)
The gear swap should only take a few weekends to finish, and I'll have to take my break in period in the spring.
They haven't shipped yet, but I also picked up a set of DSE frame connectors for a really good price on Monday. That will be a much more involved project, but looks pretty straightforward. I'm going to take my time to ensure that my fitment is spot on. I've decided that I'm going to stick with my stock wheel tubs and figure out how to get it to hook. It may involve a set of 15" wheels and sticky tires.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Sweet!
-
I wish I had your energy and enthusiasm :-)
At least you have a little 'T/A' built into that camaro now, LOL.
-
I think that TA may be worth an extra 40 HP haha
-
All caught up...great numbers!!
That is very cool!!
-
Congrats on exceeding your dyno goal...That's amazing.
That rear end setup looks amazing!
-
Thanks Tom and Charles!
As I do most nights, I was checking out FB marketplace to see if anything interesting was posted for sale. I found a guy who has posted up a pair of 18x9 Rocket Attack wheels with Falken 660 tires with about 1k miles on them. He was asking a really good price, but more than I wanted to spend. On a whim, I asked if he would be interested in my 12 bolt axles, carrier and gears. To my surprise he said yes, and after a little back and forth we traded on Saturday. The problem was everything was still installed in my car, so I had to rip it all out on Friday night.
I was able to pull it all out in about 1.5 hours, so I was pretty happy about that. No real drama.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744134313_561bdc58fb_b.jpg)
Before I did the swap, I wanted to check a few things because when I was looking up the pros/cons of upgrading to a 33 spline axle in a 12 bolt one thing that came up was the weight of the axles. The guys were saying that the added weight in rotational mass may not be worth the added strength since the 30 splines are really strong anyway. What was great is I happen to have one stock 30 spline axle, one aftermarket 30 spline axle, and 2 aftermarket 33 spline axles. So I thought why not throw them on the sale and measure the diameter of the shafts.
First up was the stock axle shaft. Weighed in at 14.2 lbs, and 1.26" in diameter the majority of the length of the shaft. It was hard to measure since it varied.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744134043_f78e32779d_b.jpg)
Next was the aftermarket 30 spline axle. Weighed in at 14.8 lbs, and had a diameter of 1.32" until it gets close to the splined section where it necked down to 1.26"
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51743890006_9c37fed470_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51743890006_9c37fed470_b.jpg)
And lastly it was my new aftermarket 33 spline axles. Weighed in at 14.8 lbs. (although this didn't include the studs), and had the same 1.32" diameter the entire length of the shaft right to the splines. I'd guess that the studs will only add maybe another .2 lbs. so still very close to what an aftermarket 30 spline weighs.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51743890051_2d4858b18b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51743890191_33bbec0361_b.jpg)
So the conclusion that I'm going to draw is that if you are upgrading to an aftermarket axle shaft, there is a minimal weight difference between the 30-33 spline axles. I received my studs and some brake line plugs on Sunday so hopefully I can pull the diff so that I can install the new gears up on my work bench rather than on my back.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744133558_fc9a8b5287_b.jpg)
Oh, you guys probably want to see some pictures of the wheels.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744133333_1b914e0383_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744536014_8e039d1144_b.jpg)
I really love the wheels, but I'm still unsure if they will actually work on the front unfortunately. They are 18x9 with a 4.5" backspacing and have a 255/35 front tire. I would feel much better with a 5" backspacing, but time will tell if they will work.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51743889846_b5a36c2c76_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744133758_23f78ca68c_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744133548_c7c3772b37_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51744780890_6ee40fc3c8_b.jpg)
I'd love some input from anyone who's run a similar wheel and/or tire size. Rolling the fender lip is out of the question, but I may consider notching the inner fender if necessary. I actually have fiberglass inner fenders so this wouldn't be too bad to modify. If I can get them to work, I'll sell my BMW wheels and then pick up a matching set for the rear in 18x11 with a pair of Falken 660's in 315 flavor! Fingers crossed.
I'd also possibly be open to any creative options that I could do for relatively cheap to effectively increase my backspacing. Only thing I can think of is possibly running a different hub that could tuck the wheel in further, but that also creates other issues.
Thanks,
Ryan
-
I really like the look of the new wheels...they look killer
Is the offset similar to the previous set?
are they going to rub the frame and if they do, is this a big deal for you?
how would you go about getting the wheels tucked underneith more?
Can you machine some of the matting surface off the rims or would you need to change the suspension...maybe too drastic.
Just curious as you said rolling the outer fender lip is not an option but judging from that one picture, it looks like the wheel should go inward ever so slightly.
-
Hey Charles,
There really isn't much that I can do to the wheels to get them to fit. Upon further research, I could probably squeak a 18x9 wheel if it had a 5.5" backspace, but then I'd need to run a smaller tire. So basically I just need to sell them and get something that is smaller and fits better. I'm going to just sell them and get a pair that are 18x8 with a 5" backspacing. That's the same specs that I have right now and they fit perfectly.
-
Pretty excited about this next update. I orders some frame connectors and mini-tubs from Detroit Speed. Thanks to MCB for being so easy to work with and having the best prices around. They said the wait for the 67-69 mini-tub kit was 3-4 weeks, but it showed up in 1 week the same day they said the frame connectors were to arrive. Thanks Kim and Melissa.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51760857331_fe926d65e9_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51760027892_18715a6d56_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51760027692_b1a6c7b807_b.jpg)
I've also pulled the rear differential to get it prepped for the re-gear. It kinda feels like I'm going in the opposite direction, but it is progress. The new gears should make a big difference toward putting the power to the ground and the frequency that I was shifting. In case you missed it in an earlier post, I'm swapping out the 4.10 gears for 3.42 gears. When I originally ordered my Yukon Duragrip carrier, I went with a 4 series rather than the 3 series. So dropping down to a 3.42 gear meant that I needed a new carrier... Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose. I went back and forth between buying a 3 or 4 series a few years ago. But since I needed a new carrier anyway I decided to go with an Eaton TrueTrac and after looking around it was only a few dollars more to upgrade to 33 spline axles. When I originally put my differential together it had one stock axle and one aftermarket. I was planning on getting a new axle at some point anyway so this was an opportunity to get two new stronger axles at the same time. Differential kit with gears came from Quick performance and the axles were from Ron's Machine Shop. Best prices on the internet for both if you are in the market.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51761097653_7781c80dbd_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51760027707_626fe5ac6a_b.jpg)
I should have the differential together soon. I got the new Koyo bearings pressed on the carrier and pinion gear. Jim, I'll try and do a sort of step by step for you if I can.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Ryan,
I am really sorry the new wheels didn’t work out, because they do look great. I am still blown away at your RWHP numbers and wondered if you had subframe connectors to keep from twisting things. Looking forward to your rear axel gear change. I have done rear end bearing replacements but never set up a new ring and pinion with carrier replacement. To do it properly is a lot of work and I personally have fears about screwing it up. Even though I have a lot of experience working on everything else automotive.
-
I'm no the fence about just maybe trying them to see if they rub. If the don't I'd just run them as is. Yes, the frame connectors are to stiffen the chassis because of the power. I think for now I've been ok because it doesn't hook, just spins. But I'm hoping to get a set of drag radials for this summer and don't want to tweak the body and crack paint.
I set up the gears the last time around and they turned out great. Really wasn't too bad. I watched several videos on youtube before I attempted it. I think the thing that made me the most nervous at first was setting the pinion gear depth. But what made it super easy was just re-using the stock pinion shim. I matched the thickness and once I got the shim packs for the side carrier bearings it had a good pattern. Hoping it will go that straight forward this time around too.
-
Congratulations on your continued progress and the great numbers. Power like that makes for a fun drive! Thanks for weighing those those axles; that is surprising and great information.
The 3.42 should make for good cruising on the highway and good mileage. I need to upgrade some of my rear axle components and a TrueTrac would be my choice as well. Let us know how doing this yourself goes again. The subframe connectors and TA diff cover should be beneficial at that power level. Have you welded the diff. tubes?
-
Thanks Bob. The new upgrades should make a big difference. I'm not welding the tubes on the car. I debated it, but they aren't leaking currently and the plug welds look solid on the inside. I have read stories where guys weld them and ruin the housing because it warps... I'd rather not chance it. It's held up so far haha.
I was able to make some time here and there over the holiday break between visiting family to get the rear end set up. I'll do my best to do a quick write-up to hopefully give confidence to others to attempt. Really isn't that difficult with the rights parts and tools.
I started by completely disassembling the differential and took it down to the carwash to get power washed. First step is getting the new bearings pressed onto the pinion gear and carrier. The gear kit that I bought came with brand new Koyo bearings with the master install kit.
Before you can install the bearing on the pinion gear, you first need to add a shim. Best advice I've gotten was to start with the stock shim that came out of the differential. My stock shim was .0315, but if you don't have that shim my instructions that came with my kit said a stock 12 bolt shim is .030. So that would be a good starting point. I found two shims that came to .031 and used that as a starting point.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4176/33837214644_1025c1c76b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4162/34549228021_2076295ac6_b.jpg)
I installed new bearings and races about 3500 miles ago, but if you are doing a complete rebuild, I would suggest knocking out the races and installing new at this point. Next I took my new pinion gear and installed it in the rear end without a crush sleeve. It's important at this step that you just snug the pinion down until there is no play in the bearings. Since there is no washer it would be very easy to get the bearings too tight and ruin them at this stage. Just get the pinion nut tight enough that the play front to back is gone and maybe a touch more to give it a bit of preload. But it doesn't take much. Spin it around to make sure there is no binding. It's also a good idea to put some gear oil on the bearings since they are brand new.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51797289755_17806bb7bb_b.jpg)
I bought this handy tool to hold the yoke while I tightened the nut and it worked beautifully. I think it was from Ratech, but I can't remember. I used this for both tightening and loosening the pinion nut.
Next up was installing the ring gear onto the carrier. I used a file on both the ring gear and carrier to make sure that the surface was completely clean and flat before installing the gear. I did actually find a little nick in the carrier surface that needed to be filed down. Would have definitely caused it to run out of true. This is an important step and is also in most instructions. The gear fought me a little getting lined up but just take your time and use a little heat. I used a small torch and lightly heated up the ring gear then made sure to get one bolt lined up and tapped it into place with a deadblow hammer. I know it's not recommended, but once I got a few of the bolts started I used them to pull the gear up flush. I only turned the bolts maybe a 1/4 turn at a time and went very slow to walk it up flush. Then I pulled all the bolts, added Loctite and torqued.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796930859_8483fe7a40_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796681168_d986ee365d_b.jpg)
I had planned on using my old shims, but realized that at some point the old shim pack had wiggled out of place and was contacting the axle. Not good, but glad I caught it when I did. I mention this because although my rear was making no noises, I think that I didn't have enough preload on my carrier bearings. Either that or the bearings weren't quite pressed on all the way. I was able to pull the carrier out of the rear without prying on it upon disassembly. I think what happened was a kept the shims loose enough that I could pull it in and out for the next step, but never added the shims back in to give pre-load. Gotta post the good with the bad.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51797056324_1fecb0e7d5_b.jpg)
Next was to get the carrier installed in the rear to see what adjustments need to be made. What I did was kept the old shims labeled from when I disassembled earlier on. I measured those shims and use that measurement as a starting point. What's nice about these new shim packs is that they use a capture style setup, so they become almost one piece once installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796930699_2fab2f46bf_b.jpg)
When I used the measurements from the last go around, I found that I needed to add several shims to get the tight preload needed for the carrier bearings. I wasn't taking any chances this time and decided to get them tight from the start even if it's more challenging to get in and out. Initially I was pretty close and had a backlash of .016, but we are shooting for between .007-.009 since my gears and bearings are new.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796681113_30c62a32d1_b.jpg)
The instructions said that you need to move in increments of .003 to notice a difference, so I kept moving .005 since that was the smallest shim I had in those packs. I kept fighting with the shims because when I would swap the .005 from side to side, it would either be .006 or .011. So I measured all of my shims and played around with it and got it to .010. I decided that it was good enough. So I painted the gears with the yellow paint to see where my pattern was. The instructions I had gave a ton of scenarios for what was acceptable and mine look good according to the pictures. pattern is mostly centered top bottom and left right on the gear faces.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796930574_522e47980f_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796680913_51e9f2b741_b.jpg)
Then I blew everything apart to prep for final assembly. I pulled off the yoke applied silicone to the splines and both sides of the washer. This time I installed my old crush sleeve and put it all back together with Loctite on the pinion nut. If you are using a new crush sleeve you have to get ready to crush it. It takes something like 400 lb ft to get it to crush so make sure you eat your Wheaties. I re-used my crush sleeve since it was new and still had tons of tension. As a matter of fact it had so much that I had to crush it more to get the 14-19 in lb rotational torque. I used that yoke holder and added a bar for more leverage. I don't have a dial style torque wrench for in lb, but have a bar style and click type. I used both of those to check one another and I feel confident my settings are good.
After I got the pinion nut torqued I reinstalled the carrier with the shim packs and tapped it all back into place. Torqued the carrier caps and I got lucky or something because when I rechecked the backlash, I was right on .009! I'd rather have mine on the loose side anyway than too tight.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51797289325_5321d6da26_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796559691_7013f26aa3_b.jpg)
Then with it all torqued down, I test fit my TA cover. Looks really good now! I've always wanted one of those covers and so glad I went for it this time around.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51796930404_3e71b4b83b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51797289105_c60e4d0d93_b.jpg)
It's not quite done yet because I still need to paint the raw steel ends of my axles then install with the c-clips and center plug. Once that's done though I can button it all back up and put it back in the car. I first need to find someone to help me get it off my work bench. It's way heavier now that it's fully loaded!
I also want to say that the car community is so great. Thanks to a fellow member of Camaros.net who sent me some parts he won't be using. Thanks Frank!! It's a set of 67 spring perches for running my springs inboard. These should work perfectly for me.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51797056269_307cabf51f_b.jpg)
I also need to re-clock my brake line tabs since they were hitting the exhaust. I didn't realize that, so I will just move them down more in line with the stock brake line tabs. Then I can get the rear back under the car and start on the frame connectors.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Ryan,
Thanks so much for posting the detailed write up and pictures on your ring & pinion change. I have a couple of questions or comments.
I thought the problems with axel tubes slipping was only an issue on 10 bolt rear ends and not twelve bolt? I haven't decided yet if I am going to weld them or maybe just a couple of tack welds would be enough and keep from distorting anything. Since my car will be driven only with street tires I kind of think wheel spin will keep me from really twisting anything.
When figuring out the shim size between the pinion and bearing you mentioned starting out with the same size shim as originally installed. I thought it was necessary to set the pinion depth to the number scribed on the end of the pinion gear? I wonder if different manufacturer bearings could affect the pinion depth?
Thanks again,
Larry
-
Great write up Ryan! One thing I would like to add is when trying different shims to get the ring and pinion gear where you want them is to take your old bearings and sand the centers out so they slip over and you can adjust easily without have to press them on and off. Makes it quicker to set up a diff. Is it perfect, no, but it gets you close.
BTW, your work ethic and drive to keep improving your car is extremely impressive!
-
Great write up Ryan!
BTW, your work ethic and drive to keep improving your car is extremely impressive!
Spoken for truth!
-
Larry, I'm not sure about the axle tubes being a 10 or 12 bolt thing, but it was a consideration that I had when thinking through the process. I had seriously considered buying an alignment rod with the pucks to jig it up and swap out the axle tube ends to a Moser 7900FM ends. This end gives you a Tornino ford style bearings that press on the axles, but has a GM backing plate bolt pattern and is a flush mount design. Basically it allows you to use your disk brake backing plate as the bearing retainer and I could keep my LS1 rear brakes. Biggest benefit was getting rid of the C-Clip axles.
It was going to be a pretty sizeable cost with buying the jigs, ends and custom axles. After talking with the guys at Quick Performance they basically recommend going with a 35 spline over the 33 spline at that point because there is no cost difference between the axles and differential. That was a lot of effort and cost to get rid of c-clips, but then my buddy made a single comment that made my decision. He said that with a disk brake rear end, the disk will keep the wheel and axle in place in the event of a failure. That was a lightbulb moment, and made for an easy decision.
As for the scribe on the end of the pinion, I'm not sure to be honest. I never noticed that it was there, but that would make a lot of sense. I went back and looked and I see there is a scribe in the gears that says 32, so I can only assume that it means .032. I set mine at .031, so hopefully it's like horseshoes and is close enough. I liked the pattern that I saw so hopefully I'll be ok.
Thanks Tom. That's a good point about the old inner pinion bearing. Anything to make this process easier is definitely a good thing.
Thanks Mike.
-
Continuing on the assembly of my rear differential, I installed and torqued down my ARP Wheel studs to match the front. I've never used a screw in stud before, but according to Yukon I added some high strength thread locker and torqued to 90 lb ft. I actually used 95 lbs just because. Before that I also cleaned up the mating surfaces since they were raw uncoated. I just found some gray paint that I had left over.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819045327_8bd962236b_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819991896_7bf85d8ac9_b-1.jpg)
Once they were installed, I put the C Clips in and the puck that comes with the TrueTrac. I really like that little puck instead of the pin in the Eaton copy because there is hardly any endplay in the axles now. I also like how the puck is retained in the carrier with the clip. Very nice design overall.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819991456_5edc6854a3_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820334329_e70d47922c_b-1.jpg)
Another little adjustment that I needed to make was how I mounted the brake lines. Where they were on the top of the axle housing rubbed on the exhaust tail pipes, which I didn't realize until I was taking out the differential. So I cut them off and rotated down where the stock lines would have been. I didn't get a picture, but because of the relocation, I had to bend up some new lines to meet up. Both ended up a little short so I used some extra line I had.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820709295_39d16c1a9f_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819991116_bbdb25a92c_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819044757_50180373a3_b-1.jpg)
Once the new lines were finished, back in the car she goes. Just needs to be filled with oil and that's a done deal.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819041767_c99e6b1bc0_b-1.jpg)
Good news is that the Rocket wheels fit the rear! So they will work for rears if someone is interested.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819041667_7d29ea9dbd_b-1.jpg)
Now that the rear is back together, it's time to start on the frame connectors! Out goes the interior. I'll need to modify the rear seat frames anyway for the mini-tubs so I needed the back seats out anyway.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819041852_8fd8c67eb5_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819041622_0610017943_b-1.jpg)
First up before I did any cutting was to make sure that the frame was square. Now I thought it was good to go, but I never had a tape measure on it. Glad I did because I was out of square by about 3/16". Also the frame measured 1/2" more forward on the passenger side from the same reference point on the rear frame. I basically loosened up 3 body bolts and the 2 core support bolts. I left the short side rear frame bolt tight, then pulled on the passenger side wheel with some jackstands under the body and the weight taken off the frame. Worked great. I had to do that twice to get it to move enough, but after that I was 1/16" out of square, and the frame was only 1/16" forward now. Close enough for me.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819041242_94aebc7ed1_b-1.jpg)
Cut out my templates and laid them out roughly where they will go.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820102123_a6329118ed_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819040952_685cb38e34_b-1.jpg)
So because I had to take out the battery and battery tray to get to the core support bolts I figured I'd also install my new coolant overflow tank. It's from a 75-79 Chevy Nova and fits really nicely in the passenger fender space that is unoccupied.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51819041417_395fa93fe5_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820705910_f580d968cb_b-1.jpg)
It has a nice single mounting tab that meets up nicely with the ridge on the passenger fender too.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820330844_bcd298e65c_b-1.jpg)
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820102353_cce32bce1d_b-1.jpg)
Almost invisible now. You can see the old overflow I had. When I had my 14" fan it was tucked down nice and low, but after the C7 fan was installed, I had to relocate to the fender brace temporarily.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2022/01/51820705765_d2da740730_b-1.jpg)
Here's what it looked like before. Not a great picture, but you can see it doesn't flow in that location.
(https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/08/51368021175_24da82e736_b-1.jpg)
That's all for now. Hoping to start on the passenger side frame connector tonight.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Looking good. How do you treat the opening once you drill into a panel?
-
Dang, I love this thread :D
-
Thanks for the detailed write-up and congratulations on finishing that rear end project!
The out of the way coolant tank is a really good idea.
-
As much as I enjoy watching the different phases of this build, it has "mission creep" worthy of a major Pentagon project.
That said, I plan to yank the 440 out of my Lemans and replace it with a L83/6L80E combo as 10 mpg does not mix with $8/gallon gas. :lol:
-
Looking good. How do you treat the opening once you drill into a panel?
Hey Jack, I just used a black paint pen and dabbed some paint inside the whole. It's covered by the bolt/washer so it didn't need to match.
As much as I enjoy watching the different phases of this build, it has "mission creep" worthy of a major Pentagon project.
That said, I plan to yank the 440 out of my Lemans and replace it with a L83/6L80E combo as 10 mpg does not mix with $8/gallon gas. :lol:
You got that right! Not quite sure how I shifted from a cammed LS3, to a cammed LS3 with a supercharger haha. I blame the internet! :lol:
-
I've been plugging away working on the frame connectors. I made some good progress so I'll post up some pictures. I can't just take a weekend and knock them out, so I'm posting up the progress I make in 1-2 hour sessions.
Once I got the templates laid out, I scribed the lines and made the cuts. Now since my interior is completely installed, I had to get creative on how to avoid damaging it. Since we regularly get large boxes from Target, I decided to use one for a "tent" and keep the sparks inside this little box.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853205712_a43d988819_b.jpg)
Then I cut out these seat plates to get to the cuts underneath.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51827337322_33724fb6a3_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828627509_9ee63ddcee_b.jpg)
The overall fitment is pretty good for the first test fit. I do have a few gaps larger than I would have liked, but nothing that can't be fixed. What I used for my first cut was a 3' long metal ruler and made sure to line up the template on the bottom with the ruler to connect the rear frame rail with the front. That way I knew that my one line was very straight. I then trimmed with a pair of metal shears until I could fit the connector up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828627474_6e54685f20_b.jpg)
DSE makes the connectors a little long on the front so that you can trim to fit closely to your frame. they say it should be 1/2" from the front of the frame connector to the back of the sub-frame. I used my handy bandsaw which made really nice clean cuts.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828627394_9891952475_b.jpg)
Tacked the end cap in place and then fully welded it up. I had to play around with my settings at first so there were a few more stitches than I wanted, but great penetration so It's all good.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828627169_dcbd6cbe07_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828283606_6194a551fd_b.jpg)
I then test fit the frame plates and assumed they were all the same at first, but they aren't. Make sure that you are using the inner/outer when you mock them up. The ends of the sub-frame are just slightly different.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828394658_040c4f765a_b.jpg)
I clamped them in place and made sure it had a really tight fit. Then put some tack welds on to hold them in place.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51827336847_b4b74df043_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51827336742_a53279cee3_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828394648_0cb581eb21_b.jpg)
I then repeated the process on the driver's side. Everything was the same with one exception, the rear frame rail fitment. The passenger side was nice and tight and the width was going to tie in nicely. Once welded and flap disked, it will blend in very seamlessly. However, the driver's side was about 3/16" too wide at the taper.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854493799_3cbaa4514a_b.jpg)
That gap was too large to overcome, so I had to modify it. Wasn't really expecting to do that, but we are building custom cars so not completely out of left field. I measured the amount that I needed to narrow it, then cut a pie shaped piece out of it. That large metal ruler came in handy for this too.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853205287_8b77a41753_b.jpg)
Note that I added two reference lines to put the frame rail in the same spot. After I increased the taper, it fit just like the other side.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854168136_c138426dc5_b.jpg)
Welded up the seam and hit with the flap disk until it disappeared.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854167841_af7cd30839_b.jpg)
At this point both sides have been mocked up and fit pretty good. Time to get the frame plates welded to the frame connectors. I stopped over to my dad's for that though since he has a bigger welder that can weld the 1/4" frame plates to the 1/8" connectors.
I still need to play around with his welder since I don't use it all the time. His welder has always had way more welding spatter than mine. I had to chisel them off and grind smooth when I got home. One of these days I'll get a larger welder.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854826335_bb878d4e1b_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854493519_5d52b22bf1_b.jpg)
This was my best weld for the day, definitely need more practice.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854167556_192ec94552_b.jpg)
Then yesterday I was able to get some time in the garage I got the frame connectors welded to my frame. I welded them on the outside and inside.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854826035_0e01774c78_b.jpg)
They tuck up really nicely. I'm really happy that I went with these connectors. They are definitely more involved to install, but I think will do a better job of tying the frames together.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854245508_6b513ba5aa_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854493129_2f2f8c640f_b.jpg)
I still need to weld the frame rails to the torque box and inside on the floor pans. As well as a few other areas, but I'm hoping to get that all done this week. Then I can paint and seam seal.
I'll be happy to get this project done and out the way.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Good job man! True subframe connectors now.
-
Great job on the subframe welding and installation. I got the impression you weren’t 100% satisfied with your welding, I am envious of your skills. Since your RWHP is probably double of anything the engineers were thinking of back when they designed this car, it’s a wise move. Especially when you factor in traction from a good set of tires.
Do you ever plan on taking your car to the drag strip?
-
I made some more progress on the car, and finished up everything but welding in the seat plates that I had to cut out in the beginning. Now that the connectors are are welded to the front and rear frames, I could focus on connecting them inside the car. Like others have said, the toughest part was connecting the 1/8" frame connectors to the light gauge steel floor pans. It wasn't bad, just have to get the settings right or you can easily melt through the thinner material. I opted to make the welds hotter so that I could get good penetration on the connectors, then just dipped down to touch the pan for a split second. It worked really well and I'm pleased with the results.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51884187020_4d412fa20f_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883858209_254b15664b_b.jpg)
Now that the top side was completely welded, I went back and had to drop the leaf spring perch down to finish welding a little section that was inaccessible. I wanted to make sure that most of the welding was done before I went to this step so that I didn't tweak anything.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883603268_48697bc7c4_b.jpg)
Once everything was welded to the frame connectors, I went through and painted everything with an oil based paint that I'm a big fan of. It brushes on and creates a really smooth finish when cured. It looks really glossy right now, but will turn Satin when cured. I need to go back and weld in those seat plates and then I'll be 100% finished with the install. Already the car feels much tighter when I jacked up the car on one corner. I think this will make a big difference.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883847744_c9f61d9045_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883528211_52c2ee2e1b_b.jpg)
I can't wait to get this wrapped up so that I can get the interior back together. I bought some parts that came in for when I recover the rear seats as well as the right dome light switch. The one I have is too short and will occasionally come on when the door is shut.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883528206_27b07653b1_b.jpg)
The front wheel on the car had some curb rash and it has always bugged me. I was looking on eBay and happened to find that was kept as a full size spare in the trunk and the site had a 20% off deal. Got it for under $200 with a like new tire.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51882559132_29d0109b30_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883603283_63b5b42b37_b.jpg)
Another thing that has bugged me is the rear view mirror I had in the car was original, but very badly deteriorating. I found a guy who had one local and will be swapping that out soon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883847849_536372bcab_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51882559182_34ec5d6721_b.jpg)
The screw I had that had a better finish was damaged a little so I thought I would try the old steel wool trick. Pretty amazing the difference! Not perfect, but way better.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883528351_0bb91e7c58_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883847824_648104a1b9_b.jpg)
I'm going to stop and grab some burlap and new seat foam so that I can reupholster the rear seats. Hoping to get this all wrapped up in the next few weeks.
Thanks,
Ryan
-
Made some great progress over the weekend. I can finally call the frame connector install finished. All that was left was welding in the seat riser sections that I had to cut out for the install. Welded those up and sprayed a little paint.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897752770_626230d905_b.jpg)
I realized that there should have been a trunk divider which I never had installed when I first put the car together, so I grabbed one with the jute insulation on it. Hopefully that will quiet the car down a little. I also cleaned my seatbelts with hot water, Oxy clean and a little dish soap. The water was black, and I had to do that twice. Looks like they are a little sun faded.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897752740_7afbca5feb_b.jpg)
Note the date code 1968 original belts!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897101796_9211064510_b.jpg)
Next up was recovering the rear seats. I got busy and didn't take any pictures during the disassembly or recovering process. I added new burlap and kept the original reinforced burlap for added strength. I re-used the cotton padding, but added a 1.5" layer of foam on top. That really filled out the seat covers and gave more support. I used a hog ring kit and carefully installed them all as well as installing some reinforcement wires to help the hog rings not to pull out. I'm not sure why they didn't come with those, but they were simple to install. I used some scrap 12/3 ga wiring I had left over from a house wiring project. I separated the wires into the individual sections and it worked great. Plus the copper will take a lot longer to corrode than a steel wire will rust. Here they are all done. I left them in my boiler room and used a steamer on the wrinkles, but they weren't coming out. I was hoping that they would have come out smoother.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897191413_68510c10d2_b.jpg)
Then yesterday it was in the 50s and sunny so I put them outside for a few hours. BINGO! All the wrinkles were gone on the top of the seat back and the crease line was gone on the seat bottom! That was the ticket and now I'm thrilled with how they came out. Better than I expected actually. Not bad for my first time.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897191363_2cd4874bdf_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897752675_c088cfae1b_b.jpg)
I couldn't help myself, I had to install them last night. Wow what a difference! Little bummed about my sail panels though and how they are almost delaminating...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897100676_d466cd6409_b.jpg)
I also got my new to me rear view mirror installed. It's wayy better than the original one that I had.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51897438774_bb4f806fd3_b.jpg)
I'm hoping to plug away this week and get the carpet and front seats re-installed. It will be nice to have the car back together again.
Ryan
-
Every time I watch your work progress, I am even more amazed than the last time I watched it!
-
Really turned out nice Ryan. I thought I recently saw someone on the forum re-dye their seat belts?
I‘ll be curious to hear your thoughts about the subframe connectors when you take it for a ride.
-
Thanks Mike.
5th, that's an interesting idea. Maybe I'll have to try that with the dye. That is unless I get too excited and just install the rear seats haha. I'll be curious to feel the difference too. It's supposed to rain all day today so I'm hoping that it will wash away the salt so I can possibly take her out for a spin!
-
Been plugging away this weekend to get the interior buttoned up. The easiest one was getting the rear seat bottom installed. Wow, that is a huge difference from the original white seats.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908368697_156ba78f3a_b.jpg)
Two years ago:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33991104508_a058d9c794_b.jpg)
I also put a little elbow grease into my sill plates. While they are not in the best condition, I picked them up at a swap meet along with the RS turn signals from an original RS/Z28 car. Amazing how that aluminum polish cleaned them up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908368807_5a5f452bb7_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909654439_ab1397d4da_b.jpg)
Finished up my 4th Gen Nova overflow jug swap. Turned out so great, I'm so happy I found that as an option. I love how it tucks away in the fender, and the script matches the era perfectly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909961470_aba4b05ff0_b.jpg)
I also got the shroud pieces and CAI painted with the Trim Black that I painted the rest of my engine bay. Turned out really nice. I'm glad that I painted the CAI, I think it looks a lot better than the polished aluminum.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909654484_8d4d9fd8c6_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909654469_32677d98c0_b.jpg)
I also wanted to finalize the supercharger reservoir bracket. I temporarily mounted it last summer and never got around to making a mount. Well because I was driving it haha. My father in law stopped over on night after work and wanted to work on something so I gave him the task of making the bracket. He did a fantastic job, just what I was looking to do.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909335491_63dddb84ab_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909335681_000211f633_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909961160_41fc3df31c_b.jpg)
All done with the lines re-routed and cleaned up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908368482_b3c79a1520_b.jpg)
With that, I decided to clean up the car inside and out. I never cleaned it up before I put the car away last winter... No time like the present!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909429983_3cdfa6c6db_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909429963_2296259ecf_b.jpg)
Cleaned up the engine bay too. I think this is what the final form will look like.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909653784_dcd9efa9f0_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909429828_666ae84e97_b.jpg)
Just to prove that I do drive this car in the winter, I backed down my driveway and grabbed some cool wintery shots. I was on the fence about it, but I'm glad I did. The pictures turned out great. Really cool background. I really like the first one, when the sun peaked out and gave better lighting.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51908368392_bbf3c8276a_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909430098_443915017c_b.jpg)
Well I'm going to call the car done for now. Can't wait for spring!!
Cheers,
Ryan
-
You are brave Ryan, and the car looks beautiful.
-
Haha, don't worry Jack. I only backed about 800 ft. down my driveway, took the pictures and then right back in the warm garage. Then immediately hosed it down. :cool:
-
:grin: :grin: :grin:
-
Looks good Ryan, and a great pic with beautiful scenery. But I have to say, all that white stuff would have me wanting to head south as well :grin:
-
I‘ll be curious to hear your thoughts about the subframe connectors when you take it for a ride.
Ditto. They have got to be a huge improvement, especially the way you did it and at that power level. Your welding looks perfect.
Interior looks fantastic and it all comes together. I know some people like them, but I have never been a fan of white seats. My girlfriend had a new 77 Cutlass with the white interior and it was very difficult to keep clean.
I have got to get one of those coolant tanks, it is so tucked away freeing up space.
Congratulations on all your work!
-
Thanks guys, We had a shockingly good weather day yesterday in NY. It hit 71 according to my truck, which is crazy because a few days before it was sub-zero in the AM! I was soooo tempted to take the car out, but when I went out in my truck, although the roads were dry, you could still see salt... It's raining all day today and if we get a dry day this week, I may be able to get it out for a drive. :cool:
-
Car turned out great and it sounds great too!!
What are you working on next?
We need something to follow since the Camaro was deemed "done" and that garage looks plenty big enough for the next project!
-
Thanks Charlie, I appreciate it. I'm 99% sure I have another project lined up, but until it's official I'm going to keep it a secret.
As for the old Camaro, she's on the chopping block. I'm hoping to finalize the deal today and then she will be going to the new owner.
-
As for the old Camaro, she's on the chopping block. I'm hoping to finalize the deal today and then she will be going to the new owner.
:shock:
-
I've been thinking about selling for a while now, and I just took a deposit on the car today. Will definitely be bittersweet, but I'm happy with the sale overall.
-
Well, I have to admit I'm both sad and happy for you!!
But, it does make me a bit excited to see what's up next!!
-
Ryan,
I have to echo what Charlie said about selling Penny Pincher. I have a feeling your not happy unless you have a good project going. With your car finished maybe the thrill is gone? I have enjoyed watching this build, I am impressed by your skills and workmanship.
Unless I missed it, I don’t recall reading your impressions on driving the car after you did the axel ratio change and frame connectors?
Looking forward to the next project!
-
Looking forward to what's next!
-
Ryan,
I have to echo what Charlie said about selling Penny Pincher. I have a feeling your not happy unless you have a good project going. With your car finished maybe the thrill is gone? I have enjoyed watching this build, I am impressed by your skills and workmanship.
Unless I missed it, I don’t recall reading your impressions on driving the car after you did the axel ratio change and frame connectors?
Looking forward to the next project!
It's hard to say about whether or not the thrill is gone, but I've been less and less interested in it for some reason. It sounds silly, but as much as I thought I wanted a pro-touring car, I'm not sure that's really what I wanted. That or my taste has changed during the build and I just now want something different. The car handles incredibly well, but is stiff and not quite as family friendly as when I started it 6+ years ago. It's going to take a lot of money to change this car to become more of a cruiser from a pro-touring car, and to me it's just easier to sell it as a finished unit. Plus the one thing I can never change is how big my family and I are and how small the 1st gen Camaro's really are.
As for the driving impressions I actually just finished breaking in the rear gears in preparation for the sale, so I haven't had a moment to comment on them. With the 3.01 first gea in the TR6060, the 4.11 rear gears were just way too much. Going with the 3.42 is way nicer for sure. You don't have to shift quite as much now and you stay in gear a little longer. Also the rpms are noticeably lower cruising at speed, with zero loss in bottom end torque. That will just shred the tires on command haha. It's a really fun car to drive
The frame connectors also tightened up the body quite a bit. There are noticeably less squeaks and rattles in the car which is a huge plus. I can't really say that the handling has changed at all though. Body roll and suspension all feel exactly the same.
-
If you want a family cruiser you need an impala, or a big pontiac, grand prix, bonneville, etc. or better yet an old handyman or nomad :grin: :grin:
-
Wow! Selling another one of your children! I don't know how you do it. I can't let go of a few parts let alone a whole car that I poured my heart and soul into; and you did it twice!! I wish I could let go of some of my project cars. At least I know you are doing your part keeping old muscle on the road. Looking forward to your next adventure!
-
Im kinda like you Luke. I had all intentions of selling the TATA from the beginning. The more I worked on it, the longer it sat in the garage, and the more anal I became about getting the 'right' parts I changed my mind.
I am sure Ryan has something special brewing though! Cant wait to see his next project.
-
...That or my taste has changed during the build and I just now want something different. The car handles incredibly well, but is stiff and not quite as family friendly as when I started it 6+ years ago. It's going to take a lot of money to change this car to become more of a cruiser from a pro-touring car...
This is why the 64-72 "A"s are so popular; we get older and priorities change.
-
All good things must come to an end, and it's no different for the Penny Pincher Camaro and I. Sorry for the cliché, but a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into this build and I have learned so much in the process. My spot in life has changed from when I first bought this car and with a growing family I'll need something bigger. I feel really good that I was able to revive an old Camaro and bring new life to it. The guy that bought it is really excited for it and is not a re-seller so that makes me feel so much better about the sale. I was able to take the car from a broken down car, to running/driving on it's 50th anniversary. I was able to swap in 3 different engines, with the final being an absolute beast. It was also the first car that I've ever had with any forced induction. I owe a lot to that car, but in the end we are only caretakers of these cars and now it will live on for another 50+ years.
Here's a few send off pictures of the car before, during and after it was loaded up on it's way to Los Angeles.
I wanted to get a proper picture of myself with the car before I sold it, so I got a quick one before it was loaded on the trailer.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52061513969_68fd263448_b.jpg)
It was in good company too.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52061308073_b7401227e1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52061282186_7288cbfa33_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52060237657_4db480fef6_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52061281991_36114582b0_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52060237462_a2827b9a71_b.jpg)
I'd like to thank everyone here that has helped me along the way with parts, advice/suggestions, critiques, or other support. Great community here and I look forward to sharing my next project when it comes along. It's likely going to be a 2 door wagon of some sort. I want to find a solid body late 50s or early 60s wagon with really cool patina. Ford, Chevy or other. Not sure what it will be but I'll know it when I see it.
Cheers,
Ryan
-
Sad to see it go but you did a great job for a real average background guy. I doubt I could have built the final rendition of this, heck, I needed your guidance to finish mine!
I know it will be awhile but I can't wait to see your next project! Thanks for taking us with you on the journey!
-
Alright, mister! Back to work on the shop! :lol:
-
I assume the buyer arranged shipping, that looks like a really nice rig! I bought a parts car from Matawan and the guy I got it from was a member on here at one time. There is always a lot of discussion about shipping vehicles on the aaca forum and most of the experiences are bad. This guy looks like a class unit.
Im glad for you with the sale, I am sure its bitter sweet but theres always another car out there somewhere that needs some work.
-
Alright, mister! Back to work on the shop! :lol:
There won't be any further progress on that shop during my ownership. My wife accepted a position at UVA and she'll start towards the end of June. We are listing our house for sale this Friday and we are packing up everything and moving to Virginia! The next two months is going to be crazy for me, but will be so worth it!
-
That's right. I had forgotten that you posted a while back that you were escaping up there. I'm happy for you!
-
Very nice, Sounds exciting Ryan. I am happy for you.
-
Congratulations Ryan on the sale and your move!
You have been an inspiration to me and probably many other TAC members. Your not afraid to tackle anything and the results are always great. I also appreciate your helpful posts with great information and photos. Looking forward to hearing about your next project.
-
Congratulations to you and your wife on all the changes. There is a lot to do with these kind of activities. I know that because my wife and I just sold our condo in Florida.
Still, kind of sad to see the Camaro go. It looks really good and has all the correct mechanicals so I'm sure the buyer will be a really happy with it. People can tell the difference between a car that has just been thrown together and one that has been done to every detail.
A wagon or an SUV would be a really cool project. The one thing I don't like about sports cars is they have a small trunk or some have none at all. There were exceptions with some of the hatchback models. Still a lot of good choices from the 60s all the way up.
I know it'll be a while before you get to that, but I can't imagine you not having a project in the garage!
-
Thanks guys, I appreciate all of the feedback. I'm hoping to get all settled this summer and maybe pick up a car this fall or winter.