TAC Tech => Mechanical => Topic started by: jk79ta on August 03, 2024, 09:46:46 AM
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So the time has come to replace my Patriot headers. Been looking at Doug's (seem to be the most popular) and Hedman. With the Patriot there is no backup lights and the oil filter is kind of a pain but I can deal with that. Ideally, the new headers would take up the same real estate as the old ones so I don't need to modify anything, such as relocating the oil filter or getting a mini starter. Some of the reviews I've read scare me. I would appreciate you guys experience and suggestions. There are so many part numbers available it can get a bit confusing. Also thought about the ram air manifolds, but sounds like even they can get in the way, and I heard they don't have the same sound as headers, which I do like.
Thanks,
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My only experience with headers goes back to my 1973 TA. It had an automatic. I don’t recall if they caused a problem with the steering/ shift lock out linkage or not. While the car seemed noticeably quicker with open headers, I could not tell any difference running through the exhaust system compared to the stock log style manifolds. I seem to recall sometimes the headers would drag on the ground pulling up driveways. Maybe the headers available today fit better and are made better.
On my 1980 TA I have been running Ram Air III manifolds, RA Restorations, having no problems with the trans linkage or dragging on the ground.
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Thanks. Do you think the sound is comparable to the headers? I really like the sound my headers have.
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Thanks. Do you think the sound is comparable to the headers? I really like the sound my headers have.
I would say no, but it's a trade off for less heat and less problems.
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Less heat and less problems is really a good trade off if your not trying to get the last bit of HP out of the engine. With a manual trans, I had to disconnect the lockout and do it manually by turning the collar
on the steering column. Have you considered shorty headers? You may be able to get the sound you like along with a nice exhaust system. There are several mufflers that can give you the sound your looking for.
If your car is lowered, perhaps a transverse muffler is something to consider to keep them from dragging too.
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Thanks guys. Less heat and problems is definitely a plus. For some reason I didn't think shorty headers were an option on our cars. Decisions, decisions!
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Thanks guys. Less heat and problems is definitely a plus. For some reason I didn't think shorty headers were an option on our cars. Decisions, decisions!
Shortys will also give you more bottom end, not like our cars need that lol. I would guess shorties are easier to change and get to?
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Thanks for the comments guys. Anybody on the forum have the ram air restorations manifolds? I'd be grateful for their input. Also, anybody comment on which headers if I were to go that route? Dougs vs Hedman. Which part number.
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Thanks for the comments guys. Anybody on the forum have the ram air restorations manifolds? I'd be grateful for their input.
My 1980 TA has Ram Air III, D port manifolds from Ram Air Restorations. They were purchased from Butler Performance in June of 2015 with an engine build. Butler part number is RAR-RM20S for 429.95, price has gone up in 9 years. I looked online at Butler's web site and they no longer sell Ram Air Restoration manifolds. Ram Air Restorations is still listing the manifolds, but after Covid there have been lots of reports of back orders and slow delivery. There are other sources for RA manifolds but depending on who you listen to they are not as well made RA Restorations. Ram Air Restoration brags their manifolds have larger machined ports and flow better than other brands. Years ago, I saw a dyno comparison test saying RA Research manifolds flow almost as good as long tube headers with similar horsepower numbers. But I think the test might have been made without an exhaust system.
Only you can decide what is right for you and your car. I personally don't like long tube headers on a street car and question how much power gain you get from them when running a through a full exhaust system. Maybe shorty headers would be a decent compromise. Better flow than log manifolds, a lot easier to install than long tube headers and a lot lighter than RA manifolds. But I am not sure what's available in the way of shorty headers. It would be nice if more members would comment on their real world experience with headers versus manifolds.
My RA manifolds when I received them were bare castings. I sent them back to RA Restorations and had them ceramic coated gray color inside and out. They claim they run cooler coated, i am not sure. The reason I had them coated is I did not want them to rust. You can see the outlets are about 1/4" larger than factor RA manifolds.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53911140496_a54bd8f6ed_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2q8WFQm)IMG_3946 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8WFQm) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Bare uncoated manifolds mounted on engine, before ceramic coating and no gaskets yet.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53911144191_bb182b37a2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2q8WGW4)IMG_3947 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8WGW4) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
Picture taken today about four years later, no rust but instead of gray color they look kind of brown, still no rust though. The RA manifolds are big and heavy, changing engine mounts with these manifolds installed is a real pain, almost impossible.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53911392648_e9cfb2049e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2q8XYMN)IMG_3948 (https://flic.kr/p/2q8XYMN) by Lawrence Alexander (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188552644@N06/), on Flickr
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Those do look nice. Do you have any issues with the oil filter or starter? If you did need to remove them, do you think it could be done from the top?
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Those do look nice. Do you have any issues with the oil filter or starter? If you did need to remove them, do you think it could be done from the top?
My starter is a hi torque mini, I have not attempted to remove it, but have no doubt I could easily without removing the exhaust manifold. Replacing the oil filter was not a problem. Keep in mind second Gen Firebirds were available with RA III engines and manifolds in 1970. 455 HO engines with RA manifolds in 1971 and 1972. Super Duty cars in 1973 and 1974 also had large RA style manifolds.
If you do decide to buy the manifolds from RA Restorations I would recommend also purchasing their flanges and hardware.
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Those do look nice. Do you have any issues with the oil filter or starter? If you did need to remove them, do you think it could be done from the top?
I have no issues with either and really don't see any reason to remove them otehr than if I were swapping them out for some reason
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Thanks guys. Good info. Just need to make a decision now.
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I've got the RA's on my 78. No issue with R & R of starter or oil filter. You may have an issue getting a couple of the manifold bolts on driver side & may need to put
them into the manifold prior to dropping it in. I didn't have to lift the motor, so they really are "drop in". As far as sound, nothing beats an open header... However, the women in my
life voted for a quieter ride. I have a full dual exhaust with Super Turbos (no cats) and it sounds a lot like an early 70's car. Healthy, but not deafening. Someday I hope to
put in some cutouts. lol