TAC Tech => Racing => Topic started by: Garry on May 18, 2017, 12:21:57 PM

Title: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 18, 2017, 12:21:57 PM
Deleted because I'm that pissed off about it.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: takid455 on May 18, 2017, 09:09:34 PM
That's pretty good. Quicker than most muscle of yesterday...not today however.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 18, 2017, 09:30:59 PM
My 60 foots totally sucked, up in the 2s. It's a 73 Formula with a 461.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 18, 2017, 09:36:35 PM
Need traction & weight transfer to the rear tires.

You should be able to hit 1.7- 1.6 60 foot times on street radial tires if you practice and have the car dialed in.
Front sway bar hooked up too.

If your using Pro Tour 18-19 inch rims they are terrible for drag racing fast launches.
Unless you have drag radial tires in 18- 19 inch rim sizes.

15's & modern 17 's work best for drag racing in old school & modern muslcecars.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 19, 2017, 01:44:46 AM
The tires are Nitto 275/60r15 DR's. I'm running air shocks on the back right now so I don't eat the tires with the inner fenderwell lip. I need to cut it for clearance.
 (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/20170429_145614_zpsui1ip7sx.jpg?t=1495092972)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 19, 2017, 02:18:16 AM
Another problem I had was with the trans short shifting even in manual 1st & 2nd. I was told it had a shift kit in it but it didn't act like it. I put a strip kit in it yesterday. It's a turbo 400 I got off a friend.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 19, 2017, 06:09:51 AM
Another problem I had was with the trans short shifting even in manual 1st & 2nd. I was told it had a shift kit in it but it didn't act like it. I put a strip kit in it yesterday. It's a turbo 400 I got off a friend.

I don't know what your engine combo & drivetrain combo is exact other than its a stroker Pontiac 400 with a turbo 400 trans.
What rear diff gear ?

Mph is pretty typical with street friendly soft camshafts liked here on TAC.
Not all that bad but not great when compared to modern musclecars trapping 117-124 mph average.

To get 117-124 mph trap speeds takes Homework Race Math.
140 MPH Fast done by Dodge Demons is another story.
Need 840-1000 HP . 
Only practical way is Turbo Charge. Custom fabbing required.  Or Old School 8-71 Supercharger Can be done Normal aspirated Pontiac but you need $40,000 - $60,000 cash. Likely more yet $$$$.

There is a Governor & valvebody calibration issue in the Turbo 400 trans with your complaints.
Another topic how to set up & build it.


Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Black Sheep on May 19, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
I'm running air shocks on the back right now so I don't eat the tires with the inner fenderwell lip. I need to cut it for clearance.

Think I found the problem.

Let me guess, this is your car at launch:

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/CooperAuto/DSC_0403.jpg) (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/CooperAuto/media/DSC_0403.jpg.html)

When really, it should be doing this:

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/CooperAuto/DSC_0637.jpg) (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/CooperAuto/media/DSC_0637.jpg.html)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/CooperAuto/DSC_0638.jpg) (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/CooperAuto/media/DSC_0638.jpg.html)

You need to call Calvert Racing and get a set of their traction bars.  And get rid of the air shocks and get some adjustable ones.

Little girls squat when they pee.  Your car needs to stand tall  :lol:
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 20, 2017, 02:53:48 PM
lol! I'm not using my stock gas tank so i suppose I could fill it with concrete.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 20, 2017, 03:58:25 PM
Another problem I had was with the trans short shifting even in manual 1st & 2nd. I was told it had a shift kit in it but it didn't act like it. I put a strip kit in it yesterday. It's a turbo 400 I got off a friend.

I don't know what your engine combo & drivetrain combo is exact other than its a stroker Pontiac 400 with a turbo 400 trans.
What rear diff gear ?

Mph is pretty typical with street friendly soft camshafts liked here on TAC.
Not all that bad but not great when compared to modern musclecars trapping 117-124 mph average.

To get 117-124 mph trap speeds takes Homework Race Math.
140 MPH Fast done by Dodge Demons is another story.
Need 840-1000 HP . 
Only practical way is Turbo Charge. Custom fabbing required.  Or Old School 8-71 Supercharger Can be done Normal aspirated Pontiac but you need $40,000 - $60,000 cash. Likely more yet $$$$.

There is a Governor & valvebody calibration issue in the Turbo 400 trans with your complaints.
Another topic how to set up & build it.
The 461 has the new CNC E-Heads and the duration on the cam is up around 300. I just fired it back up with the Victor back on today and I tossed in a small nitrous kit for kicks. The rear gear is a 3.73 on a mini spool. Theres also a fuel cell in the trunk. I had a turbo 350 in the car but I fried it fairly quick. Heres a video of the car when I had it in Las Vegas.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3LN9hxytSE
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: silvert/a on May 20, 2017, 04:26:44 PM
Another way to look at it is if you both had the same reaction time you would have won. It still was a decent run.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 20, 2017, 07:00:26 PM
Another way to look at it is if you both had the same reaction time you would have won. It still was a decent run.

Thank man. That was my first time at that track so to be perfectly honest I was more interested in learning the routine.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 23, 2017, 08:54:57 PM
"...not great when compared to modern musclecars trapping 117-124 mph average.

To get 117-124 mph trap speeds takes Homework Race Math.
140 MPH Fast done by Dodge Demons is another story.
Need 840-1000 HP . 
Only practical way is Turbo Charge. Custom fabbing required.  Or Old School 8-71 Supercharger Can be done Normal aspirated Pontiac but you need $40,000 - $60,000 cash. Likely more yet $$$$..."


With all due respect, I think you've made your point about late model stuff, and all the performance that's available if you have enuff $$$$ to throw at it.

Hey, Pro Stockers can run mid 6's, and the Nitro cars can run in the 3's, @ over 300mph, in 1000ft.

But, SO WHAT ?

Most of the cars on this site are fairly low budget street driven cars. And, most, but not all, the 2nd gen Birds have stock block iron head engines, with one carb, using pump gas. No blowers, no turbos, no nitrous.

Most of these guys probably have less than $10k in their engine. Everybody knows Chevy power is cheaper than Pontiac power. But, many of these guys wanna stay with old school Pontiac power.

Nowadays, it is possible to build a "Pontiac" engine without using a single GM part. And, if you have enuff $$$$$ to throw at it, you can make a lot of streetable power, without any power adders. My local engine guy built a 400 block aluminum head stroker that made 755hp @ 5900 rpm, and over 700ft lbs of torque. Then he built an almost identical engine, and put it into a '69 street GTO. I attended a car show to which he drove the car. It was very streetable. 

What's my point with all this ? Plenty of power can be made with N/A Pontiac engines. So, these guys who have one and are asking questions about increasing their performance, probably don't wanna keep hearing about how much more power they could make with some other brand of engine, or some high dollar power adder deal.

Hey, I may be the only one here who feels this way. But, it's my opinion. No offense meant, at all. :)

 
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 23, 2017, 09:07:43 PM
If it wasn't for the diehards those parts wouldn't be available. I was around when you couldn't buy an aftermarket stroker crank and I've dropped really stupid money into cast iron heads.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 23, 2017, 09:39:42 PM
"...The 461 has the new CNC E-Heads and the duration on the cam is up around 300. I just fired it back up with the Victor back on today and I tossed in a small nitrous kit for kicks. The rear gear is a 3.73 on a mini spool..."


Drag strip ET is all about the combination of parts & the tune.

Your description of your cam, plus the use of a Victor intake, raises questions.

(1) What are the exact cam specs ? Or, just the cam brand & part number will do.

(2) How much does your converter stall ? Or, is it just a factory stock converter ?

(3) What size, brand, & model is your carb ?

(4) What type of ignition system do you have ? How much total advance ? At what rpm does it reach full mechanical advance ?

(5) Are you getting a lot of tire spin at the hit of the throttle ?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 23, 2017, 10:07:14 PM
This is just a word of warning--from experience.

If the axle tubes of your rear end have not been welded, or at least tacked to the center section, the center section could spin on the tubes, sending the pinion yoke up thru the floor.

We had it to happen, on a '71 Bird drag car, with a 455/TH400/stock 13" converter. The car had 13" slicks. So, if you manage to get good traction, your engine could easily twist the tubes loose.

After that happened, I always added 4 small tack welds, 90° apart, using a small arc welder, with 7018 rods. Some like to weld it completely around. But, if you do that, the rear needs to be in a jig, to prevent the tubes from being pulled out of line. I always made the 2nd tack 180° from the first, then let 'em both cool, before adding the other 2 tacks. Did several rear ends this way. Never had a problem, running low 12's & high 11's.

Or, if your tubes have not been tacked or welded, you can just take a chance & hope your factory tacks hold. There have been lots of guys get by without any problems. 

Also, a word about the TH400. As mentioned, the governor can be modified to change the shift points. My tranny guy, who is also a Pontiac guy, modified his governor to shift at his desired rpm, in his 9 sec Pontiac. He just put the trans in drive & let it shift automatically. It worked. He won a big bracket race at our local track that year. He tried to talk me into doing it too. But, I like to shift.  :-)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 23, 2017, 11:10:08 PM
The torque cnv. is a 10 inch with anti ballooning plate, it's around 3600 stall. Carbs a Holley 950 and the cam is the largest flat tappet comp cams makes with 1.65 rockers. I couldn't spring for a roller cam at the time. Ignition system is a K-mart H.E.I. and needs to be replaced. I'll have it at the track again this Friday and maybe I can save a little face.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 10:21:47 AM
Also, a word about the TH400. As mentioned, the governor can be modified to change the shift points. My tranny guy, who is also a Pontiac guy, modified his governor to shift at his desired rpm, in his 9 sec Pontiac. He just put the trans in drive & let it shift automatically. It worked. He won a big bracket race at our local track that year. He tried to talk me into doing it too. But, I like to shift.  :-)

If I alter the gov I'll have to manual shift every time I drive it. It sees way more street than track and there isn't much to play with at the grocery store.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 10:45:17 AM
I actually have to take the car an hour away if I want to do any street racing. It just doesn't happen where I live now. Also disappointing considering the amount of hot rods in Lake Havasu. They must have bumped their heads somewhere along the line. 
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 24, 2017, 12:57:46 PM
"...duration on the cam is up around 300...the cam is the largest flat tappet comp cams makes with 1.65 rockers..."

With this description, assuming it's a HFT, the best I can figure is that it's a 305 Magnum.???

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-51-241-4?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-comp-cams&gclid=CjwKEAjw3pTJBRChgZ3e7s_YhAkSJAASG9VrBfTZcqMa0gYa2bB4rMSErgf2WWl-Wd0fxndMNiWfhBoC-__w_wcB

If this is the cam you have, it has about .578 lift, with the 1.65 rockers. With 1.5 rockers, it has 253° duration @ .050 lift. So, with the 1.65 rockers it has even more. If this is indeed the cam you have, it is way too big for a street driven car. IMO

http://ronspontiacpage.com/reference-pages/comp.htm

Even in a 461, this cam will have very little power under 3000rpm. And it must have a nasty idle. I had a 292 magnum, which has only 244° @ .050. In my bracket 455 it wouldn't idle below 1000rpm. I would not attempt to run it in a street car.

Here's an important question you did not answer.

"...Are you getting a lot of tire spin at the hit of the throttle ? "

The reason this question is so important is because it lets us know if you have traction problems, or some sort of low end bog, at launch.

For example: If your converter is actually flashing to 3600rpm & blowing the tires off, at the hit of the throttle, then traction is the first problem which must be addressed, for a lower ET. Just being hooked to the track will probably get you down into the 12's.

BUT, if your tires are staying hooked up, without spinning, then the bog must be addressed.

"...If I alter the gov I'll have to manual shift every time I drive it. It sees way more street than track..."

The vacuum modulator will allow it to shift at low rpm, on the street. The governor only determines the shift rpm at WOT, when there is no vac to the vac modulator. The 1st TH400 we raced was a bone stock long tail, straight from the junkyard, with no vac line to the modulator. The car ran high 12's & won lots of races at area tracks, running E/SA. With the big cam you're running, the engine may not produce enuff vac to correctly operate the vac modulator. Probably not enuff for the power brakes to work correctly. ???

https://www.google.com/search?q=purpose+of+a+vacuum+modulator+on+a+th400+trans&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS682US682&oq=purpose+of+a+vacuum+modulator+on+a+th400+trans&aqs=chrome..69i57.18627j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Here's some info on modifying the governor for higher rpm shifts.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+midify+the+governor+in+a+th400+for+higher+rpm+shifts&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS682US682&oq=how+to+midify+the+governor+in+a+th400+for+higher+rpm+shifts&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64.27859j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 02:15:54 PM
The cams an xe294h and it has a pretty nasty idle. Lift is about 575. Off the line I'm getting spin wheel hop and to make matters worse I had a broken trans mount I didn't know about. Doing the gov mod makes way more sense now, I should have known this but it's been a while. I actually feel kinda stupid at this point.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 02:36:03 PM
When I take it to the track this Friday I'm filling the stock gas tank with sand to see if it helps with traction. It's only there to keep a somewhat stock appearance and I don't see what a little more weight to the ass end can hurt. I can't get the bottle filled at the moment so I'll still be on motor. If I can't hit mid 12s on DRs I'm really going to be pissed. This car should be in the 11s on motor. At minimum it's kicking 550hp.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 03:27:58 PM
With CNC ported Edelbrock heads it should trap no less than 115 mph.
124-128 would be even better.
Right now no better than stock high compression D-port heads.
Definate Power issues.
If your Street Racing your car must handle also.
Tough game.
New musclecar owners waiting to Race whether you want to or not.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 03:34:55 PM
Engine parameter Race math & Drag racing math will help solve.
I am at work yet.
I have ideas why.
My input not welcome reading above.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 24, 2017, 04:38:45 PM
"... Off the line I'm getting spin wheel hop..."

OK, I assume that means that your spinning so bad that the rear is actually hopping. That explains the slow 60ft times, & ET.

Therefore, the best way to lower your ET, is to get the power to the track. As mentioned, some CalTrac bars will help. The NHRA Stockers use these to run 10's & even quicker, on 9" slicks.

https://www.calvertracing.com/caltracs.html

But, for some cheaper help, slapper bars will work. Some guys today think these are old school junk. But, there have been plenty of cars run in the 10's with slappers. My '71 bird ran 9.85 on a 1000ft track, with slappers. I even made some homemade slappers, using square tubing. They worked just fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Lakewood-21607-Traction-Bar/dp/B000BW8TOG

http://www.jegs.com/i/Lakewood/620/21607/10002/-1

But, traction bars alone won't fix your traction problems. You MUST get some SOFT rubber on the track. The idea is to put down the biggest, softest contact patch you can, on the track. Since you are not limited to 9" wide tires, I'd get some at least 10.5" slicks, in the softest compound available. But, these are over $200 each, new. You may be able to find something cheaper, by asking around to your area racers. The ideal thing would be if you could borrow some, to make sure they'll provide all the traction you need. In order to use a wide tire, you may have to use short tires, to clear the fenderwell. The shorter tires will have a slightly smaller contact patch than a taller tire of the same width. It won't hurt anything to have the tire stickin out past the fender, for track use only. Me and lots of other low buck racers have been doin it for years.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/wheels-tires/part-type/tires/wheel-diameter/15-in/tire-type/competition/brand/hoosier-racing-tire?N=4294950865%2B4294898495%2B4294920795%2B4294897350%2B4294898345%2B400343&gnview=Horizontal&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/wheels-tires/part-type/tires/wheel-diameter/15-in/tire-type/competition/brand/mickey-thompson?N=4294950865%2B4294898495%2B4294920795%2B4294897350%2B4294898345%2B400206&gnview=Horizontal&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending


I always used adjustable spring shackles to raise the rear of the body for more tire clearance. But, you may not wanna do that. I also usually enlarged the wheelwell, for bigger slicks. But, you may not wanna do that either. If this is the case, short, wide, soft tires, is the alternative.

If you'll be using the soft tires on the street, M/T drag radials is what most of the quickest cars are running. If you go with these, you'll have to figure out what is the widest, tallest tires that will fit, and mount 'em on wheels with just the correct offset.

http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip/et-street-ss/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3451?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-mickey-thompson&gclid=CjwKEAjw3pTJBRChgZ3e7s_YhAkSJAASG9Vrn8kVjdChZtZ7jT8mhZRc33qjPFkdMl4A_veTPx_lQhoC3lvw_wcB

As others have mentioned, weight transfer helps with traction. There are all sorts of things that can be done to help free up the front end, so that it will rise quickly, at the hit of the throttle. If you have a sway bar hooked up, you can unhook it, so that it will not hold the front down.

https://www.google.com/search?q=leaf+spring+drag+race+tips&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS682US682&oq=leaf+spring+drag+racing+tips&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.15874j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?q=front+suspension+drag+race+tips&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS682US682&oq=front+suspension+drag+race+tips&aqs=chrome..69i57.17717j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8





Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 04:47:39 PM
You've been a big help oldskool, appreciate it. I screwed up buying the Nittos to save a buck. Having to cut to many corners is whats biting me in the ass.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 04:56:49 PM
The tires are Nitto 275/60r15 DR's. I'm running air shocks on the back right now so I don't eat the tires with the inner fenderwell lip. I need to cut it for clearance.
 (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/20170429_145614_zpsui1ip7sx.jpg?t=1495092972)
149509297He has Nitto Drag Radial tires.
Nittos & Mickey Thompson DR ET tires are the best Drag Radial tires made.
Been around since 2001 year.
Mickey Thompson Drag Radials in 2004 available.

I bought some of the 1st M.T. DR 275/60 R15.
28.0 Tall. On 10 inch wide Centerlines.
Still use on my TA.

They Hook up super hard.

Mickey Thompson Drag Radials guys have put down over 2000 Hp and ran 6s at 200 mph in 1/4.
P275 60 R15.

Its an NHRA NMCA RACING CLASS YET TODAY.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 05:00:15 PM
NITTOS Are a Favorite with many.
7s had on P275 60 R15 Nittos in 2003 by Ford 5.0 guys.

Other issues.
Hp yet .
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 06:55:22 PM
Well, no matter how I dice or slice it I'll just have to wait and see what the car does next time out. Sorry about all the editing.   :cool:
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: critter on May 24, 2017, 07:01:53 PM
That's a great baseline. Now the tuning starts. Play with the timing. Change your launch RPM. Tires and traction are VERY important. Carb jetting on the top end is another place to look for power.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 07:04:52 PM
Well, no matter how I dice or slice it I'll just have to wait and see what the car does next time out. Sorry about all the editing.   :cool:
Check the Fuel pressure.
A guage to read off of running down the 1/4 mile. A good fuel system layout will never drop more than 1/2 psi.
Watched your Vid.
Its way low on HP AND TORQUE.

What cfm head porting job sold to you ?
300 cfm ?
350 ?
400+ cfm ?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
Yea I'm glad I took it to the track, at least I have a starting point. The heads are out of the box CNC 72cc Performer RPMs. Summit. The pump is a Sniper 140 with 8-an to the regulator. Seems like it should be enough.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 07:35:45 PM
Yea I'm glad I took it to the track, at least I have a starting point. The heads are out of the box CNC 72cc Performer RPMs. Summit. The pump is a Sniper 140 with 8-an to the regulator. Seems like it should be enough.
Ok.
Working with a Low ball 500 Hp.
High 550-560 Hp On top of my mind thinking.
Run Hard Race Math engine numbers in a few hours. Busy fixing the Darn Washing machine here.

Yes it should be Faster your 1973 Formula Firebird.
Your doing only slightly better than my old 1987 Corvette can. Stock 13.2 @ 100-102 mph.
Added a few mods nothing exotic.
245 hp only & 345 ft/lbs torque.
Runs good still.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 07:36:43 PM
Check the Fuel pressure still.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: critter on May 24, 2017, 07:36:51 PM
I'd work on traction first. Get the 60 foot times down in the 1.8s or lower if you can. A good converter stalled properly for the cam can make a huge difference as well.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 07:50:06 PM
The only thing I can do right now to get my 60s down is add weight to the back of the car and maybe screw around with tire pressure. I haven't tried dropping them down yet. As far as the fuel pump goes it probably wouldn't hurt to do a can test at the regulator.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 09:07:59 PM
The only thing I can do right now to get my 60s down is add weight to the back of the car and maybe screw around with tire pressure. I haven't tried dropping them down yet. As far as the fuel pump goes it probably wouldn't hurt to do a can test at the regulator.
Nittos need the tire pressured lowered.
Try 22 psi.
Then 14 psi.
Adjust for best 60 foot times.

Never heard of Sand Ballast in the old gas tank.
The lighter you can make a 2nd gen Bird the better.
3000 lbs is good.
3200 lbs without you seated not too hard in a non AC car.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 24, 2017, 09:39:57 PM
The only thing I can do right now to get my 60s down is add weight to the back of the car and maybe screw around with tire pressure. I haven't tried dropping them down yet. As far as the fuel pump goes it probably wouldn't hurt to do a can test at the regulator.
Nittos need the tire pressured lowered.
Try 22 psi.
Then 14 psi.
Adjust for best 60 foot times.

Never heard of Sand Ballast in the old gas tank.
The lighter you can make a 2nd gen Bird the better.
3000 lbs is good.
3200 lbs without you seated not too hard in a non AC car.
In Mi I cut the top off my stock tank & filled it with lifting weights, it's to hard to get the tank back up there now days. That was my 69 which I kinda wish I would have kept right about now. I'll try those air pressures.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 24, 2017, 10:18:05 PM
The only thing I can do right now to get my 60s down is add weight to the back of the car and maybe screw around with tire pressure. I haven't tried dropping them down yet. As far as the fuel pump goes it probably wouldn't hurt to do a can test at the regulator.
Nittos need the tire pressured lowered.
Try 22 psi.
Then 14 psi.
Adjust for best 60 foot times.

Never heard of Sand Ballast in the old gas tank.
The lighter you can make a 2nd gen Bird the better.
3000 lbs is good.
3200 lbs without you seated not too hard in a non AC car.
In Mi I cut the top off my stock tank & filled it with lifting weights, it's to hard to get the tank back up there now days. That was my 69 which I kinda wish I would have kept right about now. I'll try those air pressures.

If the ass end feels loose too low of tire pressure likely.
Have to experiment with tire air pressure.

I Love My Mickey Thompson Drag Radial Tires on My Trans Am.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 06:10:05 AM
I ran the old bias ply street ets on my 69 and it hooked way better than this 73. That was on spray too.
2Nd Gen Early Birds & Trans Ams are Bad Azz for Drag Racing & Street Racing at night.

Where others can not control on the street because it will not  hookup & handle You Can and Blow right By & WIN.

Corvette could not match the handling till the 1984- 1987 C4 Corvettes were Released .

Street Racing is not always in a straight line.

Watch what they do in TEXAS ON YOU TUBE ON the EXPRESSWAYS. 2,000 + HP Drag Cars .
Drag Radial Tire equipped.

You should be able to hit 1.6-1.7 60 foot times no sweat.  Suspension issue, wrong tire pressure.
Something. 

I hit 1.6-1.7 60 foot times in My Trans Am on  with old  school Copper Hercules P255 60R 15's M+S Street Tires back in 1998.
My Car is a 4-speed.
I had 32 psi rear tire pressure set.
Front sway bar hooked up.
Just Cheap Delco Replacement Gas charged street shocks on all 4 corners.
Dumped the clutch hard at 3,000 rpm after slipping carefull to hookup clean.
Launched Like a Wicked Fick Beast.
3.90 Rear diff gears at the time.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 06:15:04 AM
Nitto Drag Radials are so good that they are BONE STOCK ISSUE On the New Dodge Demons 840 HP cars coming out and delivered this Fall 2017.
9.60 ET @ 140 Guaranteed.

A 1,000 + HP is in the works Version I believe. 8's.  Holy Crap.
Car Pulls 1 G on skid pads yet. Its a Road Race Car yet swapping tires.

Mopar Vs the world.

PONTIAC CAN WIN.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 09:00:28 AM
Yeah that new demon is something else. Idiot proof 9s. Who'd have ever thought.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 09:21:06 AM
I'll keep my expectations low on the bird and shoot for mid 12s but I think the car should be in the 11s on motor.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 10:20:34 AM
Yeah that new demon is something else. Idiot proof 9s. Who'd have ever thought.
yeah. Not crazy about them. They are coming.
Built to Street Race.
$86k without dealer markup An Old Street Racer from the 1970's told me I know here in Joliet Illinois.
He had a 1974 GTO with a Ram Air IV 40 He installed.
Got the engine for $500 only in 1977 he said.
Loves Street Racing Dwaynne.
Stops in work and talks Street Outlaws and updates.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 10:31:55 AM
Yeah that new demon is something else. Idiot proof 9s. Who'd have ever thought.
yeah. Not crazy about them. They are coming.
Built to Street Race.
$86k without dealer markup An Old Street Racer from the 1970's told me I know here in Joliet Illinois.
He had a 1974 GTO with a Ram Air IV 40 He installed.
Got the engine for $500 only in 1977 he said.
Loves Street Racing Dwaynne.
Stops in work and talks Street Outlaws and updates.
I picture most of them being tucked away in garages so in reality not much of a threat. If any of you guys are local I'll be at this tomorrow. http://www.lvms.com/documents/mayhem-052617.pdf
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 10:51:25 AM
No matter how slow it is it sounds and looks badass, extremely easy to instigate with this thing. They were sizing me up in Vegas before I made my first pass. It sounds that badass.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 12:46:14 PM
No matter how slow it is it sounds and looks badass, extremely easy to instigate with this thing. They were sizing me up in Vegas before I made my first pass. It sounds that badass.
When people see a 1970-1/2 - 1973 Firebird, Firebird Espirit, Formula Firebird & Firebird Trans Am They are Awe shocked. Non Poncho Pontiac People.
They look like nothing else.
Maserati styling with Pontiac American Muscle.
Screams RACECAR..
They Automatically want To Street Race You..
Its Unavoidable.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 01:04:07 PM
No matter how slow it is it sounds and looks badass, extremely easy to instigate with this thing. They were sizing me up in Vegas before I made my first pass. It sounds that badass.
When people see a 1970-1/2 - 1973 Firebird, Firebird Espirit, Formula Firebird & Firebird Trans Am They are Awe shocked. Non Poncho Pontiac People.
They look like nothing else.
Maserati styling with Pontiac American Muscle.
Screams RACECAR..
They Automatically want To Street Race You..
Its Unavoidable.
They really do and it kinda sucks when you know your car still needs work, they think you're pussing out when in reality you're just telling them like it is.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 01:07:43 PM
I love to street race & I've been doing it since I was a little kid. My license was suspended before I ever had one. come back to court when you're 18 and we'll talk about it.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 01:23:54 PM
Sht man I was told I couldn't get my bottle filled before I even tried..... is that really how you want to beat me or do you want a fair fight?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
I love to street race & I've been doing it since I was a little kid. My license was suspended before I ever had one. come back to court when you're 18 and we'll talk about it.
My Dad is to Blame. It was 1974 and I recall driving to a Pontiac Dealership around Aurora Illinois with my little brother and Mom.
We were in a 1971 Pontiac Lemans.
Dad wanted a Trans Am or a Corvette.
Family could not do it.
So he bought a New 1974 Pontia Grand Prix with a 350 4-bbl Automatic. J model I recall.
He left doing a Burnout with us in the new GP.
Drove home 60 miles doing 90-100.
Mom was yellng. My Dad Laughed.
My Brother & Me thought it was Awesome Fun.
He was always Racing around. 100 mph made him Happy.
His favorite car was his 1959 Catalina 389 4-bbl 2dr.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 01:27:38 PM
Sht man I was told I couldn't get my bottle filled before I even tried..... is that really how you want to beat me or do you want a fair fight?
I was too tired to run race math numbers last night. I will after work today.
Give you a better idea what your Formula Firebird should be doing in theory.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 03:43:53 PM
I love to street race & I've been doing it since I was a little kid. My license was suspended before I ever had one. come back to court when you're 18 and we'll talk about it.
My Dad is to Blame. It was 1974 and I recall driving to a Pontiac Dealership around Aurora Illinois with my little brother and Mom.
We were in a 1971 Pontiac Lemans.
Dad wanted a Trans Am or a Corvette.
Family could not do it.
So he bought a New 1974 Pontia Grand Prix with a 350 4-bbl Automatic. J model I recall.
He left doing a Burnout with us in the new GP.
Drove home 60 miles doing 90-100.
Mom was yellng. My Dad Laughed.
My Brother & Me thought it was Awesome Fun.
He was always Racing around. 100 mph made him Happy.
His favorite car was his 1959 Catalina 389 4-bbl 2dr.
I got popped one time and after he handed me a fist full of tickets he pointed at the baby in the back seat and said he's the only reason I'm not taking your car.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 04:14:34 PM
P.S. Sand isn't going to work so water it is. A gallon weighs about 8 pounds so times that by ruffly 15 and we're looking at about 120. Don't think that's enough but it's better than nothing.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 05:11:34 PM
The sound on my cell phone sucks but here's a better idea of what I've got cooking under the hood. This was today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CItLo4MqO3E
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 25, 2017, 06:33:20 PM
If you are running that small air cleaner, on the track, it is slowing you down some. The engine can not suck enuff air thru a small air cleaner.

Most guys don't run any air cleaner at the track. I never could bring myself to do it. Don't want my engine suckin dust and whatever into it. My last two 455 bracket engines used a 14" x 5" K&N assembly. You probably don't have enuff hood clearance for one that tall. But, I'd run the biggest, tallest cleaner that can be made to fit. Also need the high-flow type filter. A regular paper type filter will not flow near as much air as the high-flow type, under race conditions.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+type+of+car+air+cleaner+filter+flows+the+most+air&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS682US682&oq=what+type+of+car+air+cleaner+filter+flows+the+most+air&aqs=chrome..69i57.58195j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

http://www.r2cperformance.com/drag-racing-air-filter.aspx
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 07:54:31 PM
If you are running that small air cleaner, on the track, it is slowing you down some. The engine can not suck enuff air thru a small air cleaner.

Most guys don't run any air cleaner at the track. I never could bring myself to do it. Don't want my engine suckin dust and whatever into it. My last two 455 bracket engines used a 14" x 5" K&N assembly. You probably don't have enuff hood clearance for one that tall. But, I'd run the biggest, tallest cleaner that can be made to fit. Also need the high-flow type filter. A regular paper type filter will not flow near as much air as the high-flow type, under race conditions.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+type+of+car+air+cleaner+filter+flows+the+most+air&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS682US682&oq=what+type+of+car+air+cleaner+filter+flows+the+most+air&aqs=chrome..69i57.58195j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

http://www.r2cperformance.com/drag-racing-air-filter.aspx
Yeah I think I'll switch over to a 14. The carb sticks out above the hood now so clearance isn't an issue. I found a regular flat hood and cut a hole.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 09:03:24 PM
Those Plastic Fram Fuel Filters are restrictive to a Fuel Thirsty Race Cammed Stroker 461, 455-462-468 , & 480 inch Pontiac Race engines.
They are made for our Riding Lawnmowers & Farm tractors.

They SUCK. Not making that up. Ditch them please.


Need a Good Fuel Log- Lines for your Holley Carb. Looks like an older HP Racing Holley 4150.
BLP Bo Laws makes the Very Best Fuel Log today.
Or Buy an AED Racing Fuel Line kit.
AED Buys from BLP Bo Laws and custom tailors to Racers at Budget friendly prices.

Old Skool is Right.
Great advice.
14 inch air cleaners required or even 16 inch if room permits, Usually a Holley Dominator 4500 series air cleaner size.

Look over your Combo & run numbers now. Get back to you.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
Those Plastic Fram Fuel Filters are restrictive to a Fuel Thirsty Race Cammed Stroker 461, 455-462-468 , & 480 inch Pontiac Race engines.
They are made for our Riding Lawnmowers & Farm tractors.

They SUCK. Not making that up. Ditch them please.


Need a Good Fuel Log- Lines for your Holley Carb. Looks like an older HP Racing Holley 4150.
BLP Bo Laws makes the Very Best Fuel Log today.
Or Buy an AED Racing Fuel Line kit.
AED Buys from BLP Bo Laws and custom tailors to Racers at Budget friendly prices.

Old Skool is Right.
Great advice.
14 inch air cleaners required or even 16 inch if room permits, Usually a Holley Dominator 4500 series air cleaner size.

Look over your Combo & run numbers now. Get back to you.
Yeah those Frams are a little on the scary side aren't they....lol I picked up a couple steel filters today just so I don't burn the car down if one pops.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 09:20:53 PM
I need to Verify what Competition Cams You have. Looking online now .
I recognize the Raspy High Valve Overlap Solid Flat tappet CC Profile by the engine exhaust and the way the engine shakes on the rubber motor mounts at idle and the Mechanical Sound.
I raced at the track & streets in past with a CC P290 B6 Hi Tech Solid Flat tappet cam before switching to Isky cams.
If its a Hi Tech CC Grind its an excellent True Drag Race Cam.

IT ALSO SUCKS GASOLINE FUEL WOT LIKE A NAVY BOAT FULL OF SAILORS & US MARINES DRINKING BEER.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 09:39:19 PM
I need to Verify what Competition Cams You have. Looking online now .
I recognize the Raspy High Valve Overlap Solid Flat tappet CC Profile by the engine exhaust and the way the engine shakes on the rubber motor mounts at idle and the Mechanical Sound.
I raced at the track & streets in past with a CC P290 B6 Hi Tech Solid Flat tappet cam before switching to Isky cams.
If its a Hi Tech CC Grind its an excellent True Drag Race Cam.

IT ALSO SUCKS GASOLINE FUEL WOT LIKE A NAVY BOAT FULL OF SAILORS & US MARINES DRINKING BEER.
It's an XE-294-H with 1.65s The sound of the engine is pretty distorted in that video because my cell phone can't handle it. I'm running straight thru 3.5 race mufflers directly off the hedders so it's a little on the loud side. I'm thinking about mixing in some race fuel next time I go to the track. I can get away with 92 octane but it's got some decent compression.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 09:42:03 PM
Is it a Magnum Series Competition Cams Solid Flat tappet grind in your 461 ?

There is only 1 Hi Tech CC Solid left today ( used to be 3-4 profiles back in the day I recall in Pontiac V8 Hi Tech solid flat tappet listings, I have a few vintage 1980's -1990's Competetion cams catalogs put away).

Its the Solid I used in the past 290 B6.
290/304.  255 & 266 @.050" . 540" lift with 1.5 rockers.
85 degrees overlap.
actually has more overlap than factory RAIV Cam because Pontiac checked rated all thier cams at .007" lift. 87 degrees overlap rated is less when checked at .050" lift.

Its an old NHRA Super Stocker Race camshaft 290B6.
455 will rev to 7000-7500 with Titanium valve spring retainers. My RAIV did many times.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 09:48:06 PM
I need to Verify what Competition Cams You have. Looking online now .
I recognize the Raspy High Valve Overlap Solid Flat tappet CC Profile by the engine exhaust and the way the engine shakes on the rubber motor mounts at idle and the Mechanical Sound.
I raced at the track & streets in past with a CC P290 B6 Hi Tech Solid Flat tappet cam before switching to Isky cams.
If its a Hi Tech CC Grind its an excellent True Drag Race Cam.

IT ALSO SUCKS GASOLINE FUEL WOT LIKE A NAVY BOAT FULL OF SAILORS & US MARINES DRINKING BEER.
It's an XE-294-H with 1.65s The sound of the engine is pretty distorted in that video because my cell phone can't handle it. I'm running straight thru 3.5 race mufflers directly off the hedders so it's a little on the loud side. I'm thinking about mixing in some race fuel next time I go to the track. I can get away with 92 octane but it's got some decent compression.

Yes.
The Online compression ratio Dynamic calculators are totally inaccurate when using a True Drag Race Cam.
Volumetric efficiency is off the wall above when compared to any street profile including hydraulic roller.
Effective compression ratio is what matters, impossible to predict, have to measure actual airflow into the engine on a fixed engine Dyno with an air bell with flow meter.

Tested cranking compression with a good compression gauge like Snap On is only way to know what you have with a true drag race cam.

Got your Cam.
Going to work.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 09:52:08 PM
I need to Verify what Competition Cams You have. Looking online now .
I recognize the Raspy High Valve Overlap Solid Flat tappet CC Profile by the engine exhaust and the way the engine shakes on the rubber motor mounts at idle and the Mechanical Sound.
I raced at the track & streets in past with a CC P290 B6 Hi Tech Solid Flat tappet cam before switching to Isky cams.
If its a Hi Tech CC Grind its an excellent True Drag Race Cam.

IT ALSO SUCKS GASOLINE FUEL WOT LIKE A NAVY BOAT FULL OF SAILORS & US MARINES DRINKING BEER.
It's an XE-294-H with 1.65s The sound of the engine is pretty distorted in that video because my cell phone can't handle it. I'm running straight thru 3.5 race mufflers directly off the hedders so it's a little on the loud side. I'm thinking about mixing in some race fuel next time I go to the track. I can get away with 92 octane but it's got some decent compression.

Yes.
The Online compression ratio Dynamic calculators are totally inaccurate when using a True Drag Race Cam.
Volumetric efficiency is off the wall above when compared to any street profile including hydraulic roller.
Effective compression ratio is what matters, impossible to predict, have to measure actual airflow into the engine on a fixed engine Dyno with an air bell with flow meter.

Tested cranking compression with a good compression gauge like Snap On is only way to know what you have with a true drag race cam.

Got your Cam.
Going to work.
I've got a snap-on. Five pulses of the needle I'm up around 195 PSI
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 10:07:02 PM
I need to Verify what Competition Cams You have. Looking online now .
I recognize the Raspy High Valve Overlap Solid Flat tappet CC Profile by the engine exhaust and the way the engine shakes on the rubber motor mounts at idle and the Mechanical Sound.
I raced at the track & streets in past with a CC P290 B6 Hi Tech Solid Flat tappet cam before switching to Isky cams.
If its a Hi Tech CC Grind its an excellent True Drag Race Cam.

IT ALSO SUCKS GASOLINE FUEL WOT LIKE A NAVY BOAT FULL OF SAILORS & US MARINES DRINKING BEER.
It's an XE-294-H with 1.65s The sound of the engine is pretty distorted in that video because my cell phone can't handle it. I'm running straight thru 3.5 race mufflers directly off the hedders so it's a little on the loud side. I'm thinking about mixing in some race fuel next time I go to the track. I can get away with 92 octane but it's got some decent compression.

Yes.
The Online compression ratio Dynamic calculators are totally inaccurate when using a True Drag Race Cam.
Volumetric efficiency is off the wall above when compared to any street profile including hydraulic roller.
Effective compression ratio is what matters, impossible to predict, have to measure actual airflow into the engine on a fixed engine Dyno with an air bell with flow meter.

Tested cranking compression with a good compression gauge like Snap On is only way to know what you have with a true drag race cam.

Got your Cam.
Going to work.
I've got a snap-on. Five pulses of the needle I'm up around 195 PSI

OK.  Good for Pump Gas 91-93 with Aluminum heads.

I measured 290-310 psi with 290B6. Only ran on 110 Motor octane.
Hell of a Midrange punch & Revved high.
Terrified the Chevy Guys.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 10:09:54 PM
Its NO GIRLY CAM YOU HAVE.    8-)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 10:17:01 PM
Its NO GIRLY CAM YOU HAVE.    8-)
Lol! Butler recommended it. I think he hit it out of the park for a cheap cam.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 10:32:20 PM
Its NO GIRLY CAM YOU HAVE.    8-)
Lol! Butler recommended it. I think he hit it out of the park for a cheap cam.

I have nothing but Praise for the Butler Family.

Working on Mean airflow numbers for your CNC E heads
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 10:45:09 PM
What # E - CNC Heads ? 

If you don't recall , what chamber size 72 or 87 cc ?

Round port exhaust RAIV style ?
D- port ?

Recall intake runner size ?
215's or 190's ?

Airflow specs vary pretty wide.

Lower flow E-heads made for guys street driving most of the time.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 10:46:28 PM
Holley carb CFM size needed also.
750 cfm, 800, 850, 930, 950, 1085 cfm ?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
Found it .
286 / 200
Intake / Exhaust cfm flow @ 28 inches water depression.
Choosing 72 cc chambers tonight.
#61515's E CNC .

DD2000 with 750 - 1085 cfm carbs
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 11:14:06 PM
Found it .
286 / 200
Intake / Exhaust cfm flow @ 28 inches water depression.
Choosing 72 cc chambers tonight.
#61515's E CNC .

DD2000 with 750 - 1085 cfm carbs
These new combustion chambers work very well with flat tops. If I was running domed pistons I probably would have went with the older RPMs.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 11:34:26 PM
I am surprised with the Dynomotion results.
I expected more Torque & Hp.
Typing from my phone.
Internet is down.
Post Results tables and graphs in the morning.
800 cfm carb size is ideal.
Dual plane intake swap instead of single plane race now makes torque production WORSE.

Fell short of 500 Hp.
492 hp @6,000 rpm.
Peak torque is 475 ft/lbs @ 5,000 rpm.

Lobe separation is all wrong for 4.21 -4.25 inch stroke cranks of 455 & 461 stroker 400.

Its bleeding off too much valuable cylinder cranking compression.
Its designed to make sure its pee water pump gas safe on 91-93 octane gas.
My own Synopsis.

108-106 Lobe seperation & Intake centerline and more will net 600+ Hp. 550 ft/lbs.
I know it. My experience and know how.
Going to bed.

Brian R.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 11:38:41 PM
Torque band is just too weak now for ultra hard launches we want.
Only way otherwise is 4.10, 4.30 , 4.56 rear diff gears.
Not desired in this situation.
Camshaft profile issue.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 11:40:40 PM
Sht. Garry.

Talk in morning.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 25, 2017, 11:42:22 PM
Well, I gave it my best shot guys. If it sucks it sucks.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 25, 2017, 11:47:57 PM
Well, I gave it my best shot guys. If it sucks it sucks.
I will post results soon in morning.
Even I can not predict results right on with seemingly race hot cam gross numbers.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 05:47:05 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/Pontiac%20461_zpsnef5ximy.png)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/Pontiac%20461%201_zpsfn158kyp.png)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/Pontiac%20461%203_zpsrywlcpkz.png)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/Pontiac%20461%204_zpsu1cp3mmv.png)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 05:53:43 AM
The EX 294H Competition Cams is a decent street cam in a sense. It shakes and rattles you as we like if your from the 1970's & 1980's as we are.

But is sucks for drag racing. 

Need a different cam profile.
You will BLOW RIGHT PAST THOSE DODGE MOPARS EXCEPT FOR DEMONS 9.60-9.40'S, 

I have a few profiles in mind.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 08:18:18 AM
It's one of those I suppose it could be worse things. My 03 Cobra was S/C and it only kicked 400.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 08:47:39 AM
The EX 294H Competition Cams is a decent street cam in a sense. It shakes and rattles you as we like if your from the 1970's & 1980's as we are.

But is sucks for drag racing. 

Need a different cam profile.
You will BLOW RIGHT PAST THOSE DODGE MOPARS EXCEPT FOR DEMONS 9.60-9.40'S, 

I have a few profiles in mind.
All I can really do right now to pick the numbers up is spray it. The car needs to much other work to keep screwing around with the engine. Rob Paul to pay Peter scenario.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 10:09:41 AM
The EX 294H Competition Cams is a decent street cam in a sense. It shakes and rattles you as we like if your from the 1970's & 1980's as we are.

But is sucks for drag racing. 

Need a different cam profile.
You will BLOW RIGHT PAST THOSE DODGE MOPARS EXCEPT FOR DEMONS 9.60-9.40'S, 

I have a few profiles in mind.
All I can really do right now to pick the numbers up is spray it. The car needs to much other work to keep screwing around with the engine. Rob Paul to pay Peter scenario.
Be sure to pull total timing back for a 125 hp shot.And use 110-114 motor octane race gas & pump gas mix. 50/50 % cut safe.
Give it hell. I will work on other cams later after work for you.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 10:13:47 AM
If get a New Converter high stall buy a Heavy Duty Sprag Model.
Billet nose pump snout and anti ballon plates recommended. Its affordable with Turbo 400.
Same converter used in T350.
HUGHES BRAND I RECOMMEND.
$500.
Any other trans overdive cost $900-2,000 cash same features and still much weaker and blow up likely .
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 10:16:19 AM
At least a Heavy duty sprag..Hughes has special street and race converters just for Pontiac V8.
I bought one for my 1963 Pontiac Grand Prix TH400.
Less than $400.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 11:10:04 AM
The closest I'm going to get to a Hughes converter right now is to take my car to Tuscon and I think thats about 6 hours away. While I respect what the guys doing I can't drive that far just to screw around with my car.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 11:31:10 AM
I'm actually supposed to be headed to Las Vegas right now which is quite a bit closer to me and I decided to scrap that plan, too. I wasn't feeling that great yesterday and I didn't get some work done on my car that I needed to finish up.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 11:48:52 AM
The closest I'm going to get to a Hughes converter right now is to take my car to Tuscon and I think thats about 6 hours away. While I respect what the guys doing I can't drive that far just to screw around with my car.
The overall chassis and drivetrain layout from Pontiac is Very Reliable. Especially in 2nd Gen Birds. Many hidden Engineering improvements.
Driving your car to the track and back home after racing 10-50 passes in 1 day sunrise to sunset is The Ultimate Pontiac Pride.
Most can not do it. Sht breaks on them.
I never trailered my TA to the track. Never had a Trailor and fullsize pickup prior..
Drove it and raced it.
I planned ahead. Full tank of 110 race gas. Carrried 10-15 extra gallons in gas cans in the the trunk.
Drove 70 - 200 miles to tracks. Raced. Drove home.
A few times drove home on hurt smoked clutch discs.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 12:13:39 PM
The closest I'm going to get to a Hughes converter right now is to take my car to Tuscon and I think thats about 6 hours away. While I respect what the guys doing I can't drive that far just to screw around with my car.
The overall chassis and drivetrain layout from Pontiac is Very Reliable. Especially in 2nd Gen Birds. Many hidden Engineering improvements.
Driving your car to the track and back home after racing 10-50 passes in 1 day sunrise to sunset is The Ultimate Pontiac Pride.
Most can not do it. Sht breaks on them.
I never trailered my TA to the track. Never had a Trailor and fullsize pickup prior..
Drove it and raced it.
I planned ahead. Full tank of 110 race gas. Carrried 10-15 extra gallons in gas cans in the the trunk.
Drove 70 - 200 miles to tracks. Raced. Drove home.
A few times drove home on hurt smoked clutch discs.
I could drive my car back to Mi if I wanted to but I've got a trailer sitting here. The only point I'd be proving if I broke down is how stupid I was for not using my trailer.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 12:24:19 PM
The last time I was in phoenix a guy bounced his Mustang off the wall. You need to factor in little things like this happening. Forget the pride crap people are trying to blow up your rear and use common sense if you can.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 12:44:24 PM
Yeah I have a Fullsize 18 foot car trailer now too.
2 fullsize GMC & Chevy Tahoe K1500 Suburban and Tahoes.
Knocked the 4L60E out of my Tahoe Monday.
Sungear shell broke in the 4L60E.
Been driving my Old Vette all week. 800 miles on it racked up more by Saturday night.
Back tires were bald. Killed the Goodyear 315 Eagles.
Bought new Mickey Thompson Super Comps Streets. 315/35 17. $100 each at Discount tire Joliet.
Great deal. New. Last guy never picked up.
Like OK ????
Found another Trans for my Tahoe.
Pick it up Saturday.
Got a Vette D44 IRS Differential  To build for a guy in Oklahoma.
Known for my Dana 44 diff builds in Vette world.
Stuff to get done around the Farm and house.
Want to Race my TA again.
Demons Head up on Streets at night.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 12:45:52 PM
Keep Plugging away Garry.
Pontiac Guys never Quit.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 12:55:16 PM
Keep Plugging away Garry.
Pontiac Guys never Quit.
This Nitrous thing is aggravating me. When I put this motor together spray was always in the plan. It was never intended to be a kill all on motor car.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 01:54:11 PM
Keep Plugging away Garry.
Pontiac Guys never Quit.
This Nitrous thing is aggravating me. When I put this motor together spray was always in the plan. It was never intended to be a kill all on motor car.
The Beast '73 Formula Firebird is Chained down.
Good input and tips from everyone in this thread.

i never figured the camshaft was an issue also.
Actual IVO IVC EVO EVC as read on your cam card that I found last night tells all.
Dynomotion 2000 engine simulator proved it.

Cam may respond well to a small Nitrous hit.
Have to try it.
110 Lobe centerline a bit tight in theory , 114-118 desired typical .
Modern big boost LCA up to 122-124.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 02:41:38 PM
It's getting the bottle filled thats the problem. They're telling me there's a nitrous shortage out here yet I know damned well guys are running it at the track. Those charts are cool though and thanks for taking the time. It looks like I should shifting around 6500.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 04:08:05 PM
It's getting the bottle filled thats the problem. They're telling me there's a nitrous shortage out here yet I know damned well guys are running it at the track. Those charts are cool though and thanks for taking the time. It looks like I should shifting around 6500.
Most everyone here on Southside of Chicago gets thier Nitrous Bottles filled at Winners Circle Speed shop. They have a nice website. Match Summits prices online. Been goimg there since 1988 or so.
Haven't stopped in a few months.
Maybe a Nitrous oxide shortage is going on.
Street Outlaws has eveyone thinking RACE.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 10:03:06 PM
First pass tonight was worse, totally blew the tires off on motor. ...lmao!
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 26, 2017, 10:55:46 PM
You guys aren't going to believe this but I snapped my axle on the second pass....... they just got me off the track. Its going to be a long night, lol
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 26, 2017, 11:08:48 PM
You guys aren't going to believe this but I snapped my axle on the second pass....... they just got me off the track. Its going to be a long night, lol
I know I am going to take a alot of heat for this but The 12 bolt and 10 bolt rear diffs are not a very good choice today for Drag Racing.
Many better options available.
Gotta spend $ money either way. Fix it..Or build better with a True Drag Racer worthy Differential.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 12:43:44 PM
To make sure it hooked on the second pass I used unholy water straight out of Las Vegas.....GYSOT

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/axle%20shaft%202_zpspk7az4rs.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/axle%20shaft%201_zpsgjlej3dz.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 27, 2017, 12:48:25 PM
"...The 12 bolt and 10 bolt rear diffs are not a very good choice today for Drag Racing..."

Actually, there are LOTS of 10 sec & even 9 sec drag only cars running a 12-bolt. But they are not your typical stock 12-bolt, out of a 50 year old car. There are now aftermarket housings/axles/posi units which will make a 12-bolt plenty strong for a low 10 sec street/strip car.

Yes, an 8.5" 10-bolt and a 12-bolt can be upgraded with better parts. BUT, since the OP obviously plans to do some pretty serious drag racing, he may as well go with something bulletproof.

Some prefer a 9" Ford, because of the removable chunk. Hey, you could even set up 2 chunks--1 with a spool & strip gears--& 1 with a posi & street gears. There are also more gear ratios available for the 9". The 9" has lots of advantages.

But, if you prefer to use the same chunk for both street & strip, then a Dana 60 might be better. It transmits more of the engine's power to the wheels. Or, in other words it's more efficient. And, with good parts, you won't break it. That's the good news. The bad news is that a new, aftermarket, COMPLETE Dana 60 is well over $3000. :shock:

http://www.moserengineering.com/complete-rear-end-assemblies/moser-60-musclepak-muscle-pak-pack-dana.html

But, complete high end 12-bolts & 9" Fords are also in the $3000 & up range, if you buy 'em with aftermarket housings, good posi units & disc brake kits.

http://www.moserengineering.com/complete-rear-end-assemblies/9-muscle-pak.html

http://www.moserengineering.com/complete-rear-end-assemblies/12-bolt-musclepak.html

You can buy 'em without brakes, some without mounting brackets, and with a spool, for closer to $2000. But, by the time you add a good quality posi unit, disc brakes, brackets, & shipping, your back up near $3000.

http://chassisengineering.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=38_275&product_id=526

Here's Strange D-60, 9", & 12-bolt--less brakes.

http://www.strangeengineering.net/product/s60-rear-end-trac-lock-35-s-t-axles-leaf-spring-mounts.html/

http://www.strangeengineering.net/product/complete-ford-9-rear-end-assembly-nb.html/

http://www.strangeengineering.net/product/12-blt-street-rear-end-assm-std-posi-leaf-spring-mounts-no-brakes.html/

Some choose to buy a housing/axle package, then rig up a cheap chunk, brakes, brackets, themselves.

http://www.quickperformance.com/QP-GM-1970-1981-F-Body-9-Inch-Housing-Axle-Package_p_4017.html
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 27, 2017, 02:05:44 PM
If you can't come up with enuff $$$$ for a complete new rear end, and your rear end is still usable, the cheapest quick fix is to just replace your stock axles with good C-clip axles, such as the Moser brand.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a102803/overview/year/1973/make/pontiac/model/firebird
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
You can have 10 & 12 bolts Oldschool I dont trust them.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 02:40:14 PM
If you were not so far away Garry I would show you the Dana 60 I have. 4.10 Posi Lock with bolt in 31-spline axles.
Pulled from a 1963 Ford F100 Half ton truck.
Optional HD rear.
Nice and narrow. 61.00 inch wide rear track width.
I paid $425 for it.
Bought it for a guy in Florida for his Vette.
 He Ran out of funds.
Sitting on it since 2011.

I am Going racing again with a 1957-58 Pontiac 9.3.
4.30 gears. Full Race spool.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 03:49:24 PM
If you were not so far away Garry I would show you the Dana 60 I have. 4.10 Posi Lock with bolt in 31-spline axles.
Pulled from a 1963 Ford F100 Half ton truck.
Optional HD rear.
Nice and narrow. 61.00 inch wide rear track width.
I paid $425 for it.
Bought it for a guy in Florida for his Vette.
 He Ran out of funds.
Sitting on it since 2011.

I am Going racing again with a 1957-58 Pontiac 9.3.
4.30 gears. Full Race spool.
That's exactly why I've been going to the track lately. It's getting me around the kind of people I need to be around.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 04:04:09 PM
I'd show you guys a picture of the quarter panel but the battle scars aren't really that bad. The car needed paint either way about. The tire ricocheted between the wall & my car a few times. Had the wall not been there it wouldn't have even scratched my car, clean break & clean exit.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 04:39:20 PM
If you were not so far away Garry I would show you the Dana 60 I have. 4.10 Posi Lock with bolt in 31-spline axles.
Pulled from a 1963 Ford F100 Half ton truck.
Optional HD rear.
Nice and narrow. 61.00 inch wide rear track width.
I paid $425 for it.
Bought it for a guy in Florida for his Vette.
 He Ran out of funds.
Sitting on it since 2011.

I am Going racing again with a 1957-58 Pontiac 9.3.
4.30 gears. Full Race spool.
That's exactly why I've been going to the track lately. It's getting me around the kind of people I need to be around.
You may run into somebody close by with a Dana 60 .
The Mopar Muslecars made from 1965-1971 with the Hemi 426 Dual Quad 4-bbl engines and 4-speed Hemi version 883 New Process 4- speeds had 3.54 or 4.10 Dana 60 rears stock. And the 440 Wedge 6-pack 3-2 barrel engines with 4-speeds had the Dana 60 stock also.
Most had 30-31 spline axles stock.
1970-71 Hemi 'Cuda 4-speed also had Dana 60 stock but with 35-spline axles. Serious Heavy Duty.
Pretty close to factory Pontiac Firebird and Trans Am rear track widths of 60.5 inches.
Most Mopar Muscle era Dana 60 rears check out at 61.0-61.5 inches axle flange to axle flange track width.
Close enough to use as is a 2nd gen F body Bird.

1957-1958 Fullsize Pontiacs had a Pontiac 9.3 built with 60-1/2 inch track width. Exact as TA & Formula Firebirds we have. They are hard to find. Found them searching ovwr 20 years. Have 1957 & 1958 .
Many other later 1959-64 Pontiac & Olds 9.3 rears.

Name of the game Drag Racing with no sponsors is to be resourcefull.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 04:46:12 PM
The Best Factory Ford 9 inch rears were used in the the 1967 - 1970 Hi Po Drag race and Road Race SCCA Stangs.
427 High riser Tunnel Port.
428 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet.
Boss 429.
Boss 302.
They had factory Nodular drop out 3rd member Hogs head. Big Bore sidebearings. 3.0625" diameter.
Heavy duty axle shafts with oversized ball bearing on axleshafts.

Internet search will help educate you what to look for.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 04:48:54 PM
Also drag racing its hard to get sponsorship.
9-seconds bores sponsors.
They want 6 & 7 second ET drag cars now to backup.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 05:02:09 PM
Also drag racing its hard to get sponsorship.
9-seconds bores sponsors.
They want 6 & 7 second ET drag cars now to backup.

When I do the Grudge thing it puts me around people that can help with that. As far as the axle goes it's tapered and it snapped at the end of it's taper. I'll probably just throw a better set of axles in it and eventually get some c-clip eliminators. I can't spend all that cash at once right now to do it right but I don't want to snap another.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 05:06:46 PM
I'd show you guys a picture of the quarter panel but the battle scars aren't really that bad. The car needed paint either way about. The tire ricocheted between the wall & my car a few times. Had the wall not been there it wouldn't have even scratched my car, clean break & clean exit.
I like the Color of your 1973 Formula Firebird.
Screams Fast.

Sucks.
Your Ok.
Car will live too.

The axle tubes themselves in 10 & 12 are weak yet.
Move around on hard launches.
Like a paperclip bending..makes it hard to put power down.
Thin tubing used.
Have to remember The Trans Am broke new ground in 1969. Fast in corners and 1/4.
No car did both prior.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 05:18:10 PM
I'd show you guys a picture of the quarter panel but the battle scars aren't really that bad. The car needed paint either way about. The tire ricocheted between the wall & my car a few times. Had the wall not been there it wouldn't have even scratched my car, clean break & clean exit.
I like the Color of your 1973 Formula Firebird.
Screams Fast.

Sucks.
Your Ok.
Car will live too.

The axle tubes themselves in 10 & 12 are weak yet.
Move around on hard launches.
Like a paperclip bending..makes it hard to put power down.
Thin tubing used.
Have to remember The Trans Am broke new ground in 1969. Fast in corners and 1/4.
No car did both prior.
Good point on the tubes but it's like do you want to race or sit around picking your nose? Can't let this "stuff" bring you down or you're defeated before you even tried.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 05:32:15 PM
Also drag racing its hard to get sponsorship.
9-seconds bores sponsors.
They want 6 & 7 second ET drag cars now to backup.

When I do the Grudge thing it puts me around people that can help with that. As far as the axle goes it's tapered and it snapped at the end of it's taper. I'll probably just throw a better set of axles in it and eventually get some c-clip eliminators. I can't spend all that cash at once right now to do it right but I don't want to snap another.
The C-clip axles usually break right at the C-clip button ends.
GM Tapered the axle shafts to withstand bending loads street driving. Like hitting a pothole driving or accelerating.
Work fine till drag racing or road racing with lots of HP and sticky tires.

You may not be so lucky the next time if a replacement stock axle breaks.

A good time to collect thoughts.
Do it Right .
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 05:43:24 PM
The logic I just used in my last post is exactly why I ended up at the track last night, I really wasn't going to go. Good or bad, "stuff" can't happen if you do nothing. Makes for an extremely boring life.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 05:51:00 PM
The logic I just used in my last post is exactly why I ended up at the track last night, I really wasn't going to go. Good or bad, "stuff" can't happen if you do nothing. Makes for an extremely boring life.
You can not be replaced if your Killed.

Its serious business Drag Racing.

Do You remember what happened to Big Chief ?
His Twin Turbo 480 Butler Race Car GTO with 3,000 HP + and tangoed with that 5.0 Mustang ?
Like a flash sht happens.

Never forget the right hardware and safety gear.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 06:12:00 PM
The logic I just used in my last post is exactly why I ended up at the track last night, I really wasn't going to go. Good or bad, "stuff" can't happen if you do nothing. Makes for an extremely boring life.
You can not be replaced if your Killed.

Its serious business Drag Racing.

Do You remember what happened to Big Chief ?
His Twin Turbo 480 Butler Race Car GTO with 3,000 HP + and tangoed with that 5.0 Mustang ?
Like a flash sht happens.

Never forget the right hardware and safety gear.
what do you think about all these movie stars hanging themselves lately? That's what happens when you're afraid of your own shadow.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 06:22:45 PM
The logic I just used in my last post is exactly why I ended up at the track last night, I really wasn't going to go. Good or bad, "stuff" can't happen if you do nothing. Makes for an extremely boring life.
You can not be replaced if your Killed.

Its serious business Drag Racing.

Do You remember what happened to Big Chief ?
His Twin Turbo 480 Butler Race Car GTO with 3,000 HP + and tangoed with that 5.0 Mustang ?
Like a flash sht happens.

Never forget the right hardware and safety gear.
what do you think about all these movie stars hanging themselves lately? That's what happens when you're afraid of your own shadow.
We are alot alike.
I think I may be just a couple years older than you Garry.

Think of it this way then, Do You Know How Many People would like to own our Pontiacs ?
1970-73 are highly prized.
Nothing looks better from GM many concur.

Thousands of Corvette guys were Jealous of what I own from 2007 -2017 on the Vette Forums.

I treat all equal & help all to the best of my abilities I can do from Laptop, desktop PC, & from a Cellphone.




Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 27, 2017, 07:02:07 PM
"...You may not be so lucky the next time if a replacement stock axle breaks..."


"...I'll probably just throw a better set of axles in it..."


Don't look like Garry plans to use "replacement stock axles". So, do ya'll think that the engine in the car now has enuff power to break a Moser C-clip axle ???

The 8.5 can also be upgraded to 30-spline axles, which are said to be little stronger.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-5-GM-Chevy-10-Bolt-Mini-Spool-30-Spline-Axle-Rearend-Axle-Locker-NEW-/391791736494?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-32233/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a103003?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-moser-engineering&gclid=Cj0KEQjwx6TJBRCWtsiXpI7bhOYBEiQA1en3F8jE_8fPUadnE9ZgD1zhjLfvnJn1XQqRM8xYxcv9v_UaAhD78P8HAQ

One thing I thought of that might help is to power brake the converter up to about 2000rpm for launch. If you have been launching from an idle, the flash of the converter will shock the axles, similar to popping the clutch, when using a manual trans. Power braking will pre-load the axles, rather than shocking them. This might also help with traction problem a little.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 27, 2017, 07:24:47 PM
"...You may not be so lucky the next time if a replacement stock axle breaks..."


"...I'll probably just throw a better set of axles in it..."


Don't look like Garry plans to use "replacement stock axles". So, do ya'll think that the engine in the car now has enuff power to break a Moser C-clip axle ???

The 8.5 can also be upgraded to 30-spline axles, which are said to be little stronger.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-5-GM-Chevy-10-Bolt-Mini-Spool-30-Spline-Axle-Rearend-Axle-Locker-NEW-/391791736494?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-32233/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a103003?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-moser-engineering&gclid=Cj0KEQjwx6TJBRCWtsiXpI7bhOYBEiQA1en3F8jE_8fPUadnE9ZgD1zhjLfvnJn1XQqRM8xYxcv9v_UaAhD78P8HAQ
I kmow you dont like me Oldschool.
You have made that obvious.
I joined here about 1 year ago and visited quietly.
Never posted.

I am not going to gamble and Give Garry Bad Advice.
I used to build lots od Drag Racing Rear Diffs before the Economic crash of 2007.
Many are still being raced on today.
A friend has an 8.60 ET 5.0 Stang. Traps at 160 mph.
I built the Ford 8.8 rear diff.

Yes there is more than 1 Pontiac mechanic in the world other than YOU.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 07:39:37 PM
Jesus built my hotrod  :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXCh9OhDiCI
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: oldskool on May 27, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
"...I kmow you dont like me Oldschool.
You have made that obvious..."

That's ridiculous ! I don't know you at all. But, I have noticed that on this particular thread you are giving the OP advice for dedicated drag cars that are going MUCH quicker than he is trying to go, right now. He only wants to go maybe into the 11's, if I understand it correctly.

There are probably thousands of cars that are doing that with 10 & 12-bolt rears. With unlimited funds, it's a no-brainer. Buy stronger parts than you'll ever need. Don't ever take a chance on breaking anything. OVERKILL is the word. BUT, Garry has posted that he doesn't have the funds, right now, to go with one of the bulletproof rear ends. So, I merely posted some info which I thought might help him beef up his 10-bolt a bit. If you think that, in some way, means I don't like you, then that's your problem--not mine.

But, I'm not on forums to argue with others. Just trying to offer helpful info. So, since you seem to have an attitude, this is my last post on this thread. In fact, if you insist on being hard to get along with, I'll just quit posting on this forum all together. This is supposed to be fun. The fun is now gone.

Garry, please accept my apology for this post & anything else I may have posted that was not helpful !
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: critter on May 27, 2017, 09:14:38 PM
This forum does not advocate street racing and we hope anyone reading this understands that doing so is dangerous not only to yourself but to innocent people on those same streets. Please consider that.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 27, 2017, 09:28:37 PM
The tow truck driver literally set my car on my trailer for me and didn't charge a dime. I thought that was extremely cool.

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/Mayhem%20proof%20of%20purchase_zpsa6h8odjp.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 08:35:38 AM
Ok Oldskool.

We Condone Street Racing in the Corvette World.

If You look around you just may find a Bullet proof rear for $400-500.
Most of the 1957-64 Pontiac 9.3 Rears I bought for $50- 200 only.
One I paid $550 because it was customed Fabbed and under an old Friends 1979 For Mustang 5.0 That had a Buick 455 installed.
Ran Low 11's Normal Aspirated.
On Spray 250 shot it ran 10.50's - 10.60's.
The stock Ford 8.8 blew up right away.
So a Pontiac 9.3 was used. Absolute bone stock with 3.42 gears.
Custom fabbed upper ears to fit the stang upper control arms.
Every Chevy guy around here used a Pontiac 9.3 growing up. Or Dana 60 from a Mopar.

The Ford racecar is gone. Was Mid 1990s. I snagged up its old 9.3 Pontiac rear diff.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 08:45:46 AM
Thats a pretty healthy shot. I kept a 175 in my 69. Anything more was useless.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 08:58:20 AM
Thats a pretty healthy shot. I kept a 175 in my 69. Anything more was useless.
Pretty healthy shot.
Chevy guys were insane around here 1990s.
Worlds fastest street shootout 2 guys ran in and traveled to compete.
500-750 shots.

I built one 10 and a 12 for a friend with a 1981 Camaro.
When he built a Big block chevy He bent the axle tubes back 2 inches from a hard launch.
Unrepairable.
10 & 12 held up Small block chevy.

I built the Dana 60 for Frank Taylor.
He won the 1st World Outlaws Wheelie contest in Byron Illinois.
1994. Won again in 1995.
Back bumper dragging no wheelie bars front end off the ground 200 - 300 feet.
About 1400hp on spray.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 09:27:02 AM
From a street standpoint most guys started scattering stock lower ends when they started spraying 150 plus. I'm probably just going to order a better set of axles and call it good, I don't feel like this should have happened on motor so I'm writing it off as age. The guy that owned the car before me was road coarsing it so those axles have seen some abuse.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 09:32:57 AM
From a street standpoint most guys started scattering stock lower ends when they started spraying 150 plus. I'm probably just going to order a better set of axles and call it good, I don't feel like this should have happened on motor so I'm writing it off as age. The guy that owned the car before me was road coarsing it so those axles have seen some abuse.
Before you do that look around on Racingjunk.com
Your local Craigslist.
Also find leads to parts you want.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 09:37:39 AM
Another friend is A mopar guy.
He had a 1966 GTO wth a 428 Tripower.
Loved it.
He buys Factory B & E body Dana 60s for no more thsn $500.
Knows the mopar camp online.
Usually 2k to start.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 09:44:06 AM
Yeah there's some Mopar people in my area that could probably help but they haven't stepped up. I want the car up & running by next weekend so I'm not going to dick around. I just put a ring & pinion in this 8.5 so other than the axle shafts everything else is new.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 11:53:30 AM
In other words I think this 8.5 will do the trick for a little longer. If it breaks again I'll just have to fix it. Lucky for me I have that ability. If I kill myself having fun so be it but I've yet to see that happen and at 55 I really don't care either way about it.
Ok.
I have seen plenty of axle shafts break. Stock and racing.
If you don't get killed thats Ok.
If you get killed I guess its Ok because you dont care.
But the guy in the next lane might.
Or a Bystander watching from the sidelines.
Tire and axle shaft jumps over the retaining wall at speed.
No way to stop it.

Yes there are Guardian Angels. They take Coffee and Cigarette smoke breaks too.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 12:09:18 PM
Quote
Ok.
I have seen plenty of axle shafts break. Stock and racing.
If you don't get killed thats Ok.
If you get killed I guess its Ok because you dont care.
But the guy in the next lane might.
Or a Bystander watching from the sidelines.
Tire and axle shaft jumps over the retaining wall at speed.
No way to stop it.

Yes there are Guardian Angels. They take Coffee and Cigarette smoke breaks too.

You're not giving me credit for being at the track man.... if you knew how many times I've actually been to the track in my lifetime you'd know getting me there was a miracle in itself. I've always been a street racer, I sold my car when I moved to Arizona.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 12:23:26 PM
Quote
Ok.
I have seen plenty of axle shafts break. Stock and racing.
If you don't get killed thats Ok.
If you get killed I guess its Ok because you dont care.
But the guy in the next lane might.
Or a Bystander watching from the sidelines.
Tire and axle shaft jumps over the retaining wall at speed.
No way to stop it.

Yes there are Guardian Angels. They take Coffee and Cigarette smoke breaks too.

You're not giving me credit for being at the track man.... if you knew how many times I've actually been to the track in my lifetime you'd know getting me there was a miracle in itself. I've always been a street racer, I sold my car when I moved to Arizona.
Good Job Greg.
I am 48.
Been Street Racing my Entire Life since 17.
1st night I bought my 1978 Formula Firebird 4-speed Hurst Hatch T top I got 13 tickets. 1 for unlawfull exhibition of speed Street Racing.
Your old enough to think it through.
Moser came out with those C-clip axles just for the Pro Touring crowd. They know they never drag race. Road race. Street race.
Strange Engineering. Mark Williams. No one else will make a Race axle with a C-clip.
No one wants to get SUED FOR $1,000,000,000 .
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 01:34:05 PM
It's an environment thing for me. What I'm learning from these Mayhem events is there's a lot of cool people there that I like to be around. They really have taken the kind of street scene that I'm used to and brought it to the track. If I take my car out on a Friday or Saturday night I'm one of the very few cars out. I don't want to be that guy that sticks out like a sore thumb. If the people don't want to play I'll find another place to do it. For me it's the track. I don't drink and I've worked on enough cars to last 3 or 4 lifetimes.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 02:39:57 PM
They have Midnight Mayhem events at Cordova Illinois track here. I live about 95 miles East.
I have driven my Trans Am and Raced there in the past.
Race from 12 Am to 4Am.
Tech is at 11pm prior to the event.
It is Fun. You do meet people from all different walks of life. Christmas Tree is shut off.
Just timeclocks are on and you get your timeslips at end of track.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 02:59:54 PM
They do it a little earlier out here, gates open at 6 and race until 2. They say no trailers but theres parking out front and a lot of people bring them.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
Basically even tho I broke my car and didn't stick around very long it was still fun. When the axle snapped I got out of the car took my helmet off then looked at crowd and threw my hands in the air like "Who's The Man" and they went nuts. I got a big kick out of that one.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 28, 2017, 05:16:52 PM
Basically even tho I broke my car and didn't stick around very long it was still fun. When the axle snapped I got out of the car took my helmet off then looked at crowd and threw my hands in the air like "Who's The Man" and they went nuts. I got a big kick out of that one.
Lol.

I used to have a collection of 1970's Hotrod Magazines featuring 1970's Birds and Trans Ams.
Ken Crocie HO Racing Articles and Pontiac engine builds. And Featuring Herb Adams in his Fire Am Car builds.
Herb Adams took a 1973 Firebird Espirt he built up with a 455 D-port .
Went to the dragstrip with sticky tires.
He broke A C-clip axle exact as you did on the Drivers side. Shot out complete . Tire and Rim, and brake drum attached. Broke right at the C-clip.
They Photographed and published what happened.
About same ET as You hit.
Also photoed the Fire Am Bird on its brake backing plate on the ground with gear oil running out.

I was about 27 . Found a huge collection of Those Hotrod magazines in the back of a 1979 WS6 4-wheel disc brake equipped Trans Am in the local Salvage yard. Was parting the car out for Goodies.
Took about 50 magazines home. Kool find.

I remember showing my old Neighbor Mike.
He was a diehard Chevy Guy.
He had a 9- second Chevy Monza 355 sbc Tunnel Ram..
Yeah those 10& 12 Bolts are JUNK Brian.
Whats the diff in your Race car Mike a 9 inch ?
No. I have better and stronger.
A PONTIAC 9.3 I narrowed myself.
Got on a Creepeer in his garage.
Looked.
Like a Ford 9 but Fing Huge.
Massive Rear Differential.
Pontiac 9.3.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 05:48:47 PM
Basically even tho I broke my car and didn't stick around very long it was still fun. When the axle snapped I got out of the car took my helmet off then looked at crowd and threw my hands in the air like "Who's The Man" and they went nuts. I got a big kick out of that one.
Lol.

I used to have a collection of 1970's Hotrod Magazines featuring 1970's Birds and Trans Ams.
Ken Crocie HO Racing Articles and Pontiac engine builds. And Featuring Herb Adams in his Fire Am Car builds.
Herb Adams took a 1973 Firebird Espirt he built up with a 455 D-port .
Went to the dragstrip with sticky tires.
He broke A C-clip axle exact as you did on the Drivers side. Shot out complete . Tire and Rim, and brake drum attached. Broke right at the C-clip.
They Photographed and published what happened.
About same ET as You hit.
Also photoed the Fire Am Bird on its brake backing plate on the ground with gear oil running out.

I was about 27 . Found a huge collection of Those Hotrod magazines in the back of a 1979 WS6 4-wheel disc brake equipped Trans Am in the local Salvage yard. Was parting the car out for Goodies.
Took about 50 magazines home. Kool find.

I remember showing my old Neighbor Mike.
He was a diehard Chevy Guy.
He had a 9- second Chevy Monza 355 sbc Tunnel Ram..
Yeah those 10& 12 Bolts are JUNK Brian.
Whats the diff in your Race car Mike a 9 inch ?
No. I have better and stronger.
A PONTIAC 9.3 I narrowed myself.
Got on a Creepeer in his garage.
Looked.
Like a Ford 9 but Fing Huge.
Massive Rear Differential.
Pontiac 9.3.
I've heard about this but it's a little before my time. Meanwhile it's just an axle shaft. If I had another one sitting here I'd already be driving the car.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 28, 2017, 08:30:44 PM
If you can't come up with enuff $$$$ for a complete new rear end, and your rear end is still usable, the cheapest quick fix is to just replace your stock axles with good C-clip axles, such as the Moser brand.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a102803/overview/year/1973/make/pontiac/model/firebird

It's either those or these https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-700116/overview/year/1973/make/chevrolet/model/camaro

The bearings trashed and these come with everything.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 05:38:29 AM
Those axles are fine for a street driven car.
 They all have C-clips button ends.
Terrifying dangerous for Drag Racing And ultra high speed road racing.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 05:43:53 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/10-bolt_zpsusozqvdo.png)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 05:57:58 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/Dana%2060%20Mine_zpsjbniecsd.png)

This My Dana 60 I have.
Pulled from a 1963 Ford F100 1/2 Ton .
The optional Heavy Duty Rear Differential they used in F100 from 1961-1964. Pretty rare now.
It has Bolt in axle shafts with Huge oversize Ball bearing ends.
4.10 Gears and has Posi Traction. Called The Dana Power Lock Posi Unit. It has 4-spider gears for ultra high torque capacity.

Pontiac 9.3 Differentials with Posi also had the Dana Powerlock Posi unit 1958-1963.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 06:12:31 AM
A Wheel and Tire and axle shaft attached shooting out because the C-clip Button end broke off Will Kill anyone nearby.
Go Right through the side of a car door likely.
A Bystander will have his or her Head taken right off or Body exploded apart to a bloody Mess.

I know you don't care about Dieing. Suicidal.

No Need to kill others Racing at the track.
Spend the $100 bucks or so and get C-clip Eliminators.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 07:28:08 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_4812_zps1n21gpcl.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_5859_zpsc30ki2bk.jpg)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_5858_zpsrlkhzldf.jpg)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_5806_00%20-%20Copy_zpsujl4cjx1.jpg)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_5807_zpsisl4yzpc.jpg)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_3503_zpskitxebsc.jpg)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/100_3521_zpsbsdrs6dz.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 07:36:30 AM
Somewhere in my photo files I have a picture of my 1958 Pontiac 9.3 all cleaned up and shiny bare steel before paint in front of my 1987 Vette. Shows how Big they are also.
Haven't found it yet this morning.
Took like 20,000 photos last 10 years. Not all are tagged by me.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 29, 2017, 08:57:45 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/Dana%2060%20Mine_zpsjbniecsd.png)

This My Dana 60 I have.
Pulled from a 1963 Ford F100 1/2 Ton .
The optional Heavy Duty Rear Differential they used in F100 from 1961-1964. Pretty rare now.
It has Bolt in axle shafts with Huge oversize Ball bearing ends.
4.10 Gears and has Posi Traction. Called The Dana Power Lock Posi Unit. It has 4-spider gears for ultra high torque capacity.

Pontiac 9.3 Differentials with Posi also had the Dana Powerlock Posi unit 1958-1963.
Good info I'll make some calls. That stuff isn't as hard to find out here in AZ.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 29, 2017, 09:29:17 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/10-bolt_zpsusozqvdo.png)
:mrgreen: Running a mini-spool on the streets really isn't helping my axle shaft situation either.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 29, 2017, 09:38:13 AM
I can think of other forums where they'd be saying "I told you so"  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 10:06:40 AM
I can think of other forums where they'd be saying "I told you so"  :mrgreen:
You are not going to be satisfied where your at I know.
There are Cellphones & Facebbook. Twitter too.
Photo snapped at track.
Passed by a Dodge Charger 12's.
Worse Yet a Hellcat at 10.5 and your way behind.
Be even worse with With New Dodge Demon makes a 9.4 Pass, Your Bright Fuscia Purple 1973 Formula Firebird will still be seen in Photos or Videos....be around 1/8 mile back in present situation.
Punk kids upload to You Tube in 5 seconds now.
I made my own You Tube Videos and plan to make more soon.

Fick that Sht.
Losing bad sucks.
Want to be up Front or close.
Winning Best.

Need the right Hardware.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 10:10:34 AM
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/00k0k_g3E1IovKov2_50x50c_zpshiccegvf.jpg)

(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah300/maniacmechanic455/01010_jIaNBsOp3v7_50x50c_zpsuddcgott.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 29, 2017, 06:43:18 PM
I can think of other forums where they'd be saying "I told you so"  :mrgreen:
You are not going to be satisfied where your at I know.
There are Cellphones & Facebbook. Twitter too.
Photo snapped at track.
Passed by a Dodge Charger 12's.
Worse Yet a Hellcat at 10.5 and your way behind.
Be even worse with With New Dodge Demon makes a 9.4 Pass, Your Bright Fuscia Purple 1973 Formula Firebird will still be seen in Photos or Videos....be around 1/8 mile back in present situation.
Punk kids upload to You Tube in 5 seconds now.
I made my own You Tube Videos and plan to make more soon.

Fick that Sht.
Losing bad sucks.
Want to be up Front or close.
Winning Best.

Need the right Hardware.
I need a rolling chassis that I can drop this motor in. I was talking to a guy at the track about that.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 07:14:08 PM
I can think of other forums where they'd be saying "I told you so"  :mrgreen:
You are not going to be satisfied where your at I know.
There are Cellphones & Facebbook. Twitter too.
Photo snapped at track.
Passed by a Dodge Charger 12's.
Worse Yet a Hellcat at 10.5 and your way behind.
Be even worse with With New Dodge Demon makes a 9.4 Pass, Your Bright Fuscia Purple 1973 Formula Firebird will still be seen in Photos or Videos....be around 1/8 mile back in present situation.
Punk kids upload to You Tube in 5 seconds now.
I made my own You Tube Videos and plan to make more soon.

Fick that Sht.
Losing bad sucks.
Want to be up Front or close.
Winning Best.

Need the right Hardware.
I need a rolling chassis that I can drop this motor in. I was talking to a guy at the track about that.
That is one option.
May not make the best street car then.
Roller chassis cars don't have a Vin tag or title.
Makes it tough at the DMV.

Roller chassis cars are dated unless they have NHRA 25.3 Certification.
All sorts of hoops to jump through.
I know a guy that is building a 3,000 Hp Twin Turbo 460 Ford. All aftermarket. Twin 88 mm Ceramic ball bearing Turbos. Borg Warner Units.
Street Outlaws. At least he hopes.
$100,000 spent so far. $200,000 to go.
The Rolling chassis was in my Bud Eds Race Fab garage last Fall. I helped.
We had to hang the Fiberglass doors, mount 1 piece front lift off front end.
4-link car. All 4130 -4140 Chrome moly State of the Art Cage. Top Fuel style jungle jim around the Driver.
STILLETO Billet Rack and Pinion steering gear.
Custom billet spindles with Anglia Hubs and Skinnie up front.
5.0 Mustang 1989.
Former NMCA 5.0 Racer.Top 3 runner years back about 2004.
Pretty insane and bad azz.
Too Rich for my Blood.
Put a few pics up on my own website pages.
wwwmaniacmechanic.com
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 07:17:49 PM
Have to work with what we have.
Can afford.
E heads were patterened after Arnie Beswicks Personal 1970 RAIV Ported Race Heads original.

Gearing, converter matching, Big Long Tube Headers, & Camshaft timing is everything.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 29, 2017, 08:01:28 PM
Sounds badass and it sounds like you guys know what you're doing, good luck with the street outlaw thing. I learned a long time ago most of the top dogs own speed shops and things like that, they're on a different income level and they're not playing when it comes to representing their shop and skills.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 29, 2017, 08:19:49 PM
Sounds badass and it sounds like you guys know what you're doing, good luck with the street outlaw thing. I learned a long time ago most of the top dogs own speed shops and things like that, they're on a different income level and they're not playing when it comes to representing their shop and skills.
ED and me are both Mechanics in our 40's.
He Loves Fab with aluminum, steel, & stainless. TIG weld sunrise to sunset.
Boost Power adder is his specialty.

We are both little guys.
That guy Greg with the 25.3 chassis car sells automotive paint in Chicagoland.
Wholesales large volume.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 29, 2017, 08:30:42 PM
Sounds badass and it sounds like you guys know what you're doing, good luck with the street outlaw thing. I learned a long time ago most of the top dogs own speed shops and things like that, they're on a different income level and they're not playing when it comes to representing their shop and skills.
ED and me are both Mechanics in our 40's.
He Loves Fab with aluminum, steel, & stainless. TIG weld sunrise to sunset.
Boost Power adder is his specialty.

We are both little guys.
That guy Greg with the 25.3 chassis car sells automotive paint in Chicagoland.
Wholesales large volume.
Between the two of you it sounds like you've got it going on. It really takes a team effort.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 30, 2017, 05:34:49 PM
Everything in the rear end still looks like new as far as ring & Pinion and things like that. The only things I didn't replace yet were the axle shafts & outer bearings. Like I've already said, it didn't lose a c-clip or the button, It snapped.

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/20170530_162112_zps2wiri96t.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: mrbandit on May 31, 2017, 07:49:25 AM
I'm late to the discussion, but it sounds like you have a lot of information to feed off.  I just read thru the post and I have to ask have you dealt with the initial issues?  I saw that you replaced the filters, but the metal ones aren't really much better.  I used to run a FRAM high flow unit with replacement filters that wasn't that expensive.  Also, you mentioned you are running a stock ignition.  Have you thought about upgrading to MSD yet?  It really helped the Bandit I used to run.  The other thing to consider is isolating the air into the carb from the engine bay.  I have read a lot of detailed articles with time slips to prove that isolation helps as well as the right air filter.  I would also refrain from adding weight to your car for traction.  When I had my Bandit I stripped it down pretty far and every 100lbs was about 2 tenths on the time.  I tried traction bars and they didn't help.  I would go cal-tracs.  My brothers race truck has them and they really work.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 31, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
I'm late to the discussion, but it sounds like you have a lot of information to feed off.  I just read thru the post and I have to ask have you dealt with the initial issues?  I saw that you replaced the filters, but the metal ones aren't really much better.  I used to run a FRAM high flow unit with replacement filters that wasn't that expensive.  Also, you mentioned you are running a stock ignition.  Have you thought about upgrading to MSD yet?  It really helped the Bandit I used to run.  The other thing to consider is isolating the air into the carb from the engine bay.  I have read a lot of detailed articles with time slips to prove that isolation helps as well as the right air filter.  I would also refrain from adding weight to your car for traction.  When I had my Bandit I stripped it down pretty far and every 100lbs was about 2 tenths on the time.  I tried traction bars and they didn't help.  I would go cal-tracs.  My brothers race truck has them and they really work.

Everyone is saying Cal-Tracs even at the track, they must work. As far as the rest of the stuff goes the list is still pretty long, we're on the wifes income right now and she just picked up a new car so the budgets pretty tight. It's one of those I shouldn't even be playing with the car things but I need to do something to entertain myself or I'll go totally nuts. I was crazy enough before the boredom.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 31, 2017, 01:39:25 PM
Moroso - Competition Engineering Slide A Link Traction Bars I have on my Trans Am.
Excellent Quality.
Like Caltrac But I think better.
They costed me around $450 to buy in 2004.
Still on my car.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on May 31, 2017, 01:40:34 PM
Lakewood or Budget Competition Engineering traction bars will work Ok also.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on May 31, 2017, 02:08:21 PM
Lakewood or Budget Competition Engineering traction bars will work Ok also.

The more I talk about the car the worse the situation gets, I'd be very wise to drift into the background on this one. i was going to get into a little more serious grudge racing but i think it'd just be stupid on my part at this time.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 01, 2017, 05:56:13 PM
Lakewood or Budget Competition Engineering traction bars will work Ok also.

The more I talk about the car the worse the situation gets, I'd be very wise to drift into the background on this one. i was going to get into a little more serious grudge racing but i think it'd just be stupid on my part at this time.
You have all Summer and most of the Fall. They Race in Arizona a long time seasonal. Never snows and if does its gone fast.
Better off taking your time and getting it done right your way.
Little guy drag racing is in Limbo .
Waiting Trump to get stuff done.
Elimination of Bama care.
Tax breaks.
Much more.
Congress to blame.
No New Corvette fast enough or Camaro to take on the New Dodge Demon due this fall drag racing.
Guys that are into Road Racing most cant afford.
Limbo too.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 01, 2017, 05:58:36 PM
Plug away.
Find side jobs local.
Surf all the Forums.
Find other Racers like us.
Sometimes you get hired to build.
Custom Fab projects I like.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 10:29:54 AM
I was thinking about going rear disc brakes. I doubt it's a cure all but it'll help. Those Moser C-Clip eliminator kits have aluminum housings and this concerns me. They say drag race only.
 
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 05:30:39 PM
I was thinking about going rear disc brakes. I doubt it's a cure all but it'll help. Those Moser C-Clip eliminator kits have aluminum housings and this concerns me. They say drag race only.
No disc brake Caliper brackets and Caliper slide pins will not retain the axle shaft and tire and wheel for long if tge axle breaks anywhere.

All GM Clip Eliminators have aluminum construction.
Moser must have experienced A Lawsuit recent. Failure on street possible.
Want thier C-clip Eliminators used on Dragstrip.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 05:39:20 PM
Fact is nothing will ever hold gear oil in as good as the Stock C-clip axle shaft.
All C-clip Elinators for GM rearends have a bad habits of dripping. Or steady leaks.
Gets worse when its Hot out.
In past I used only Strange Engineering C-Clip Eliminators with Strange Hy Tuff Axles.
Most track useage. Ford guys did Street Strip had leaks.
I had to replace the Flange gaskets.
Bead of Ultra Gray Slicone.
C-clip Eliminators dont like Bending torsional loads street driving. Hitting ruts or potholes.
If roads are decent should be ok.
Be prepared for gear oil drips.
Fixing when required.
I know where you at.
Tight budget.
Most are today.

Why 9 inch better.
Dana 60.
Pontiac 9.3 rear diff.
Bypass all leaks. They use an inner axle shaft seal pressed into eah axle tube.
Not possible on 10 & 12 with C-clip Eliminators.
You Cutoff Hawsaw the Roller bearing ends with stock seal bosses.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 05:43:41 PM
True Race 9 good for 2000 Hp.
Dana 60 Built 2000 HP.
Stock layout with aftermarket axle shafts Posi Dana Unit 1000+ HP. DRAG SPOOL DANA 60 2000 HP+
Pontiac 9.3 was used in Early Nitromethane Funny Cars and Dragsters.
Near all Gassers.
1000 HP easy. Full Race likely 2000Hp Plus.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 08:26:52 PM
Here's a setup I trust right here. Steel housing ends. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/build-bulletproof-gm-10-bolt-axle-built-c-clip-eliminator/
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 08:44:22 PM
Here's a setup I trust right here. Steel housing ends. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/build-bulletproof-gm-10-bolt-axle-built-c-clip-eliminator/
I looked at your link and read.
I was thinking similar driving home.
Mark Williams or Strange Enginering Race Housing Ends for Ford 9, Dana 60, Pontiac 9.3.

Strange C-clip Eliminators have same disclaimer Drag Race Only now.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/str-a1033
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 08:46:38 PM
I guess you have to follow through.
You have the 10-bolt prior with new gears you installed.

Like you said yourself I want a 9 inch.
Last week.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 08:48:20 PM
Truetrac , Turbo Boost, 10 bolt, ect like that article states is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 08:49:53 PM
I guess you have to follow through.
You have the 10-bolt prior with new gears you installed.

Like you said yourself I want a 9 inch.
Last week.

I do but it's not in the stars right now. Being able to swap the pig is a pretty cool feature on top of those c-clip eliminators.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 08:54:19 PM
I turned down a sidejob recent Building a 8.5 10-bolt for a Chicago Street Racer.
540 Big Block Chevy with AFR Race Heads.
Procharger F1. 21 pounds of Boost.
1000 Hp not even trying.
Guys race for $500 to start.
50,000 big races.
Told it can not blow up.
Yeah Right.
It would have paid $400-500 cash.
Not worth getting shot later.

My bud Ed was mad at me.
Ridiculous.
Just Fick No Ed.
I WANT A DANA 60 OR FORGET IT.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 08:58:34 PM
I turned down a sidejob recent Building a 8.5 10-bolt for a Chicago Street Racer.
540 Big Block Chevy with AFR Race Heads.
Procharger F1. 21 pounds of Boost.
1000 Hp not even trying.
Guys race for $500 to start.
50,000 big races.
Told it can not blow up.
Yeah Right.
It would have paid $400-500 cash.
Not worth getting shot later.

My bud Ed was mad at me.
Ridiculous.
Just Fick No Ed.
I WANT A DANA 60 OR FORGET IT.

If you think about the average Trans Am guy he'd probably rather keep his factory housing so maybe we helped someone else along the way. All good.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 09:34:56 PM
I turned down a sidejob recent Building a 8.5 10-bolt for a Chicago Street Racer.
540 Big Block Chevy with AFR Race Heads.
Procharger F1. 21 pounds of Boost.
1000 Hp not even trying.
Guys race for $500 to start.
50,000 big races.
Told it can not blow up.
Yeah Right.
It would have paid $400-500 cash.
Not worth getting shot later.

My bud Ed was mad at me.
Ridiculous.
Just Fick No Ed.
I WANT A DANA 60 OR FORGET IT.

If you think about the average Trans Am guy he'd probably rather keep his factory housing so maybe we helped someone else along the way. All good.
Yes. Most everyone should be able to run 12's if they choose to go to the dragstrip.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 10:11:01 PM
Quote
Yes. Most everyone should be able to run 12's if they choose to go to the dragstrip.

You needed to be mid 10s back in Mi on the streets if you wanted to have serious fun. This car can't touch my old car no matter what I do to it.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 10:27:07 PM
Quote
Yes. Most everyone should be able to run 12's if they choose to go to the dragstrip.

You needed to be mid 10s back in Mi on the streets if you wanted to have serious fun. This car can't touch my old car no matter what I do to it.
Twin Turbo 88 mm it would & more.
Need at least $10,000 to feasibly pull it off.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 10:36:38 PM
Quote
Yes. Most everyone should be able to run 12's if they choose to go to the dragstrip.

You needed to be mid 10s back in Mi on the streets if you wanted to have serious fun. This car can't touch my old car no matter what I do to it.
Twin Turbo 88 mm it would & more.
Need at least $10,000 to feasibly pull it off.
Yeah there's no way that's happening. I could dip into the 9s on spray with my 69 and it was always on spray. When they tried to pull the disconnect your bottle crap it was like kiss my ass. I wasn't born yesterday.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 10:37:18 PM
Need a really Good Stall torque converter also.
Difference will be night and day.
Down the road a different camshaft. A grind that does bleed off cylinder pressure. I seen that when I DD2000 the engine combo for you.

Everything used to be Full race as you know.
Reason why we had to run 100 motor octane gas or better. 110 was the way to go.

Everyone wanted nice tame street driving manners.
So they got it.
Result is running SLOWWWW.
Now that Drag Racing is back these Pro Tour Combos are worthless against Modern Muscle.
Ditto in the Corvette World.
Every single one got their asses handed to them by DODGE.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 10:48:05 PM
Yeah my 69 ran on 110 and it was built to handle one hell of a nitrous hit. Night & day to what I have now.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 10:51:46 PM
2nd gen is heavier.
Our 1970-73 not as bad as you think.
Later TA had huge Crash steel bumpers mandated my Feds.
Add an extra 200 lbs dead weight.  Smokey & Bandit era to 1981.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 02, 2017, 10:54:41 PM
Pontiac V8 Loves high compression.
Discovered long ago by Pontiac Engineers.

Have that pee water gas to deal with.

No substitute for 110 Lead Race Gas still unless Twin Turbo Boost.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 02, 2017, 11:21:25 PM
Pontiac V8 Loves high compression.
Discovered long ago by Pontiac Engineers.

Have that pee water gas to deal with.

No substitute for 110 Lead Race Gas still unless Twin Turbo Boost.

The race fuel sits in tanks forever out here at the gas stations. I don't even want to put it in my car. It running better on race fuel is a given and I won't spray without it.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 03, 2017, 08:18:09 AM
Pontiac V8 Loves high compression.
Discovered long ago by Pontiac Engineers.

Have that pee water gas to deal with.

No substitute for 110 Lead Race Gas still unless Twin Turbo Boost.

The race fuel sits in tanks forever out here at the gas stations. I don't even want to put it in my car. It running better on race fuel is a given and I won't spray without it.
The Race Fuel may be Ok.
I have stored Race Fuel for 2-5 years and ran my car on it later.
Longest was VP C16 116 motor octane race gas.
9/11 in 2001 After the commotion I went out and bought a bunch of Race Gasoline and Aviation gasoline.
Complete Chaos as you recall. Pump 87 was 7-8 bucks a gallon. Race fuel and AV gas was still cheap that day.
Stocked up. Forgot about it for several years.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 03, 2017, 04:45:09 PM
I'm trying to key myself down and these guys on facebook are getting me keyed right back up......

I ain't easy being me....  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 03, 2017, 04:57:53 PM
I'm trying to key myself down and these guys on facebook are getting me keyed right back up......

I ain't easy being me....  :mrgreen:
Yeah I have a Facebook account.
I am on there sometimes.
Lots of Racers are on there.
Its Ok somedays. Other days it Bullshot.
The Younger guys than us are on Facebook nonstop.
I like Car Forums.

There are some groups I joined.
Engine building , Transmission building, Drag Racing.
It seemed Ok at 1st. I was watching.
Big name guys came in and took over.
Lots of details left out on builds as I have done on forums myself in past.
Its Ok to keep a secret edge to yourself.
I usually leave key clues for smart guys that can solve.
Let them research and learn as we did.

Big guys get mad when you tell them they are wrong or you have a different opinion.
So I dont post much on Facebook.

Better off staying off Facebook.
I know its hard.
All Racers like to bicker and fight.
Natural because that is part of the makeup of mechanics and racing.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 03, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
I'm trying to key myself down and these guys on facebook are getting me keyed right back up......

I ain't easy being me....  :mrgreen:
Yeah I have a Facebook account.
I am on there sometimes.
Lots of Racers are on there.
Its Ok somedays. Other days it Bullshot.
The Younger guys than us are on Facebook nonstop.
I like Car Forums.

There are some groups I joined.
Engine building , Transmission building, Drag Racing.
It seemed Ok at 1st. I was watching.
Big name guys came in and took over.
Lots of details left out on builds as I have done on forums myself in past.
Its Ok to keep a secret edge to yourself.
I usually leave key clues for smart guys that can solve.
Let them research and learn as we did.

Big guys get mad when you tell them they are wrong or you have a different opinion.
So I dont post much on Facebook.

Better off staying off Facebook.
I know its hard.
All Racers like to bicker and fight.
Natural because that is part of the makeup of mechanics and racing.
It keeps me up to date with the local street & drag racers. Meets & things like that. Status on their cars and whatever.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 03, 2017, 06:54:18 PM
If they pull the right strings I'll usually bring my car out.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 03, 2017, 07:11:59 PM
If they pull the right strings I'll usually bring my car out.
Breaking another stock axle shaft would suck.


Please refrain from using vulgar words.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 03, 2017, 07:56:53 PM
Ok. I looked on Facebook.
Lots going on.
Searching for deals for you with 9 & Dana 60.

Bud Ed sent me a Text.
Guy with the Cutlass Street race car blew the 540 BBC.
lost oil pressure.
Needs it back together by the 17th.
Big $5,000 race in Georgia.
Ed says No...I say Yes we both need the $$$$.

Chatting with a Chevy bud in New York.
He is going Road Racing in his Dads old 71 Chevelle.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 04, 2017, 08:54:40 AM
Ok. I looked on Facebook.
Lots going on.
Searching for deals for you with 9 & Dana 60.

Bud Ed sent me a Text.
Guy with the Cutlass Street race car blew the 540 BBC.
lost oil pressure.
Needs it back together by the 17th.
Big $5,000 race in Georgia.
Ed says No...I say Yes we both need the $$$$.

Chatting with a Chevy bud in New York.
He is going Road Racing in his Dads old 71 Chevelle.
Got a hookup on ford 9 last night. Just a matter of getting out of the house.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 04, 2017, 03:14:51 PM
Ok. I looked on Facebook.
Lots going on.
Searching for deals for you with 9 & Dana 60.

Bud Ed sent me a Text.
Guy with the Cutlass Street race car blew the 540 BBC.
lost oil pressure.
Needs it back together by the 17th.
Big $5,000 race in Georgia.
Ed says No...I say Yes we both need the $$$$.

Chatting with a Chevy bud in New York.
He is going Road Racing in his Dads old 71 Chevelle.
Got a hookup on ford 9 last night. Just a matter of getting out of the house.
That is Great News Garry.
Much better suited for what your doing.
Drag Race. And Street Driving Fun.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 06, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
Ok. I looked on Facebook.
Lots going on.
Searching for deals for you with 9 & Dana 60.

Bud Ed sent me a Text.
Guy with the Cutlass Street race car blew the 540 BBC.
lost oil pressure.
Needs it back together by the 17th.
Big $5,000 race in Georgia.
Ed says No...I say Yes we both need the $$$$.

Chatting with a Chevy bud in New York.
He is going Road Racing in his Dads old 71 Chevelle.
Got a hookup on ford 9 last night. Just a matter of getting out of the house.
That is Great News Garry.
Much better suited for what your doing.
Drag Race. And Street Driving Fun.
The streets are boring me these days. Once in a blue moon when I get the itch. It doesn't cost much to keep the car legal in the meantime.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 06, 2017, 07:45:50 PM
Get your kicks on route 66...... what a joke. A show of hands to all that loved history class shuts that joke down quick.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 07, 2017, 05:21:49 AM
Ok. I looked on Facebook.
Lots going on.
Searching for deals for you with 9 & Dana 60.

Bud Ed sent me a Text.
Guy with the Cutlass Street race car blew the 540 BBC.
lost oil pressure.
Needs it back together by the 17th.
Big $5,000 race in Georgia.
Ed says No...I say Yes we both need the $$$$.

Chatting with a Chevy bud in New York.
He is going Road Racing in his Dads old 71 Chevelle.
Got a hookup on ford 9 last night. Just a matter of getting out of the house.
That is Great News Garry.
Much better suited for what your doing.
Drag Race. And Street Driving Fun.
The streets are boring me these days. Once in a blue moon when I get the itch. It doesn't cost much to keep the car legal in the meantime.
Its that time of year now.
Hotrod Power Tour is about to start.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 07, 2017, 05:29:52 AM
Get your kicks on route 66...... what a joke. A show of hands to all that loved history class shuts that joke down quick.
Most here are into Pro Touring.
We are the only Die Hard Drag Racers right now here that I know of.
They do not really understand us.
We Grew up in era when everyone raced every single night in the spring, summer, & fall.

Facebook I have been on lately.
Lots going on there.

You live in the Desert.
I live in the middle of Cornland.
Drive into South Chicago every day for work.

The Only Road race track there is the Autobahn. Its a Private club and you have to put up $10,000 cash I am told to play and race on their track. When I worked in a Race shop with a Mustang AWD Chassis Dyno next to Route 66 Raceway I was told that by other C5 & C6 Corvette owners that stopped in and had money to burn. Road raced.






Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 07, 2017, 05:40:03 AM
Been thinking about the Edelbrock E heads for Pontiac V8's.
Not responding making the HP of course as desired. In theory they should deliver 100 Hp more than present had.
Camshaft swap not possible present.
Set with the supplied Port shape & Runner Volumes can not change.

Recalling old Ken Crocie articles where he used E Heads on Stroker Pontiac V8's.
Timing was set at 26 -29 BTDC only.
The Edge was using 110 -112- 114 Pure Leaded Race Fuel uncut. 100 % Virgin Clean out the Race Fuel container in 55 gallon or 5 gallon VP or Sunoco containers.

I think need to match the Burn rate of the combustion chambers to Race Fuel.

I have noticed the same with my 614 1970 RAIV Heads on my 70 Trans Am in the Past.
Real race Fuel unlocks Power gains.


Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 07, 2017, 09:22:56 AM
Quote
Real race Fuel unlocks Power gains

Yeah race fuel would pep mine right up. If I ever spray it I'll be running it. I don't want to advance the timing right now on cheap gas.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 07, 2017, 09:39:00 AM
Quote
Real race Fuel unlocks Power gains

Yeah race fuel would pep mine right up. If I ever spray it I'll be running it. I don't want to advance the timing right now on cheap gas.
Your going to need to expirement next time at the strip.
After MPH Trap speeds that means HP gains.
A clean hard hookup should equate to high 11s.
Its going to get Summertime Hot Soon.
Pump gas and heat dont mix very well.
Maybe start off with water coolant temps staged at 120-140F.
End of run 160-200F.
An electric fan on a switch will help. Can mount in front of radiator and use as a pusher.
Plenty of room on 2nd gen birds with no AC Condenser.
I myself would use a 160 F T-stat or Use a Moroso water restrrictor plate. Red or Blue. 3/4 - 1.00 inch hole.
Water restrictor plate more reliable than any T-stat.
Accuracy in metered water flow guaranteed.
Probably 1.00 inch because your in Arizona.
If you leave the water restrictor plate in on the street monitor water temps and change oil often.
On street I myself have seen steady 140-180F water temps after 10 minutes run time and drive time.
What matters is matching water temps in each cylinder head , combustion chamber, & type of gasoline used.
What can be done dirt cheap for now.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 07, 2017, 10:37:55 AM
Quote
Real race Fuel unlocks Power gains

Yeah race fuel would pep mine right up. If I ever spray it I'll be running it. I don't want to advance the timing right now on cheap gas.
Your going to need to expirement next time at the strip.
After MPH Trap speeds that means HP gains.
A clean hard hookup should equate to high 11s.
Its going to get Summertime Hot Soon.
Pump gas and heat dont mix very well.
Maybe start off with water coolant temps staged at 120-140F.
End of run 160-200F.
An electric fan on a switch will help. Can mount in front of radiator and use as a pusher.
Plenty of room on 2nd gen birds with no AC Condenser.
I myself would use a 160 F T-stat or Use a Moroso water restrrictor plate. Red or Blue. 3/4 - 1.00 inch hole.
Water restrictor plate more reliable than any T-stat.
Accuracy in metered water flow guaranteed.
Probably 1.00 inch because your in Arizona.
If you leave the water restrictor plate in on the street monitor water temps and change oil often.
On street I myself have seen steady 140-180F water temps after 10 minutes run time and drive time.
What matters is matching water temps in each cylinder head , combustion chamber, & type of gasoline used.
What can be done dirt cheap for now.
I blew off all my dates with the serious people. There's to many bandaids holding the car together.

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 07, 2017, 11:26:11 AM
When you do the list thing they count on you to be there, not just once. I was a shoe in but I know they can't depend on me to be there.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 07, 2017, 01:12:00 PM
A guy can only do what he can today.
Everday is A New Day.
You will Race again 2017.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 07, 2017, 05:55:18 PM
Found a chunk missing out of my mini spool last night. Never ending. Shocked to find out it had a 1 year warranty. Had 10 days left on it.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 07, 2017, 06:08:41 PM
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/SpoonFed1/20170606_204511_zpshb3sluag.jpg)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 07, 2017, 07:09:15 PM
It held up Ok because a Mini Spool is not supposed to be used past 300 - 350 HP.
They used to recommend using a Mini Spool only Dirt Track Racing.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 14, 2017, 11:31:17 AM
First legit test with nothing more than water in the stock gas tank put it into the 12s but I was still pedaling it on motor.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 14, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
the next FREE move would be to let some air out of the air shocks and lower the tire pressure
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 14, 2017, 11:49:00 AM
on spray I'm sure I'll have to get a little more drastic but I haven't sprayed it yet.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 14, 2017, 12:14:01 PM
The ultimate plan of attack is mid 11s on motor so I don't have to cage it and spray of the streets. I really don't have any reason to be any quicker.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 14, 2017, 12:29:33 PM
Your playing with Fire.
Adding Gasoline 1 foot away smoking a Cigarette.

I know you do not have that Ford 9 inch yet Garry.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 14, 2017, 01:33:47 PM
Your playing with Fire.
Adding Gasoline 1 foot away smoking a Cigarette.

I know you do not have that Ford 9 inch yet Garry.

truth

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19149197_1351754198206109_1723554085826532401_n.jpg?oh=71a52095dd509f19da862b5df11ff427&oe=59E5DB2F)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on June 14, 2017, 01:49:26 PM
Your playing with Fire.
Adding Gasoline 1 foot away smoking a Cigarette.

I know you do not have that Ford 9 inch yet Garry.

truth

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19149197_1351754198206109_1723554085826532401_n.jpg?oh=71a52095dd509f19da862b5df11ff427&oe=59E5DB2F)
I haven't Checked lately But I am Pretty Sure Murder Nova is using a Mark Williams All Billet Aluminum Pro Mod Pro Stock Rear End Super 9.
$10,000.00
Only Better is Strange Engineering Top Fuel Drag Modular Rear Diff with a 1-piece straight through Titanium Axle Shaft Full Floater.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on June 15, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
Yeah once the house is paid off I can get serious. Should be able to do another 15 years standing on my head.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on August 03, 2017, 10:16:59 PM
Your playing with Fire.
Adding Gasoline 1 foot away smoking a Cigarette.

I know you do not have that Ford 9 inch yet Garry.
I don't have a rollover valve in my fuel cell either. I'll be getting that handled while I'm doing this fuel system upgrade. Fairly certain the old setup wasn't letting to motor reach it's full potential.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on August 04, 2017, 01:20:12 PM
Your playing with Fire.
Adding Gasoline 1 foot away smoking a Cigarette.

I know you do not have that Ford 9 inch yet Garry.
I don't have a rollover valve in my fuel cell either. I'll be getting that handled while I'm doing this fuel system upgrade. Fairly certain the old setup wasn't letting to motor reach it's full potential.
Yes. Ok Garry.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on August 05, 2017, 09:34:07 AM
Your playing with Fire.
Adding Gasoline 1 foot away smoking a Cigarette.

I know you do not have that Ford 9 inch yet Garry.
I don't have a rollover valve in my fuel cell either. I'll be getting that handled while I'm doing this fuel system upgrade. Fairly certain the old setup wasn't letting to motor reach it's full potential.
Yes. Ok Garry.
Enough already, I agree. The car's really just a hell raiser. I take it to the track because I'm limited on places to raise it out here in the desert.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on August 05, 2017, 09:49:50 AM
 8-)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: lonewolf1828 on October 22, 2017, 10:41:52 PM
Anything new garry?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on April 12, 2018, 11:20:39 AM
Anything new garry?

I pulled the Victor and spray off the car & put the factory hood back on. Right now I'm screwing around with a little bodywork.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: lonewolf1828 on April 27, 2018, 12:01:01 AM
Glad to see your still working on your bird.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on July 30, 2018, 08:57:12 PM
Calvert split monos a set of Caltracs & some 28.5 x 10.5-15 wrinkle walls. Gonna try to leave on a 200 shot.  :twisted:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38011855_711263312539969_5584418573926793216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7b7bf50808b7d7d05c5d00069dc668c4&oe=5BCE4992)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: 70RAIV455 on July 30, 2018, 09:17:37 PM
Calvert split monos a set of Caltracs & some 28.5 x 10.5-15 wrinkle walls. Gonna try to leave on a 200 shot.  :twisted:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38011855_711263312539969_5584418573926793216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7b7bf50808b7d7d05c5d00069dc668c4&oe=5BCE4992)
There You are Gary.

Have to do some Burnouts in Town and make sure it goes straight.
If not adjust preload left or right rear as needed on the Caltracs.

Try a Big Hit off the Line.
Torque converter will love it or not.
One way Only Find out.
Give it Hell.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on July 31, 2018, 10:38:17 AM
Converter has an anti-balloon plate so no fear there

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37985150_710085085991125_4319914982906003456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=206a0edc1914889574578c950b42adde&oe=5C048691)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on August 04, 2018, 01:18:00 PM
Temporary hood to clear the victor

 (https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38272621_715543292111971_8507197583255404544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=8118759126320e3733033e66fba0abd6&oe=5BD142CF)

ain't got to be pretty just don't like my carb in the open
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on August 21, 2018, 10:11:54 AM
I took it out for a couple test hits the other night & it's a whole new ball game. Should pull an 11.5 pass standing on it's head now. New 8 point cage on the way.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Vroom_vroom on August 21, 2018, 06:50:40 PM
garry when are you planning on heading back out? didnt realize you where local but making it a point to hit the track this fall. would love to see it run!
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on August 21, 2018, 10:32:18 PM
On 10-12-18 I should be in Vas Vegas for the midnight mayhem/top 10 grudge event
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on September 10, 2018, 11:01:20 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41324126_749407262058907_2217351487321800704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4038529c5c2ff15dc73c5ba911c62d4b&oe=5C1C44B9)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41335368_749407322058901_6505048851093651456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a884fd7082888e49c0c3d7553c86992b&oe=5C3AD7E0)

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41250533_749407348725565_4927338575353085952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=59ad32d0c92467b445a8088180f51dc5&oe=5C39F390)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on October 13, 2018, 01:41:08 PM
First pass of the night it pulled the front tires & ripped the driveshaft in half

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43951055_769816480017985_2852173848676139008_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&oh=ddcbce84e8c1a64ccd7cfb1f6053b6ca&oe=5C4253C9)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Aus78Formula on October 13, 2018, 08:24:54 PM
Whoops...do you have a driveshaft loop further up?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on October 14, 2018, 12:52:42 AM
Nope and it twisted right at the front yoke. I'll be installing one for sure when I put the new driveshaft in.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: chief poncho on October 26, 2018, 05:40:03 PM
You must be making some serious power now!  If it weren't for bad luck, you'd have none Garry.   Sorry to see that happen.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: pancho400cid on October 27, 2018, 08:56:41 AM
Dayum!!!!!!
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on October 27, 2018, 11:56:54 AM
I only had enough time for 1 pass and it needed to count so I hit it with a 150 shot. I think it would have dipped into the 10s on that pass.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: chief poncho on October 29, 2018, 09:39:26 AM
Although not as effective at reducing your 60' time, sometimes its best to hit the nitrous after the launch.   
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on October 29, 2018, 11:02:59 AM
I installed a bigger kit last night and kicked it up to a 175 shot. Any more than that I'd probably need a progressive controller or maybe turn it into a 2 stage kit.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: hdinch on November 05, 2018, 12:36:23 PM
 
   I read most of this thread...so it appears you went to Nitrous after your motor finally hit  12's?
   
    I'm still working on mine and getting little things worked out...our builds seems similar. 
  Rolling also with a 73 firebird 461 motor.  Specs..373 gear with strange axles and rear disc with read aluminum diff cover. Viking adjustable shocks,
  Kaufman heads, Holley 850 with DUI distributor.  Full exhaust with turbo 400 and a gear vendors unit-mostly for overdrive.  Solid roller cam 232\242 around 610 lift with 1.65's.  I also have caltracs that I just put on a few months back.  I ran using MT drag radials on 15inch rims. Only ran once in the 1/8 before caltracs ran the 1/4 a month ago with them.  I picked up my 60 foot from 1.79 to 1.62  approx..  The car ran 12.011 and 12.017.  Full weight car nothing removed.   I just took the trans out last weekend  to have it redone..it works fine but shifts like a Cadillac. Also since its out I am having the converter redone.  I  get one free redo from Ultimate Converters...so I will up that slightly.   

So that's the specs I am working with and the times I run.  Mine is just a part time track car...Mostly hit cars shows and drives...  However my goal is to get the car to 11.5 and be happy and done with it.
   
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on November 06, 2018, 03:55:56 PM
Once you get it down to mid 11s (and you will) you're talking easy mid 10s on spray. Nice looking car dude.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: hdinch on November 07, 2018, 07:40:59 AM
  Thanks, as for me I just dropped the trans and had it looked at yesterday...high band clutches were burnt.  So that's actually good news...now hopefully I can get some mph back and third gear will pick up at well as what I'm losing from shifts...when your trying to pick up a 1/2 second  everything counts.

I will not get back to the track until next spring but will se howi t goes...keep posting your updates..I will do the same.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on November 07, 2018, 10:09:19 AM
Sounds good. There's one more Midnight Mayhem coming up and the end of this month & hopefully I'll get a time slip this time.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on November 10, 2018, 02:10:57 AM
Some shots of when I installed the cage

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42697456_759917234341243_3220949885423452160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=3708748c82f3ead5fec107ecf0b0e16c&oe=5C3D6818)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42699637_761055910894042_1484701990146539520_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=a1559bac2c017c69c373bf43230a404f&oe=5C760496)

New nitrous solenoids

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46074263_786625295003770_4897425906252906496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=31b72cf3f5ffbbe5771e321cd8a0f01d&oe=5C3EC7C4)

New fuel pump

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45685734_786465945019705_3278172447672631296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=53c9f4e6acf1d0b8fdf175cbc879d577&oe=5C7104EC)

The last time it was at the track

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44782600_777407759258857_7929512305711120384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=4e1e69f605022c474a93c2c9e36f06d5&oe=5C704ED7)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: silvert/a on November 10, 2018, 08:57:10 AM
I love to see second gens on the track. They are just a classic body style.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on January 19, 2019, 11:40:27 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COCK67oDsqg
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on March 03, 2019, 04:02:08 AM
Another view of the same pass

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So8KI4aODPk
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on March 03, 2019, 04:14:39 AM
That was my best pass to date and I definitely needed the cage. I got booted for no fire jacket after that one.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on March 03, 2019, 04:24:08 AM
10.99 & quicker requires a fire jacket so it was a pretty drastic improvement.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: hdinch on March 06, 2019, 08:35:17 PM
Nice launch..what time did you end up running?  Spray out the gate?  Looked good out the gate hard to see on the big end.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on March 07, 2019, 01:46:13 AM
It was on a 175 shot all the way with no progressive. Time wise it did a 7.0 in the 8th and I was having problems with my shifter. I'm pretty sure the next pass would have been in the 6's.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on March 07, 2019, 11:51:15 PM
A 7.0 in the 8th is like a 10.98 in the quarter so we totally skipped the 11's. The next move would be a 250 shot and I'm guessing low 10's. I don't really expect much more out of the car than that. I figured mid 10's on spray when I built the motor.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: hdinch on March 09, 2019, 03:50:52 PM
Those are great numbers..I guess the drive train and read can handle all that?  Never used nitrous so I assume your setup is built for that or your going with just enough power that your car can handle.  Your half track look great..what did your mph end up being?
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on April 13, 2019, 02:31:24 AM
I had a minor issue the last time I had it at the track. Valve float, bent all 8 exhaust valves. 

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56922873_886753354990963_9140796299837177856_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=b67b6179e12073944d280d6e1a78c39f&oe=5D33A804)

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on April 15, 2019, 09:35:30 PM
New setup is on the money for a .650 lift solid roller

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57109977_888724314793867_8246258700612796416_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=0eaaa11b26de6f82e7915a3251dec19e&oe=5D439A95)
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on April 19, 2019, 11:23:52 PM
Specs on the new cam.

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 295/303
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 262/270
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .582/.582
LSA/ICL: 110/104
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): .020/.022
RPM Range: 3800-7200

I wanted to get more aggressive on the duration but it would have required more lift. With my 1.65 rockers I'm already at 640.
Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: Garry on April 26, 2019, 02:43:39 AM
Scrap that last cam. Comp Cams spec'd this one out for me today. I'm probably going to order it.

 (https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58379544_896619627337669_5496817403050328064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=bd0658bc09a95dbe757dfb386c19269a&oe=5D2BFB82)

Title: Re: Best pass to date was a disappointing 13.1
Post by: hdinch on May 30, 2019, 05:22:35 PM
Thats fairly radical...do you install that one?  If so how is the new setup?