TAC Spotlight => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: TATurbo on March 03, 2021, 10:18:42 PM
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Hello TAC. I've been waiting to see if my build thread can be revived before posting an update on my winter punch list. I can summarize it by saying...
Got a bunch of little stuff done, but the list just will not disappear. Every time we knock something off we find another little tid-bit to add!
I figured maybe you guys might enjoy this to kill some of your Car related internet surfing time. It's the article Hotrod.com just posted on our Turbo TA build!!!!
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/readers-ride-1981-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-turbo/ (https://www.hotrod.com/articles/readers-ride-1981-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-turbo/)
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I'll say it here too Tom, congrats! I knew who's car that I as immediately when I saw the article pop up on my phone this morning!
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Very cool! Saw this early in the am but did not post as it was early in the am. Not one to post overnight, just lurk a bit. The car is a rolling piece of art brother. Just a great story about a guy and his car like many others out there. Your story is a parallel of me and the AMC. And you are wheeling the heck out of it like it should be. Congratulations on the ink.
JT
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Nice article and beautiful transformation!
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I saw the link in the lobby. Congrats Tom, to you, your wife and brother for doing a great job with the car. I dont know you personally, other than texting, but from the beginning I think you were rebuilding this car for your own personal satisfaction. I am sure the custom touches you did were ideas you had to refresh a tired old trans am that you had known for so many years. I highly doubt at any time during the process you had the 'end game' thought of car shows and trophies. That being said, you need to be prepared, I think there are going to be many more accolades in the future.
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Congratulations on the recognition Tom, well deserved.
Missing your regular thread, very much hoping we get that old data back here.
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Thanks again, everyone.
You're right Roadking, I hadn't thought much about shows, or submitting this thing for consideration for calendars, Hot Rod.com, or magnets (Yeah..I did that too...See below ;-)).
I had been loosely planning to get this car back on the road for literally 20 years when we started the project. I made a parts list back in '99. Like, the day after I parked it in my newly acquired garage. When that early list got to 5 figures I stopped at the realization I wasn't in a position to take it on. Some of the ideas I've had since way back then, (the 68 marker lights, and a digital tach in place of the Turbo lights in the hood). Others came from talking through it with others... Originally I was going to restore the interior exactly to stock. An upholstery shop I visited talked me out of the NOS velour. Suggesting red leather would be a better option. Julie suggested adding some black to the interior would look more modern and address my pet peeve related to the 4 -different- reds in the original GM interior. Chris helped me decide to go back to Black instead of the original Dark Charcol Metalic I considered for a while. Closing up the decklid hinge/spring cover and front marker lights, adjusting the body line, and other exterior touches were also all Classic Auto Painting's ideas.
At any rate, I was building the car just looking forward to driving it. I was honestly blown away when I saw the finished project. Everything after that has been about wanting to share it with people. I think it's stunning...A beautiful example of these cars we all love...A great ambassador for one of the coolest cars GM has ever produced. I'm not a vane person at all. I get ample satisfaction sitting behind the wheel, or even just sitting in the garage staring at it. This sounds corney, but this car has really brought me joy this past year. I want to share it with everyone I can. Especially like-minded individuals and friends like you all. The affirmation and recognition that come with that are pleasant side effects.
Speaking of which...I got a package and letter from Rock Auto this week with 50 of these inside:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51018195526_dd73ed462c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kJiA5N)IMG_5568 (https://flic.kr/p/2kJiA5N) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Sensei,
Thank you! I have a backup copy of my thread up to September, I might restore it myself. But, either way, I did have a couple of interesting projects come up this winter which I want to share with you guys. So, I've started looking through pics for an update post sometime soon.
Thanks again for checking in!
Take care.
-Tom
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Great article! Really good story about you and your car. You have to be really booming with pride on that car!
Jim
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Tom, they are probably all spoken for but you need to save a magnet for me. I have a bunch on my refrig, be nice to know one of them. Congrats again.
Weather is starting to break we need to seriously get together before too long.
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All caught up...love this car!!
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Thanks again for the kind words guys!
Roadking, believe it or not, I don't actually have 50+ friends who want pictures of my car for their 'fridge or toolbox. I'll definitely get one out to you soon...Along with your window tool!
Unfortunately, based on info in the Lobby, it sounds like the old content is lost, despite our Moderator's best efforts (Thank You MrBandit!).
I have a local copy of my project thread from May 2020. I'm going to play around with it to see if I can resurrect the thread.
So, my next post will be my initial attempt at restoring my First post here from March 27, 2015. It's gonna need some finagling so, bear with me as I figure out if it's feasible for me to restore the original thread...
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ORIGINAL POST DATE: MARCH 27, 2015 10:01:28 PM
Hello TAC.
Well, I've finally made it to a point in life where, after almost 20 years of down-time, I can finally start rebuilding my 1981 Turbo Trans Am. I'm excited to get going on it after so much time but I'm planning on 4 or 5 years to complete the job. Of course, I hope to finish sooner, but figured planning for a long build was best for budgeting and to ensure I can take time to enjoy the project. The goal is to finish in time for my 13-year-old son's HS graduation.
While this technically isn't my first car, it is the first car I bought for myself. I purchased it in 1990 when I was 19. It had 70,000 miles on it at the time. The car had a fresh coat of paint...and a freshened up 4.9L turbo motor. I'd loved TA's since I was around 7 or 8. When I was 12 my dad bought a 1977 TA, red, white interior, and a 400. I was hooked! I drove that car through HS...a lot of stories about that '77! But that's getting off subject...
This 1981 was my daily driver from 1990-1996. Over that time I broke 2 of the Turbo 301 motors before picking up a '79 403 from a friend who had twisted the body of his '79 TA by running it up a curb. You could see the twist in the rail between the T-Tops! My 2nd 301 was blowing smoke by that time so I bought his 403 and did my first engine swap in a rented garage stall. My Brother and I ended up finishing that swap in the driveway of my girlfriend's (now my wife's) parent's house. I remember almost rattling the windows out of their house when we fired up the engine with open headers about 6 feet from their front porch! We pulled that 403 out for a rebuild a year or two later...this time in my older brother's garage. That was around 1995. In 1996, I decided it was more economical to park the TA to buy my first brand new car to use as a daily driver. The TA stayed registered but driven rarely until 1999 when I bought a house and parked it in the garage. It was driven around the block once in a while until my son was born in 2002. Since then it's been sitting in the garage in hibernation.
This past summer, my son old enough to help wrench on it, we dug it out and got it fired up. I started planning over the winter and have started disassembly. It's been interesting, funny and a little embarrassing coming across old work me, my brother, and our friends did back in the day. Lots of wires to nowhere, hacks, and even a not so flattering note my brother left in wax pen under the rear wheel well back in 1996. Had a good laugh when I finally got his message, 20 years later.
Anyway, the plan is to rebuild the suspension with a mid-level kit from PTFB, an LS swap...adding a Turbo to it down the road, new paint (My brother now owns a body shop), new interior etc. I'm calling it a rebuild and not a restoration though...doing as much of the work as I can myself.
So that's the story...Thanks for checking it out.
Below are some pics and video, both recent and from back in the day. I'll try to post pics of progress as things go along.
Circa 1992:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/img023.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/a42b8823-2479-49ff-bf68-be2334db5f20)
Around 1994:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/TA%20Belmont%20platau.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/58e6f579-6c77-4018-bbc8-fc17f6611ebd)
Video of my brother and I doing burnouts around the same time in 1994 or so:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW6Hcp5Y3Nw" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW6Hcp5Y3Nw[/url]
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgP0WAN4Pg" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgP0WAN4Pg[/url]
This summer finally out into the sunshine
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P9020001.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/a5b96144-aaf4-406d-8b87-6fc0ef5494bf)
Video..Pulling out of garage for first time in 10+ years:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiY7sXmDlok" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiY7sXmDlok[/url]
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Love the retro burnout videos. Especially at the end with the 5.0 Mustang!
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Nice, noticed there was a crack in the dash but I cant recall reading about any dash repairs in your thread. I would have gone back for the 10th time to read it over. What a shame its all gone.
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Definitely cool to see someone from our little community here make it to the magazine.
Good stuff!
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Love the retro burnout videos. Especially at the end with the 5.0 Mustang!
I think the Mustang was scared to submission.
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A Jake and the fatman 5.0 mustang, also similar to the one used in Basic Instinct is definitely something thats on my list to own one day
Seemed however that only the trans am had a limited slip in the video 8-)
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Love it
JT
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It was sorta nice to revisit that first post from back in 2015. I'm happy I was able to preserve those old videos. We all know doing burnouts never gets old. I didn't realize watching myself do them on VHS quality video also never gets old. Who knew?
I have a love/hate thing for the 5.0 Fox-body Mustangs. I sorta like 'em, but I hated them back in the day. Mostly because they were faster than anything I had...But I remember one time in particular, I was cruising Front St. in S. Philly (A popular street racing spot back then) with my neighbor, Mike. We were in my Dad's 77 TA. Mike was a car guy too, but he was into imports. Not a 'muscle car' guy at all. We were buddy's but he wasn't one of the guys I usually hung out with...And he had never hung out with us at Front St. Anyway, a new (probably '88) Mustang GT pulled up alongside of us at a red light He rev'd the engine and did a little 'bump' to suggest we race. I knew better, but Mike egged me on, so I accepted his challenge. Next thing I know, the Mustang is backing up leaving a full car length gap between us. Essentially giving me a two-car length head start. Well...the light turned green, I 'dropped the hammer', and the guy drove right past us. That left a permanent emotional scar. To this day I can't love Mustangs. I "get" 'em...They look cool and the newest ones are amazing, but I just can't. BTW...My brother's GT (In the old videos above) was much quicker than the Olds 403 I was running in my TA at the time. Even with one leg, that GT always got the jump on us.
Anyway, restoring my original thread isn't going to work. The local copy I have here changed all the image links to point to copies on my hard drive. Plus a bunch of the HTML get's 'escaped' when I try to copy it here. (So it shows up in the text rather than doing what it's supposed to do behind the scenes.) It's too much to clean it all up. BUT...I think what I'll do every once in a while is post an old fav, or one that's relevant to a current project or question.
This leads me to Sensei's question/observation about the dash...
There -were- a few cracks in the dash. At the time a full replacement wasn't available (I think they are now). I considered repairing it, but decided to try one of the dash covers first. I'd seen some crappy installs, but the part was cheap enough to warrant trying it out. I'm pretty sure there's a post or two about that experience. I'll dig it out, clean it up and re-post it here next.
I also still intend to post a summary of my first winter with a 'completed' project. A lot of stuff came up, and there are a couple projects I think you guys might find interesting. Things keep coming up to delay that update, but it's spring now! I want to share my first winter before summer comes! Maybe this weekend.
Thanks for checking in guys! Promise, I'll post something more interesting soon. LOL
Take care.
-Tom
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Based on Sensei's inquiry about the Dash...
Here's another post from the first page of my original project thread. Looks like I didn't mention much about the Dash cover install other than I used the 'Palco' part. At the time (2016) it was 85.00, now it looks like they run between 120.00 and 180.00. For around a hundred bucks I think this was a good part. You do need to take time installing it, and having the dash out of the car allowed us to really work it with a little heat to get a really good
fit. I'd recommend trying one if your dash is in rough shape.
ORIGINAL POST MARCH 24 2016:
Hey TAC....
Didn't get my fuel system last month, but we did get a few projects done...
We removed the T-Top weather striping, cleaned up the channels and installed new weather strip. We also installed new outer window sweeps that came with the kit from F-Body Warehouse. I installed Shiftworks Overdrive shifter conversion and the reverse/neutral safety switch relocation kits and a Palco dash cover. The Palco cover isn't perfect. But it fit relatively well and it is a very big improvement over what was there. For $100 vs $700 for a new dash, I think it'll really good after everything's painted.
I never had a T-top leak problem, except when running through car washes...But the weather-strip was in bad shape:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P2100013_zpshkhizqxf.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/3f0886c2-ef84-411c-97cd-61af1b540ccf)
No surprises...just a lot of cleaning...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P2100008_zpsewmjpuox.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/521e34db-df3b-49bd-9b15-bd320a34e388)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3050039_zpsvvgbeo6h.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/ded19cd1-ff7d-4f35-be6b-af47c9ffa8e4)
And the new weather strip. It's being left just dry fit for now since it'll be pulled out for paint.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3100020_zpswuhz2afd.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/f494c34d-8d23-4d85-aff5-b545d930075d)
Here's what was left of the outer window sweep...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3100020_zpswuhz2afd.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/f494c34d-8d23-4d85-aff5-b545d930075d)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P2230031_zps1l0qqupc.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/7b317b35-cac3-4800-9fb1-c1d5c1a4c3a3)
And the new one installed...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P2230024_zpsgj8ltbqm.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/c7005688-340e-4913-9b5a-9408f2a2960c)
We also disassembled the Tops themselves to clean them up, paint the trim and black out aluminum drip rail. I also used plasti-dipi to re-cover where the original plastic latch ends had worn away. Not sure how the plasti-dip will hold up but it's the closest I could find to the original dip.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3050041_zps5olyd2wa.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/d0e163be-4d2f-4bdb-a44f-82c4e7dc07f4)
There's one nasty chink in the drip rail I couldn't get pushed out, but I like the black much better than the 'bright' drip rails...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3240023_zpswlu6nacj.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/bd5b7239-82a2-4b46-9187-62c7b8c29a71)
Here's the original 'dip' on the end of the latches...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3040036_zps63gohzjt.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/82f02aa2-d466-4009-8e65-a6e6f1182c5f)
And the plasti-dip after...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3090014_zps0pxexisj.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/41f050c5-d749-4905-a88f-68e1b2416ce4)
Finally the Shiftworks kits...
The OD Conversion went in OK, but I was a little disappointed in the feel. The detents were really rough where the shifter cam rides along them. It felt really rough. So I pulled it out and sanded down the bottom edge of the detent plate...
Here you can see what I mean by the rough finish...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3170001_zpssutcqjai.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/6fdaf422-ed71-499f-a9d3-c44decc68fce)
Here's the detent plate installed...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3160067_zpsxohqeba0.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/53828838-565a-4fbe-b9da-08ab2ce1b8c8)
The Reverse/NSS relocation switch install went OK...with one slight annoyance...Maybe I misread the instructions or got a kit that was not packaged properly, but it seemed that the instructions say the two screws to hold the mounting plate are 'provided' in one place, and 'Not included' in another diagram. There were no screws in my kit...so I riveted the mounting plate to the shifter...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3160070_zpsv208cw7p.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/fbc3b08f-ea08-45df-8ee9-0e3c9d323355)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P3160073_zpssdry6mr6.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/3bbf8708-a91f-4155-a9b9-6c5c9a75e221)
And the Dash:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/2016-03-15_zpsiezmvq5u.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/b2beed27-6dc9-4b9b-b8c7-5b3ee548cbf1)
That's it for now...researching electrical stuff and hope to get the fuel system ordered soon.
Modify message
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 10:09:07 PM by TATurbo »
<END ORIGINAL THREAD RE-POST>
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And a snippet from a later post with a Dash cover update:
ORIGINAL THREAD
Reply #43 on: August 22, 2016, 08:13:34 PM
...
We also did some more work on the Dash and steering column so the are ready to go in once the A/C's installed...
Primed and painted with SEM. I decided to go with the a stock looking red interior which has at least 2 shades of red. The Dash, column and console are this SEM 'Napa Red' which is almost an exact match for the stock darker red on these parts...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P6260067_zpsobh94cfb.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/dd3b8152-5e1d-4f72-9bb5-a14e9ca0ec90)
Here you can see how the dash panel is a darker red then the rest of the interior...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P7230370_zpsvuv1tesm.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/b1205688-69dd-47fb-be55-ef2944837acf)
The Dash is all but finished now...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P8210062_zpsu5payfsk.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/824750a6-fbc0-49eb-b06a-c9caee605cdd)
Except for the gauge clusters, which I sent out to AutoInstruments this week...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P8180138_zpsbplgligp.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/274d3959-23f3-4b0b-800e-1c622c2009f2)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P8180127_zps1hpely5h.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/4adf00b7-ed6a-4601-853a-6b3d135668cc)
...
Thanks for checking in.
Take care
Modify message
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 08:55:12 PM by TATurbo »
<END ORIGINAL THREAD REPOST.
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OK. Finally, Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
My first winter with a 'completed' project was interesting. I mentioned earlier on that there was more on the punch-list than I expected. But what sorta surprised me more was how the list seemed to never end. Every time we knocked something off I found something else that needed attention. It was crazy and kept us busy all winter as things tended to snowball.
Here are some of the projects I thought were interesting, noteworthy, or might maybe be useful to someone else...
One of the first things I tackled was my passenger side mirror. It was totally locked up and could not be adjusted. I had never taken one of these apart before and wasn't sure what I'd find inside. I learned that the mirror assembly and the 'bullet' shaped part are held to the post by these two hex screws inside:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091501218_b92a48231f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQMij3)IMG_5239 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQMij3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Unscrew them and the mirror assembly and bullet come off the stem in two peices:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090947531_62d56f7e89_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJsHH)09-IMG_5240 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJsHH) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And, here's why it was locked up...In the pic below you can see all rust and corrosion on the ball joint where it pivots:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091021899_fdc5bb9895_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJQPV)10-IMG_5247 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJQPV) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I filled a small wonton soup container full of Evapo-rust and set the mirror on top so that ball and socket were below the surface. 24 Hrs. later all the rust and corrosion were gone and the mirror is adjusting like new.
Cheap fix win!
Another little cheap win...
These little guys are Lower control arm braces off of a WS6 car:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51090965891_e0d621c04c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJybg)IMG_5258 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJybg) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I didn't know they existed until I was looking at an assembly manual or something and I saw them there. I mentioned them in my original thread...Posting this diagram and asking what #2 was:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50042575126_34f3fa08f1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jf6h8q)1-IMG_3072 (https://flic.kr/p/2jf6h8q) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Someone here tipped me off to a used set for like 40 bucks. I picked them up, cleaned them off and they bolted right in to my non-WS6 car:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091034377_cdef0a905a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJUx4)13-IMG_5333 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJUx4) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
So BAM! My car is now pretty much a WS6 I think! JK...But, I figure for 40 bucks if GM thought they were useful I might as well bolt 'em on.
Can't say I notice a difference, but that might be because I made bigger changes in the front-end department around the same time...Which leads me to my first snowball story:
What got me started on the steering was a small PS Fluid leak.
I thought the leak was coming from my high pressure hose. That was a stock hose I bent and hacked up to make work with my 'older' (SAE fitting) box and the newer metric LS1 pump. Well, upon closer inspection I learned these boxes have a weap hole underneath behind the pulley. Who knew? (LOL. I'm sure a lot of you guys probably did.) Simiilar to a water pump, the PS pump will leak a little when the bearing starts to go. This was a reman ACDelco pump with about 5000 Mi. on it.
So, the 'remove and replace a hose' project turned into making a new hose + buying and installing a new (not Remanufactured) PS pump.
That (of course) lead me to the steering box...
As part of the original project I had replaced the intermediate shaft and all the steering linkage to correct about 3" of play in the steering. The box seemed OK at the time. And for budget reasons I decided to reuse it. I later learned I was running an older style base Camaro Steering box. Which I think is ligher and slower than the TA boxes of the same era. time. Plus the fittings are different than the later PS Pump pressure lines.
THAT conditionlead me to this
Borgeson quick ratio box:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091754275_8e29421cd3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNAx6)01-IMG_5566 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNAx6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The new box and pump made my whole steering system brand new! Awesome right?
Well..No... The snowball kept rolling down hill:
- I still had a fair amount of play in the wheel! Which was super anoying considering all the work and new parts.
Some additional investigation lead me to the intermediate shaft I had purchased early on in this project. This thing...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091021669_77e90b02db_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJQKX)4-IMG_5537 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJQKX) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
This is what I got when I searched for an '81 intermediate shaft, from multiple sources. But I'm not sure it's 'correct'. I think that plastic cover was only used on 3rd Gen's. But I also noticed that I could never get rid of a tiny bit of slop where it fit over the steering column 'DD' connectdion. On top of all that, the was a tiny bit of play in the u-joint I think lives inside the aluminum looking fat part at the top. That whole joint moved just a little, but combine the two and I ended up with still almost 3/4" of play at the wheel!
So...with some more research I came up with this intermediate shaft set up from CPP (Classic Performance Products:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091753445_159ffd6516_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNAhM)3-IMG_5534 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNAhM) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
THAT is CPP PN CSS-1DD730 - Intermediate Shaft (1"DD 3/4x30 Rag joint). CPP said it would fit, but it took some tweeking...
First: The U-Joint that connects to the steering column is a really nice piece CNC'd to precission. My 40 year old Steering column...not so much. The 1" DD U-Joint wouldn't fit over the 1"DD bottom of my steering column. I had to 'clean up' the bottom of the column to get these two peices together. Just sanded it little by little:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091489358_c755e138e2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQMeMy)5-IMG_5539 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQMeMy) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The good news is that that joint no longer has ANY Play in it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091754045_9db98d5d69_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNAt8)04-IMG_5541 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNAt8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
BUT...The shaft was too long to install between the box and column, even when fully collapsed. UGH.
Deep breath...Not too big a deal, just cut it down a little. got out my trusty dremel death wheel and it down to size and slipped it in and fired it up for a test drive of my all new steering!
I didn't even get out of the driveway.
I immediately noticed something wasn't right. I could feel something hitting as I turned the wheel. Felt like resistance I could turn past with a little effort and it was consistently occurring at the same spots in the wheel rotation.
Turns out these posts on the back side of the rag joint were hitting the sub-frame:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091753945_372c9cfa37_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNArp)06-IMG_5543 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQNArp) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
These appear to be a safety feature that 'catch' on the intermediate shaft if the rag joint fails. Luckily I only needed to trim a little off the backside to clear the frame. Leaving the studs long enough to perform their intended function in a worse case scenario.
In the end this intermediate shaft and steering box project was a big win. The steering felt a bit touchy at first. But after a few miles I adjusted to it and it is a huge improvement.
If you need an intermediate shaft do not by one of of the stock replacements like the I did. That original replacement intermediate shaft was crap. It's hard to judge the Borgeson box against what I had in there...Apples and Oranges. I can say the Boregson 800 box's 12.7:1 ratio around 3 turns lock to lock feels like a good fit.
I have more snowball stories from the Winter of 20-21 to share.
I also have a couple stereo upgrades and tweaks I think some of you might find useful and a super cheap cowl brace idea I stole from the internet I wanted to share.
Thanks for checking in!
Take care,
-Tom
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Nice write up Tom. I know what you mean about the twitchy steering. I put a late 80s Iroc quick ratio box in my car as it has the metric fittings and quick ratio. It is very responsive. Not bad, just takes a lottle bit to get used to it. I think mine will be even better once I get an actual alignment. I just did a backyard one (although thorough, still just backyard).
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Nice work, i dont trust myself to any work on steering components :shock: However with this writeup maybe I will someday, I too have some play.
Thanks for digging up the dash post from the archives!
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Thx guys. I think the Borgeson box I installed is essentially the same as the late 80's Iroc box. I was actually looking for one of those GM 3rd Gen Camaro box but the ones I found new were very pricey and I didn't want a reman box. The box from Borgeson was a pretty decent deal I think.
I was prepared to login here to vent some frustration. It's been a roller-coaster week trying to get a few loose ends finished up before A) A first car show outing and B) A planned road trip to TN the first week of May. My car doesn't seem to want to cooperate though.
Instead, I think I'll post a couple of smaller projects that worked out well this past winter with no snowballing....
First is related to interior lighting...
I mentioned in my original thread that (after 30+ years of ownership) I just realized that these indicators for headlight and wiper switches were supposed to be backlit:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50716859413_7b7a05476e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kgFamz)2-IMG_5045 (https://flic.kr/p/2kgFamz) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
There's supposed to be a little prism behind there that picks up light from the Tach and carries it over to that area. Rather than go that route I decided to use a left-over red LED back there. Julie made a little retainer and box to control light to fit back there...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103793226_d326fd3cd9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSiid)IMG_5382 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSiid) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I'm happy to have a little light on that side of the dash...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51104028988_9a8fe10cfc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRTvo5)IMG_5390 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRTvo5) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I had one other LED hanging around...We used that one to replace a fiber optic light that went to the Defrost switch indicator. The fiber optic line seemed 'fine', but it wasn't very effective. Now you can see the little defroster chumpy fine...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103793221_36e29d4c44_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSii8)IMG_5392 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSii8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The other interior tweak I made was to the stereo....
I had installed a sub early in the off season. I went with this small, powered sub from Harman's Infinity line:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103891247_ca1c067ab0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSNre)IMG_5256 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSNre) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Initially I installed this in the trunk facing the rear seat. That setup added some base low, but you couldn't feel the punch, it was not very 'clear' sounding. So, what I did was remove the rear seat and cut a hole in the sound deadener that lives back there...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103891237_d7bf6e21cf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSNr4)IMG_5358 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSNr4) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(I later cleaned and taped it up neatly)
But the key was adding some leftover weather stripping I had to the face of the sub like this...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103793241_8c933f01a0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSiit)IMG_5520 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSiit) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Then I cut the boards and angled the brackets so that I could push the sub right up against the angle of that rear firewall there. With the sub right up against the wall there, and pushing air against the rear seat it totally cleaned up the sound. Now I can feel the punch of the sub much more clearly with less 'noise' from the trunk itself. Here's how it ended up:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103867304_c761e7c6be_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSFjq)IMG_5630 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRSFjq) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I made one additional change to the stereo...I replaced the 25w 2way 'Sound Ordinance' front speakers with the 3.5" Kenwood speakers shown on the right here:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51104899355_43aa5566ed_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRXY7p)IMG_5351 (https://flic.kr/p/2kRXY7p) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
These Kenwoods handle 50W RMS (double the old speakers and double what the head unit is putting through them). And, they have cross-over's built in.
Those two changes really cleaned up the sound of my Alpine head unit. I get a nice clear all around sound stage, biased towards the rear but with nice crisp highs coming out of the dash.
I guess that's it for now. I'll document my more recent frustrations related to replacing an axle and a new (returning) Check Engine light code in a post maybe this weekend.
Thanks for checking in guys.
Take care.
-Tom
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Amazing creativity Tom, this is why I enjoy your updates so much. Congrats on the base module in the rear, the problem I am having is similar -- the whole trunk is completely sealed with two layers of sound deadning by PO and I need to poke some holes in it so that the base can travel into the cabin! I'll do something similar to your solution. Btw, did you consider adding a "vent hole" on the shelf itself? Just curious.
Happy friday folks
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I had looked into a couple of different Subs and researched building a custom box to fit in the side of the trunk...But then I found a deal on this little powered sub so I gave it a shot. Installing it tight against the seat was the only adjustment I made after the initial install disappointment. I hadn't considered or looked into some sort of port in the rear package shelf, Sensei.
The stereo is sorted for now, but other than that this car will not cooperate AT ALL. This winter and spring has been one thing after another. I shared all the fun I had with the car last season, this off-season has been mostly fails! At least that's the way it feels the past couple weeks. I'll try to keep this brief but...
Let's see...Where to start?
This snowball of frustration started rolling downhill in December. I shared the steering project snowballing from what I thought was leaking line to new pump, lines, intermediate shaft and box. Although I'm considering the end result a win...I didn't really share how the car fought me along the way. I spare you the detials, but as an example This is the pile of tools I had under the car near the end of a week (That's right..A week) I spent trying to remove the Pitman arm from the old box:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112528734_5814cbfb22_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSD54q)IMG_5381 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSD54q) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Ultimately I got the box out and took it to a local shop where they torched with an Oxy/Acetylene torch to get the Pitman arm off. But, that was literally a full week and every tool I could muster. Not for the whole steering project...Just getting the Pitman arm off the box!
Then, after fixing a leak in the Passenger side kick panel -DO NOT forget to seal the backside before running Vintage Air AC hoses through there- we started working on a little window adjustment. Just a tweak to seal up small(ish) leak where the T-Top seal meets the seal coming around up the door frame. Plus there the top itself was making some noise when closed up.
Well...The first good look at the T-Top seal revealed that the metal end plate that holds the post had come separated from the glass! Right here...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112558459_cf6ccbd999_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSDdTV)IMG_5460 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSDdTV) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
To get at THAT you need to remove the T-Top Weather strip, and the rail that retains it....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112805406_4587ee584e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSEuiC)IMG_5499 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSEuiC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Just in case you were wondering...Here's the blob that normally holds the end cap to the glass...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113589815_8be168d9b4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSJvtV)IMG_5507 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSJvtV) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Scrape that blob up w/a plastic blade, make a new blob with this stuff...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113589810_0587815896_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSJvtQ)IMG_5510 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSJvtQ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And simply put everything back together. Easy peasy :-x
Then I was able to adjust the window. Which reminded me...While I'm up here I should re-install the windsheidl reveal molding. It had been removed for the glass guy to fix a leak at the top of the windshield. Immediately above my lap of course. But...Hmm...The molding wont clip in place? A closer inspection found that some of the sealant he used got on a couple of the retainer clips which changed them from 'Retainer clips' to just 'clips'.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091021939_6537644f9b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJQQB)12-IMG_5263 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQJQQB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I just needed to pick the rubbery sealant off of the clips. Not a 'hard' job but, nerve wracking. That sealanat is tought stuff. And, I was certain my razor, or screw driver, or poker chumpy would slip up and put a nice divot in the paint. (They didn't) So, after an evening of my garage time 2-2.5 Hrs.), I got the reveal molding reinstalled EXCEPT...On a quick drive the next day at around 50MPH I hear a horrible very high-frequency noise coming from the upper windshield reveal molding area on the PASSENGER SIDE! WTF!? Turns out I hadn't engaged that end of the top molding into the corner piece far enough. Another nerve-wracking encounter with the pointy molding removal tool...
I think I need to stop here for now...I can feel my blood pressure rising and it's getting late. I would've started earlier, but I had to take time to write up my latest problem for Vintage Air Tech Support. Ugh.
Thanks for checking in guys and listening to my crappy story.
I'm sure this story will have a happy ending at some point...Or will it?
Hmm...
Take care.
-Tom
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I'm feeling a little better today. But, I feel like I can't stop pulling that snowballing frustration thread just yet...
In case it wasn't crystal clear, although things were getting 'done'...What started as a little ball of frustration continued growing as it collected flakes rolling down my hill of projects to complete before the weather breaks.
After getting the T-Top fixed and the windows adjusted(again) we had a couple of decent short drives.
That's when a noise coming from the right rear of the car either got much worse or just sounded much worse because most of the other noises are gone. With a couple of long road trips planned for this season, I decided we needed to address the RR axle (and related wheel wobble). The noise and what I thought was an intermittent wobble from the right rear started after an unintentional off-road excursion the weekend after my 21st birthday. After some research, it seemed like a relatively simple, and not too expensive project.
I purchased this replacement axle from Dutchman Axles:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51116257589_ee72a1e320_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSYbw2)IMG_5672 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSYbw2) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I chose Dutchman simply because they had a specific PN cross-referenced with the stock PN I found in the '76-81 Pontiac Parts guide' (RR Axle GM PN: 1263988). Dutchman indicates that their 'stock replacement' axle (PN 'SR #63) is made of a higher quality metal alloy and more splined area. I don't know about all of that, but it IS straight and shiny.
Altogether, with the lugs installed and bearing & Seal included the parts were $180.00.
Replacing the axle is supposed to be a relatively simple job.
BUT
Step one: Remove the wheel. On the first step I found that one of my lugnuts had was cross-threaded the last time it was
installed. Not a big deal. The new axle has new studs, but the lugnut itself was hosed: Add Lugnuts to parts list.
Step two: Remove the brake caliper. Well...The top caliper bolt would not back out. It just kept turning and turning! WTF?
I still don't quite understand what happened but something looking like a washer was in-between the backing
plate and the caliper. Whatever it was was metal, and the caliper bolt was threaded through it. I assumed it was
some sort of threaded insert that should be living pressed into the caliper where the caliper bolt passes through.
But, there is no pressed in thread insert in that inside caliper bolt hole?! I don't know where this thing came
from, or how it got there, or where it's supposed to live but it was turning with the caliper bolt and not allowing
the bolt to back out. Ultimately I was able to get needle nose vice grips in there to hold it while we unscrewed
the caliper bolt.
With the caliper off the rotor, the inside brake pad came apart! The pad's backing plate just came divorced from
the pad! WTF!
Two steps in, and I have two new parts to order and a caliper problem to investigate.
Rolling right along...
We got the cover off, no problem.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117302660_0b710fa4ca_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kT4xbu)IMG_5681 (https://flic.kr/p/2kT4xbu) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Next to come out is a bolt that retains the pinion shaft which goes through the middle of the Diff side gears. Remove this little bolt...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117441195_411a7a0bfa_3k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kT5fn2)IMG_5683 (https://flic.kr/p/2kT5fn2) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I wanted to be careful with that little retainer bolt, so as not to break it off in the pinion shaft.
I used my small 1/4 ratchet ...Surprise, surprise...not much resistance and the bolt came right out. Phew!
BUT...The Pinion shaft wont pull out? Feels like it's hitting something?!
After closer inspection, I found...The retaining bolt HAD broken off inside the pinion shaft.
At this point, I figured I'm screwed! I'll need to buy a new Diff center section, get the car towed, pay someone to install it. OR I could order a whole new rear end and just drop it in myself?! Neither being a cheap option.
UGH!
But, here's the happy ending!
The next night I had a closer look into the hole where the other half of the bolt/pin still lived. My little magnetic picker-upper chumpy was exactly small enough to fit into the hole deep enough to feel the end of the bolt left inside. And, when I twisted the magnetic chumpy I could see the broken half of the bolt was spinning freely...It was backing out as I turned the magnet! Turns out the retainer broke right on the very last thread...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51116257609_33b089c86c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSYbwn)IMG_5683 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSYbwn) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Not sure how it broke -there- where it was still turning freely, but whatever! It backed out no problem! And, the pinion shaft dropped right out!
Phew!
The next step amazes me...That pinion shaft keeps the axle from moving inward. With it out of the way you can push the axle in towards the center of the diff to expose the c-clip that keeps the axle from moving outward. In the pic below you can see it, partially falling out on the right side of that 'S' shaped spring, against the spider gear on the right.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117302650_69e8f09619_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kT4xbj)IMG_5688 (https://flic.kr/p/2kT4xbj) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The C-Clip slides right out and you can remove the axle. Crazy that's all that holds the axle in, but it works I guess.
Things were looking up! So, we made a parts store run to rent the axle-bearing puller tool. This is where it gets REALLY crazy...Julie just happened to find a replacement retainer pin on the shelf at the parts store!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51115941347_44bf9d5131_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSWyvz)IMG_5701 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSWyvz) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I was excited, things are finally going our way! I even found real-life professional, bearing and seal installation tools from a defunct GM dealership. They were used, and cheap, but best of all they were local. I could just stop by and pick them up! The rental tool worked perfectly to remove the bearing and seal:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51115941357_08b6cd7c1d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSWyvK)IMG_5691 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSWyvK) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51116504901_fa576777cc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kSZs32)IMG_5690 (https://flic.kr/p/2kSZs32) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And the bearing and seal installation tools made easy work of installing the new ones. With those in place the new axle slid right back in place!
With everything back together I took the car for a short drive around the neighborhood to make sure everything back there would stay together. WOW. I didn't realize how much noise that rear was making, or how much vibration it introduced into the car until it was fixed. The car cruised and coasted more smoothly and quieter than ever!
I went back home to pick Julie up for a longer shake-down ride.
Julie on-board we made it literally one mile down the road when....Bing...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/P5110034_zpspbzd4r43.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/6b146e56-1969-41d5-a909-20234aefe3c4)
WTF NOW!?!
P0171 + P0172 'Too Lean' Bank One & Bank Two.
These are the same codes that I couldn't solve back when we first got the LS1 on the road. Right before my trip to drop the car off in TN for body and paint. Back then I had to take the car to a tuner to get them cleared out.
UGH!
The snowball started picking up speed (and more flakes of frustration) again.
Soldiering on to try to figure out the 'too lean' codes we started looking at the fuel system. I decided to drop the gas tank (for like the 84th time) to re-install the fuel pump the car was happy with last summer. (I had swapped that Accell FP out for a Walbro pump earlier this winter. Because A) I had the (presumably) higher quality Walbro pump on hand and B) The sending unit seal was leaking). Since that's the only thing in the fuel system that has changed, it seemed like a good place to start.
Out to the garage to get things arranged to pull the tank. I fire up the car to bump it forward a few inches so we have room at the rear and SMACK-SMACK-SMACK-SMACK! The f'ing AC compressor starts making an awful, loud 'whacking' sound!!!!
WTF! NO WAY!!! I mean...Listen to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6tk0wqZSs8
Now we are going through the fuel system for the Lean codes, and are in touch with Vintage Air tech support about the AC Compressor noise. I don't want to jinx anything, but I think we might've found the cause for one of those problems.
So as not to look like a total idiot unnecessarily I'll have to keep you in suspense while I figure out whether or not I'm right.
Thanks again for listening to my rants. It is therapeutic for sure!
Take care guys.
-Tom
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Tom,
Really sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. The one step forward, two steps back routine can really be frustrating. I know you will get past these current issues and be able to enjoy your car again.
Question about your speedometer. I see it has a check engine light and trip odometer, yet it’s a 160 MPH Speedo. Did you modify your original, or buy this replacement somewhere? Are the odometer and speedometer portions accurate?
My apologies for the thread hijack.
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Tom, Im with Larry, sorry to hear about this. But I suppose thats part of the 'fun' of having an old car.
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Tom, sorry man! Re-occurring issues that were previously fixed are not fun.
Did you consider something like this to monitor fuel pressure, to take out some of the guess work for your codes?
* fuel pressure "take off": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014BDDXK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014BDDXK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
* fuel pressure gauge: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J48RUE2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J48RUE2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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Question about your speedometer. I see it has a check engine light and trip odometer, yet it’s a 160 MPH Speedo. Did you modify your original, or buy this replacement somewhere? Are the odometer and speedometer portions accurate?
My apologies for the thread hijack.
Tom re-did the 81 speedo that comes with the CEL. Not sure why it's red though?
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Yeah...I keep reminding myself how much fun we had last summer. Gotta take the good with the bad. We'll get things ironed out soon hopefully.
We found a probable cause for the lean codes. I haven't verified it yet, but I want to share the gory pics with you guys. Even if it's not the cause...it looks nasty! I txt'd a pic to my brother. His response was "EEEWWW!".
But before I get into that... Regarding the speedo and CEL:
Sensei is right...I had the '81 gauges refaced and recalibrated. When I sent them out to get refurbished by AutoInstruments I asked them to change the tach to run up to 8000 RPM w/a 6500RPM redline and change the speedo to 160MPH. There was a trade-off to this change, They said they had to use an older font, and if you notice there's no yellow before the redline. Not a big deal, but I would've preferred the correct 81 font. I'll never use a 160MPH Speedo, but I think it looks cooler. Having the tach match the engine + a working CEL was the main idea behind the change. The CEL looks red in that earlier pic, but it is the stock yellow color in real life.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50357199638_e7fb0401c3_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jHTP2Y)1-IMG_3985 (https://flic.kr/p/2jHTP2Y) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Regarding that fuel pressure gauge... I do have a FP gauge on the fuel rail from investigating previous fuel system related issues. But its a good suggestion...I -have- been thinking of installing one I can monitor while driving. The FP appears 'OK' at the rail. But I can't see it under load. And, I think 'pressure' and 'volume' are like two sides of the same coin? Like, I think you can have 60 lbs of pressure and not be flowing enough volume to keep the engine happy? (Please...Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have any 'actual' education about fluid dynamics! or fuel systems for that matter). I do know that both this time and the last time I saw the computer complain about a lean condition, the fuel pressure wasn't below normal.
Anyway...Check this out...
As I mentioned Earlier this winter I found evidence of fuel leaking from the top of the tank. At the time I was running an Accell pump and had a brand new Walbro pump on the shelf. I figured I'd fix the sending unit seal and put the better pump in at the same time. (This was probably late January.) When I reinstalled everything I used some 'Rubber Gasket dressing' on the sending unit's rubber gasket...'Cause it was leaking I figured this would help seal it. Sounds logical right?
When I pulled the sending unit this week, look what I found:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51121180840_f7356c9098_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTpq2E)IMG_5720 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTpq2E) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The sealant I placed on the gasket never set up! It appears to have liquified and run down all over everything!
I think this is an example of what happens if you use the wrong type of stuff around fuel parts? Maybe?
Look how gummed up the sock got!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51121180835_bfa6ee1590_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTpq2z)IMG_5722 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTpq2z) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
EEWWW!
It doesn't appear this junk got past the sock but I wont know for sure until I get it back together and fire it up. I'm going to put the old Accel pump back in because the care was happy with that one last season. Hopefully, I can get it back together this weekend.
There was one other thing I wanted to show you guys. I mentioned in my last post some sort of weird 'threaded insert' looking thing I found on the RR caliper between the caliper bolt ear and the backing plate. I still don't know what this is, where it came from or how it got where it is. Below is a pic of the RR caliper looking toward the front of the car. You can see the 'washer' or 'insert' between the backing plate and the caliper here:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51119814527_c484547a39_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kThpSx)IMG_5735 (https://flic.kr/p/2kThpSx) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
To get the caliper bolt out I had to grab it like this to keep it from turning with the bolt:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51120134344_32feb99bea_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTj3WC)IMG_5739 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTj3WC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Here's a pic of it up close. It definitely looks threaded and around the edge it has ridges like an I think a threaded insert might?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51120297808_5a9b2d72bc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTjTwY)IMG_5743 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTjTwY) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I ended up replacing the caliper and brake pads. Hopefully, I don't have sealing issues like I had with the first two RR calipers I tried using back when we first did the brake system! Fingers crossed.
Thanks again for checking in and for the encouraging words.
I'll keep plugging away...I hope to have it back on the road before next weekend. (I'm registered for a first of the season show next Saturday at the King of Prussia Mall). I've already decided I'm not taking the car to TN the first week of may. But, I'm still considering driving it to California...Coast to Coast this summer. We'll see if it decides to start cooperating!
Take care!
-Tom
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That lock bolt ordeal reminded me of the time I got an axle saver bearing stuck in the axle tube. I thought I was going have to bring the whole axle assembly to the driveline place to have it removed. But after a couple of days of thinking, I used a Dremel cut off wheel to carefully cut it out .
We all have periods where it seems like it's one thing after the next, it can be frustrating. But you have done great work and will get it done.
I have a sub like that in my Jeep and have been happy with it. Whew, that pitman arm was a lot of work! Your dash and gauges look great. I think that washer on caliper might be for centering on the disk.
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Hi Tom,
While doing my engine upgrade I installed a new tank, sending unit and electronic fuel pump. The tank manufacturer recommended using Permatex Fuel Resistant sealant for the sending unit and fuel pump gasket. Since you were having problems this is something you may want to consider.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51121649642_a12f045b12_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTrPos)IMG_7960 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTrPos) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Thanks for the encouraging words.
Ahh Yes! 'Fuel Resistant'! Is that tube the blue stuff? IIRC when I first installed this tank (way back early on in the project) the install kit had some blue dressing/sealant we used? I probably used it all taking the sending unit in and out so many times.
The new installation kit I bought had a cork gasket, which seemed like an odd material. But, apparantly that's a thing.
The rubber one that was in there didn't seal the last two times I installed it. So, I'm going with the cork and no dressing or sealant this time.
For the record this is the stuff NOT TO USE:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51121900632_fc576156d9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kTt6ZS)REDE3427 (https://flic.kr/p/2kTt6ZS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Almost got the fuel system back together. But, I broke the brand new Walbro pump in the process. I'm telling myself it was probably screwed up anyway. I woul've had everything reinstalled this evening, but the last wire I went to hook up (Ground for either the pump or fuel gauge) broke! (Of course it did) Another item for the 'if i ain't broke don't fix it file. I decided to clean it off...give it a light scuff so it's nice and shiny and makes a good connection. it a little scuff before I bolted it to the tail panel. And, the terminal fell off.
Hopefully there's enough room up there to install a new terminal on the wire, otherwise, I'll need to drop the tank again. Ugh.
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Hello again TAC.
Hope everyone is well.
I wanted to check in to note a couple of the winter projects I had worked on before I forgot. And, to provide an update on the P0171-P0174 'Lean Bank 1, Lean Bank 2' codes that came up a couple weeks back.
First, a couple of little things to share from my winter...
I had to replace my Dakota Digital Speedo box. Not very interesting but I wanted to share my experience in case others are using or thinking of using one of these. This is my third box...You may recall that the first one failed when water apparently got inside. Probably while being washed with the fenders off during the body and paint work. They replaced it under warranty. The second one failed for no apparent reason near the end of last season. So, I installed the newer version...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51133380139_041d52cbbb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUtWsp)IMG_5674 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUtWsp) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
These boxes work 'OK'. The ones I've had haven't been very accurate though. Both the old ECD-100 and the newer ECD-200 seem to be accurate in the 10MPH around where they were calibrated at insall. I calibrated them at around 40 MPH. Between like 30 and 50 it's accurate. Outside of that range it is less accurate the farther away from the calibrated speed you get. So, around 55 it's off by around 5 MPH, around 70 MPH it's off by 10 MPH. etc. etc.
The one nice thing about the newer ECD-200 you can calibrate it via bluetooth and a phone app.
OK, and I wanted to share this little tid-bit. One of the unexpected things that cropped up...Screwed up fender flares which scratched up my paint...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132604741_aa41c862aa_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXXt)IMG_5616 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXXt) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I had checked these a couple of times over the summer, but it looks like I missed one coming loose at some point. When I looked into it I found that the stud inside had pulled out of its hole and was gone:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132815203_fdf8fd8855_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUr3w8)IMG_5617 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUr3w8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I figured if the driver side was messed up I should check the passenger side. BOTH Posts were no longer in place on the passenger side! The only thing holding it up there were the screws in the wheel well and the connection to the center piece.
I ended up finding a couple similarly sized bolts, cutting the heads off and epoxying them into the holes where the original studs lived before they split town.
Finally, a winter project maybe someone might be interested in...a 'cowl brace'.
I got this idea from someone on the internet who did something simlar to reinforce the cowl where their PTFB G-Braces mount. The area in question is the seam across the top of the cowl where the firewall and upper cowl meet. The 2 peices of sheet metal are spot welded and seam sealed from the factory. The brace 'sandwiches' that area between two additional peices of steel.
I got two pieces of 1" x 3/16" x36" Flat bar steel from the hardware cut them to length and clamped them to the cowl like this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132604706_86cd821665_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXWS)IMG_5561 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXWS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I marked where I thought the bolts should go, and drilled the top piece first. Then, put that in position on the cowl to mark for holes through the sheet metal. Then, finally installed the lower piece, marked it from the holes in the cowl and bolted it all together...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132604716_4e42151656_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXX3)IMG_5698 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXX3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132815173_2b6c3b966a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUr3vB)IMG_5699 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUr3vB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Not sure how effective this is, but the idea came from an autocrosser/track day set up 2nd Gen. And, it only cost a couple bucks, so I figured I'd steal his idea. I'll be installing G-Braces too. So, this seemed like an OK idea.
OK On to my 'too lean' codes...Still working on those.
After installing the new (old) pump the Fuel Trims were still way high and the problem persisted.
I put a container up at the fuel rail connection and ran the pump a few times.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51133715855_4d1aa3f4c8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUvEfB)IMG_5761 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUvEfB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Fuel is flowing OK there and appears to be clean. I pulled the fuel rail and injectors out to check them...I can't test the injectors, but we did find some gunk in the rail. And, the fuel that came out of the rail had some debris in it, along with something else. Not sure what it was/is looked like egg drop soup? Little balls/bubles of something that is not fuel? I suspect that gasket dressing made it's way up to the rail and injectors and that maybe the injectors are clogged up with the gasket dressing crap. Because these injectors are original to the junk-yard motor, and because we found some gunk up there I broke down and ordered new fuel injectors.
I also ordered a new 10Micron fuel filter. (I had been running a 40Mic filter, which I sorta knew was not sufficient for EFI.)
Oh, I also noticed that my fuel pressure gauge never zero's out?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51132604751_b37ab168ba_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXXD)IMG_5772 (https://flic.kr/p/2kUpXXD) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I always figured I was retaining 10 lbs of pressure in the fuel rail when the car was off, but now I don't know. Maybe part of my problem IS related to the fuel pressure being low. I mean, if that gauge is 'off' by 10 lbs, I could've been running less pressure than I thought and less than what the PCM was tuned on. IDK. I happen to have an extra gauge around somewhere. I'll put that other one on when I get things back together.
Hopefully that'll be this weekend.
I'll let you know how things go.
Thanks for checking in.
Take care
-Tom
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Safe bet to get new injectors, but I'll bet that gauge is the issue with the fuel pressure being off. Good diagnostic skills!
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Not sure if I mentioned it before but I had similar codes and was chasing fuel supply problems but it endup being a dirty MAF sensor. It wouldn't hurt to buy a can of MAF cleaner and give it a good cleaning. I was amazed at how bad my engine ran once it went to closed loop.
Also, doesn't really matter but my Dakota Digital box is still working. I also checked it to the GPS and it seems really close. It's crazy that you have been through 3 of them! I feel bad for recommending it now.. :(
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Ahh, Yes FormTA...A bad signal from the MAF can cause these codes. I bet you did mention that before, and that's probably where I learned it from...I did check and clean the MAF with an appropriate MAF sensor cleaner before I started digging into the fuel rail and injectors. Thanks for the suggestion, it's good that it was brought up in case someone's chasing these codes in the future. One thing I didn't do is actually check the MAF signal. IIRC you can expect to see a certain voltage or frequency or something at idle as read on a multi-meter. If it's out of range that'll indicate a possible MAF issue (Dirty, malfunctioning, voltage problem?).
The symptoms persisted after cleaning the MAF.
I'll definitely let you guys know where this ends up.
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Ryan told me about this code reader.
https://www.amazon.com/obdator-Bluetooth-Scanner-Automotive-Diagnostic/dp/B074DWH8JR/ref=asc_df_B074DWH8JR/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241896598945&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=718709886295761890&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015111&hvtargid=pla-571956337377&psc=1
It was the best $13 I spent. It gives you live data and it works great! If yiu had this you would know what your air fuel ratio was and we could compare numbers. It also gives you MPH (if you ecm had the right axel code loaded) that is another way I check my speedometer box.
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Thanks FormTA. That Bluetooth scanner would probably be step up from the cheap parts store one I use now.
I was just dropping in for a quick update because today was a good day in the garage, and with my recent rants I figured a 'feel good' post should be added as soon as progress warranted. So, here it is...
I'm pretty certain I got the P0171 & P0174 'Bank 1 too lean', 'Bank 2 too lean' codes fixed!
The cause appears to have been a combination of that Gasket dressing crap making its way up to the injectors AND a faulty, inaccurate fuel pressure gauge.
Luckily, the injectors I ruined were old...For budget reasons I didn't replace them when I went over the used LS1 to install it in the car. I had figured I'd need to replace them sooner or later, so that helps relieve some of the sting of my mistakes of A) Using non-fuel resistant gasket dressing on the sending unit gasket
and
B) Running a cheap 40Mic fuel filter.
Injectors get expensive really fast. I ended up going with a set of remanufactured/reconditioned stock LS1 injectors from 'Fuel Inejector Connection'. There were a couple reasons I went this route, not the least of which was cost. These were $299 for a set of 8. We'll see how they hold up, but my initial impression is very good. They were packaged nicely and they look and feel like a quality injector. Especially next to a cheap 'knock-off', Made in China 'Bosch style' injector I checked out (and immediately returned at first sight) from PartsGeek.
The LTFT's are now better then I've ever seen them in this car. And, the car feels more responsive and peppy (At least it did tonight...I'm pretty sure these old cars have moods.)
The other contributing factor was the fuel pressure gauge I had installed on the fuel rail...
Similar to the super cheap fuel injector example above, for the "You get what you pay for" file:
I had installed a cheap 'JEGS' brand fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail during a previous fuel system troubleshooting go-round immediately during the initial engine shakedown. The JEGS gauge was showing 60+ PSI while running. As noted in my prior post, after taking everything apart I realized this gauge never zero's out. After taking it off the fuel rail it still indicated around 12 PSI. My new Marshall fuel pressure gauge showed 40PSI when we initially fired the car up with its new injectors installed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51143555741_fefcd84acc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVo6iP)IMG_5858 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVo6iP) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I could hear the idle clean up as I adjusted the pressure up to 60PSI on the new gauge. And, as noted above, the car was running great today.
OK. So that's the good news. But, I have a new issue that has cropped up.
For some reason the serpentine belt keeps popping forward one rib on the AC Compressor.
If you remember, the first indication of something funky was a noise from that area a week or two back. That 'smacking' sound shown in the video link above just went away as quickly as it showed up. When I fired up the car yesterday the belt (A brand new one I installed during this winter work) was 'off' by one rib. It would immediately jump forward after resetting it.
Today I installed new shorter belt (I had known the tensioner was running near its max range limit), and that seemed to help a bit. It didn't jump off imediately, and checked out a couple times during a 3 hour drive. But, alas when I checked it after the drive, it was out of place again.
All the pulley's around there seem OK, no unusual movement or feeling in spinning them. And they appear to be aligned.
The only thing on the front of the engine we changed this winter was the PS Pump. That's the only pulley that has any real adjustment available to it (I could pull it further out on the shaft I guess). But, that's two pulley's removed from the AC compressor?
Whatever...I'll play with it. We had a nice long drive tonight. So, I'm feeling much better now. I still have a couple things on my winter punch list to knock off. The progress today has recharged my battery so to speak. I'll let you know what I find with the belt alignment.
Thanks again for checking in.
-Tom
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Oh! I almost forgot!
You guys didn't get to see's a pic of my spiffy new fuel filter:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51144905812_94af9a3d16_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVv1CU)IMG_5859 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVv1CU) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The filter above is a FuelLab, 10 Micron filter. I thought a 10Micron filter was the minimum filter you'd want to use with the LS1 fuel injectors. But, now that I've looked a little closer, It looks like the 'Corvette Filter/Regulator' setup normally used in an LS Swap is 5 Microns. Crap...Now I need to consider buying another filter. These things aren't cheap!
Speaking of cheap...
I wanted to show you guys the cheap fuel injectors I decided to return for the remanufactured ones. These were $22.00 ea. @ PartsGeek compared to > $70.00+ for new ACDelco 12456154's elsewhere.
The lack of English on the box (except for the giant 'Made in China' sticker) was the first thing that made me raise an eyebrow. But...I think this is German...Germans know engineering and manufacturing...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51145581611_c817539f11_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVytwB)IMG_5876 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVytwB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
So I had a closer look. I immediately noticed that these felt lighter, less weighty than the ones I took out. Aside from how they 'felt', the plastic housing had rough edges compared to the ACDelco part. Here you can see the unfinished edges around where the plug goes:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51145803588_93e8970fff_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVzBvN)IMG_5871 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVzBvN) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And, the finish of the bottom plate looks 'rougher'...Less precise in how it was put together:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51146362894_a7886bab86_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVCtM1)IMG_5872 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVCtM1) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And I'm not sure what this white ring around the top inlet is...But look at the cheap one on the left compared to the used ACDelco part on the right:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51145803583_1158a35a6d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVzBvH)IMG_5873 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVzBvH) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
These might perform fine, but I thought a quality refurbished set might be more reliable. The ones from InjectionConnection come with a 3yr. warranty and (@ around $40.00 ea.) they split the difference in price between the apparent Knock-off's shown above and brand new name-brand injectors. We'll see how they work out.
For the record: Another consideration for trying to keep the injector cost down is that I know I'll be upgrading them to larger injectors after a couple of seasons (As part of my Turbo-izing plans). I couldn't make that investment now because of budget reasons and because the larger injectors would require some tuning I think.
Anyway...On to my current issue...The Accessory belt problem:
The belt keeps moving forward over the edge of the AC compressor pulley like this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51145803608_47ef951e43_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVzBw9)IMG_5865 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVzBw9) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I didn't change anything over there on the AC Compressor bracket this winter. And, this wasn't a problem last season. Initially, after I noticed it the belt would jump over immediately after being put back in place. I knew the tensioner was always running near the minimum of it's travel. So, I installed a new belt....No changed. Then, I thought a smaller belt, getting the tensioner more in it's intended range might help. That seemed to help. But, eventually it ends up back over the edge.
I didn't notice any unusual play or 'action' in the AC Compressor pulley, the tensioner pulley, or the idler there. And, the seemed to be aligned OK. But, after seeing these pics I double-checked with straight edge and the tensioner is definitly forward farther than I think it should be....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51145581576_aab7fd3822_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVytw1)IMG_5867 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVytw1) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51145581606_5472d86c7b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVytww)IMG_5862 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVytww) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
So, although I still have a couple little items from my Winter list my next task will be digging into that tensioner to see what's going on there.
I'm sure that pretty soon everything will be ironed out and I'll have another great season of cruising and trusting my ride to go anywhere the road suggests...It's all 'part of the experience' as my brother would say.
Thanks for checking in guys.
Take care.
-Tom
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Maybe try adding a flat washer or two behind the tension pulley to shim it out towards the rad a bit.
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That tensioner is definitely the issue. It looks like it's bent out of shape somehow? Maybe it's worn out internally or something because it appears to be bent in a way that is pulling the belt off of the AC unit.
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Without seeing it in person I tend to agree with Ryan.
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Awesome update Tom, hope the new injectors work!
I should know this from reading your posts, but remind me why arent you using the vette filter/reg setup?
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If you are interested I have interior parts that would match your interior. I have the center console, kick panels, door panels, window sails, seat belts. I will have more in a couple weeks once I finish my interior.
Let me know.
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Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it. It's a little strange that I didn't see the misalignment while eyeballing things directly. When it's seems so obviously out of whack in the pics.
This AC mount bracket is a Qwik Performance part from Vintage air. The compressor, idler, and tensioner are all mounted on the bracket together. The way it's put together there's not much room for trying to shim or adjust things. I'm going to TN this week, so I won't get to mess with it again until next week. Because the part is relatively cheap I decided to order a new one now so it'll be here when we get back. I'll throw it on and we'll see what happens.
RVANBEL - Thanks for the offer. The only thing I really need to tidy up my interior is the two big rear seat wheel-well/arm rest pieces. Even after refurbishing mine are still a little rough. if your's are in good shape, and you are getting rid of them, PM me.
Sensei,
That's a good question about why I'm not using the Corvette Fuel pressure regulator/filter setup. Initially I did have one installed.
I forget the exact sequence of events, but right when we got the motor fired up I had a couple issues that appeared to be related to fuel pressure. I think the first issue was that my first Walbro pump was spewing fuel out of its pressure relief valve. I probably wouldn't have known about it if that relief valve hole hadn't just happened to have been perfectly aligned with the vent hole in the sending unit top. When the pump ran it was making a weird noise and shooting fuel out of the vent line! It was weird...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvfpKq4QygI&t=16s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvfpKq4QygI&t=16s)
The second issue was with P0171/P0174 codes.
I tried a couple of different brands of the 'Vette filter/regulator, but couldn't get a consistent fuel pressure reading at the rail. The gauge up there would vary from like 50 with one regulator/filter to 80 with another. As part of that troubleshooting, I decided to install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and separate filter. Knowing what I know now, some of those weird readings could've been me using a crappy fuel pressure gauge to measure things.
Thanks for checking in guys. I'll post up next week after I get the tensioner replaced.
Take care.
-Tom
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Alright...Back from my road-trip (Which, BTW was supposed to be in the TA).
Julie and I got into the Accessory belt issue and, Well...I'm reminded once again that I'm an amateur at this stuff...
We pulled the pulley off the tensioner and it was immediately apparent it was failing.
It looked like the bearing surface was discolored, which I think indicates overheating...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51166944953_c72f07ee72_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kXrY76)IMG_6029 (https://flic.kr/p/2kXrY76) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51166047217_a033d3fbde_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kXnneT)IMG_6030 (https://flic.kr/p/2kXnneT) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And look at the front edge of the tensioner itself where the pulley rides...it's all torn up...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51166713986_ac1b21c412_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kXqMrU)IMG_6031 (https://flic.kr/p/2kXqMrU) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Curious. How/why would it start failing like that?
We found out quickly when we went to remove the tensioner from the AC bracket. The top bolt attaching the tensioner to the bracket was loose. Ugh! I thought I checked all of these when I first heard that smacking sound. Apparently, I missed the bolt that hides behind the pully.
Another self-inflicted wound and another lesson learned this winter.
At least it should be an easy fix.
I'd love to end this post describing how we fired the car up, tested everything out and verified it's fixed, BUT...
Upon entering the garage tonight after a week away, I noticed I had left one of the doors open last week.
I suppose that's another lesson someone else might learn from my long winter. Leaving the interior lights of a 1981
Turbo Trans-Am on for > 7 days will definitely kill your battery. Now, I can't say this applies to -all- late second gen
F-Bodies but it might.
Thanks for checking in guys.
Take care.
-Tom
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Glad you figured it out Tom. Looks like it will be a very easy fix. :cool:
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OMG!
I Went out this evening to put a couple miles on the car. Fired it up and it immediately ejected the accessory belt on to the garage floor!
WFT is going on!?! This is getting frediculous!
Long story short...I happen to have a second, new tensioner on hand. The first new tensioner I installed is apparently defective. It doesn't have as much travel as the second new tensioner?
The second new tensioner seems to be holding up...for now.
I'm sure that'll be the last issue for a while. LOL.
-Tom
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How'd you make out with the tensioner issue Tom?
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Thanks for asking Rye...
The accessory belt issue is fixed. The second new tensioner corrected the problem. I'm about %80 sure the cause was one of the tensioner mounting bolts came loose at some point. Running the tensioner that way caused abnormal wear on the bearing and tensioner itself.
I should mention one other thing...What's up with Gates products? I had trouble last year with a squeaky belt. Replaced the Gates belt that was installed w/another brand and it went away. Then, the Gates replacement tensioner was defective. Finally, after fixing the tensioner we installed a new belt. With Gates again...This belt was also noisy. It didn't squeak this time, it sounded more like a repeating 'wooshing' sound. I put the old belt back on and it went away. My brother had issues with the accessories on the 383 in his C3 'Vette. Slipping and squeaking Gates belts. Replaced with a different brand and the noise went away.
Needless to say I'll be staying way from Gates stuff as much as possible.
I've put several hundred miles on the car since the accessory belt fix and the car's been fine. (Knock on wood).
After the past winter, it's sort of strange to not have anything important to fix, or some problem to solve.
There are just a few little things that need attention now. One that has me concerned is an issue with the front fender decals. They appear to be delaminating? Whaver the white discoloration in the pic below is...It does not wash off...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51221815623_27b22796bc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m3icf8)IMG_6103 (https://flic.kr/p/2m3icf8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I sent a message to Phoenix Graphics last week but haven't received a response yet.
And...This nuisance with the hood tach:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51220891507_b7e9ed3c22_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m3dsx6)IMG_6057 (https://flic.kr/p/2m3dsx6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The gauges we used in the hood scoop were inexpensive Intelletronix units. The good news is they have a lifetime warranty. The bad news is I have to pull the cluster apart.
The car's 'good' now. However, I still think I need a tune to dial it in better and mess with the Transmission settings(I think). I had an appointment to get it checked it out later this month. But, I had to cancel that for budgetary reasons.
Ya know..I just realized...with my old build thread gone there's not much in the way of recent pics of the car here anymore. I'll rectify that next time.
Thanks for checking in.
Take care.
-Tom
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Glad you got the fueling and accessory issues all figured out Tom.
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Good deal Tom. Theres a show GMC/Pontiac show in Mcungie this weekend. I will be hitting something local, but would be a good drive for you.
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I'm glad too! My first off season with an actual hobby car was frustrating.
Thanks for the heads up Kerry. Macungie would be nice drive from here, but I have plans...We registered for a show at the Pennhurst Asylum on that day (Sunday 6-6). I've never been to Pennhurst...But a car show at an abandoned, haunted asylum sounded interesting when I happened across it online a while back. Plus, it had a cool name "Pennhurst Fuel and Fire Auto Show" (It it's a fund raiser for a fire department). Anyway, I registered for it a couple months ago. I did make a note of it for next season. It says it's the 42nd annual, so it must be decent.
Saturday, I'm going to drive over to Lakehurst NJ for Tune Time Performance's yearly 'Customer appreciation' show. Tune Time was the shop that figured out and corrected (via tuning) the P0171/P0174 codes I had to get corrected for the drive down to TN for body and paint.
Wow...That was way back in April 2019! This'll be the first time they've seen it since:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7835/32610798487_dd529aa92e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RFGSfk)IMG_4015 (https://flic.kr/p/RFGSfk) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I've been taking cars to these guys for like 12 years now. I know because my Turbo'd '04 Grand-Prix was the first car I took there when it busted a valve spring 30 days after the 5 year drive-train warranty expired. So I'm certain it was fall 2009.
That Turbo'd 6 pulled like a train after they were done with it. Man, I loved that car!
I'm pretty sure this car came up in my original thread somewhere. So, I think it qualifies to be shared here in this re-thread...Right?
It was an awesome family car back in its day. It once ran 108 MPH in the 1/4. But the quickest ET I could ever manage was 13.2x. This would've been a legit 12 second car on drag radials!
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/T-Sherer2004GT.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/d5da28d6-3c84-4749-b496-e158eeacba0c)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/100_1546.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/d57e16aa-8f7c-44e1-a620-513186a974a8)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k307/taturbo/.highres/100_1541.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/taturbo/p/675ec8f7-325a-4276-a981-09808132d4f8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50954943692_7ca0b35470_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kCHpvW)100_1832 (https://flic.kr/p/2kCHpvW) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I miss the sound of the Turbo too.
SWOOOSSSHH!!!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50954945202_7cd9c37aef_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kCHpXY)100_2716 (https://flic.kr/p/2kCHpXY) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Is there anyone here who doesn't like Turbo noises like these?
https://youtu.be/jqQXKKPS4yw
https://youtu.be/eKrelRwPTgA
I really hope I get to complete phase 2 of my build, and get a Turbo installed on the TA.
Sorry, this is getting long. But, I did promise a couple recent pics and I wouldn't want to disappoint ;-)
This is from a '1st Annual Team Jennifer Cahill' Charity 'Ride & Show' in Reinholds PA 5/15/21:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51222678185_3d3a88bd26_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m3nBDT)IMG_6065 (https://flic.kr/p/2m3nBDT) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I hope this show grows. It was at a nice location and for a good cause. A little more practice organizing things and it'll be a nice low-key early season show.
This one below is from somewhere in the Jersey Pine Barrens. Apparently a little too close to Joint Base McGuire-Dix:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51221815608_a9357028f8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m3iceS)IMG_6174 (https://flic.kr/p/2m3iceS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Between just us here...on the internet...We kept on that road a little further until it turned to gravel. Shhh.
That's it I guess. Oh...
I'll have to remember to post up when I hear back from Pheonix Graphics. If the hood bird starts pulling up like those fender decals that'll suck. I hope Pheonix makes good on things and stands by their product going forward.
Thanks for checking in. Hope everyone enjoys the nice weather this weekend.
-Tom
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Hey TAC..Long time no see. It's been a busy summer. And there hasn't been too much going on project-wise. But, I have been having some trouble the last couple of weeks that I'm trying to figure out. First...the good news!
While this season hasn't been hassle free, we did get to a few shows. The show at Pennhurst Asylum I mentioned earlier ended up being an interesting one. It was hot as hell, but we ended up with a spot in the shade, the venue was quite interesting...and there were lots of interesting cars.
Here's a couple pics from the Pennhurst Asylum Fuel and Fire show.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51380219207_85a71898e8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhi47p)IMG_6274 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhi47p) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51380219232_dc9f9326f5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhi47Q)IMG_6273 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhi47Q) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51381722224_9d60d8792c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhqKUu)IMG_6331 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhqKUu) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr q
We got several drives in too...Here's a couple of pics from Valley Forge Park, Penn's landing, and some cemetery somewhere...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51382018970_ef643305e1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhsh7N)IMG_6495 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhsh7N) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51381722274_c94356dc21_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhqKVm)IMG_6502 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhqKVm) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51381992720_4123a64ce4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhs9jd)IMG_6377 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhs9jd) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51381011456_d140ee4a14_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhn7BS)IMG_6477 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhn7BS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Speaking of Drives...Julie and I finished a truly epic and amazing road trip from Atlantic City NJ, to Ventura Beach CA via Rt. 66 and Las Vegas. For that road trip we took the Challenger, which I think was the right tool for the job. Here's a pic from the morning we left AC.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51380219247_064b15b665_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mhi486)IMG_6530 (https://flic.kr/p/2mhi486) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
If you've haven't driven across this country yet, you should. It was sooo cool. Best vacation of all my years. I'm going to post some pics of that trip maybe in the Lobby. As a PSA.
Anyway...back to my 'project' thread...
While the car's been 'OK', it's not running great right now. The past couple of weeks it's been intermittently having trouble holding an Idle...Hot or cold...And it 'surges' once in a while. Again, very intermittently. No codes. But the behavior made me recall the cheap MAF I had installed early on in the engine install. Unplugging the MAF as a test showed that the car ran better with No MAF. I replaced the cheap sensor with a Delphi MAF. It's still screwing up .
I Checked voltage at the MAF. It's about 1v less than whatever's at the battery.
Watching the voltage really closely I noticed my voltage gauge acting unusual intermittently too...
In one instance, I turned on the key, pausing a second to listen to the fuel pump(FP) before cranking. I noticed after the FP finished priming, the voltage gauge showed lower than usual...Just under 11v. Car wouldn't crank...Just click, click, click. Turned the key off, then immediately back on, and the voltage looked back to normal 12v, and the car fired right up.
Later, I let the car idle in the driveway a little...The Idle problem was already occurring while sitting there. It was idling very low and almost stalling after throttle blips or even just coming down to idle from 1500-2000 RPM. Volt gauge appeared normal around 14v. But, then started reading lower, closer to 13 and the needle was moving erratically...not in large swings...Just twitchy, when the needle is normally very stable.
Keep in mind, this occurs intermittently. I could turn the car off, and back on and everything goes back to normal.
I chased the main power wires under the hood today. I found some corrosion at the main power junction block. Cleaned it up but it didn't help.
I figure next I'll have a close look at the main batt cables...Check for resistance, voltage drop any unusual abrasions.
That's it for now. Thanks for checking in! Keep an eye on the lobby for my Rt. 66 Road trip pics!
Take care guys!
-Tom
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Sorry to hear of the troubles. I look forward to talking to you about your road trip. That is something I have wanted to do for a couple of years now.
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No problem Roadking...I'm happy to talk about it with anyone who'll listen. I'll definitely write something up in the lobby about our Rt. 66 trip. I'd like to encourage people to make the drive. Aside from it being amazingly beautiful, interesting, and fun, it was sort of sad to see some of the towns along the way that have withered because of the interstate. The places that are being preserved should be supported.
Back to my 'Project'...
I'm sort of at a loss as to why it's behaving the way I described earlier. But my current theory is some sort of electrical issue. I cleaned up this mess in the main junction block where the + Batt cable terminates and splits to the starter and PCM and where the charge wire from the Alt connects....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51388531260_f678c8abc0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mi2DZE)IMG_7626 (https://flic.kr/p/2mi2DZE) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Since then it's a little better. It idled low when I first fired it back up, but has been better since. However, I still see the voltage dropping once in a while. Normally the stock volt gauge shows 14v when the car's running. Occassionally, it drops to 13 and the needle gets unstable. I also have the occasional situation where the starter wont crank. I think I've noticed that the gauge shows 11V when that occurs. Turn it off and back on and it shows 12v and cranks fine.
I unplugged the Alternator as a test..when it's not charging and the car's running the gauge shows 12v. So,the 13v reading doesn't appear to be an indication that the alternator is cutting out.
I inspected both batt cables front to back, and checked for resistance over the full length. They both checked out fine with 0 ohms resistance and no evidence of chafing or anything. And the neg connection at the Engine Block is good.
I checked all the ground straps...Engine to Firewall, Engine to front sub-frame, sub-frame to body, Rad support to sub-frame. They all check out OK.
I think I'm going to install a better quality battery to see if that has any effect on things.
Oh...One other update...
I'm running 275-50 r17 tires on the back of this thing. I'm happy with the look, but they would rub once in a while on significant dips in the road. Especially if I have stuff in the trunk.
Anyway, I decided to install a set of these in an effort to fix that...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51388259389_e32a0fa98a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mi1gbe)IMG_7635 (https://flic.kr/p/2mi1gbe) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The intent was to bump up the ride height a bit to prevent the rubbing. What I found was that, even with the ride hight essentially exactly the same as it was before, there's no more rubbing. I guess the air shocks don't allow it to drop as much when we hit a dip in the road. As a bonus, I like the feel of the air shocks better than the stock AC/Delco replacement shocks that I had been running.
I'll let you know how I make out with the idle issue.
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Glad you are getting in there to investigate. Sounds like those battery cables are good, but I would think about something different for that junction box. I'm not a big fan of those screw type boxes. From my experience then tend to corrode fairly easy and can cause many issues. I'd suggest removing that junction box and get a set of quality terminals and a crimper to get a solid connection. Bussmann makes some junctions with MegaFuse's that do a really nice job. I have one on my car, that I take directly from the battery and most of my accessories are fed off of that.
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Been waiting for a TATurbo update! I am running something similar where the junction box is essentially unprotected / unsealed. While I dont have any voltage issues yet, I may update to a better solution if you find it.
Car looks great in PA summer.
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Hey Guys,
Hope everyone's doing well. I had been waiting to post until I had something interesting to report on my 'Project'. But honestly, it's been an uninteresting project-wise. I was wanting to post pics of the current stance with the new air shocks. But I didn't have any good dead side pics to share. I'll post up some info on suspension tweaks when I get some good side shots. I CAN however provide an update regarding the solution to my intermittent low idle and surging problem.
But first...While I have your attention...
You have to sit through my slide show. I think I can justify these in my 'Project' thread 'cause technically all of these were taken while A) Testing my new air shocks and B) testing solutions to my low idle & surging problems.
(I wont be offended if you scroll down directly to the low idle/surging solution section. It's riveting!)
We've put a bunch of miles on the car over the past few weeks.
From upper Bucks County PA: PA 32 and Rt. 611 from lower Bucks County up to the Delaware Water Gap is a nice drive if you're in the area immediately North of Philly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435292848_9a5b25392e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnajzW)IMG_1915 (https://flic.kr/p/2mnajzW) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Then...right on the other side of the river is Rt. 29 in NJ with similar views of the Delaware River.
But the most interesting drives we've found were the county roads in central S. Jersey. So, like South of Trenton NJ, and halfway between the Delaware River and the shore. There are all sorts of old farms and forests to explore in that part of the state. Rt. 541 runs through a bunch of old small towns headed S. from Burlington...It's a really nice drive. I've lived in this part of th world all my life, I had no idea NJ was so cute in the middle...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51436024950_a75e41da66_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mne5do)IMG_7609 (https://flic.kr/p/2mne5do) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435797759_6d012f8f26_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mncUFi)IMG_7610 (https://flic.kr/p/2mncUFi) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Speaking of small towns, I've decided my favorite Car show venues are the ones held on 'Main St.'.
For example...Ambler PA has an annual Car show on its main drag, Butler Ave.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435054276_b72c205795_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mn96EC)IMG_7677 (https://flic.kr/p/2mn96EC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435292348_c842426304_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnajrj)IMG_7694 (https://flic.kr/p/2mnajrj) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And the two Pottstown 'cruise night' events I've attended this summer had some very high quality cars
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51436025010_a2bb5447ee_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mne5eq)IMG_7604 (https://flic.kr/p/2mne5eq) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435053896_c13669dc2d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mn96y5)IMG_7735 (https://flic.kr/p/2mn96y5) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51434296527_2d4751d185_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mn5dpZ)IMG_7704 (https://flic.kr/p/2mn5dpZ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435797399_81d4288a8d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mncUz6)IMG_7707 (https://flic.kr/p/2mncUz6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I really like the atmosphere and being able to explore the businesses while checking out the cars.
Anyway...On to some more appropriate 'Project Thread' subject matter...
All those trips and shows were necessary for us to test the fix for the low idle and surging issue mentioned in my prior post...
A swap of MAF's didn't help the condition. Close observation suggested there might be something funky going on electrically...I was seeing voltage readings that were different (a little low) when the problem occurred compared to when the car was running OK. All the main and charge related wiring checked out OK. Cleaning some unusual corrosion on the main power junction block helped a little. But the problem persisted.
So...What was the ultimate solution???
BAM!!!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51435292888_937685dcff_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnajAC)IMG_7751[1] (https://flic.kr/p/2mnajAC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
That's right! A new battery seems to have corrected the problem. It appears as though the battery was maybe causing a voltage consistency problem? I guess?
I had been running a Champion AGM battery. I purchased that brand because it was the only AGM battery with the right dimensions to fit where I needed it back when we first got the LS1 installed. Given that I had to replace the Champion battery once before, and that it appears to be the cause of my recent driveability problem, I give Champion batteries 1 Star. Spend the money for an Optima or similar quality battery from a company that is known for making batteries. I suppose that's the lesson.
Not a very exciting ending. But it's what I got...Thanks for checking in!
Take care everyone!
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Looks like some fun cruising Tom. We need to set up a time and do Lancaster Co.
Glad you got your problem fixed with the battery. A few years ago I started having electrical problems with my pickup. Just small oddball stuff all electric related, but the truck always started fine. Then one day the battery was dead. Replaced it with new and all of the gremlins were gone!
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Hello again TAC. It's been a little while, but I guess that's good...Since installing the Optima battery the car's been running really good. So, although we put a -lot- of miles on the TA this summer, there's been nothing much to talk about.
I did have one issue come up...
While out on a sunset cruise one evening we started hearing a clunking noise from the rear of the car. Having learned a lesson during the off-season (when something goes wrong, it's probably related to the last thing I messed with) I immediately checked my new Hi-Jacker shocks. What I found was this...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624661449_cdf2fd2763_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDTTgP)IMG_8185 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDTTgP) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
One of the shock bolts had backed out about halfway (I took this pic after removing it). I guess that put a weird load on the other bolt, which snapped. Although I couldn't get a grip on the remaining piece to back it out, I had seen a trick where people welded a nut onto the broken bolt. Then, just put a wrench on the nut to back out the broken bolt. Except...I don't have a welder (nor any welding skills). The closest I could come up with was...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51623180507_fae63e4e29_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDLi3k)IMG_8183 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDLi3k) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Good 'ol JB Weld. In the pic above you can see how I filled up the middle of the nut with JB Weld. I then taped it up over the broken bolt...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624869120_70467f5a63_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUX1m)IMG_8187 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUX1m) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And let it set up overnight. That worked! The next day I was able to put a wrench on the nut and the broken bolt backed out easily. Phew!
Speaking of those Hi-Jackers...
I mentioned earlier I'd share pics of the current stance with the Hi-Jackers installed. So, here you go:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624869075_8e2df863db_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUWZz)IMG_7840 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUWZz) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624869065_cc9475e193_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUWZp)IMG_7842 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUWZp) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The rear isn't up much higher than it was originally, but the Hi-Jackers solved the rear tire rub. They seem control the body motion better then the ACDelco 'stock' replacements I had on there before. Additionally, I like the feel of these better than either the Doeschtech or ACDelco's. So, these were a win/win.
That said, the whole ride height is taller than I'd like. This winter I hope to get a set of coil-overs for the front. That should let me bring the whole thing down a tad while retaining the slight rake I prefer.
I mentioned we put a lot of miles on it this season...Well, earlier today we turned over 200,000 miles on the Odometer!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51690501685_124dd32d67_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKHkhi)IMG_3553 (https://flic.kr/p/2mKHkhi) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I still remember when I turned over 100K on this car. I was driving on Rt. 130 in South Jersey headed back to King of Prussia from my girlfriend's (now wife's) house in Willingboro. That was probably around 1992.
In celebration of the 200K milestone here are a few more pics from road-trips this season...
Cruisin' Pottstown PA...I love seeing it draw a crowd...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624236123_a3d0504e4b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDRGQB)IMG_E8059 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDRGQB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Valley Forge National Park...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624010621_c75b9eb910_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDQxND)IMG_8081 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDQxND) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And South Street in Philadelphia...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51690289124_9889a6b425_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKGf6s)IMG_8409 (https://flic.kr/p/2mKGf6s) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Those spots are all our usual haunts. But, we ventured further out this season...
Ventnor NJ:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51688697785_41458586ce_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKy63z)IMG_7455 (https://flic.kr/p/2mKy63z) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Kistler Ledge, Mt. Pocono...The highest point in PA's Pocono Mountains...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624869025_938503d333_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUWYH)IMG_8140 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDUWYH) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
NY 97 near Port Jervis (Upper Delaware River Scenic by-way)...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624236153_f547664371_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDRGR8)IMG_8173 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDRGR8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624661359_8bb9c84f89_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDTTfg)IMG_8179 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDTTfg) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Finally, our longest trip this season was a weekend in Salem MA! That trip included a drive up towards White Mountain in New Hampshire, where this pic was taken...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624010606_451d77dbb9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDQxNo)IMG_E8016 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDQxNo) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And a dinner in Boston...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51624236093_71818d4e49_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mDRGQ6)IMG_8029 (https://flic.kr/p/2mDRGQ6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Winter is almost here now. In addition to the plans to install coil-overs up front, I have a relatively long list of little things that need to be cleaned up or touched up this off-season. I'm still working on that list. I guess my next post will be to document that stuff and to share anything I learn in that process.
Thanks for checking in guys!
Take care.
-Tom
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Nice trick with the JB weld Tom!!
Wished we could have made that cruise happen... Next year we will plan something for sure. Maybe cruise to Carlisle for one of the shows?
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Very nice Tom, thats a long trip but a fun one. I like the pics with the backgrounds, thanks for posting.
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Great pics, and sure looks like you had a lot of fun with that car.
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Tom,
Fantastic photos, I would print and frame several of them or submit for a Muscle car calendar. Unbelievable 200,000 miles, obviously you really enjoy driving it. Car looks brand new and certainly didn’t look this good when it rolled of the assembly line.
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For those out of the area I will attest to Toms fortitude. I live pretty close to him and these 'little' trips he is talking about are no jaunts across town to the coffee shop! He puts quite a bit of distant into them!! I have to say I am quite envious.
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Some great photos Tom. Catching up with your thread gives me some incentive to dig back into my swap, maybe even restart my thread. My build is now 3 years deep. This past year has been kind of non-existant.
Some of those photos are definitely worthy of placing in frames.
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Tom, advance apologies for the hijack,
Kevin, good to hear from you. I have been wondering how you have been doing. Please repost your project we are all still interested.
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Hey Tom! I just received my HI-Jacker shocks. I am trying to control the jounce over bumps in the rear of my car and I was thinking about trying these and then saw you are now using them. I had KYB shocks and then some stock replacement and now these. Just curious as I know cars and suspensions are different but what PSI do seem to like?
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Hey FormTA,
I think you'll like the Hi-Jackers, but I'm really curious to hear what you think. It sounds like you are on a similar path I've been on trying to get the ride dialed in...Good luck.
If I remember correctly, I'm running like 27#'s of pressure in mine. The more pressure you put in, the higher it'll ride. So ride height is the main determining factor of the pressure you'll run. After installing mine I pumped them up a little too high, then let some air out until it got to the height I thought looked good. Then, I checked the pressure to make sure it was within the required range. I think the instructions said 25#'s minimum.
Please let us know how they work out for you.
Oh..one other thing...
I have a set of Doetsch Tech 3-way adjustable shocks off the rear of my car just sitting on a shelf. If you don't like the High-Jackers, maybe you can try these Doetsch Tech's on? They are supposed to be good. I didn't like them, but I'm 100% certain I did not have them set appropriately. After I pulled them out I found the instructions on how to properly select the desired ride setting. So, if you take them, you'll be able to properly set them up...They probably work better that way. I'm not looking to make any money on them, so the Doetsch Tech's could be a cheap 'next try' if the High-Jackers don't work out. You can have 'em for a 'late Sunday..."I don't want to pack them back up to take home"' swap meet type price.
Good luck!
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Hey everyone,
Winter's just about over...Thank goodness! We had one 70 Deg. day here in Philly last week that allowed us to get the TA out to stretch its legs for a couple hours. With Spring coming next week I guess it's time for an update on the winter punch list I put together way back at the end of November.
Let's start with a couple before and after pics that will set the general feel for how the winter went...
Before:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51936996446_a8d28474ca_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8uFzY)IMG_8555 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8uFzY) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And After:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51937610215_f6d74a358b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ3c)IMG_8558 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ3c) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
BAM! That, my friends, is a BILLET Aluminum tilt wheel lever. Sweet right? <End Sarcasm>
I have the matching turn signal switch but haven't installed it yet 'cause I'm still waiting for the new steering wheel I ordered in July 2021. I don't want to have to pull the wheel off twice.
That's about how my winter's gone with regards to improvements and fixes to the TA....Nothing interesting.
One of the things I actually -needed- to do was to correct this condition on the driver-side tie-rod end...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51937610145_ca2421d034_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ1Z)IMG_8610 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ1Z) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
When I got the alignment done way back when I first started driving the car the guy told me he couldn't get the alignment 'right' because the outer tie rod was too long. It ran out of adjustment. This winter I bought a set of quality Moog tie rod ends to replace those sort of cheap ones that came with the PST 'Front-End Kit' circa 2017. The Moog part is the same exact size...still would've bottomed out. Ultimately, I ended up cutting a 1/2" off the original PST tie rod end and re-installing it. Now there is room for some additional adjustment:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51936012932_9a050f125d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8pDdQ)IMG_8622 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8pDdQ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Now of course, I need to take it to an alignment shop to get it reset.
I also fixed the tach in the hood cluster. The bar at the top of the 10's digit on the tach had stopped working leaving that position reading a 'U' instaed of '0'.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51220891507_b7e9ed3c22_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m3dsx6)IMG_6057 (https://flic.kr/p/2m3dsx6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Not a big deal, but it got annoying enough that I finally gave in to disassemble the cluster...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51936013032_0268b256fc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8pDfy)IMG_8571 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8pDfy) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And installed a new Intellitronix 2 1/8" LED Tach:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50284714802_3090524ce4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBuiPq)1-IMG_3848 (https://flic.kr/p/2jBuiPq) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Let's see...Oh...I also installed this sweet new Hazard switch
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51936013017_c684eb9152_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8pDfi)IMG_8591 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8pDfi) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Umm...And, I cleaned the air filter:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51937610190_5e458896d9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ2L)IMG_8577 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ2L) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And removed the TA fender decals and sent 'em back to Pheonix Graphics. They were showing some funky discoloration or something...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51937610160_ff5c86671e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ2f)IMG_8599 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8xQ2f) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Pheonix is sending replacements...Waiting on those too.
The one big thing I had planned for this winter was installing coil over's on the front end. That hasn't happened. Budgetary constraints.
So, you can see why I haven't updated my project thread at all this winter. I haven't done anything interesting.
The good news is that with me touching less stuff this winter I haven't run into the problem where everything I try to fix introduces another worse problem...Like last winter. I guess that's a win!
Lokar/Lecarra says my new steering wheel will be here this week. I'll let you know how that looks and feels if it shows up.
Thanks for checking in guys. Take care. .
-Tom
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Looks like just enough work to make some improvements and not too much to be overwhelming.
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That is a much better way of thinking about it. Thanks RoadKing!
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My new steering wheel finally arrived! Only took 8 months.
This "Lecarra Trans Am Steering Wheel 14" Diameter" in burgandy leather was a birthday gift from Julie. (Thanks Babe!)
I was concerned about the color matching the darker 'red' used on the dash and console on these cars. But the color couldn't be any closer to the original:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51958477567_d6410fc6b4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2naoMb8)IMG_8691 (https://flic.kr/p/2naoMb8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I was also a little concerned that the grip might be significantly thicker than the stock wheel. For some reason I've always liked the feel of the stock wheel. The Lecarra wheel thickness is very close to the original rubberized foam (or whatever the 'formula' steering wheels were made of!). The leather wheel feels much nicer to the touch.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51959765904_f7d0491d2c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2navo9Q)IMG_8691 (https://flic.kr/p/2navo9Q) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Here it is installed:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51960049140_1b384f6d4e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nawQmd)IMG_8693 (https://flic.kr/p/2nawQmd) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I obviously can't speak to how well it will hold up, but as it stands right now....For around $200.00 the Lecarra wheel appears to be a nice upgrade to the stock formula style steering wheels.
Looking forward to putting some miles on my new wheel!
Thanks for checking in guys!
-Tom
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Nice upgrade Tom! Looks like a much higher quality version of the original.
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That wheel looks great! I am with you on the grip. I have been looking forward to seeing how this one turned out. The price is great also. I would think that would have been at least twice that amount. 8 months during the winter isnt too bad, waiting through the summer would have been a killer. I am now at 8 months on my dash bezel!
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That came out great... Although I agree nothing should take that long.
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Yeah..way too long of a wait.
I had wanted a leather wheel since the beginning of the project. Last summer I got to see and feel a Lecarra replacement wheel my brother had in his '81 'Vette. I put it on my holiday wish list immediately. Once I knew it was on its way I couldn't help noticing the wear on the original wheel. And, consequently feeling as though the old wheel was really taking something away from the look and feel of the interior restoration.
Sorry to hear you're having a similar wait for your dash bezel Roadking. If you are not already doing so, keep checking on it. I remember an extended wait for one of my digital gauges a while back. The online retailer just kept saying it was on backorder and giving me what felt like a made up date. After a couple of similar updates, I decided to call the manufacturer(mfr). In that instance, the mfr said that they didn't have a record of the order. In this case, I called Lecarra after the first date estimate passed. They where able to give me much more detailed status updates. In December they told me the delay was because of an equipment problem. Their 'foam machine' was busted. When I checked in 60 days later they were able to tell me my wheel was out at the ''stitchers''. Apparently the wheels are built there, then sent out in batches to the place that wraps and stitches the leather.
Whoa...Sorry 'bout that...That little expression of empathy got away from me there and turned into a whole paragraph! I should have just said ''Hope your bezel comes soon, Roadking.'' But, no. Instead, I ended up rambling on about how a gauge order got messed up 2 years ago, and how Lecarra makes their steering wheels. Advice aimed at someone like Roadking. Who probably has more experience with ordering car parts than I do. I remember one time...Crap! there I go again! ;-p
Anyway,
I did have a problem/question about the steering column and wheel/turn signal canceling cam alignment. So, if you're familiar with that stuff, please check back soon. I'm doing some research and getting some pics to share for advice on how that works.
Thanks for checking in, guys.
Take care.
-Tom
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Hello TAC,
I suppose it was inevitable that I'd fall off page one...I haven't done much project-wise this Summer. I have been spending a lot of time just driving and enjoying the car. I did have one little project related update I thought I'd share.
I see that I left off asking about the turn signal switch, so I suppose I should begin there...
Since I started driving the car the turn signal cancel has been 'off'...It worked but canceled too early on one side and too late on the other. Plus the switch itself was hard to engage. I'd really have to force it to catch. I replaced the switch with a new one, then while installing the new steering wheel, I noticed I hadn't aligned the notch on the wheel and hub back in the day. When we assembled the column way back early in the project, the car was a long way from being driven, and had none of the steering linkage etc. I guess I just put the wheel on so it looked straight back then.
Lesson: The turn signal switch, cancel cam, wheel lock, and wheel hub only fit together one way. The wheel and hub can be clocked out of whack. There is a notch on the wheel that needs to align with a notch in the collar. Pretty obvious if you are paying attention...I was not.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52268620504_93c7c08400_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nCNkS9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nCNkS9) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
You can see the notch in the wheel in this pic...Look through the hole in the top wheel's 9 O'clock spoke.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51958477567_d6410fc6b4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2naoMb8)IMG_8691 (https://flic.kr/p/2naoMb8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
There's a same shape notch in the collar.
Ok, that's sort of boring. I did have one little project I was very proud of...It was a requirement I had set for participating in this event...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52225957583_2a0c4c06d5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nz2FEx)HRPT Nashville (https://flic.kr/p/2nz2FEx) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The Hot Rod Power Tour (HRPT) is something I've wanted to do since its inception. For 2022 the HRPT was started in Memphis TN, with a stop in Nashville, TN before continuing on to Florida and Georgia. My brother's shop (Classic Auto Painting, Mt. Juliet, TN) is right outside Nashville. He hadn't seen the car put back together yet, and I had some extra time off work to use this year. So, this was the year to finally run the HRPT! I wanted to be perfectly comfortable sitting in traffic in Florida or "Hotlanta's" Mid-June sunshine. I needed a set of T-top shades. And, I wanted them to look good installed in the car. Here's what I came up with...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52226233399_df676c4e55_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nz46DZ)TA T-Top covers (https://flic.kr/p/2nz46DZ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52324713347_cf80e68d80_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nHKQj8)TA T-Top covers (https://flic.kr/p/2nHKQj8) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52225973463_a570c6d8ab_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nz2Lok)TA T-Top covers (https://flic.kr/p/2nz2Lok) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I made these shades using 'Plastic cardboard' (Curragated plastic) board as the base, leftover headliner material, Red interior 'Windlace' (Classic Industries PN: T5DKRED), some black adhesive-backed vinyl, and a couple of pieces of heavy-duty adheasive-backed velcro.
Here's the basic setup:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52233972737_87dc34d64c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nzJLhR)T-top shade mock up (https://flic.kr/p/2nzJLhR) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
We covered the side facing up with the black vinyl. Then, we used headliner adhesive to cover the inside with the leftover headliner material. The windlace was then wrapped around 3 sides to make finished edge covering where the headliner material wraps around.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52226233369_00cf5f9d9d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nz46Dt)TA T-Top covers (https://flic.kr/p/2nz46Dt) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
When installed, the 4th side (with no windlace) slides in between the interior garnish molding and the glass. The other three sides rest upon the interior T-Top trim pieces. There's enough space, and enough of a lip between the glass and the top of the interior trim to hold the shade up. And, the snug fit between garnish molding and glass holds it tightly. The only problem with this set up was that it was a little awkard putting the tops on and off and sliding them into the storage bags with the shades installed. I put a couple pieces of heavy duty velcro on the shade's top side and T-Top glass to hold the shade so that I can easily install, remove, and store the tops with the shades installed
The interior temps remained consistently cool (head to toe) and comfortable in Mid-day, Mid-June, 95+ degree days on the tour. And the TA made it all the way to FLA and back, no problem...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52226222079_ce993c1271_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nz43hP)HRPT FLa (https://flic.kr/p/2nz43hP) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Well...Pretty much no problem. I was gonna share my HRPT experience and some pics in the 'Lobby'. Keep an eye out there if you're interested.
Thanks for checking in guys!
Take care.
-Tom
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Awesome update! Heading to the lobby to check the pictures of the power tour.
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Looks good Tom, you and I talked at the show in Lancaster, you said you were not completely happy with the sub frame connectors. I was reading an article and it hit me, you should check out the VSE Herb Adams (I think thats what they are?) front end bracing that goes to the firewall and back to the front of the sub frame in the engine compartment. IF they fit with your transplant?
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I'm interested in your thoughts on this. I feel my car is stiffer with the connectors buy I still have rattling and in my roof area. I too thought about the front braces. I also want to take my headline out again and double check the roof panel to see if I missed something like panel separation or something. The car also feels like it needs to be stiffer overall.
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Hey guys,
I haven't had any significant 'project' related stuff going on. So, I haven't been on here in a while...The stiffness/twisting question is one I've been thinking of a lot this Summer. Don't tell DMV, but I put almost 9000 Miles on the TA this summer and rigidity continues to be an issue...
My problem shows up in the doors/rocker area Although the car is relatively solid, heavy bumps make the doors 'bang'. The doors have 0 play in any direction, but certain hard hits cause enough movement to cause the top rear edge to whack up into the jam. As evidence by chipped paint in that position on both sides of the care. AND...Although I can't be 100% certain, I think I see a wobble in the driver side rocker sheet metal that wasn't there when the paint and body were done.
I have bolt in sub-frame connectors installed on this car. They definitely helped. But I'm convinced they need to be welded in. I was going to weld them in during my trip to Nashville for the HRPT. But we never got around to it. Welding them in is a priority 'cause my car is still so floppy. I bought a set of PTFB G-Braces, but they do not fit around the current LS1/Vintage Air AC setup. So, I returned them.
One thing I should mention is that my car is approaching 1/4 of a million miles. The odometer turned over 200K last fall, and it showed 7K when it...Ummm..."stopped working" around mid-summer this year. Next season I'm sure to hit 225,000 unofficial miles. Until I do something drastic, I don't think the floppy-ness will go away.
I plan on starting to buy Turbo parts next season, and install them the season after that. As part of that project I expect to break the car down a bit to freshen up the paint and engine. I'm going to look into some sort of body/frame mods to quell the twisting then. We'll see I guess.
In the mean time I'm just gonna keep driving it! We've been loving it!
Below are some pics from our travels this fall. But first, since this is a project thread...We did have a couple small projects come up...
First, I had to replace the GPS speedo in the hoodscoop. I broke it by running 12v up one of the wires intended for the GPS antenna signal. (I have a terminal that I can plug in to supply power to the gauges when the cars off...For shows. I plugged it in wrong at a show and fried the Speedo).
So, I pulled it out...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493162817_9d7185b55d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYDbtk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYDbtk) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And had Julie wire the new one in...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493646541_5be6b89200_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYFEgp)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYFEgp) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Oh...And I have a new shop cat Elwood 'Woody' Blues. You can see him under the bench above.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52494201383_2728dffbdb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJvcD)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJvcD) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Elwood would wonder through my yard from time to time over the past couple years. So we were familiar. A guy around the block passed away, then the house burnt down. After which Woody started coming by every day. I put 2 and 2 together and confirmed with the deceased home owner's brother that this was, in fact his dead brother's cat. He didn't like his brother, and said I could have the cat (Thanks.) I though the looked like a Jake, but My brother's have had a couple of dogs named Jake, so we call him Elwood. He's a decent shop cat, he knows the sound of both my Challenger and Trans-Am and frequently greets me at the garage when I get home.
Anyway...The other 'project' was a replacement windshield...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493226337_68b48cdb7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYDvmv)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYDvmv) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
A piece of fruit fell out of a tree and whacked the windshield hard. I was actually glad it hit the window and not the sheetmetal (or my wife, I guess). It would've left a nasty dent in either of 'em.
Now for some gratuitous TA pics from this fall...
From Valley Forge National Park:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493943719_c1ec5cae70_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYHbBa)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYHbBa) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52494213448_c347ed6ee4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJyME)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJyME) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52494119975_693de32d78_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ614)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ614) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52494120390_b76dc6cb61_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ68d)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ68d) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And Quakertown PA:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52494106530_3767e7fffd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ21f)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ21f) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Valley Forge and Quakertown are close to home. But, we also went to our first car show at the Jersey shore in September...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493588171_e05159a030_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYFmV2)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYFmV2) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Long Beach Island NJ to be exact.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493871594_7958e72df8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYGPaC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYGPaC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
That tall thing back there is Barnegat Light at the northern tip of LBI.
The best fall trip was to the Catskills in New York in mid October...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52494133140_9b9e385e6d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ9V3)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYJ9V3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493178972_9989a178d7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYDggS)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYDggS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493664701_9d6a9d0620_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYFKEv)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nYFKEv) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I have a decent list of stuff to I want to get done on the car this Winter. Mostly small stuff, except for installing Coil-overs in front. Coil-over's were on my list last winter too...So, we'll see if I can get that done this year.
Thanks for checking in guys!
Take care.
-Tom
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Like always, car looks great Tom!
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Tom, it’s great to see more postings from you.
A couple observations;
Your photographic presentation is beautiful, like something you would see in a high line magazine.
I am one who likes a stock looking car; I feel it’s hard to improve upon what GM originally designed. Having said that I really like the subtle changes you have made. They look like a natural migration of what GM would have done had they continued to build second generation Firebirds.
Nine thousand miles in a single year is great. In 2 ½ years I put only 3K on my car.
Having your wife willing and able to help you on your car is priceless!
When these cars were designed the engineers never conceived modern day tires, brakes, chassis loads and horsepower. Let alone putting 200K miles on the chassis. Add to that the inherit weakness of a half Unibody / front sub-frame chassis with the roof cut out for T-tops. If you really want to tighten things up this is a very expensive and labor-intensive solution.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493969002_4b01bc4164_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYHj85)IMG_3480 (https://flic.kr/p/2nYHj85) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52495008228_6866759390_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYND3L)IMG_3482 (https://flic.kr/p/2nYND3L) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52493972997_c624d4ec42_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nYHkiX)IMG_3483 (https://flic.kr/p/2nYHkiX) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Holy moly!. Add a 12 pt roll cage, and be super gas certified. :grin: Didn't know there were full framed F-body kits out there.
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Beautiful pictures and car.
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TTA,
I ended up making my own stiffeners for the front of my TA
I’ll dig up some pictures or take a couple later and post them
Great pictures and stories behind the result of such a beautiful ride
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Here are some pictures of the stiffener bars I made for the TA.
They stayed on the car unpainted for a while before I took them off to paint them
I drove the car around for the few days it took to get them back in-place and was stunned by how much of a difference they made.
These are made from the rear bars of a G-body roll bar kit and are 1-5/8" in diameter
You could probably get away with 1" and still have considerable results but will probably have to find someone to custom bend them for you.
(https://i.imgur.com/fB1RRDWl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JkXJKb2l.jpg)
This is how the front of the bar attaches.
It resembles the front down-tube on a car with a 10-point cage.
I drilled and tapped one of two plates, bolted them together and then tacked the bar to one with the holes, and tacked the tapped one to the frame while it was resting on the front of the subframe.
Then I unbolted it and finished welded everything up,
(https://i.imgur.com/cbGv0lNl.jpg)
Pardon the mess >>>> it is still filthy from all the bodywork and needs to be cleaned up and put back together.
(https://i.imgur.com/qNIeDncl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eNvWev3l.jpg)
The rear of the bar has a plate that mates with one behind the firewall.
S&W are right near you but to get them to make something custom might be a stretch.
I am not familiar with them, but a chassis shop called Precision Chassis in in Pottstown.
If interested I could see if I can reach out to some racers that might know about them or someone else nearby.
JT
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Wow…That roadster shop chassis is sweet!. I knew they existed but never bothered to look one up. That would be my dream solution. If I hit the lottery Roadster shop will be my second phone call. As it stands now, Ramblers solution is closer to what I had in my head.
Thanks for the shop suggestions. I will make a note of them and put them aside for later. I hope to do something like those braces as part of the Turbo project. I have a couple seasons before that happens though. Sticking with the plan to whittle away at it over the next couple years. Then when my kid is done school I will(hopefully) be able to pull the trigger on ‘phase two’ of the project.
I’m excited already though. A turbo will put this car over the top for me.
Thanks again for the input guys.
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I like RR's work. I think that would make a huge difference. Just an FYI, I have met up with Tom on many occasions, and I have to say his car looks better in person than in the pics. Plus I love the fact that he drives the &^&&%* out of it. We need to have an annual TAC Drivers award, I nominate Tom for the first one :grin:
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I like RR's work. I think that would make a huge difference. Just an FYI, I have met up with Tom on many occasions, and I have to say his car looks better in person than in the pics. Plus I love the fact that he drives the &^&&%* out of it. We need to have an annual TAC Drivers award, I nominate Tom for the first one :grin:
Supported!
Are we following Roberts Rules?
:-P
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Now we need a motion to accept...... and a role call, but we know how this may end
Quality of product and miles behind the tail...... TA Turbo FTW
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LOL. You’re too kind…I’m flattered just to be nominated. :-)
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Hello again TAC!
I just posted in the suspension section, questions I have about installing the parking brake lever onto the back of the rear calipers on a stock 4-Wheel-Disc setup.
A non-existent parking brake has prevented me from getting an actual PA safety inspection since the car's been 'done'.
If anyone has any experience putting this system together, please check out the post below and let me know if you have any input.
http://www.transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=84608.0
Thanks in advance guys!
Take Care
-Tom
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Hey TAC! Hope everyone's doing well. I've been lurking around this winter with nothing interesting to post.
The one significant thing I planned on doing this winter, coilovers on the front end...For a bunch of reasons, that hasn't happened. Yet.
My car did spend about 6 weeks ass up in the garage...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792185429_0643f79172_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2or4KtB)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2or4KtB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Messing with that stupid parking brake. Long story short...The LH Caliper is 'special'...Parts places will sell you a generic, unmarked 'LH' Caliper, that is not correct...and because that's the one I got, I can't make it work correctly. I did get it rigged good enough to maybe pass inspection.
Other than that project, I did fix one nuisance that has dogged us since we got the car back on the road. Floppy sunvisors. The passenger side was the worst...It would slowly droop down over time or big bumps. I cranked on that set screw pretty hard, and it still would come loose. At one point I installed shrink wrap on the Sunvisor retainer peg thingy...That held it for a while. Meanwhile, the driver's side got looser and looser in the forward and backward directions. It would move forward and hit the windshield on hard braking.
While researching new sunvisor brackets I found these chumpies:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792177524_b210b7a5e7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2or4H8j)Sunvisor inserts (https://flic.kr/p/2or4H8j) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Sunvisor inserts!?!? I've been around a bunch and messed with a bunch of TA's in my life. I never knew there were inserts inside of there! A set of those little plastic chumpies and a new set of these...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792389513_56669fde89_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2or5N9i)Sunvisor bracket (https://flic.kr/p/2or5N9i) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
...solved the long running sunvisor nuisance.
Covid going through the house and some other circumstances gave us time and a reason to go through some old pics. I found this pick of the TA circa 1997/1998. I'll need to get a proper scan of this...The skew picked up by a phone cam pic of a pic makes this look a little funky:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52792380810_8f0a1e4f08_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2or5Kyf)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2or5Kyf) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And... I found a couple of pics of my 1996 Formula WS6, and my brothers 4th Gen from around 2000:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52791387877_a30d038569_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oqZEoH)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oqZEoH) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52791387032_6e55080942_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oqZE99) (https://flic.kr/p/2oqZE99) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
OK, so what's next?
I finally got my Coilovers! I checked out a couple different brands (There aren't a whole bunch). Ultimately I decided to go with single adjustable, QA1's with a 400# spring. The 400# spring was recommended by QA1 considering ride comfort is the primary goal. I'm looking forward to being able to dial in the ride height this spring. I've been wanting to bring the front end down a little ever since the car rolled out of the paint booth. I'm hoping the QA1's allow me to get a comfortable ride, just a little lower than the current 'stock' ride height. Yet provide enough control to not induce front tire rubs on dips. The air shocks on the rear allowed me to keep the same 'stock' ride height, but (apparently) better control over the spring left me with no more tire rubbing hits at that height.
Speaking of those air shocks...I had put some pressure in to accommodate my adult kid riding in the back through a Christmas light show back in December. I realized after taking this pick that I hadn't let the rear back down yet...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52791390027_4edeac1ce1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oqZF2M)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oqZF2M) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Although it's not staying there... I like these cars jacked up a bit in the rear. Showing my age I suppose?
Anyway...Check back in for updates on the QA1Coilover project! I'm excited to get them installed!
Take care.
-Tom
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I am excited to see the coil overs! You setup is close to mine and I believe we have thw same goal as far as ride so I'm interested to see how this goes! I really need to get my spoilers on. Your car looks great!
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Great updates Tom! Looking forward to hearing your reviews of the coil overs.
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Hello again, TAC!
As noted in my last post...Going into season #4 with my 'finished' TTA I finally got coil-overs installed on the front end!
I'm going to try something new today. I'll get right to the main observations right up front. Only then will I ramble on about my mistakes, what I -really- think of this coil-over 'conversion kit', stuff I think might help someone else, and some useless details. Proceed at your own risk. :-)
Summary:
1) The installation of QA1's "Pro Coilover system" (Summit PN GS501-10400C) was not complex or difficult.
(But it did take me 2 tries and some customization/tweaking.)
2) I would recommend reading and following the instructions.
(I didn't follow them closely, which (in part) lead to an R&R session after the initial test drive.)
3) I didn't get the ride quality improvement I had hoped for.
(But ride comfort/quality is marginally improved. Maybe 20% 'better')
4) I did notice an improvement in feel/cornering/performance.
(But, that has had unintended consequences)
5) I did get the front-end ride height where I like it.
(But (at this stage) the car is more likely to rub a front tire on big dips then it was before.)
6) I may end up moving up to a 450lb spring.
(But, not this season)
7) I would recommend them to others
(But my very high expectations were not quite met.)
Before (top) and after(bottom): Both front and rear are 1/2" lower now than they were before...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52837873192_bd7b35eb16_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ov6URE)
Recently Updated (https://flic.kr/p/2ov6URE) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Still here? OK. Here's some additional details about the install...
The installation was pretty straightforward. Just 5 steps!
1) Remove the shocks
2) Disconnect the sway bar end links
3) Separate the lower control arm from the spindle
4) Remove the stock springs
5) Put the new coil-over where the old shock and spring were
Pro Tips: -Remove the sway bar entirely. This makes -more- work, but provides more room
to work -in-.
[Really the reason I removed the bar is that I sort of skimmed over the instructions this
first time through. So, maybe this first one isn't such a 'Pro' tip.
Know what? Leave the bar on the frame, or remove it. Dealers' choice.]
- Removing the little bump stop on the lower control arm provides more space to swing a
hammer at the ball joint area of the spindle.
- Estimate about 2 hours from start to finish for the first front corner.
[Add another 1 Hr. 45Min. to remove and reinstall both front coil-overs when you realize
That you did something wrong. (Practice makes perfect!)]
The bar at the bottom of the coilover rides on top of the lower control arm. The nuts that the stock shock bolts screw into from the bottom of the control arm will interfere. They need to be removed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52828715161_a57f2ce516_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouhYuz)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouhYuz) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
My very late 1981 Van Nuys car just J-Nuts (or whatever these are called) for the lower shock mounts. These pop right off:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52833925808_392030ed69_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouKFrj) Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouKFrj) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Apparently, some cars have nuts welded to the lower control arm for the lower shock mount. If your car has welded-on nuts there, they need to be ground/cut off
Here's how the lock nut and spring seat/adjuster nut install onto the coilover body:
[I really wasn't aware how exactly they piece together, exactly. Your knowledge may vary.]
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52828136757_a96f2a7f18_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouf1y6)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouf1y6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickrr
Run them all the way to the bottom and leave them there. (Just like the instructions say).
Then install the (optional) thrust bearing set sandwich on top of the spring seat adjuster nut thing.
Nut...Washer...Bearing...Washer like this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52829113685_8fbeca9f48_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouk1XF) Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouk1XF) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Finally, with the shaft fully extended, drop on the spring:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52828136747_1ce8f752d5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouf1xV)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouf1xV) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Oh...Here's something someone might actually find helpful...
I used a couple of large Phillips screwdrivers to orient the lower shock mount tabs on the coilover with the shock mount holes on the lower control arm. while jacking up the lower control arm.
Like this...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52828715076_67bcc3679c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouhYt7) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouhYt7) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52829156698_5342e743b1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oukeKh)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oukeKh) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I mentioned that by the 4th one I was under an hour to remove and reinstall one of these things. Each Front coil over was installed twice. r Here's the mistake to lead to all of that practice....
The initial test drive made it about 1.5Mi. before we had to stop driving. A constant squeak quickly developed from the front end. Not an occasional, light squeak. No...ANY movement of the lower control arm introduced a VERY loud, VERY high pitch squeaking sound. We stopped in a parking lot @ Valley Forge National Park where I found the noise was coming from the top shock mount area. It appeared as though the stock shaft was slanted inboard several degrees...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52828715041_b192959494_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouhYsv) Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouhYsv) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And..If you look closely at the pic above you can see a witness mark where the washer was rubbing against the shock mount.
So, I limped it home. Jacked it up...took the coilovers out, and reinstalled them. This time I carefully followed the directions. This process helped straighten the shaft and get the bushings seated better up top.
BUT...the top washer still looked like it would rub the frame. A comparison of the QA1 washers with the washers I had installed on the stock ACDelco shocks showed the QA1 washer was just a bit larger. Maybe 1/16 - 1/8 In. bigger diameter.
My Dremel solved that problem by trimming a bit off the washer...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52835930729_e34c609fbb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouVXqV)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ouVXqV) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(Note: The lighting in the pic above makes it look more like I took more off that washer than I actually did. I took off somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8th of an inch.)
I guess that was the only real problem we ran into:
Installer error combined with a clearance problem created a terrible squeak. The second installation, performed in accordance with the instruction document (pretty much) corrected the problem.
STILL HERE!? OK...Here are some more subjective impressions:
1) The adjustability is definitely noticeable. Per the instructions, I started on the softest setting. And...It was really soft.
2) I made probably 6-8 adjustments on the knob and spring before settling where it is now.
3) I am asking a LOT of these coil overs:
a.) I wanted the front end just a little lower than it was before.
-This was a win.
b.) I wanted a 'softer' ride. Less harsh impacts on pot-holes.
-This was a slight improvement
c.) I needed a+b with no rubbing on the 245R17 front tires.
-This is a draw. It will rub on severe dips at higher speeds.
d.) I expected a+b+c with improved cornering.
-This was a win. The turn-in and set is much quicker and tighter.
*BUT...Now the back end feels loose.
e.) I expected a+b+c+d with an improvment in road feel.
-This was a win.
4) I'm glad I got the single adjustable shocks. 300+ settings on the doubles would've driven me crazy.
AWESOME! You made it all the way to some Random details and Bonus 'After' pics:
How'd I pick a spring rate?
My '81 with a LS1/4L60E has 1950 lbs. on the front end. I contacted QA1 for spring rate recommendations. After explaining that improved ride comfort is high on the list of targets for this install, they recommended 400 lbs springs. QA1 Tech said that if I hadn't mentioned that softening hits on the front end and improving crushing comfort as key goals, they would've recommended 450lbs springs for an LS1 swapped 2nd Gen F-Body.
What's the coil-over 'conversion' cost?
I paid $660 something for QA1 Single adjustable shocks and springs. They are really nice parts. My only complaint is that they don't come with the spanner wrenches and thrust bearing set. They should at least throw in the spanner wrenches on your first set. Alas, they are not included, So...Add $60 for the bearing and spanner wrenches.
The shocks really do look and feel like good, quality stuff...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52829113775_d16fe1c16d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ouk1Ze)
BONUS After Pics:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52838649180_6ea493a415_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ovaTwL)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ovaTwL) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52847197064_411a2e2e45_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ovVGw5)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ovVGw5) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52847006626_b62293c18e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ovUHUE)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ovUHUE) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Was it worth it?
All in all, at this stage, I'm happy with the investment. We'll see how they hold up.
What's next?
Driving! In addition to dialing in the coil over install, over the past couple of weeks we've spent a lot of time just going over everything to get ready for the season. We had some stuff come loose, a couple of grounds that needed cleaning up, and windows and weather stripping that needed some tweeking.
Hopefully everything's dialed in and water-tight 'cause our first outing for 2023 is a trip to Nashville via VA and NC (Tail of the Dragon and Cherohala Skyway). That trip starts (most likely in the rain) this weekend!
Thanks for checking in guys! And if you made it all the way here...I hope found a little something useful or interesting.
Take care!
-Tom
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Great update as always Tom! If you find yourself in the Charlottesville, VA area on your trip let me know. You can stop by and check out the Nomad!
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Tom, lots of great details on your suspension upgrade.
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Now for some skid pad numbers.
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Tom, I was really hoping to hear of this being a miracle fix for a semi stiff front end. I understand that the 17" wheels we now have play a part in the stiffness but I was hoping this would compensate a bit more for it. In my case though I believe a lot of my "jarring/stiffness" comes from my rear shocks. I purchased the same air shocks as you did but I haven't gotten to install them yet. Like you my front end is up about 1/2" more than I would like even with 2" Hotchkiss drop coils. You ride height now looks to be perfect, did you have to change your rear air pressure to accommodate the front change and do you think having your caster changed/reset would help or is needed?
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Thanks Guys.
FormTA...After living with this set up for a couple of weeks now, I think I'll bump up the 'ride comfort/harshness' rating a bit. They were not a magic bullet. But, the front coilovers did help. After a hundred miles or so, I'd give them a better rating for the ride comfort/harshness issue. I'm willing to go up from 20% improvement to 30% improvement.
Dialing in the ride height was second on my list of 'wants'. These are perfect for that use. Expect to spend several days toying with them...Up on the spring, down on the dial setting...Down on both...What happens if you bring it way down, and dial the shock all the way up? Etc. This process annoyed Julie. I expected it...But (at the time) it felt a little like a PIA. Looking back, it wasn't that bad.
Regarding caster/alignment...
I think the instructions might say an alignment is required after the install. I felt like my car needed an alignment before the installation, so that was already on my list. The alignment paperwork indicated that the tow was way off, but the other measurements were OK. Based on what I was feeling with the car beforehand (Wandering, flinty or 'touchy' steering, Tramming on grooves/depressions), something was 'off' before I started. At any rate, I'd definitely recommend getting an alignment done after such a big change.
Oh..And the rear air shocks...I did reduce the pressure in those to bring the rear down about 1/2 in. from where it was sitting before. Julie and I are packing the trunk full of a week's vacation worth of stuff this weekend. One of the (obviously) awesome things about the air shocks is that...After I pack the car I can check the rear ride height and just pump a little air in there to keep it where it needs to be. BTW...I run very little pressure in the rear. IIRC something like 40lbs. (The Air Shocks have a min of 25psi and a max of something like 200psi.)
Let me know what you think of the High Jackers once you get them installed. They are old school, but I've had a really good experience with 'em. I'm curious whether you'll have the same experience.
Thanks again guys! Take care.
-Tom
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Hello again TAC!
I thought about posting this in a different TAC topic because this is sort of another 'road trip' post. But, there's also a 'project update' aspect too...One of the things I wanted to accomplish on this road trip was to get my PTFB subframe connectors welded in. I wanted to let you guys know if I noticed a difference between sub-frame connectors bolted in vs. welded. OH...And I also got some significant miles on the new coil over set up. I wanted to give an update on that too.
So, here goes...
I installed PTFB subframe connectors after the first season with my 'finished' TTA. We noticed a significant difference with these bars bolted in. The improvement was noticeable even from the passenger seat. They helped tighten up the car and reduce the shake or shock of road impacts moving through the body. The bolted in sub-frame connectors seemed to significantly reduce flex and the noises associated with that type of movement. However, the intent was always to get them welded up, as my understanding was that welded is better than bolted. Although they use nylon lock nuts, I had to check them and tighten them up regularly. I could feel and hear when they were coming loose. Additionally, there was one consistent noise from right behind and below the driver's door that I could not get rid of. That noise sounded like a 'clunk' to Julie. From my seat, it was more of a 'popping' sound that could be reproduced by doing things like putting the DS tire up on my driveway entrance. It occurred with the door open or closed. I'm convinced the noise is from the DS rocker panel sort of 'oil-canning'.
OK...So, there's not much to the actual project...
The weight needs to be on the car, so we put it up on blocks...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52885847168_e670676702_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozkMRb)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozkMRb) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Then, we removed the sub-frame connectors so things could be cleaned up for welding...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52885850103_cdb4d523fd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozkNHM)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozkNHM) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Oh...We also removed the rear seats and put a wet beach towel down under the carpet to prevent melting dynomat, damaging the carpet or (maybe) catching something on fire.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52885569334_e598e6338c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozjnfW)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozjnfW) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The towel got pretty hot, but I'm not sure that it would've been enough heat transfer from the welding to cause problems...better safe than sorry.
Finally...My brother welded them in...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52890702049_c316ba86c9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozLF32)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozLF32) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Alright, So...Did I notice a difference?
Yes. It feels to me as though welding the connectors in made a noticeable improvement. The car shutters less over bumps. It feels more solid and it has eliminated that last annoying noise I've been trying to get rid of for 3 seasons now. I wanted this car to be a cruiser, comfortable and quiet inside. No rattles, clunks or bangs. I think the ride/feel and rattle/noise level is about as good as it gets for a second Gen approaching 250,000 Mi. I'm super stoked. Honestly, there appears to be a certain size, shape or type of pot-hole that results in just the right frequency of vibration to draw attention. But the car handles around 90% of road defects with no problem, no cringy noises and no butt pucker inducing bangs.
So...Welded in vs. bolted in sub-frame connectors...Welded was noticeably better in my car.
Now, for the front coil-over update...
We drove from Philadelphia PA to Nashville TN last week. The trip included several hours of highway time + several hours of back road travel. Including an aggressive drive up the Tail of the Dragon and a cruise along the Cherohala Skyway.
I am increasing my ride and handling rating on the front coil over conversion project. Initially, I rated them at a 20% improvement in ride comfort/harshness...In my last post (after putting couple hundred miles on 'em) My estimate went up to 30%...After this road trip I'm going to up that % improvement to 45-50%. The car was really good on my last long trip. It was awesome on this one.
Check out these pics from the Tail of the Dragon (US-129 in NC).
(BTW that little blue dot way back there is my brother in his C6 'Vette trying to keep up with us.) ;-)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52885416096_846d07014d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozizGU)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozizGU) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickrd
For the record, I don't think my TTA handles better than a C6 'Vette. Here's proof. Chris did (eventually) catch up with us:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52891102698_de10d53922_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozNJ8L)TA + CRS C6 Tail of the Dragon 23 (https://flic.kr/p/2ozNJ8L) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52889941592_4dfbbcba22_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozGLYG)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozGLYG) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The pics below are from the Cherohala Skyway. It's right near the Tail of the Dragon and definitely worth the time if you are down near the Dragon.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52885854983_7dd3d9d270_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozkQaV)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozkQaV) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
This time of year, at 5000+ feet of elevation the trees haven't bloomed. It was cold up there!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52884832947_9028ac2bef_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozfAmB)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozfAmB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Further west...Southwest of Nashville TN we found the Natchez-Trace Parkway. This road was beautiful. It runs 400+ Miles all the way to Tupelo MS. It's just one long National Park type road. I'd recommend checking it out if you are headed that way. We only drove 50Miles or so from Nashville to Columbia TN...
Nashville TN:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52890920105_a2edb4ac7c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozMMRB)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozMMRB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The pics below show the typical picinic or overlook spots along this section of the Natchez-Trace Parkway
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52890918440_fbcccf35b9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozMMmU)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozMMmU) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52890990368_ba726ec0fb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozN9K3)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozN9K3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Columbia Motor Alley, Columbia TN:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52889959547_58afb0d34f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ozGSjg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2ozGSjg) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
That's it! I don't have any 'project' type plans for the car this Summer. But, I'll let you know if any problems come up. Or, if I have a change of heart regarding the welded sub-frame connectors or coil-overs. I may also let you know if we take it anywhere interesting again.
Thanks for checking in guys! Take care.
-Tom
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Great update Tom! Those shots of your car look so nice on that road. Where did you get them from? Was there a guy just taking pictures or something?
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Those pictures are amazing! Glad your car is starting to live up to all of your expectations.
I guess that settles it..... I'm going to weld my SFC in.....
With your experiences, I may even move to coil overs too.
Thanks for posting!
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Great update Tom! Those shots of your car look so nice on that road. Where did you get them from? Was there a guy just taking pictures or something?
I believe he is a professional ponographer. All his pictures are always outstanding.
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Great update Tom! Those shots of your car look so nice on that road. Where did you get them from? Was there a guy just taking pictures or something?
I believe he is a professional ponographer. All his pictures are always outstanding.
Hah! I thought that said "professional pornographer". I was gonna say..."I've dabbled, but I'm no pro. LOL."
Thanks for the compliments!
Those pics of the car going down the road on the Tail of the Dragon are professional. Along the 10 miles of the Dragon there are 3 or 4 spots where photogs are set up in pull-outs off to the side. They take pics of every car going by. The next day you can visit their website where pics are listed by time of day. Check them out and purchase pics if you want.
Since you liked those...Here are a couple more...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52893647744_42d2f9eefb_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oA2LFS)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oA2LFS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52893647859_26121b4d08_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oA2LHR)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oA2LHR) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
For those who don't know, the Tail of the Dragon is a section of US-129 near the NC/TN border.
It's an 11 mile section of road with 318 turns. If you like driving it'll put a smile on your face the whole way. You're only doing 25-30 MPH tops, but the turns are constant back and forth...Some drop you in like the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca, some have natural banking to them which really plants the car. This was my second time driving it (My kid and I drove the other direction coming home from the Power Tour last summer.)
It's a blast!
Here are a couple from when my kid and I ran it last summer on the way back from HRPT:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52893875995_bd28eff93e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oA3Wxe)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oA3Wxe) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52893940558_ef2a55f029_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oA4gJo)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oA4gJo) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
If you want to hit that area...
We spent a night in Gatlinburg TN. It's Super Touristy, but there's lots to do and lots of options for lodging). From there it's just a few miles to the 'Foothills Parkway'...A nice scenic park road, the parkway is a well maintained, two lane road with limited access. Maybe 25 Miles on the Foothills Pkwy and you end up at US-129 just a couple miles from the "Tail of the Dragon" section. We cruised South on US-129 Past Deals Gap (the end of the 'Dragon' section). Then it's just a few miles to the Cherohala Skyway...Another 'park' type road limited access two lane which climbs to a 5000+ Foot ridge. I believe people drive the Cherohala Skyway aggresively too. But we didn't see any shenanigans on there. We just cruised the Skyway. Julie was such a good sport...Just hangin' on and not commenting while I pushed the car hard down the US-129...I didn't want to push my luck when we got to the Skyway. The Cherohala Skyway is like 45 miles. It ends up in Tapico Plains TN, about 20Miles south of Knoxville.
With stops for shopping, scenery, and wildlife fun (saw a couple bears)...the drive from Gatlinburg to Tapico Plains via these awesome back roads took us about 4 hours.
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Awe Man...Reading back over my last project update from May hurts. Entering our 4th season with our 'finished' TTA, the car was really dialed in.
Then...this happened:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52923198467_de0d22f74f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oCDe66)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oCDe66) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
A Jeep Renegade driver named Albert was in a rush. Albert thought I was turning right (when I was actually turning left). Albert decided he could save 2-3 valuable seconds if he crossed the double yellow line to pass me as ws executing my turn. Albert made his move to gun it and get into the opposing traffic lane just as I turned left. The Jeep Renegade's steel bumper crunched my driver-side door. That's all I'm sayin about "The Albert Incident" itself in this thread. It's just too soon for me. The Albert Incident is documented in my "OH NO!" post in the Lobby if you're curious.
http://www.transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=84825.0
So, our '81 TTA is back in the body shop. Aside from the door, damage from the collision stretched from the left front fender to the left B-Pillar and over the roof to a dip at the rear corner of the passenger side T-Top. Luckily, measurements from the rear frame rails to the front subframe seem to verify my driving impression and visual inspection...The shell itself does not appear to be significantly tweaked. I honestly believe that the welded-in PTFB sub-frame connectors saved the car from ending up in a frame shop.
Collision repair work itself is going OK. The spots on the body shell that were tweaked popped back into place with a little massaging. The new door from Firebird Central seems to be of decent quality. It fit pretty well. And Classic Auto Painting in Mt. Juliet TN is working their magic...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52987922884_cce7b44f38_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oJmXpj)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oJmXpj) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52992378026_ebe1aa3dba_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oJKML7)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oJKML7) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Of course once you dig in, you might as well fix things like a little ding from season 1, when my battery tie-down busted allowing the battery to whack the rear quarter from the inside out. And, the spot under the paint on the Passenger side B-Piller that cropped up in Season 3. It was not a rust bubble, just some sort of funkiness in the body filler around the roof seam. Although the spot wasn't terrible, it was to us. And, it drove Julie nuts (Being right at her eye level on her side of the car).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53021217721_d3f1f175f0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMiANe)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oMiANe) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And, headed into Season 4, I noticed a bubble forming on the lower, rear section of the left fender, a couple of inches forward of the driver's side door. As is usually the case, the small bubble was indicative of a bigger rust spot brewing down below the paint.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53032824844_86acc160b0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oNk6c3)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oNk6c3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
THEN, there are the spots I had no idea needed attention, but Classic Auto spotted when they went over the car with their more nuanced and experienced eye. For example, there was a small crack forming at the front edge of the Right fender. That crack would be making itself known to less kean eyed observers sooner rather than later. So, off comes the nose to correct that...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53020641212_346322a722_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMfDqq)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oMfDqq) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Now, we are weighing doing some pre-emptive work...
Since the car's already apart and all dusty from body work, maybe we should get into the lower rear section of the RIGHT fender. (I mean, both fenders were prepped the same way. If the left side has a problem there's a fair chance a similar problem will crop up on the right side at some point.)
BUT...I want my car back! This car IS my leisure time during the summer. We really miss it. We've got to turn the corner toward laying the paint down in order to save my summer (and sanity).
To that end...
We are headed back to Nashville this weekend to pay up on some of the sweat equity we have to contribute in order for Classic Auto Painting to squeeze my old friend into the shop this summer. The one upside to this whole situation is that I have an awesome and talented brother in the body and paint business. And, I get to hang out with him a little extra this summer. Even if I do leave his place looking like this every day...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53021609935_7033fff18d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMkBox)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oMkBox) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Thanks for checking in everyone.
Take care.
-Tom
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Great progress, I am pretty impressed on how well that repo door looks. I think understand your mixture of pain and happiness. Having your car down during the summer sucks, on the other hand those spots on the lower front fenders are only going to get worse if you don't tend to them now.
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Glad that they were able to squeeze you in Tom. Sounds like you'll be on the road sooner than later. There are worse places to be than Nashville. :lol:
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I am so sorry for you that this happened; our TA's are our babies! I know how I would feel.
You are lucky to have a brother to help you and you have already made a lot of progress. I know it will look great in the end.
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Sorry about the car. :-( I was curious about the cup holders, how painful was it to cut the console?
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Wow
not sure what else to say!!
Sorry, you have to go through this!!
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Hello TAC!
A quick update on the collision repair and some other stuff that has come up...
The car is pretty close to being ready for paint!
That spot at the lower rear of the front fender has been repaired. As was suspected, there is an inner support in that area and the primer and bedliner treatment, applied after the fender was blasted didn't make it deep enough down in between those two panels. With the outer panel cut away you could see an area where water was running down an untreated area of the inner support. At the bottom, where the inner and outer panels meet, the outer panel rusted through:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53032824844_86acc160b0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oNk6c3)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oNk6c3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I found a full patch panel for the rear section of the front fender (ChicagoMusclecarparts.com was the only place that had them. But, when we opened things up it wasn't as bad as it looked so some clean-up, proper treatment of the inner panel, and a relatively small patch was all that was required...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124523898_7c78a6856d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr58d)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr58d) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
We had a close look at the same area on the passenger side. We ground back through the paint and skim coat of body filler, but everything looked OK. We figured we were in it this deep, and the welder was already out so we dug all the way in... Chris cut a small hole in the outer panel to inspect the area between the inner brace and outer sheetmetal. On this side the primer and bedliner treatment made it deeper in between the two panels. So no significant rust had formed. But we did find a little bare metal in there. We used Eastwood's internal frame coating, with its 360 degree spray tip to get some protection up in between the two panels. Then closed it back up...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53123441297_a4ba940ea7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWkwiF)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWkwiF) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124250684_6434ea2e1d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWpEUC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWpEUC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Unfortunately, we were not as lucky with the spot behind the driver's door. When we pulled the left rear wheel flare off, it was obvious there was a problem. And it just got uglier the deeper we went...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124278559_391d7a4001_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWpPce)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWpPce) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Ultimately, Chris cut all the rust out of the inner and outer panels, treated everything else inside the door jamb, b-pillar and rocker was treated with the Eastwood internal Frame Coating stuff, and closed back up...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124046546_4c7154de31_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWoCe1)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWoCe1) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Same as for the problem area on the front fenders, Chris performed some exploratory surgery on that area behind the passenger side flare. Again, no significant rust on this side, but we took the opportunity to treat those inner and outer panels with the same Eastwood stuff.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124530188_5348ac569f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr6ZE)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr6ZE) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
So, as of today the body worked area's of the TA are all in primer, setting up for a final block sanding. This weekend we will do that final block sanding on the reworked area's. Assuming that goes smoothly (pun intended) the whole thing will get wet-sanded to 600 grit (I think). Final cleaning, then it's into the booth for final prep, taping and paint! Everything is getting painted except for the hood, decklid and front facia.
Hopefully, this time next week Chris will be laying the paint down.
Fingers crossed! I finally might see the light at the end of the tunnel sometime in the next few days!
Even if everything goes well, it'll be a few weeks before it's all back together. Although most of the little side jobs that have popped up have been addressed, the latest unexpected issue is another PIA job...
While working on cleaning up the T-Top weather strip rail area for paint, I was in close proximity to the headliner. I noticed it had started to sag! Right in the middle, above the back seat! UGH!
1/2 the interior is out already so we pulled the headliner out and found this...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53123445832_c46741c2f9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWkxDS)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWkxDS) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124046641_0b0d5a8e63_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWoCfD)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWoCfD) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53123445842_396df3db76_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWkxE3)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWkxE3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
It wasn't the expected adhesive failure causing the droop. The actual ABS plastic backing board had warped!
So, I had to take the whole thing apart...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124250789_ea1c68db78_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWpEWr)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWpEWr) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And now I'm waiting on a new backing board and foam so that I can re-make my headliner. awesome.
Man...I really hope to get a glimpse at that light at the end of the tunnel soon!
Oh..One more thing...The TV in 'my' room down at my brother's led me to the free streaming service called Tubi. Alongside some very nostalgic 80's and 90's TV shows I found the NHRA channel. Where they rerun TV coverage of NHRA events from the 60's, 70's and 80's. While the Racers and commentators are fun to watch (Check these guys out):
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124530093_45b9fa7e10_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr6Y2)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr6Y2) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The best thing is seeing those awesome 70's Pro-stock and Funny cars like Jungle Jim, the Blue Max and gems like this one:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53124530128_aef3f6a676_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr6YC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oWr6YC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
If you remember watching these guys as a little kid, check it out. It's both fun and funny.
Thanks for checking in guys!
Take care.
-Tom
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Thanks for the update Tom,
I have been meaning to shoot you a line to see how things were coming along. Glad to see youre nearing the finish line. I hope the other drivers insurance has been treating you kindly. I also would not be surprised if the headliner was tweaked in the accident.
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Wow, that lower quarter section was pretty bad! Glad that you were able to get at it now, before it became a problem in the next few years. You probably don't think so, but you are getting very close now Tom. The great thing is you can still drive the car without the headliner :cool:. Heck, I drove my Camaro after it was painted with some seats bolted in and the dash board haha. Didn't even have the door glass installed!
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Looking great and will be a comfort knowing these issues were addressed while it was already tore apart
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Looks like you have made great progress. Since you don’t want to paint again it’s fortunate you found the rust and took care of the lower front fender now.
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Thx guys.
It WAS really nice to feel like progress is being made. Now that this ordeal is almost over I AM glad we got to repair some sketchy spots and defects that had popped up over the past 3 seasons.
And Ryeguy is also right that…all of a sudden, just like that, it’s Almost done! But, not without what I hope is one last hiccup…
Last trip down I got the power door lock actuator and power window regulator installed with the 'correct' peel rivets. The new door was not marked or drilled for the actuator, so we had to make a template from the original door in order to mark the holes...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53021607140_74cc2fdf63_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMkAym)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oMkAym) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
While installing the window motor I noticed that, although I ordered the same part number as before, the peel rivets I got this time appeared to be a little long. One, of the rivets in particular didn't peel back entirely but my initial check indicated it was clearing the window fine. Turns out...It wasn't. The window in a certain position, and just the right vibration from a TN thunder storm lead to this...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153802926_16f3b853da_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ28L3)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ28L3) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
No need to zoom in...That is a door full of shattered glass.
So, I spent time replacing the window and the poorly installed rivet while Chris worked through a guide coat on the body worked areas...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53154003159_de45ae1dd7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ3ahk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ3ahk) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And Julie wet sanded the rest of the car to prep for a fresh coat of black
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153220347_94202e517b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYY9zz)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oYY9zz) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153796321_3868c692ef_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ26Na)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ26Na) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The hood isn't getting repainted for budgetary reasons. But Classic Auto did work to touch up a couple of areas that required some maintenance/touch up...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153797286_56ea81995f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ275N)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ275N) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53154004664_975727a5d0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ3aJh)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ3aJh) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
We learned during the first go around that I was not good at bodywork stuff. But...with all the bodywork and sanding complete, I finally got to apply MY body shop, paint prep related skill...Cleaning!
For the first time this summer my TTA got a proper wash ahead of moving into the paint booth:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53154231580_4e19e97609_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ4kbC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ4kbC) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Three months in a body shop left the interior a mess too...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153228672_84a31c491d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYYc47)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oYYc47) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
So, yeah...this is me cleaning and vacuuming our interior at around 9:30PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153804916_b2d63825aa_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ29mm)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ29mm) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
. We had stopped work for the day around 3:00 with the TTA ready to move into the booth. Because it was literally 100 degrees outside Chris didn't want to open the big bay doors to the climate-controlled shop. So, went out on the boat for a few hours, then stopped at the shop around 9:00 to move the car to the booth. The car hadn't run in a month or so, so I convinced Chris and Julie to wait while the car ran a while and got up to temp. Really, I just needed to buy a few minutes to clean things up inside. It was driving me nuts.
The next day I continued cleaning every nook and cranny of the car while Chris and Julie taped it up...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53154016259_2640a9f8b8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ3ebc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ3ebc) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
We left TN last Thursday. This past Tuesday they finally had a break in the heat/humidity where Classic Auto felt comfortable laying down the paint. And...
BAM!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53154306198_e5bfae74d0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ4Hn9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZ4Hn9) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53153235057_1fdf4edd45_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oYYdXc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oYYdXc) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
It's all the same color again! Whoo Hoo! Next trip to TN we'll be bringin' a trailer for the TTA's ride home!
I got this update from Classic today...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53156427340_abd8f37499_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZfzUy)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZfzUy) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
They've 'de-nibbed' the paint and made a first cut with 1500 Grit. I'm told this is a little trick...knocking off the top layer about 48Hrs after laying down the clear coat helps the last remnants of solvent 'gas out' of the clear? It'll sit like this for about a week. Before a final cut with 2000 grit and polishing.
The plan is to make one last trip to TN next weekend. Spend a few days getting things back together such that the car will be happy bouncing around on a trailer. Then, the 800 mile, slow, careful, butt-clinching tow back to Philly.
I'm guessing it'll take a week or so to install the interior, weather stip, decals...stuff like that...Then we're back on the road!
As part of this final assembly, we'll be adding something new...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53156001231_5311d0a9f3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZdpeR)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oZdpeR) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The plan is to install this LED CHMSL inside, across the top of the rear window. I'm also working on a setup that'll use the four individual tail lights (with LED bulbs) as sequential turn signals. I'll let you know how I make out on a mounting solution for the CHMSL. The sequential turn signals will come after the season is over. I'm jonesing to get some miles under our belt this season.
Thanks again for the words of encouragement everyone. It's crazy, but I was having a real physical and emotional response to seeing my car torn apart. Right up until our 4th or 5th visit to the shop in TN. (We've made 6 trips so far.) It was nice to have this little support group!
Thanks for checking in.
Take care.
-Tom
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Tom, so glad youre nearing the end of this automotive nightmare. Not one that any of us want to go through. It all could have been a lot worse, you were spared serious injury, and you were able to save your beloved car. Looking back you can call it the 4 year refresh! Not that a repaint is what you wanted, but you now have a 'new' fresh car to tool around. Only this time you have the mechanicals dialed in and should be good to go. At least fall is a good time cruise with our dreaded heat and humidity on the decline.
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Heck Yeah Tom!! That's a fantastic update. So crazy about how that window shattered though?!
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Tom,
What a roller coaster ride you have been on this year. Your TA is looking really nice! Bet you can’t wait to get behind the wheel again.
I am looking forward to seeing what you do with LED CHMSL. Maybe something I would consider if it’s not very noticeable until it’s illuminated, then I would want the whole world to see it. I like these subtle little touches you have incorporated into your car.
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You're right 5th T/A...A roller coaster ride is a good analogy for our '23 Summer. Our Summer '23 coaster has had loops and everything! And, although I love a good roller coaster ride...I'm ready to get off this one!
Another good analogy would be a game of “Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots”. This thing has been fighting us all the way!
We headed down to Nashville a couple (or 3) weeks ago. We had two days to get the car together and closed up such that it'd be happy on a trailer for 800+ miles. I'll spare you the gory details, but here are some highlights (and lowlights)...
All the body work and paint seems to have come up really well...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214361469_af1c70dfbc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5nvGR)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5nvGR) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214361454_61e6112209_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5nvGA)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5nvGA) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
That said...For a bunch of reasons, we didn't have time to get a fully detailed cut and buff completed. So our already significant @Home To-Do list grew longer. We'll have to do some of the final cutting ourselves.
Step one was reinstalling the front facia. This is the original nose which was not repainted because repairs from the first go 'round had been holding up and a replacement wasn't in the budget.
Unfortunately, at some point, just handling the thing led to a nasty crack
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214428453_907dd78309_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5nRBK)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5nRBK) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
This was one of my worries all summer. And it has come up time and time again. Just being in a shop environment and the act of spending hours and hours working on and around the car, things that were fine beforehand now require additional attention.
Step two was something that DID need attention before the collision, and would finally get addressed as part of this process…Replacing the T-Top weatherstrip.
The stuff we installed back in 2019 never fit great, and already had developed holes at the seams. This time around I chose an OER-branded weatherstrip (ThePartsPlace PN WS1012Z). IMHO, these seem to be an improvement over the Metro Supersoft set that was in the car. The locating tabs are hard plastic (not rubber). And, the intersection where the T-Top Panel meets the strip on the body is a different design. The joint is moved about an inch inward (toward the center of the panel). I think this is an improved design. But, It meant that I had to unexpectedly take the T-Top panels apart to replace the weatherstrip on the panel. just to get the top in the hole.
THEN I had to adjust all 8 T-Top adjusting points to get the T-Tops locked down on the new weatherstrip.
And, of course...This situation added another item to my @Home To-Do after we got home...Properly adjust the T-Top panels.
Next up I had to install the outer window sweeps to protect the windows while the car is bobbing and weaving on the trailer home. Step three...Problems 3 and 4...
Out of the box the new outer window sweeps were super crappy. Now, I can't speak to every set of window sweeps that come from this brand ("Reprops" PN C-10710-14KBR @ one of the big CLASSIC restoration parts sources). I’d like to think that they can't all possibly be this terrible. They were more gray than black. They were super thin, and not the least bit straight. Additionally, they did not have all the mounting locations drilled out.
Look at these things!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53235183381_ef43cc80cc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p7dekk)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p7dekk) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
For the record...Here's what that crappy one looks like next to the OER replacement (sitting loose on the door):
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214354659_3961377934_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5ntFr)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5ntFr) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
One more addition to the @Home To-Do list...Replace the outer window felts again.
Worst of all this where the fourth problem of the day (And the straw that broke my emotional camel's back) came up...
While installing the outer window felt/sweep two of the screws pushed on the outer door skin causing a couple of dings and waves! Right at the top of the driver's door where I have to see it every time I get in the car.
I don't know if you noticed it in the pic above...Here's a closer look...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53234336327_9e5c6639c1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p78TwX)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p78TwX) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I thought I was being careful. I did not crank down on the screws. And I even reused the screws that came off the last set(A couple of which were original parts). Regardless of whether it's the replacement door or the sweep shape/tolerances that are different, this was a stupid mistake on my part.
Coming where it did within the day, and within the project as a whole, this little mistake almost led me to a full-on meltdown. I'm a very level-headed person, but I felt my eyes start to tear up when I saw the nasty outward ding in my fresh, newly painted door. Then, I started laughing at myself for almost crying over such a silly mistake...Simultaneously laughing and crying! My wife walked in and thought I might need to be committed. But I'm all better now. :???:
Other issues included busting my Satellite radio antenna (Which will be a PIA to reinstall), A couple of lug nuts that decided to cross-thread, and a realization that interior parts that were painted (or repainted/touched up) while we had them out of the car, do not match. Even though we used the same color paint (Some of it literally left over from in a can we used to paint everything the first time)! A different color primer/base coat is the most likely cause for the color difference. Oh…and a lost set of ‘68 rear marker lights (Since found in the glove box…Ugh.)
All in all, I think we added around 8 additional items to our @Home To-Do list. But we did get the car closed up, out in the sun...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214486965_a3f2f5045d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5oa1z)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5oa1z) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
...on the trailer...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53235524303_d731ab43e1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p7eYFi)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p7eYFi) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
...and had a safe trip home...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214486930_8618e324e3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5o9ZY)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5o9ZY) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53235597139_cdfcc7e0cd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p7fmk6)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p7fmk6) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53235225586_3495373168_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p7drT1)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p7drT1) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
We've started knocking stuff off of that @Home To-Do list. And, the good news is the car's been cooperating more now that it's back in its own garage.
So, it looks like the coaster train is pulling back into the station...I just hope the operator hits the brakes as we approach the platform! I want OFF!
Thanks for checking in.
Take care.
-Tom
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Been following the progress and it looks like things are shaping up for you. Great to see the progress and looking forward to more updates!
Jim
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Sorry about the door but man, overall it looks fanfastic! Glad she is back home!
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Glad your car is back home Tom, things will def. be looking up now that its back in its own garage. Will make working on it a lot easier!!
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Congrats on getting the car home Tom! Bummer about the dent, but you should contact a local PDR guy. They can do amazing things and that dent is pretty accessible for them.
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Tom, car looks beautiful, and even though it’s not quite perfect you’re 99% there. Keep in mind the paint and body work on your car is far above anything GM could produce back in the 70’s. I know you drive your car a lot and it’s hard to avoid tiny stone chips. In reality no one else is likely to notice these minor imperfections that annoy you. It’s time to go for some nice drives and enjoy your car,
Last year there was a thread on inferior quality window sweeps. At that time the general consensus was Fairchild sweeps through Summit were pretty decent.
http://www.transamcountry.com/community/index.php?topic=84471.0
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5th said what I was going to post. I replaced my sweeps in 2011; I don't remember the brand but they were pretty good. The Fairchild brand on Summit gets good reviews:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fcd-kg2096a/make/pontiac/model/firebird/year/1979 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fcd-kg2096a/make/pontiac/model/firebird/year/1979)
I also have a set of metro T-top seals I need to put in but maybe I should switch.
That paint looks fantastic! Sorry about the door and window. You have done a crazy amount of work on that car and I am sure you will look back on the latest round as quite an improvement over the way it was before.
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Tom, I feel you on the door ding. I worked so hard on my car and I'm super careful with it. I then dropped a wrench kn the fender the other day.... I almost lost it but then, like you reminded myself, it's just a car and I get to drive it and we'll, $&%@ happens....
You car looks awesome man! Glad you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
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Hello again TAC,
My car and I seem to have settled on a truce. Since the car's been home it has been much more cooperative.
Nothing too interesting came up while going through the punch list. But, I did try something new with the windows and I wanted to share where I'm at with the CHMSL third brake light. Let me know what you think of it...
During the initial restoration, it took pretty much the whole first summer of driving to get the side windows dialed in. I had eyeballed the manual, but that first time through the 'adjust-check-drive-readjust' method was frustrating to go through. This time around I combined an actual study of the Fisher Body Manual AND the use of the correct tools.
Specifically these things...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266730173_6454d8ffcc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p9ZV6x)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p9ZV6x) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Those are Glass Alignment Gage Blocks. GM PN J-23394-1 and J23394-2 (x2). People are 3-D printing these things now, and the set I got from EBay fit very precisely. I followed the instructions in the Door section of the Fisher Body manual, Chapter 5, Page 59:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53214692010_7e4b570c85_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p5pcXQ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p5pcXQ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And got the windows pretty much dead on in one session.
The only downside is that the weatherstip has to be out of the car in order to use these tools. But, if you plan ahead, these can save some time and frustration. Worth the couple of bucks in my opinion.
I kept the manual out to get the T-Tops adjusted too...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266448316_55b1242c2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p9YtiW)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p9YtiW) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
One thing I -was- looking forward to knocking off the punch list was installing a new set of tail lights. These weren't being reproduced when I started the restoration in 2015. So, I had spent a lot of time trying to get my old tail light lenses looking acceptable. Those came out improved, but still not great. These new ones (PN 5937036 &5937034 from FBCentral) were not cheap @ $300. But, they make the rear of the car look way cleaner...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53275860945_cb5fecd5f3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2paNHmD)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2paNHmD) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(Note: In the pic above the old gas door with it's worn hinge was still in place. A new gas door assembly is on there now...looking much more straight.)
One thing did come up with the new lights installed...
The gap between the tail lights and the bumper was much larger then I remember it being...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53275746579_e66fa17349_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2paN8mP)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2paN8mP) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I can't say if it is the tail lights that are different, or if things just aligned differently after having the car apart. Either way, this was easily corrected by installing a couple of washers between the bumper cover and the metal bumper inside there.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53274503212_2d35f913bf_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2paFKKs)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2paFKKs) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
One last thing about the back end...I mentioned earlier that the accident last spring had me considering installing a third brake light. Here's what I've come up with. Let me know what you think...
Off-
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266748074_001462dce1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pa11qb)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pa11qb) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
On -
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266869075_d6be6f9b15_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pa1Cop)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pa1Cop) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And from inside -
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266399576_7ae7f1a20e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p9YdPA)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p9YdPA) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I'm still working on the final installation (I wont be using blue masking tape to hold the housing up.). But, this set up is bearly noticeable when off, and it's going to give me a little peace of mind with all the miles I like to put on this thing.
Speaking of miles...Although it's rained every weekend for the past month, I still got a couple of decent drives in..
Callicoon, NY
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266918315_a1f4489ebd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pa1T2n)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pa1T2n) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Limerick, PA
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266427861_7b78cf7da3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p9Yneg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p9Yneg) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Valley Forge National Park, PA
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53275398226_03afd28717_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2paLkNJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2paLkNJ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Eagle-eyed observers may have noted that there are no graphics on the sides (Sail panels and fender decals). I haven't installed them yet because the car still needs a final cut and polish. Classic Auto Paint did some cutting and polishing but did not entirely finish it out. Mid-November I'll be taking it to a local shop to get the finish polish completed.
After that, it'll be wintertime. And...Just like that, it's time to make a NEW punch list for off-season projects. It really does never end. But, I'm not complainin'.
Thanks for checking in guys.
Take care.
-Tom
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Wow Tom! Cat looks great! I really like the third brake light. I really should do oemne too. I like how you can't even tell it's there.
You really put the miles on that thing!
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Looks great, a lot happier than a few months ago. They sure get insurance jobs moving compared to matching projects.
The original 79-81 tail light repros were produced here in Australia, but as with anything, the moulds are elsewhere and quickly become available to anyone to put their brand name on. I wonder how many different lights there actually are, or the same pieces.
3rd light is a neat option, blends in nicely. Is it a purpose made assembly strip that size or a length of LEDs? I looked at a few options as well, nothing too seriously, none really matched the glass angle or sealed the light beam. I didn't do any tests to see just how much was even reflected with the glass.
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Tom, beautiful is an understatement! I bet your sleeping a little better now.
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Great work Tom! Glad to see you out in the car again! If you ever find yourself on I81 near Harrisonburg, VA shoot me a text. I'd love to meet up and see that car in person. Also, FWIW Skyline drive is 15 mins from my house and is an amazing drive!
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Thanks Ryan...I might take you up on that next time I'm driving down I-81. I've driven through there 100 times. Maybe we can hook up for lunch next time I have the TA down that way.
It's been awesome having the car back. I'm still working to get it fully dialed back in, but it's getting there. It really has been nice being able to enjoy our favorite leisure pass-time again.
The third brake light has made driving the car much more comfortable for me. I used to constantly worry that people behind wouldn't recognize my brake lights. (A lot of people driving today probably don't know cars didn't always have three brake lights!) It's given me a lot of peace of mind. That said...
My mounting solution is a fail...
The light itself is just a universal 35" "Red Car Third Brake Strip Light - Flexible High Mount Stop Brake Light IP67 Waterproof & 108pcs Lamp Beads" It's an LED strip essentially encased in a rubber housing.
Mounting it like I want, requires a shape like this...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53277548992_665300a52b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2paXn9U)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2paXn9U) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
The top (with the cut-outs slides in the rear headliner trim. The vertical piece is where the LED strip mounts w/3M dble sided tape. Then, the bottom flat piece covers out to the window (To control the Light out the back window and keep it from just lighting up the whole back seat.)
My initial attempt was to make that shape with some sheet metal. The problem with that was that the mount needs a crown in it long ways across, to match the shape of the roof. Once the metal is bent to the z shape, it wont bend that way (at least not without the appropriate metal working tools (and skills for that matter).
I decided to try making the shape by heating and bending some 1/8" FRP plastic sheeting I had laying around.
After a bunch of attempts to figure out how to work with the stuff...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53277504157_5b6d924791_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2paX8PT)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2paX8PT) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I ended up with the setup I showed earlier...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53266399576_7ae7f1a20e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2p9YdPA)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2p9YdPA) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Unfortunately, working the plastic with heat I ended up with an unstable shape that seems to have some 'bad' memory. After a few cycles of sitting in the sun, then cooling it lost its shap across the bottom. You can see how it's no longer straight across on the part that goes back to the window...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53278436371_970cf4aa0b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pb2UWx)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pb2UWx) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Long story short...I'm currently working on a new solution, using three pieces fo FPR (instead of heating and bending one piece). Then, using epoxy to stick them together. I think I this method is gonna work. The problem I'm having now is getting a nice finished look to the whole contraption.
This whole exercise is worth the time 'cause of the piece of mind the extra visibility is giving me.
Next week I'm taking the car to get the new paint cut and buffed out. It hasn't felt fully 'finished' yet. I'm hoping getting that done will do the trick and get the paint all the way back to where it was before Albert crashed into me.
I've been thinking of winter projects...
There are a couple things I need to get taken care of, both are a PIA to deal with...
- I need to install new, new Turn signal switch (New parts SUCK these days. The switch in the column now has lasted barely 12 months before it started acting up.)
- The passenger side dome light switch in the door isn't working. The wire just came off..Should be simple fix, but that passenger side kick panel is permenantly installed with me trying to get it sealed up plus the AC Lines running through it. Getting it out to gain access to plug in one stupid wire is probably going to take a few days.
- Pretty much all the interior hard plastic needs to come out for a repaint. (Replacement parts from the collision do not match the earlier restored parts. Oh...And the SEM '70 GTO Red' we used first time around is no longer available. So, I have to send a sample to get a custom color mixed. I suppose it's cool you can do that these days, but I just know it's going to take multiple tries to get the interior 'right' again.
I do have one project planned that I think will be interesting and cool...
I'm going to try to put together a 4-way sequential turn signal set up for the rear lights.
I'm not crazy about the LED panels that are available, so I'm going to work get two way 1157 bulbs in all 4 positions, then install a sequencer to sequence all 4 lights across the back for turn signals/flashers. I may keep the incandescent 1157 bulbs or maybe install 1157 LED replacement bulbs.
Anyway. Sorry I don't have anything more interesting to report.
I'll let you know how my 'Custom SEM ColorCoat' order works out. And, I'll definitely share my sequential turn signal project when I get to that...Probably after Christmas.
Thanks for checking in...Take care everyone.
-Tom
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Looks good Tom, I was thinking about you on my recent mid west adventure. We spent a couple of days in Nashville and went right through Mt Juliet. I was temped to stop and look up your brother.
I know you drive the heck out of your car, we need to get together this spring for a saturday cruise someplace.
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Great job on all the work you have done! It is awesome to see everything is back together again. Really hoping you have all the opportunities to drive your car. It looks really awesome!
Jim
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Hello TAC!
I’ve been lurking around here this winter but my laptop died, so I haven’t posted anything. The good news for you is that my commentary should be less long winded typing on my IPad.
The biggest off season project we had was redoing around 85% of the interior. Replacement interior parts from the accident did not match the stuff we refinished 4 or 5 years ago. So we pulled all the hard plastic out…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648581140_afec6b019b_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJK15U)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJK15U) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Cleaned prepped, and painted everything…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53647246132_5875564825_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJCaew)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJCaew) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648119216_42024e501d_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGCLG)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGCLG) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
While everything was out we contacted Legendary Auto Interiors about the leather. The seat cover leather had a painted on dye that was failing. It was wearing funny and cracking with natural tan color showing through
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53413724654_40c7956c6e_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pnZir9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pnZir9) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53413725164_85d9c4d7ec_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pnZizW)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pnZizW) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53413725174_66593a49f6_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pnZiA7)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pnZiA7) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Legendary stepped up and replaced all the leather under warranty. I don’t have any really good pics, but the new leather looks more modern, less old leather couch.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648584835_3808d7f792_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJK2bB)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJK2bB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I’ll get some better pics of the new stuff…but that pic reminds me…We also installed a new shifter plate ‘cause the silver chrome stuff wore off. Here’s the new one. I sprayed a clear coat over it to hopefully make that chrome highlight edge last more than 3 seasons
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648466099_69696d19a4_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJpTr)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJpTr) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Another big project was the sequential tail lights. A favorite of mine since my dad bought a 72 Cougar when I was like 7 years old. To do this in the TA we had to modify the taillight housings…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648453639_42ebfc6990_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJmbB)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJmbB) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
the two outer bulb positions had to be modified to fit 1157 bulb housings.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648108751_4175d31b5b_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGzEg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGzEg) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I made a template from the existing holes…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648108756_6d682a1d5d_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGzEm)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGzEm) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648574215_806e8b2d79_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJY2v)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJY2v) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Cut that out and did some other trimming to get the 1157 housings to fit…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648574210_cf146114c6_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJY2q)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJY2q) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648455724_18bf8e2f69_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJmNy)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJmNy) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Then pull out the harness to rewire for the new 1157 bulbs and the 4-way sequencer chumpies…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648457429_8602ed5f1d_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJniX)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJniX) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Here’s a link to the finished product…
https://youtu.be/vq0ACOG6mKg?si=AkB5Ra2WmBqxCH_F (https://youtu.be/vq0ACOG6mKg?si=AkB5Ra2WmBqxCH_F)
I would have liked to wire for the instant on brake lights but that requires wiring up to the column signal wires and we had just put the interior back in. May change that in the future.
Of course after redoing that rear harness the fuel gauge stopped working. After going through the wires again I figured out the gauge somehow died…which was a whole other PIA because the custom backlight color paint
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648464324_da6b9ddca5_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJpmQ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJJpmQ) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
And custom face…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648335763_653f807095_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJHK9g)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJHK9g) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I had to take the gauge apart to move the face to the new gauge.
Then it was on to cleaning a summers worth of body shop dust and repaint overspray from under the hood.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53647257142_2a57dbf2c0_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJCdvm)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJCdvm) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Those intake tubes are new…they opened another unexpected project to rewire the IAT and MAF together so I didn’t have to drill an IAT bung into the carbon fiber tubes.
Right now I’m working on getting a set of GTO LS3 coil or fuel rail covers to fit my LS1 w/vintage air’s QuickTime compressor mount…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648593690_9fc58c87da_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJK4Ph)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJK4Ph) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
Some cutting and relocating the trans and oil dip sticks go the them in…
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53648129416_f6c8390cfe_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGFNy)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2pJGFNy) by Tom Sherer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152255092@N02/), on Flickr
I’m working on finishing them up to remove the GTO and repaint. Then I’m working on an idea to cover the AC compressor with a carbon fiber looking shroud.
I’ll post pics of the finished product and the new interior soon.
Thanks for checking in…I hope everyone has been well.
Take care.
Tom
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Great to hear from you Tom! Car still looking great! Giid to hear legendary stood behind their stuff!
Ya. An engine cover is on my list for my LS1 swaped car too. Those LS just look so unfinished although yours still looks way better than mine but I never detailed mine as well as it looks you did.
Looks like you may have single handedly kept SEM in business with all that red dye consumption!
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Tom, you have been very busy. Hard to believe how bad the seat covers deteriorated in such a short period. The replacements look so much better. I had a friend who ordered Legendary interior panels and the color was not same as the original. He got part way through the installation before he realized the colors were off. Since he drilled a few small holes, Legendary refused to give him a refund. In the past I have heard nothing but good things about them, glad they did the right thing for you.
I also loved the Ford sequential turn signals, never would have thought of integrating them into my car. Every time I see your car I notice custom little touches like the little pocket on the left side of your console that I assume is to hold your phone. How did you do that?
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Looks good Tom. You are the first person I have heard of that wore out a pair of seats! And I mean that in a good way :grin:
When I did my 77 I had a problem with my legendary door panels but it was my fault. I sent them back and they replaced with the correct part a year after I ordered them. That said a lot to me and I have never looked elswhere.
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What's the story with the leather seat covers? Did Legendary offer a custom material and colour option in factory style? It looks like the original set was exactly that, recoated over an existing shade, and very glossy. The creases just made it looked aged, and original!
The replacements are far better using actual red leather. It looks like a pic of mine early on of my tan leather interior that a guy photoshopped into red for a laugh. Still hurts my eyes, just because you recognise a pic but the colours are all wrong and silly brain tries to adjust. Pity it can't reassemble panels too.
The engine covers may come up nicely if the GTO lettering is removed and then perhaps an inlay strip of some sort in that entire panel, stainless, carbon fibre, even decals along it.
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Looking great Tom! That carbon fiber intake tube looks killer! When you upgraded to the 85MM MAF, did you recalibrate your tune? If not, you'll likely have some issues going from the 78MM LS1 style MAF. I can't exactly remember your setup, but wanted throw it out there if that's the case. All that's needed is to update the Hz table in the MAF table so it's not a huge deal.
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Looks awesome! Noone is going to miss you coming to a stop!